Affordable, long-term housing idea.

[Uncle Timmy]

This is an idea I've been looking into, and one which I believe could help with our lack of affordable, long-term rental housing here in south Walton.

Let's push to ammend the Walton County Land Development Code to allow for the long-term rental of 'Accessory Apartments' (ie.- garage apartments or carriage houses).

The code currently allows for the construction of accessory apartments but these can only be used by family members. Section 6.02.01 (B) of the LDC states "The accessory apartment shall not be available for commercial short-term or long-term rental to any person who is not a family member of the owner of the property."

My understanding is that the state of California has been pushing its municipalities to loosen restrictions on accessory apartments recently as a low-cost, no sprawl solution to similar housing issues we face here.

We have many of these structures in south Walton, and this solution could open up many small, affordable rental units, probably in areas close to where these people work.

For the homeowner, the income could help subsidize the mortgage or our (rising) taxes. For an out-of-town homeowner, it could be a real advantage to have someone on site in the garage apartment keeping an eye on things or even helping prepare the house for storms when the homeowner can't get here in time.

I'm looking for some feedback from the community. Anyone else think this is a good idea?

I'd like to get some of our regional organizations, like the South Walton Community Council involved, if anyone has any contacts with these groups?

[TooFarTampa]

Sounds like a VERY practical solution. I love those!! :clap_1:

What rental house owner would not want a long-term renter looking out after the property? I imagine many full-time residents would not want a renter, but it seems like the majority of housing in SoWal is second homes anyway. Great idea, and it might relieve a bit of the current problems. :clap_1: :cool:

[SHELLY]

It's a good idea in theory, but I think it will hit a brick wall in areas with HOA covenants--especially in the areas with a high percentage of "well to do" who don't see the added income as an incentive to favor such a change. Insurance liability can be a bit more tricky as well, resulting in higher [if that's possible!] insurance premiums.

From the sound of the original post, it seems the proposal would be for a "house sitter" willing to pay rent as opposed to someone to work bagging groceries at the local Publix and using the property as a private residence. If the rental comes with "strings attached" (i.e., house maintenance, security, etc.) in return for a break on the rent, finding renters, collecting monthly rents and ensuring the "contracted work" is completed will be difficult at best.

The idea certainly has merit--but on a a very, very small scale; I don't think it will provide the relief the community desperately needs.

[Uncle Timmy]

It's a good idea in theory, but I think it will hit a brick wall in areas with HOA covenants--especially in the areas with a high percentage of "well to do" who don't see the added income as an incentive to favor such a change. Insurance liability can be a bit more tricky as well, resulting in higher [if that's possible!] insurance premiums.

Good input. I am interested in finding out what the HOA in communities like Watercolor and Rosemary have to say on this subject. Both places have a very high number of accessory apartments and both communities already allow short-term rentals, so I am curious as to what their position on long-term rentals of this nature is. Maybe someone here who owns in either place can help answer that.

My own neighborhood in Blue Mountain doesn't have any restrictions regarding rentals, so there are some communities where this would be permissable.

[Smiling JOe]

Good input. I am interested in finding out what the HOA in communities like Watercolor and Rosemary have to say on this subject. Both places have a very high number of accessory apartments and both communities already allow short-term rentals, so I am curious as to what their position on long-term rentals of this nature is. Maybe someone here who owns in either place can help answer that.

My own neighborhood in Blue Mountain doesn't have any restrictions regarding rentals, so there are some communities where this would be permissable.

Do you think if allowed to build these, the homeowners would rent them out short term for more money, thereby not solving the problem of long term affordable rentals?

This area definitely needs something along those lines, and good for you trying to find the answer. I know a fifteen year old down here that works seven days per week at a local restaurant to help his mom pay rent and expenses for his family. He has a younger sibling and his mom is a single mom working too. I am very proud of his willingness to help out his family.

[Rita]

Do you think if allowed to build these, the homeowners would rent them out short term for more money, thereby not solving the problem of long term affordable rentals? .......

HOAs could restrict the rentals of such to 3 months or longer, not allowing short-term rental of these units. I know 3 months is short-term to some, but something along that line could fit college students' summer schedules. Many college students would love a summer job at a beach resort area.

Are Watercolor, Watersound, and other places mentioned experiencing the need right now for service jobs? I would assume they are and thus would be willing to look into ideas like this for their own benefit.

Sometimes all it takes is someone willing to spearhead an idea and see if it is feasible. I like that twt512 is trying to work to alleviate a growing problem in the area, instead of just pointing it out as a problem.

