View Full Version : High rise condos coming to SoWal
I've heard that the new county commissioners are pro-development, and they will abolish the 50-foot height limit in SoWal. Supposedly there are over 2 dozen projects already drawn up that are waiting to be approved once the code is changed.
Anyone think this will happen or if it's a good idea?
Smiling JOe
03-23-2005, 07:20 AM
I've heard that the new county commissioners are pro-development, and they will abolish the 50-foot height limit in SoWal. Supposedly there are over 2 dozen projects already drawn up that are waiting to be approved once the code is changed.
Anyone think this will happen or if it's a good idea?
Bad Idea, and who knows if it will happen.
Just_In_Thyme
03-23-2005, 07:25 AM
I'm seliing and moving on as soon as that happens.
I'm seliing and moving on as soon as that happens.
To a place that has fewer property rights?
Smiling JOe
03-23-2005, 07:32 AM
I guess we could always pull an Edward Abbey if they started building them.
(Edward Abbey is a crazy author, who wrote fabulous tales against the evils of development and the cancerous growth of "civilization.")
I guess we could always pull an Edward Abbey if they started building them.
(Edward Abbey is a crazy author, who wrote fabulous tales against the evils of development and the cancerous growth of "civilization.")
So we could write fabulous tales? :idontno:
Smiling JOe
03-23-2005, 07:37 AM
So we could write fabulous tales? :idontno:
live fabulous tales
Is there a height limit on the North shore of the bay?
chrisv
03-23-2005, 08:13 AM
I believe the limit is 4 stories. There are also density limits, no more than 4 units per acre if both city water and sewer are available. Right now where I am, we have water but are on septic, so the density is only 3/acre, but Freeport will be bringing sewer to the north end of the bridge within 2 years. I think that any high-rise thoughts for the north side of the bay would be way off in the future.
I believe the limit is 4 stories. There are also density limits, no more than 4 units per acre if both city water and sewer are available. Right now where I am, we have water but are on septic, so the density is only 3/acre, but Freeport will be bringing sewer to the north end of the bridge within 2 years. I think that any high-rise thoughts for the north side of the bay would be way off in the future.
I bet you would be surprised.
Camp Creek Kid
03-23-2005, 08:44 AM
It won't happen. The County Commissioners aren't idiots. 30-A will always be protected because our beauty comes from the fact that we don't have high rises. What MAY happen is more high rises in Mirimar Beach where they already exist. Perhaps that is what you are referring to. The last high rise in S. Walton to be approved has not yet been built, but it will be in Seascape.
Smiling JOe
03-23-2005, 08:45 AM
I believe the limit is 4 stories. There are also density limits, no more than 4 units per acre if both city water and sewer are available. Right now where I am, we have water but are on septic, so the density is only 3/acre, but Freeport will be bringing sewer to the north end of the bridge within 2 years. I think that any high-rise thoughts for the north side of the bay would be way off in the future.
There are many people in local gov't who are postioned to make a killing if the height restrictions are lifted. Current building heights in north walton are 50' or 4 stories, which ever comes first.
Chris V is is partly accurate. Density in Freeport varies. Inside the city limits, R3 zoning allows densities up to 8 units per acre. R1 Zoning is max of 4 units per acre. However, some commercial zoning allows 16 units per acre for townhomes. Typically, when County water and septic are at the property, the greatest density is supposed to be 1 unit per 1/2 acre, not 3 units per acre. However, variances occur often due to lack of gov't control and regulation.
If you look at Blue Water Bay in Niceville, it is easy to see the same or greater potential for major development in the way of condos on the north side of the Bay. I know the Chairperson on the Planning Committee, and a couple of County Commissioners, whose names I will not mention, would love to see the major changes.
Freeport is poised to become a major town over the next 8-10 years, and we will see condos popping up. They may not be high rises, but they will be built.
Camp Creek Kid
03-23-2005, 08:57 AM
Also, high rises are starting to be planned for the ghetto. Not Panama City Beach, but Panama City itself. There is a development order for a project in Panama City just as you get to the other side of Hathaway Bridge. It is where the old Toyota dealership is. I can't figure out the attraction--it is waterfront, but you're right next to the pier and all the industrial shipping. You've got a very busy road on the other side and not much of natural beauty anywhere. However, it is going through. Whatever.
High rises are a big topic in Panama City. There is quite a bit of redevelopment potential on the Bay in Bay County.
SoWalSally
03-23-2005, 02:59 PM
Unfortunatley these days, he with the most money to pay soulless lawyers wins. I wouldn't be surprised to see the county get sued over height limits if they get pressed. And we all know that the county likes to bend over. Maybe Seaside, Rosemary, and such would fight to keep the limits because they;ve already sold their land. But St. Joe and others might like to build high rises.
