Sanctuary at Redfish

[Unplugged]

Is anyone on the board familiar with this project? Thoughts/ comments?

[Smiling JOe]

Is anyone on the board familiar with this project? Thoughts/ comments?Yes, what do you want to know?

[kurt]

It has topped out and is a massive building on Big Redfish Lake lake.

http://www.exquisitedevelopment.com/projects/sanctuaryatredfish/index.asp

[Unplugged]

Yes, what do you want to know?

I have friends/ clients possibly interested in a unit and I was looking for general feedback/ thoughts or comments regarding this project as an investment vehicle...

[Smiling JOe]

I have friends/ clients possibly interested in a unit and I was looking for general feedback/ thoughts or comments regarding this project as an investment vehicle...Personally, I think it is pricey, but the views will be tremendous. Sitting off the beach, it is fairly protected. Only time will tell if it is a good buy. You may pick up a unit at a reduced price when they go to contract, because most people were speculating with this project. They would be happy to get their money back. Just my .02. If I were looking for a condo in which to spend my retirement, this, or those at WaterSound, may be it.

[Chickpea]

Can someone please tell me what the price points are? Thanks

[Unplugged]

Can someone please tell me what the price points are? Thanks

The project has sold out, but there are 7 re-sale units listed - prices range from $1.2MM - $1.775MM. Do we have many REALTORS® on the msg board?

[Bob]

Is anyone on the board familiar with this project? Thoughts/ comments?I would like to know where Exquisite took all the white sand they removed for underground parking at their adjacent project, Sanctuary by the Sea. They clear cut a huge swath from 30a to the dunes. Seagrove/Blue Mt. could have used it all.

[Smiling JOe]

I would like to know where Exquisite took all the white sand they removed for underground parking at their adjacent project, Sanctuary by the Sea. They clear cut a huge swath from 30a to the dunes. Seagrove/Blue Mt. could have used it all.

http://sowal.com/bb/gallery/files/2/1/6/PB150002.JPG
Taken from Big Redfish Lake in front of the project in Nov.

[Unplugged]

The Certificate of Occupancy was issued yesterday.

Original preconstruction contract holders begin to close next week.

There are 21 units listed for re-sale: $899K to $2.4MM
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[SHELLY]

The Certificate of Occupancy was issued yesterday.

Original preconstruction contract holders begin to close next week.

There are 21 units listed for re-sale: $899K to $2.4MM
________________________________________________

I guess that's music to the ears of your friends and clients who were looking to get in last year--they've certainly got a nice selection to choose from now.

[Unplugged]

I guess that's music to the ears of your friends and clients who were looking to get in last year--they've certainly got a nice selection to choose from now.They do indeed SHELLY. It's :shock: 'ing how motivated some of the sellers are.......

Thanks for posting and keep 'em coming, we are learning a lot from your point of view.

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[Pirate]

What were the original pre construction prices anyone know?

[Unplugged]

What were the original pre construction prices anyone know?The 1,778 Sq. Ft. units were $925K...

Personally, I think it is pricey, but the views will be tremendous. Sitting off the beach, it is fairly protected. Only time will tell if it is a good buy. You may pick up a unit at a reduced price when they go to contract, because most people were speculating with this project. They would be happy to get their money back. Just my .02. If I were looking for a condo in which to spend my retirement, this, or those at WaterSound, may be it.SJ: you certainly called it right on this one! ;-)
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[sherry]

The 1,778 Sq. Ft. units were $925K...

SJ: you certainly called it right on this one! ;-)
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I agree with everything you are saying. I have had the opportunity to tour Redfish throughout the construction phases, and have been very pleased with what I have seen and how it has come together. It really does seem to be a different type of development than most others. I think long term it will be a great investment. While I am sorry to see original buyers in the positions some of them are with their closings rapidly approaching, I think some one put it so well by saying...this definitely gives others who had hoped to get in and couldn't another shot. I have a couple of clients that are investors that are definitely willing to break even on where they bought in almost 2 years ago, and some are even willing to take a loss. Great opportunity for others to snatch up!
I have details on amenities, upgrades in the units, floor plans, etc if any one wants any of that.