[Miss Kitty]

If I remember correctly, in WC you cannot rent out the "accessory building" separately from the main house.

[Rita]

If I remember correctly, in WC you cannot rent out the "accessory building" separately from the main house.

But covenants can be amended if there is a need and/or interest, right?
:idontno:

[Uncle Timmy]

Do you think if allowed to build these, the homeowners would rent them out short term for more money, thereby not solving the problem of long term affordable rentals?

For the "Resort Communities" that is possible. However I did talk to friends who had a carriage house rental in Rosemary, and they felt that for the handful of times they rented it during the season, minus the cost of cleaning and management fees etc. -they would probably have done as well with a steady, long term rental. I have no idea how valid this is overall.

Plus, the carriage houses are pretty small, I don't think they are as desirable to vacationers who are coming down with family/friends.

Since I'm only speculating on some of the economics, I can probably best address your point with some personal thoughts:

On my own property I have a planned art studio/apartment which I want to build within the next few years. It could also serve as an apartment for an elderly parent one day if the need arises. In the mean time, I would love to give a young person a chance to get a foothold in this community the way I did when I moved here. That and the added bonus of having someone 'on site' to look after things when I go away on vacations, etc. more than outweighs the potential additional income from short-term vacationers.

[SHELLY]

This area definitely needs something along those lines, and good for you trying to find the answer. I know a fifteen year old down here that works seven days per week at a local restaurant to help his mom pay rent and expenses for his family. He has a younger sibling and his mom is a single mom working too. I am very proud of his willingness to help out his family.

My heart goes out to that young man and his mom...I hope he and his fellow service workers in the area realize what scarce and valuable assets they are to the area and CHARGE FOR THEIR SERVICES ACCORDINGLY!

"Supply and demand" have sent area property values to the moon...maybe it's time for area service workers take a page from the Realtors' playbooks.

[ladybug8876]

I know it would benefit me. If all goes well I'm planning to move down to Sowal in August and a garage apartment or something in that genre would be great. I'm glad you brought this up because I had know idea about these property laws. It's good info to know for when I start seriously looking for a place to live.

[florida girl]

We call them servants quarters. If you look around at the jobs available, most are low wage. The Tom Thumb is probably the best wage with benefits. Affordable housing delema? Provide better jobs with better salaries that compete with the national standard. Got plenty of construction, housekeeper, restaurant worker, resort worker positions, bring in something else that provides a better way of life to be able to afford the "low income housing"!

[SHELLY]

We call them servants quarters. If you look around at the jobs available, most are low wage. The Tom Thumb is probably the best wage with benefits. Affordable housing delema? Provide better jobs with better salaries that compete with the national standard. Got plenty of construction, housekeeper, restaurant worker, resort worker positions, bring in something else that provides a better way of life to be able to afford the "low income housing"!

"Better jobs and better salaries" are NEVER going to happen in the 30A/SoWal corridor. There are the "Serviced" and and "Servers" with a very small population of upper to middle class of go-betweens (real estate, business owners, etc.). Don't hold your breath waiting for Boeing to open a plant on 30A...think more Tom Thumbs.

Then again....there's this:
"The firm calls its arrow-carriers "human directionals" and uses mostly college students, who earn $10 to $12 an hour. "We pay them well, especially compared to McDonald's," he said."
Selling Condos in South Florida (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-ssign26jan31,0,7231218.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines)

[Uncle Timmy]

We call them servants quarters. If you look around at the jobs available, most are low wage. The Tom Thumb is probably the best wage with benefits. Affordable housing delema? Provide better jobs with better salaries that compete with the national standard. Got plenty of construction, housekeeper, restaurant worker, resort worker positions, bring in something else that provides a better way of life to be able to afford the "low income housing"!

I moved to south Walton shortly after graduating college and lived in a modest "servants quarter" for a few years. In that time I put down roots and was able to establish myself here.

I strongly believe in working to make this, or any community, a better place to live. Please have more respect for those who are willing to offer practical solutions to problems.

[Paula]

I definitely support affordable housing.

Even though it's very limited in the area, for some of the jobs (e.g., waiters and waitresses), I think creative young adults who want to work here will figure out how to do it. If young people/students are looking for summer work in particular, there are places that several students could share while earning an income (especially if they work in restaurants where people leave reasonable tips -- we always tip 20% unless the server is really ornery or ignores us which is rare), even in the summer when rates are high. Many young people share apartments, so if they have to do that in SoWal, there's no need to feel bad about that (I shared an apartment as a young adult, as did many of my friends). Many rentals don't rent to people under 25, but I know there are some places in Panama City Beach West that are reasonable, nice, and could be shared by 2-3, even 4 people at an affordable rate, even in the summer. It would be good for the people who own the rental, good for the young people sharing, good for the businesses, and good for the people who come to SoWal. With all the construction, there's going to be no shortage of rentals, at least not in the short term or medium term.