RiverOtter
03-23-2005, 03:49 PM
Unfortunatley these days, he with the most money to pay soulless lawyers wins. I wouldn't be surprised to see the county get sued over height limits if they get pressed. And we all know that the county likes to bend over. Maybe Seaside, Rosemary, and such would fight to keep the limits because they;ve already sold their land. But St. Joe and others might like to build high rises.
Golden Rule <= He who has the gold makes the rules => :(
beachmouse
03-23-2005, 05:19 PM
I want to say Bluewater proper maxed out at about 4 stories over by the marina, and single family is something like 80% of the housing stock there. Then they let that apartment building go in by White-Wilson that was like 5-6 stories, and North Bay Fire got stuck buying a new ladder truck to handle the extra height. I just love my property taxes going toward someone else's new development. Grumble. I think overall the density in BWB is something like 2-3 housing units per acre if you go by the all land within Herden's original purchase boundaries including the golf course, wetlands, and rec areas.
But then Bluewater was largely developed during a time when people wouldn't put up with the 50x90 foot lots that are so common here today.
I want to say Bluewater proper maxed out at about 4 stories over by the marina, and single family is something like 80% of the housing stock there. Then they let that apartment building go in by White-Wilson that was like 5-6 stories, and North Bay Fire got stuck buying a new ladder truck to handle the extra height. I just love my property taxes going toward someone else's new development. Grumble. I think overall the density in BWB is something like 2-3 housing units per acre if you go by the all land within Herden's original purchase boundaries including the golf course, wetlands, and rec areas.
But then Bluewater was largely developed during a time when people wouldn't put up with the 50x90 foot lots that are so common here today.
Isn't Blue Water Bay and Ft. Walton, and some other areas limited in height because of Eglin AFB?
Smiling JOe
03-23-2005, 07:23 PM
Maybe Seaside, Rosemary, and such would fight to keep the limits because they;ve already sold their land.
Rosemary Beach received a variance in Feb '05 regarding height limitations, allowing them to exceed the height limitations and build "Clock Tower" attached to a residential building. They stated that the clock tower was for the benefit of the "public."
Smiling JOe
03-23-2005, 07:30 PM
Isn't Blue Water Bay and Ft. Walton, and some other areas limited in height because of Eglin AFB?
Eglin controls much of what happens regarding heights of buildings. If you look at a map, you will see that Eglin owns most property in this area, north of Hwy 20 and West of Hwy 331, all the way to DeFuniak Springs. Another consideration by local Freeport Govt is that they do not have the means to fight fires greater than 4 stories. I don't know that building height in Freeport will play a major role in the next few years. There is plenty of land to develop into low rise condos around the water. Currently, sewer and water are standing in the way, but those two items will quickly be checked off the list.
Camp Creek Kid
03-23-2005, 07:50 PM
The clock tower at Rosemary will be on a commerical building, not a residential building.
Smiling JOe
03-23-2005, 07:56 PM
The clock tower at Rosemary will be on a commerical building, not a residential building.
Oops, my mistake if it is true. Regardless, Rosemary Beach's variance is just another example of finding ways to bend the rules.
Camp Creek Kid
03-23-2005, 08:01 PM
It is true, I try not to gossip :D . It is going on the hotel. I don't have a problem with something like a clock tower or a church steeple. It will probably get struck by lightning anyway! It is nice to have a little variety in architecture.
beachmouse
03-23-2005, 11:12 PM
The Eglin limit that's most visible is a 7 story limit on Okaloosa Island. Drive down Santa Rosa Blvd, and almost all the buildings on the Gulf side are exactly at the Eglin height cap in a nice even line.
There was talk with the proposed Turnberry development of something like a 36 story luxury tower near Destin Commons mall. But Legendary ended up pulling the project after Eglin complained it would interfere with radar testing. Legendary's a local comapny, and you just don't try to go against the DoD in a county where 60% of the local economy ties back into the bases, especially when there's a BRAC round on the horizon. Without Eglin's R&D programs and the white collar jobs they bring to the area, Ft. Walton Beach would be as much of a dump as Panama City.
It's funny to watch these days how the environmentalists and slow growth proponents have learned not only how to partner with the bases on conservation efforts, but to play the base encroachment card against the developers in some cases.
lenzoe
03-24-2005, 09:09 AM
It won't happen. The County Commissioners aren't idiots. 30-A will always be protected because our beauty comes from the fact that we don't have high rises.
If the commissioners were just representing 30-A, I'd agree, but there is a lot of land and population in North Walton whose interests may not align with those along 30-A.
