Infrastructure Costs

[DuneDog]

Can anyone give me a range for the costs involved with putting in infrastructure to a small development? (basic asphalt street, curbs, storm drainage, water, sewer, utilities, etc.) I have heard prices from $200 to $400 per linear foot. I would appreciate if anyone could share their experiences with this phase of a development project.

[Smiling JOe]

Can anyone give me a range for the costs involved with putting in infrastructure to a small development? (basic asphalt street, curbs, storm drainage, water, sewer, utilities, etc.) I have heard prices from $200 to $400 per linear foot. I would appreciate if anyone could share their experiences with this phase of a development project.
Your prices are in the correct range for the basics road with ribbon curbing, sewer, water, electric.

[DuneDog]

Your prices are in the correct range for the basics road with ribbon curbing, sewer, water, electric.

Thanks, I am considering a project and was running some numbers.

[Uncle Timmy]

I looked back on some numbers I had calculated in July '04 for a small development and came up with around $307/LF.

That cost included: surveys, engineering fees, clearing, water, sewer, phone, cable, and roads.

Here are a few breakdowns from that number:

Cost to run sewer - $13/LF, plus add $1,100 per manhole
Cost to run water - $8.5/LF, plus add $2,150 per hydrant
Cost for Chelco to run power - $815 per lot
Cost of asphalt road with concrete edging -$6.56/SF

That did not include:

Water/Sewer Impact Fees - at around $6,400 per lot.
Landscaping -required by the county

Good luck, and please don't cut down all the trees!

[DuneDog]

I looked back on some numbers I had calculated in July '04 for a small development and came up with around $307/LF.

That cost included: surveys, engineering fees, clearing, water, sewer, phone, cable, and roads.

Here are a few breakdowns from that number:

Cost to run sewer - $13/LF, plus add $1,100 per manhole
Cost to run water - $8.5/LF, plus add $2,150 per hydrant
Cost for Chelco to run power - $815 per lot
Cost of asphalt road with concrete edging -$6.56/SF

That did not include:

Water/Sewer Impact Fees - at around $6,400 per lot.
Landscaping -required by the county

Good luck, and please don't cut down all the trees!

Thanks for the info. I guess prices would be a bit higher today but your numbers also include some of the cost I wasnt adding in.

BTW I wouldn't dream of cutting too many trees... thats where the value is.

[DuneDog]

I looked back on some numbers I had calculated in July '04 for a small development and came up with around $307/LF.

That cost included: surveys, engineering fees, clearing, water, sewer, phone, cable, and roads.

Here are a few breakdowns from that number:

Cost to run sewer - $13/LF, plus add $1,100 per manhole
Cost to run water - $8.5/LF, plus add $2,150 per hydrant
Cost for Chelco to run power - $815 per lot
Cost of asphalt road with concrete edging -$6.56/SF

That did not include:

Water/Sewer Impact Fees - at around $6,400 per lot.
Landscaping -required by the county

Good luck, and please don't cut down all the trees!

How are impact fees determined? Is that the same as a tap fee and are they paid at the time the lot is developed or when the home is built?

[Miss Kitty]

Thanks for the info. I guess prices would be a bit higher today but your numbers also include some of the cost I wasnt adding in.

BTW I wouldn't dream of cutting too many trees... thats where the value is.

You are a good citizen and I applaud you. :clap_1:

[Uncle Timmy]

How are impact fees determined? Is that the same as a tap fee and are they paid at the time the lot is developed or when the home is built?

Yes they are tap fees, and for things like fire -just a general impact fee. They are a standard $ amount per lot. For a development, the county requires that these fees be paid when the developer submits for a Development Order.

[OKon30a]

Actual cost will vary depending on the contractor- it pays to to get several bid's as there may be substantial differences in the amount that is paid. I am personally working on completing 4 subdivisions at this time and we typically break those numbers down into "per lot" cost. As a builder/ developer I can tell you fluctuations in those cost are very real. Material cost have increased dramatically over the last year and factors related to labor have increased. The "busy" factor can add dollars as well.

You can expect to pay "lock and key" (includes sewer taps- $7800-) in a range from $35k-55k per lot. Beware of lower bids as "change orders" will increase overall cost significantly- the same way some builder's operate. Hope that helps.

[Smiling JOe]

...

You can expect to pay "lock and key" (includes sewer taps- $7800-) in a range from $35k-55k per lot. Beware of lower bids as "change orders" will increase overall cost significantly- the same way some builder's operate. Hope that helps.
Much of that variation on price per lot can occur based on nothing more than density, but OK is dead on regarding what developers look at. What is my cost vs. what can I sell it for.

[DuneDog]

Much of that variation on price per lot can occur based on nothing more than density, but OK is dead on regarding what developers look at. What is my cost vs. what can I sell it for.

Thanks OK and Smiling Joe for some very useful information. I've also been down that road with "change orders" on some commercial projects before but I've never had the opportunity to do a residential deal.

Do the tap fees change with the wind or are they based on some type of formula related to density?

[DuneDog]

You can expect to pay "lock and key" (includes sewer taps- $7800-) in a range from $35k-55k per lot. Beware of lower bids as "change orders" will increase overall cost significantly- the same way some builder's operate. Hope that helps.

Do you think the 35k-55k/lot is just hard costs or is it everything - interim interest during development included?