I think it will be hardest for young families where there may be only one breadwinner. Even then, some will figure it out.

[SHELLY]

I moved to south Walton shortly after graduating college and lived in a modest "servants quarter" for a few years. In that time I put down roots and was able to establish myself here.

I strongly believe in working to make this, or any community, a better place to live. Please have more respect for those who are willing to offer practical solutions to problems.

I've actually tried addressing this issue more times than the law allows over the past couple years...but I've hit a brick wall at every turn. Over the last 3 years it's become increasing more difficult to be heard above the din of the 'many' (not all) developers rushing to make BIG money--REAL quick and "get out of Dodge" (environment, citizens and infrastructure be damned!)

You'd be absolutely right if you sensed that this is a hot-button issue for me--I am more than a bit jaded on this subject. But the same comments can and should be directed to the "powers that be" and the developers who love them.

If I may ask: What year did you arrive in South Walton, what was your pay and what percentage of your wages went to paying for your "servant's quarters?" Over the last couple of years housing costs in the area have sky-rocketed, whereas wages have stagnated (when adjusted for inflation).

As for having groups of young teens and 20-somethings sharing condos at PCB, Destin and SoWal? Somehow I think that would be a stretch--since the majority of available units switched hands in the last two years and the new owners "invested" the likes of $300,000 and up for 720sf studios.

Over-development (not to mention the hurricanes), in the panhandle in the last two years, has turned our economy on its ear. The "powers that be" believe the best thing to do is to make money while they can and pass the problems on to whomever wins the next election. It's not easy to fix a freight train in motion--looks like we have to wait until it jumps the tracks.

In the meantime, the area young people who are willing and able to work (and have living arrangement available) should request...nay...DEMAND...higher wages for their services in the South Walton or Destin area.

[Uncle Timmy]

I've actually tried addressing this issue more times than the law allows over the past couple years...but I've hit a brick wall at every turn. Over the last 3 years it's become increasing more difficult to be heard above the din of the 'many' (not all) developers rushing to make BIG money--REAL quick and "get out of Dodge" (environment, citizens and infrastructure be damned!)

You'd be absolutely right if you sensed that this is a hot-button issue for me--I am more than a bit jaded on this subject. But the same comments can and should be directed to the "powers that be" and the developers who love them.

Over-development (not to mention the hurricanes), in the panhandle in the last two years, has turned our economy on its ear. The "powers that be" believe the best thing to do is to make money while they can and pass the problems on to whomever wins the next election. It's not easy to fix a freight train in motion--looks like we have to wait until it jumps the tracks.

No Shelly, you haven't 'addressed' the issue- you've whinned about it ad nauseum. Beyond admonishing the 'powers that be' (none of which appear to be on this message board) and cheering excitedly for the "oncoming train wreck" (which I guess will prove the brilliance of your insights) I have yet to hear of any practical solutions. And yes now you've found my hot-button issue: talk is cheap.

Now, does anyone have any comments regarding the proposal to change the county regulations on accessory apartements? Would anyone oppose this idea if it went before the county commissioners? Comments on THIS SUBJECT would be appreciated.

[Smiling JOe]

TWT, I am all for it, and in fact, have thought about building one on my property. I could not afford to build it and make money on it by renting it, but I believe the affordable rent could make it a break even proposition while helping another person, and adding a little excitement to my life. I am readying to build a new home in the near future, but will probably hold off on the Carriage House for maybe another year. If money were not an issue, I would do build it today.

Truly, having a long term renter's "servants quarters" could be handy for those who needed a cleaning person, ie- servant, to clean between guests and owners' visits in exchange for rent. You could also have this person maintain a garden on the property, or stock your groceries for the arrival, check in renters to the main house, etc. Why people would rather pay more to a rental management company than having a reliable tenant take care of things is beyond me.

[Chickpea]

No Shelly, you haven't 'addressed' the issue- you've whinned about it ad nauseum. Beyond admonishing the 'powers that be' (none of which appear to be on this message board) and cheering excitedly for the "oncoming train wreck" (which I guess will prove the brilliance of your insights) I have yet to hear of any practical solutions. And yes now you've found my hot-button issue: talk is cheap.