Didn't there used to be two commissioners that lived on 30-A, and now there's only one commisioner from 30-A after the latest election? So it would seem more of the decisions would be driven by northern interests.
It also would seem you've also got a situation where a large revenue stream generated by South Walton is being allocated by interests from North Walton. Sounds like taxation without representation -- which we all know led to the Boston Tea Party. So maybe y'all ought to have your own Chochtawhatchee Bay Tea Party.
beachmouse
03-24-2005, 12:08 PM
Relations between south and north Walton are actually better than they used to be a couple years back when DeFuniak seemed bound and determined to use South Walton as a property tax cash cow. It got to the point where there was a movement to split the county into two with South Walton County being anything south of Choctaw Bay/Freeport and Walton County being everything north of that to the Bama line.
IIRC, there was enough talk to move part of the discussion to Tallahassee, but nothing was ever introduced in the legislature, and commission boundaries were redrawn to reflect that more people living south of I-10, which seemed to quiet down the grumbling.
lenzoe
03-24-2005, 01:09 PM
That's interesting. I hadn't heard that bit of political history. During the last election there was an article in the Walton Sun about the source of money behind different Commissioners, and it seemed significant development money was behind ousting the two of the then 30-A reps and replacing them with others. I see on the "county commissioner site" as it's now named that four out of five commissioners live north of the bay.
lenzoe
03-24-2005, 01:18 PM
I see on the "county commissioner site" as it's now named that four out of five commissioners live north of the bay.
And as a footnote, I think this is an excellent reason for Kurt to run for County Commissioner next election cycle.
And as a footnote, I think this is an excellent reason for Kurt to run for County Commissioner next election cycle.
I'd rather have certain parts of my anatomy get caught in a garbage disposal. :shock:
Camp Creek Kid
03-24-2005, 03:22 PM
One of the ousted County Commissioners committed political suicide because of an issue with the school board. There was a petty tiff about a piece of property that the school board had an easement on. This commissioner chose to take the issue public, which affected Butler Elementary School and the buses. This same commissioner is also involved with developing property, so I don't think it was the "developers lobby" that ousted him.
Our current commissioner from 30-A, Cindy Meadows, is probably the most anti-development commissioner we have. She won handily in South Walton. Scott Brannon won largely from the Freeport vote. There was a whole other issue in Freeport about the other ousted county commissioner and some property. He tried to close the local swimming hole to locals who had used it for years. The good ole boys didn't take too kindly to that. Scott Brannon is a developer, but there are a whole lot of developers arounds here.
beachmouse
03-24-2005, 07:41 PM
I'd almost forgotten about the bus easement incident. Still can't figure what he hoped to gain from that all. It's not like the school board was actually going to land swap with him for anything valuable.
SoWalSally
03-24-2005, 09:22 PM
Tim Pauls is a horses patoot. 2 weeks after he got elected he started complaining about the job and said he would never run for re-election. Who knows why he did. EGO EGO EGO maybe :roll: .
He won election by telling the Peach Creek Alliance how great they were and that he would fight for them. Two years of lip service by him and fighting by the citizens to prevent heavy industry on Peach Creek. It came down to a vote and TP conveniently left on vacation.
He wasn't man enough to not run, instead he sabatoged his own campaign by picking on kids.
Smiling JOe
03-24-2005, 09:41 PM
I'd almost forgotten about the bus easement incident. Still can't figure what he hoped to gain from that all. It's not like the school board was actually going to land swap with him for anything valuable.
Tim and I have something in common. I just purchased a piece of land, and guess who decided to pave a road on it last year? That's right, the blank, blank County. Apparently, they don't survey the property prior to paving. Go figure. I wont be shutting down the school buses, nor will I be running in a public election if I decide to baricade my property. However, I do understand Tim's frustration.
lenzoe
03-25-2005, 12:07 PM
I'd rather have certain parts of my anatomy get caught in a garbage disposal.
Good, it's settled then. Kurt's my write-in candidate. And after you win we could sell Hollywood on a TV series. We could call it "The Commish: SWE" (South Walton Edition) with plots taken from Kurt's real-life daily struggles to be the best South Walton commisioner ever. And every show would end with Kurt saying "I'd rather have parts of my anatomy caught in a garbage disposal."
RiverOtter
03-25-2005, 01:41 PM
Good, it's settled then. Kurt's my write-in candidate. And after you win we could sell Hollywood on a TV series. We could call it "The Commish: SWE" (South Walton Edition) with plots taken from Kurt's real-life daily struggles to be the best South Walton commisioner ever. And every show would end with Kurt saying "I'd rather have parts of my anatomy caught in a garbage disposal."