[Unplugged]

I agree with everything you are saying. I have had the opportunity to tour Redfish throughout the construction phases, and have been very pleased with what I have seen and how it has come together. It really does seem to be a different type of development than most others. I think long term it will be a great investment. While I am sorry to see original buyers in the positions some of them are with their closings rapidly approaching, I think some one put it so well by saying...this definitely gives others who had hoped to get in and couldn't another shot. I have a couple of clients that are investors that are definitely willing to break even on where they bought in almost 2 years ago, and some are even willing to take a loss. Great opportunity for others to snatch up!
I have details on amenities, upgrades in the units, floor plans, etc if any one wants any of that.Well said - my biggest concern would be the distance to beach access :(
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[Miss Kitty]

Well said - my biggest concern would be the distance to beach access :(
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Just how do you get to the beach here?

[sherry]

Well said - my biggest concern would be the distance to beach access :(
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I know what you mean. The lake is gorgeous, but does provide a bit of a barrier to the sand!! They have put a floating dock in the lake for owners to use kayaks/canoes to go across to the beach if they choose. I have heard (don't hold me to this yet) that as long as your boat motor is less than 5hp you can use that in the Lake as well. The other accesss would be the boardwalk that runs down the East side of the Sanctuary by the Sea (the other development) I would say you would probably park at the Preserve Clubhouse area and walk across. Not sure if it would be appropriate to park a golf cart by the acess.

[CHACHING]

but I would say you would probably park at the Preserve Clubhouse area and walk across. Not sure if it would be appropriate to park a golf cart by the acess.

Sherry, has this parking at the PRESERVE CLUBHOUSE BEEN APPROVED by the Preserve?

[sherry]

Sherry, has this parking at the PRESERVE CLUBHOUSE BEEN APPROVED by the Preserve?

Not that I am aware of.

[Unplugged]

First photos (http://picasaweb.google.com/beachpartners/SanctuaryAtRedfishGraytonBeach?authkey=Ibyigqm_qrw q-tHvMYaCj_PGWcA) of the completed project.
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[sherry]

These photos are great! :clap_1: That place looks better every time I see it! I cannot imagine from an investment perspective that this place will not be of interest for future buyers or a great rental property as well. I think with some of the initial buyers being ready to sell at some pretty aggressive prices, that the equity is apparent based on other developments in the area that have already sold at higher prices. Thanks for sharing these great picutures!

[Unplugged]

These photos are great! :clap_1: That place looks better every time I see it! I cannot imagine from an investment perspective that this place will not be of interest for future buyers or a great rental property as well. I think with some of the initial buyers being ready to sell at some pretty aggressive prices, that the equity is apparent based on other developments in the area that have already sold at higher prices. Thanks for sharing these great picutures!You are quite welcome, I'm glad you enjoyed them sherry :blush:

Please keep us posted on how your clients do with their investment.

This will be one to watch...
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[Smiling JOe]

These photos are great! :clap_1: That place looks better every time I see it! I cannot imagine from an investment perspective that this place will not be of interest for future buyers or a great rental property as well. I think with some of the initial buyers being ready to sell at some pretty aggressive prices, that the equity is apparent based on other developments in the area that have already sold at higher prices. Thanks for sharing these great picutures!

I question that because many of those sold at the peak, and are those prices do not hold true, today. Example - I bought a lot a couple of years ago at 160K and now I see recent sales near $120K. Even with 20% down on my original purchase, where is my equity? The answer is that my equity is on the other side of the number zero, right? That not withstanding, The Santuary at Redfish will make very nice units and I do think there are some attractively priced units for people looking to own long term.

[SHELLY]

These photos are great! :clap_1: That place looks better every time I see it! I cannot imagine from an investment perspective that this place will not be of interest for future buyers or a great rental property as well. I think with some of the initial buyers being ready to sell at some pretty aggressive prices, that the equity is apparent based on other developments in the area that have already sold at higher prices. Thanks for sharing these great picutures!

What's not to say that the folks who purchased those properties in other developments overpaid too? That doesn't quite add up to "instant equity."