Now, does anyone have any comments regarding the proposal to change the county regulations on accessory apartements? Would anyone oppose this idea if it went before the county commissioners? Comments on THIS SUBJECT would be appreciated.

If I may pipe in too I think this is an excellent idea and you are to be commended on thinking of a solution that has merit and possibly a good chance at passing at the County if the interest is perceived as real and immediate (which IMO it is). I actually do not know what is required to overturn such a regulation. Is it a majority of votes?

[Amp22]

TWT I think it as good idea and I will write my commish about it. I'll bet though that apt.s south of 98 will become short term rentals if people can get away with it. Maybe an incentive for long term rentals is what we need.

[Allifunn]

I know it would benefit me. If all goes well I'm planning to move down to Sowal in August and a garage apartment or something in that genre would be great. I'm glad you brought this up because I had know idea about these property laws. It's good info to know for when I start seriously looking for a place to live.
I am with you ladybug..I hope to head down there this time next year to possibly relocate, and my biggest concern is a place to live! I own my own home here...but could not possibly own one there. I will follow this with interest, and hopefully something will be accomplished within the next year

[SHELLY]

No Shelly, you haven't 'addressed' the issue- you've whinned about it ad nauseum. Beyond admonishing the 'powers that be' (none of which appear to be on this message board) and cheering excitedly for the "oncoming train wreck" (which I guess will prove the brilliance of your insights) I have yet to hear of any practical solutions. And yes now you've found my hot-button issue: talk is cheap.

Now, does anyone have any comments regarding the proposal to change the county regulations on accessory apartements? Would anyone oppose this idea if it went before the county commissioners? Comments on THIS SUBJECT would be appreciated.


A Place to Start (http://www.1000friendsofflorida.org/)

I will definately make it a point to attend any county meeting that addresses your proposal and step up and say YES! LET'S DO IT! But only if it would be passed with strict guidelines to allow long-term, low-cost housing and prohibit the proposal from being exploited for additional seasonal profit (which would be extremely tempting and difficult to enforce).

[TooFarTampa]

TWT I for one think it is a great idea, and if it got on the commission's agenda, I would be happy to write a letter to my commissioner.

In fact you have set me to thinking. We have a standard-sized lot in Seagrove that we would love to build on in the next three to five years. The depth of the lot (135) is certainly enough to warrant a carriage house, plus pool plus main house, and the way the lot is sited we might even be able to get gulf views from the second floor of the carriage house. We could start building sooner rather than later if we got the full plans drawn up, then did a carriage house first, that we could use for ourselves for awhile. When we were ready to build we could rent the carriage house long term and have at the very least someone looking out for the property. I don't like it. I LOVE it!

What defines a long-term rental anyway? Three months? Six?

[Uncle Timmy]

Thanks for all the feedback. Good to know there is general support for the idea.

I'm drafting a letter to Walton County Planning and Zoning, and plan to contact some of our local organizations asking for their support.

If anyone has experience dealing with the county on such issues I would greatly appreciate some guidance on how to go about proposing an ammendment to the LDC as this is new territory for me.

The comments have been very helpful, such as the need to specify that such rentals would only be allowed for long term rental. If anyone else has any other points that should be addressed in this proposal, let me know.

I'll keep everyone here posted on developments; I suspect that at some point I will need to ask for folks to e-mail our commissioners expressing support for the proposal.

[beachmouse]

There have been a couple articles in the paper about the Plantation at Freeport development near Freeport high school. Same developer as Kelly Plantation, and right now the developer is saying he's aiming for a mix of housing and incomes as they build including apartment and more modest single family housing options.

He could be blowing smoke, but right now at least he's saying all the right things, and he seems perfectly comfortable with the idea that the project is big enough that it's going to take at least 20 years to build out, so it doesn't seem like the same sell & flip while the going is good crowd.

[Rita]

Thanks for all the feedback. Good to know there is general support for the idea.

I'm drafting a letter to Walton County Planning and Zoning, and plan to contact some of our local organizations asking for their support.

If anyone has experience dealing with the county on such issues I would greatly appreciate some guidance on how to go about proposing an ammendment to the LDC as this is new territory for me.

The comments have been very helpful, such as the need to specify that such rentals would only be allowed for long term rental. If anyone else has any other points that should be addressed in this proposal, let me know.

I'll keep everyone here posted on developments; I suspect that at some point I will need to ask for folks to e-mail our commissioners expressing support for the proposal.

You likely know already, but in case not, contact our fellow poster Donna. She's a whiz at this stuff, is connected, and diplomatic.
Thank you so much for spearheading this!

[Amp22]

Thanks for all the feedback. Good to know there is general support for the idea.