Wonder if he'd still have time for the boards :biggrin: Probably doing :bang: most of the time :biggrin:
Hey Lenzoe! What happend to Blinky (3 eyed fish :idontno: )
lenzoe
03-25-2005, 01:58 PM
Hey Lenzoe! What happend to Blinky (3 eyed fish)
Blinky's been temporarily benched. I'm still searching for my true "permanent" icon/avatar, but I reserve the right to bring him back when I'm feeling in a particularly mutant-like mode. I really like your's.
RiverOtter
03-25-2005, 02:05 PM
Blinky's been temporarily benched. I'm still searching for my true "permanent" icon/avatar, but I reserve the right to bring him back when I'm feeling in a particularly mutant-like mode. I really like your's.
Thanks, but not my choice. My original avi drew the ire of some very vocal, nasty (but rarely posting) board members. So Kurt found me a new one that wouldn't cause so many problems. :idontno: I like the little guy though :biggrin:
lenzoe
04-23-2005, 02:56 PM
I guess we could always pull an Edward Abbey if they started building them.
(Edward Abbey is a crazy author, who wrote fabulous tales against the evils of development and the cancerous growth of "civilization.")
I enjoyed "The Monkey Wrench Gang."
There's a Florida author by the name of Carl Hiasson, who wrote at least one children's book along a similar theme with a Florida setting. The book was Hoot. Just got done reading it to the kids the other night.
At least Hoot had a happier outlook for the protagonists than Abbey's book.
lenzoe
04-23-2005, 02:59 PM
I've heard that the new county commissioners are pro-development, and they will abolish the 50-foot height limit in SoWal. Supposedly there are over 2 dozen projects already drawn up that are waiting to be approved once the code is changed.
Anyone think this will happen or if it's a good idea?
Where did you hear this, and is there any truth behind it? This would be a huge change to the comprehensive plan. I can't imagine any current property owners would be for this.
Smiling JOe
04-23-2005, 03:18 PM
... I can't imagine any current property owners would be for this.
Oh, I can think of a few.
lenzoe
04-23-2005, 03:26 PM
Oh, I can think of a few.
I guess I should have said small-scale owners that don't want to see their property devalued by the high-rise condo going in next door to them.
Course the owner of the tract of land large enough to do the high-rise on might have a differing view.
Smiling JOe
04-23-2005, 03:35 PM
I guess I should have said small-scale owners that don't want to see their property devalued by the high-rise condo going in next door to them.
You are right in that most people around here would raise stink. However, regarding the "devaluing" of smaller pieces of property, I think the opposite would happen. I think people would eventually sell out in "group" packages to the developers for outrageous amounts of money. More units can be sold by going up.
(If I hear any truth of the rumor of lifting the height restrictions, you will see a photo of me, in the newspapers, raising H_LL on the Court House steps.)
lenzoe
04-23-2005, 03:41 PM
However, regarding the "devaluing" of smaller pieces of property, I think the opposite would happen.
Really? That seems counter-intuitive to me. Do you think, comparing apples-to-apples properties, that Destin has higher values than SoWal? I figured they'd be lower largely due to the density issue. Last time I tried to compare, that's they way it seemed to me. But it's hard to get a real feel for it just comparing MLS listings.
Smiling JOe
04-23-2005, 03:54 PM
You certainly make a valid point, which is difficult to argue, but I think the surrounding smaller parcels would also be bought and combined into larger projects. Developers will have to pay top dollar to buy these smaller pieces, but I think you will find them willing and able. South Walton would look like Manhattan from a distant view -- Tall buildings surrounding the State Forest (Central Park). If this ever happend, maybe we could have all tourists park in Freeport and create a bus system, or scooter and bicycle exchange to help keep the traffic down.
You are right in that most people around here would raise stink. However, regarding the "devaluing" of smaller pieces of property, I think the opposite would happen. I think people would eventually sell out in "group" packages to the developers for outrageous amounts of money. More units can be sold by going up.
(If I hear any truth of the rumor of lifting the height restrictions, you will see a photo of me, in the newspapers, raising H_LL on the Court House steps.)
:clap_1: :clap_1:
Smiling JOe
04-26-2005, 10:00 PM
Early this morning, I received late notice, that at today's 8:00am Board of County Commissioners' meeting they would have discussion of restricting the height limit on buildings north of the Bay. I had to leave the meeting early, and did not get to hear the discussion or discission of one was made. Anyone happen to know?