[OKon30a]

Dune, Water and sewer tap fees don't vary w project or density- they just go up! 35-55k per lot is hard cost for development only. I hav'nt ran soft numbers but a million bucks cost about 7g per month give or take at current interest rates. Pretty quick figuring there-the great unknown is getting your project approved in Walton county in how long. I'm almost ready for DO's on 3 project's that were submitted between Sept-Dec of 04- factor in your local engineer for some of that slowness. I could go on but I don't want to get whiney. My better loan packages include soft an hard cost factors for a 12-18 month time frame. I have some good "end user" property available if you know someone looking.

[Smiling JOe]

Again, OK brings up some good points. DuneDog, as a developer/future developer, I am sure that you are aware that the County has halted all large scale amendments until Aug '06 at the minimum. Even then, only the projects already on the list will be considered for review. For Small Scale Amendments, SoWal is allowed only 80 acres per year of changes. It is my understanding that the lottery has been drawn for 2006 and the list has been compiled, so no more of those until 2007.

If you have not already met with Pat Blackshear, I suggest setting up a meeting with her to discuss some general development questions you may have. Of course, she is not going to rattle off costs, fees, etc. like OK and TWT have done. ;-)

[DuneDog]

Again, OK brings up some good points. DuneDog, as a developer/future developer, I am sure that you are aware that the County has halted all large scale amendments until Aug '06 at the minimum. Even then, only the projects already on the list will be considered for review. For Small Scale Amendments, SoWal is allowed only 80 acres per year of changes. It is my understanding that the lottery has been drawn for 2006 and the list has been compiled, so no more of those until 2007.

If you have not already met with Pat Blackshear, I suggest setting up a meeting with her to discuss some general development questions you may have. Of course, she is not going to rattle off costs, fees, etc. like OK and TWT have done. ;-)

SJ, I have met with her and after that meeting I'm not sure if Large Scale ammendments will occur until 2007 or even worse possibly early 2008. Apparantly the county could submit the applications but the State wont approve anything until the E.A.R (some kind of evaluation report for the county comprehensive plan) is filed and approved in Tallahassee. It could take a long time. On the upside maybe the market will recover by that time?

From what I have learned I dont think Small Scale ammendments will be impacted. I've heard some additional information about Small Scale may be released on or about the 15th of this month.

With regard to OK, TWT and others, I have been doing some homework but the information I have received in just the last few days being on and browzing this site is amazing and helpful.

[Smiling JOe]

SJ, I have met with her and after that meeting I'm not sure if Large Scale ammendments will occur until 2007 or even worse possibly early 2008. Apparantly the county could submit the applications but the State wont approve anything until the E.A.R (some kind of evaluation report for the county comprehensive plan) is filed and approved in Tallahassee. It could take a long time. On the upside maybe the market will recover by that time?

From what I have learned I dont think Small Scale ammendments will be impacted. I've heard some additional information about Small Scale may be released on or about the 15th of this month.

With regard to OK, TWT and others, I have been doing some homework but the information I have received in just the last few days being on and browzing this site is amazing and helpful.

I think you are on target with new large scale amendments not coming up until 2008, other than those already on the list.

Small Scale is not likely to change from the 80 acres per year total for SoWal, but there has been a little talk about lowering the acres for the definition of "small scale" to less than ten acres.

You can definitely find useful information on SoWal.com of a different type than the County can give. There are many people who post on this board, who are involved in many aspects of development, and I am not refering to only buyers and sellers.

[OKon30a]

Dune- glad you are getting some help here. There are a couple of things I would like to add . First in regard to small or large scale ammendments they do not apply to any projects I get involved in. The reason is that I only purchase property that is already zoned for a higher density i.e. (NPA Infill 8 per acre and VMU 12 units per acre) You will pay the big bucks for that property but developers will bypass zoning changes if at all possible. One considerable financial impact is the 5% of appraised amount you will pay to record your final milar plat. It is based on current year certified tax rolls. A fee I just paid on Grayton Cove s/d (still trying figure out who Fat Cat is?), probably someone affiliated with the out of town group I'm selling the S/d to.
Anyway- the fee based on 04' assessment was $7500.00. When we went to record the plat our fee was 65000.00. This is supposed to go to a recreational fund for Walton County- After several calls I found out it is sitting in the County commissioners account for that district- Scott Brannon.
I will be meeting to discuss that further with Scott. He and Meadows have about a million in their respectable accounts. Have you noticed how much could be done with our 331 causeway- landscaping, seawalls, rip rap and how about a boat ramp thats safe to launch in. Those pavillions at bay field have been there since I was a kid- it's a joke. Anyway Scott said the DEP was the holdup- seriously I personally have better timing with the DEP related permitting issues than I do Walton County planning dept.

I will be meeting with Pat B in the next few day on an A zone issue. Outside that topic my question will be when will her dept. be able to- in some unscientific manner give developers a reasonable timetable for obtaining Development Order's.

[DuneDog]

OK, That recording fee could be a nasty little oversight to the proforma. :blink: If the subdivision is new, how do they come up with an appraised value? Is the appraisal per lot or the whole S/D.

[OKon30a]

It was reappraised as the same parcels in previous year's- prior to my platting of the s/d lots. Had we recorded 2 months sooner (before the new certified valuation's) we would have saved about 57k. The interesting thing is originally that "5%" was supposed to be a preservation percentage of the developed property set aside for recreation - that was converted to a buyout fee. Yet to get a project through we must maintain at least 20% preservation if not more. We strive to preserve more than county requirement's ask for.

If we must pay these fee's I just want to see our community benefit. If the money is used for something else then we ought to know.