I'm drafting a letter to Walton County Planning and Zoning, and plan to contact some of our local organizations asking for their support.

If anyone has experience dealing with the county on such issues I would greatly appreciate some guidance on how to go about proposing an ammendment to the LDC as this is new territory for me.

The comments have been very helpful, such as the need to specify that such rentals would only be allowed for long term rental. If anyone else has any other points that should be addressed in this proposal, let me know.

I'll keep everyone here posted on developments; I suspect that at some point I will need to ask for folks to e-mail our commissioners expressing support for the proposal.

The SWCC has done a lot of work on AH - I'm sure someone there can help.

www.southwaltoncc.org (http://www.southwaltoncc.org)

Chances are you know someone on the board:
http://www.southwaltoncc.org/contact.htm

[SHELLY]

What defines a long-term rental anyway? Three months? Six?

At LEAST 3 months--but preferably a one-year lease if one is really serious about licking the area's "affordable housing" problem (and by affordable, that would be in the range of the take-home pay of area employers like teachers, cops, lifeguards, waiters and cashiers).

The county would also have to keep up with these type of arrangements to ensure someone doesn't use the "long-term rental" ploy as a means of getting out of paying bed tax.

Expect some opposition from areas with HOA with protective covenants in place; especially those who have a higher than average percentage of full-time residents. Also get up-to-speed on the "Fair Housing Act" and the affect it can have on a landlord's ability to pick-and-choose their renters.

Just some things to think about while going forward.

I wish you the best of luck--keep us informed.

[skippertoo]

[QUOTE=TooFarTampa]TWT I for one think it is a great idea, and if it got on the commission's agenda, I would be happy to write a letter to my commissioner.

In fact you have set me to thinking. We have a standard-sized lot in Seagrove that we would love to build on in the next three to five years. The depth of the lot (135) is certainly enough to warrant a carriage house, plus pool plus main house, and the way the lot is sited we might even be able to get gulf views from the second floor of the carriage house. We could start building sooner rather than later if we got the full plans drawn up, then did a carriage house first, that we could use for ourselves for awhile. When we were ready to build we could rent the carriage house long term and have at the very least someone looking out for the property. I don't like it. I LOVE it!

We would do the exact same thing.

[ladybug8876]

TWT, I am all for it, and in fact, have thought about building one on my property. I could not afford to build it and make money on it by renting it, but I believe the affordable rent could make it a break even proposition while helping another person, and adding a little excitement to my life. I am readying to build a new home in the near future, but will probably hold off on the Carriage House for maybe another year. If money were not an issue, I would do build it today.

Truly, having a long term renter's "servants quarters" could be handy for those who needed a cleaning person, ie- servant, to clean between guests and owners' visits in exchange for rent. You could also have this person maintain a garden on the property, or stock your groceries for the arrival, check in renters to the main house, etc. Why people would rather pay more to a rental management company than having a reliable tenant take care of things is beyond me.

As someone wanting to relocate I would love to do something like this. Even maybe add a babysitting service for guests/owners, the advantages are endless. To have the chance to live and work in Sowal in would be a wonderful opportunity. I wish everyone luck who is trying to get this approved.

[Smiling JOe]

As someone wanting to relocate I would love to do something like this. Even maybe add a babysitting service for guests/owners, the advantages are endless. To have the chance to live and work in Sowal in would be a wonderful opportunity. I wish everyone luck who is trying to get this approved.What I want to do is to create three living quarters above studio space and have artists live up and create below. Of course I would have to comply with housing regulations, but I would like to have people submit examples of their work and maybe a biography. I would probably limit them to one year stay so that several artists have a chance to do this. Although my property is not zoned as business, I think it would be funn to have a small shop for them to sell their works, maybe even directly from their studio. Ideally, I would like to have artist working in different mediums, eg- sculpture, painting, carving, etc. I have not thought completely through it, but I have thought of maybe having a large common living area and kitchen, with 3 larger sized bedrooms with private baths, somewhat like a suite in a dorm room. I would also have 2-3 private outdoor spaces/decks or porches, so that people can have a little privacy. Still just a concept which I think I could keep simple and somewhat affordable.

[Smiling JOe]

for much more indepth affordable housing info, go to www.floridahousing.org
The site is down, as I type, but check back if it is not working when you try. Unfortunately, most entry level homes in this area do not qualify buyers for assisted down payments (which are reinbursed to the Gov't when the owner sells). I forgot the limit on the max home price allowed, but it is less than $275K which you will have to pay in SoWal and much of Freeport.