It was news for me to learn that Walton County's height restriction on buildings applied only to property in Walton County south of Hwy 98. I know Eglin AFB has problems with high rises, especially north of the Bay. Some time ago, I remember a person on the Freeport Planning Board telling me that the City of Freeport also has a problem with high rises due to not having firetrucks that could handle extinguishing fires from buildings with heights greater than 50ft. I am sure we will read about the meeting in Carol's article in the Walton Sun on Saturday, but if you know, I would like to hear. I will get a copy of the minutes, but it generally takes a week or so for the County to record them.
I believe the height limit was extended from 98 to the South shore of the bay a couple of years ago.
Smiling JOe
04-27-2005, 07:50 AM
I believe the height limit was extended from 98 to the South shore of the bay a couple of years ago.
That would make sense because the area that was up for discussion was north of the Bay.
seagrovechick
04-30-2005, 10:39 AM
The 30A corridor has experienced an amazing rise in value due to the lack of high rises, in my opinion. While it is getting more crowded each year, it is still calm in comparison to other beach resort areas. Allowing high rises is definitely a bad idea as it will serve to dillute the unique beach village feel that has been created in the area and thus slow the value growth in real estate.
lenzoe
04-30-2005, 10:48 AM
The 30A corridor has experienced an amazing rise in value due to the lack of high rises, in my opinion. While it is getting more crowded each year, it is still calm in comparison to other beach resort areas. Allowing high rises is definitely a bad idea as it will serve to dillute the unique beach village feel that has been created in the area and thus slow the value growth in real estate.
That's what I'm saying! Increased density is comparable to dilution in stock ownership. The fact that it isn't wall-to-wall people on the beaches (yet) is a feature and a quality that needs to be preserved or everyone looses.
RiverOtter
04-30-2005, 11:36 AM
That's what I'm saying! Increased density is comparable to dilution in stock ownership. The fact that it isn't wall-to-wall people on the beaches (yet) is a feature and a quality that needs to be preserved or everyone looses.
Agreed, Looks like the PCB pre-construct's are coming down in price. There looks to be hundreds for resale right now.
bsmart
08-20-2005, 12:44 AM
I saw some renderings of a Flatiron building on the DPZ webpage, that will be built at Alys Beach for office and retail units. As it looks, it may be pushing the limits of the height restriction.
~Brian.
Smiling JOe
08-20-2005, 12:47 AM
I saw some renderings of a Flatiron building on the DPZ webpage, that will be built at Alys Beach for office and retail units. As it looks, it may be pushing the limits of the height restriction.
~Brian.
I think it is Alys Beach who has already received permission from the County to exceed the 50ft height limit for the Clock Tower, which the County says is a public benefit. The Clock Tower will be connected to a building, perhaps the one to which you refer.
Moondance
08-20-2005, 03:01 AM
I think it is Alys Beach who has already received permission from the County to exceed the 50ft height limit for the Clock Tower, which the County says is a public benefit. The Clock Tower will be connected to a building, perhaps the one to which you refer.
Is the "public benefit" being able to more conveniently keep track of time (which, obviously, I can't do), or a cell tower site, perhaps?? ;-)
phdphay
08-20-2005, 07:58 AM
I think it is Alys Beach who has already received permission from the County to exceed the 50ft height limit for the Clock Tower, which the County says is a public benefit. The Clock Tower will be connected to a building, perhaps the one to which you refer.
NO WAY! How do we fight *that*?
Smiling JOe
08-20-2005, 08:38 AM
NO WAY! How do we fight *that*?
I don't think you can. It was a done deal sometime around the beginning of the year. I forgot the actual height, which varies depending on the basis used to measure, but I think it will be around 50'+/-. There were only a handful of us opposed to it at the County Meeting in which it was addressed.
Camp Creek Kid
08-20-2005, 09:27 AM
I think it is Alys Beach who has already received permission from the County to exceed the 50ft height limit for the Clock Tower, which the County says is a public benefit. The Clock Tower will be connected to a building, perhaps the one to which you refer.
No, it was the "Inn at Rosemary Beach" that received the variance. Construction for that building is well underway and the tower is in place. It looks to be a very nice building and the height is not intrusive at all.
Smiling JOe
08-20-2005, 09:33 AM
Thank you for the correction, CCK. Keeping up with all of these projects can be confusing sometimes.
Santiago
09-06-2005, 11:19 AM
You are dead on about height limits having a positive effect on property values as well as quality of life. I have lived in SoWal since 96 and in my former profession talked to large numbers of people investing in the area. Almost all were of the opinion that the height limit was critical to them. If we sense that this relaxing of the height limit is something that could actually gain any momentum, we should begin the process of incorporation immediately. That is the only way that we can control our destiny. My .02 worth.
By the way, I make my living from real estate development.
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