[sherry]

With the market being as slow as it has been over the last several months, I think you are right. That is probably not a completely accurate term to describe as "instant equity". What my thoughts are when I say that is that the project, to me, is such a unique development with some pretty cool amenities. The quality of it, coupled with the fact that it is sitting on so much property and feels somewhat secluded and serene rather than crammed all over each other makes me perceive more value in it as well. I was comparing being able to get into some of these units for the price that the original buyers bought into almost 2 years ago, and compare that with the prices for some of the other upscale, newer developments on the South side of 30-A. Most of them are still on average asking somewhere in the $800+ per square foot range. Of course, there are exceptions, but to an end user the quality and amenities at the current prices available would seem to be of value. Is that value still inflated...only time will tell! :idontno:

[SHELLY]

With the market being as slow as it has been over the last several months, I think you are right. That is probably not a completely accurate term to describe as "instant equity". What my thoughts are when I say that is that the project, to me, is such a unique development with some pretty cool amenities. The quality of it, coupled with the fact that it is sitting on so much property and feels somewhat secluded and serene rather than crammed all over each other makes me perceive more value in it as well. I was comparing being able to get into some of these units for the price that the original buyers bought into almost 2 years ago, and compare that with the prices for some of the other upscale, newer developments on the South side of 30-A. Most of them are still on average asking somewhere in the $800+ per square foot range. Of course, there are exceptions, but to an end user the quality and amenities at the current prices available would seem to be of value. Is that value still inflated...only time will tell! :idontno:

No doubt this development is nice...IMO selling the product based on its quality and location will go off better with end-users (similar to some terms you've used in your post) than using the "it's a great investment!" plug. That's soooo 2005--and whose time has passed.

[sherry]

Just wanted to let anyone that is still interested in this project know that many of the units have closed now...I have not heard of appraisals being a problem for the owners.

Also, we talked about beach access earlier. Apparently, the developer has provided a pontoon boat for owners at the dock. I guess the owners can decide if they want to hire someone to drive it back and forth for everyone or what...but definitely a nicer alternative for beach access than taking quite a stroll to the boardwalk. :biggrin:

[Smiling JOe]

Just wanted to let anyone that is still interested in this project know that many of the units have closed now...I have not heard of appraisals being a problem for the owners.

Also, we talked about beach access earlier. Apparently, the developer has provided a pontoon boat for owners at the dock. I guess the owners can decide if they want to hire someone to drive it back and forth for everyone or what...but definitely a nicer alternative for beach access than taking quite a stroll to the boardwalk. :biggrin:

I have seen the pontoon boat, but there is just something that doesn't strike me right about the name "Sanctuary at Redfish" and "Pontoon Boat." :confused: :idontno:

[SHELLY]

Also, we talked about beach access earlier. Apparently, the developer has provided a pontoon boat for owners at the dock. I guess the owners can decide if they want to hire someone to drive it back and forth for everyone or what...

I think the development needs to polish up the sales pitch for this "amenity" --maybe hiring a retired Disney's Jungle Cruise guide with a pith helmet and cap pistol; or maybe a Bogart look-alike ala the "Jungle Queen."

[Smiling JOe]

http://www.sowal.com/bb/gallery/files/2/1/6/P9280020sm.jpg

Maybe they can build some steps to access their connection to the beach (aka- pontoon boat):idontno:

[Pirate]

I think the development needs to polish up the sales pitch for this "amenity" --maybe hiring a retired Disney's Jungle Cruise guide with a pith helmet and cap pistol; or maybe a Bogart look-alike ala the "Jungle Queen."

Jungle cruise guide:floor:

[Smiling JOe]

Jungle cruise guide:floor: Maybe they need monkey bars to climb aboard the jungle cruise.

[goodwitch58]

:confused: Since when have pontoon boats been allowed on coastal dune lakes?

[sherry]

They could call it Redfish Jungle Queen and have a giant hippo try to attack the boat as people cross on their way to the beach :floor:

Not sure a "pontoon" boat is necessarily the classiest style of boat, but I guess it can get more people on it, and I think as long as the motor is less than 5hp you can use it in the lake?? I'm not positive about that, but would imagine they had to get that particular boat approved before they could put it in the lake for use. I think owners are allowed to also have kayaks and that type of thing at the dock as well to get to the beach. So I guess the jungle boat can distract and shoot at the hippos while you safely navigate across in your kayak :lol:

[Smiling JOe]

They could call it Redfish Jungle Queen and have a giant hippo try to attack the boat as people cross on their way to the beach :floor:

Not sure a "pontoon" boat is necessarily the classiest style of boat, but I guess it can get more people on it, and I think as long as the motor is less than 5hp you can use it in the lake?? I'm not positive about that, but would imagine they had to get that particular boat approved before they could put it in the lake for use. I think owners are allowed to also have kayaks and that type of thing at the dock as well to get to the beach. So I guess the jungle boat can distract and shoot at the hippos while you safely navigate across in your kayak :lol:

:floor::floor::floor:. Maybe Mr. CBA can chime in on this one, but I don't know that there is a restriction on the type of boats which can be used on the coastal dune lakes. I know of at least one pontoon boat being used on Eastern Lake, and I have seen people skiing behind a boat on Western Lake. Maybe they, too, are in violation, but I don't think so. I know there has been discussion regarding the size and types of motors which could be used on the Lakes, but I don't know that a rule has been set. Even if there was, the same people who allow seawalls to be built on public property, thereby increasing the amount of their personal property, will probably be the people in charge of monitoring it.

[Unplugged]

The Certificate of Occupancy was issued yesterday (8/17).

Original preconstruction contract holders begin to close next week.

________________________________________________
Update: approx 1 fourth of the 64 units have closed so far... :blink:
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[Pirate]

Update: approx 1 fourth of the 64 units have closed so far... :blink:
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64 units and 1 Jungle Cruise ferry. That will be interesting.

:scratch: I still think it looks like a retirement home.

[sherry]

Here I go with my pretty predictable opinion about the project ;-) I think the reason that more units haven't closed yet is similar to the reason so many closings are being delayed right now....market is slow, and some people are trying their hardest to delay. Unfortunately, I have seen so many people buying into investment properties over the past couple of years with a "flipping strategy" in mind, and never intended to close, or were probably not really financially in a position to be buying so much to begin with. If the market was still hot, these same people would be lining up to get their paperwork signed and get their properties on the market....since it's not that way, I am hearing horror stories of so many buyers trying seven ways from Sunday to get out of closing completely (forfeiting large EMD's) or whatever they can do to keep pushing it back.

Overall, I really like the development. I think it is beautiful and has a nice secluded feel that is hard to find with many developments using every inch of land to put as many units as possible. You don't look out of any of these units into another buiding or across to some one else's balcony...I like that. I know we have joked a lot about the pontoon boat, and maybe the owners will decide on something else, but I was glad to see there was something being offered as an access across the lake. Don't forget...I would think most of the 64 units were bought as vacation homes and such. I wouldn't imagine it would be very often that you would have 64 occupied units all waiting in line at once for the ferry on the lake. But...you guys know by now I am a fan of this place, and I fully expect to get some grief about my optimism :biggrin:

[nmosley]

Sherry - I am with you on this one.

We actually looked at Sanctuary a few years ago - before the land was even cleared and thought that it was a very beautiful, secluded place where you could really relax and enjoy the tranquility of a day in a place where time stood still. We actually had contemplated purchasing a pre-construction unit, but we wanted to keep our options open at the time and shortly afterward came the slew of hurricanes... so we never did anything about buying. But, I think it will be like Wild Heron and a few of the other more secluded PCB spots... a haven for owners who do not wish to share their piece of heaven with the masses and just want to get away and relax with friends and family.

That said, these PCB places are opting out of the "...rent your place to hoards of teenagers and families every weekend that you can't come and even some weekends that you want to come just to try to cover costs..." mentality. They may, therefore, be appealing to buyers (at some point) who do not want their privacy and peace shattered by strangers coming in and out of their neighborhoods every weekend in the summer. We will just have to see how this thing develops, but I think that the developers may be on to something - creating some properties just for the owners to enjoy for the long term instead of an investment strategy. Naj :)

[Smiling JOe]

...I would think most of the 64 units were bought as vacation homes and such. I wouldn't imagine it would be very often that you would have 64 occupied units all waiting in line at once for the ferry on the lake. But...you guys know by now I am a fan of this place, and I fully expect to get some grief about my optimism :biggrin: That may be one over-crowded jungle cruise on Independence Day. :funn:

(Just having a little funn ;-) ) I, too, think the owners who buy to live there, will enjoy the heck out of their units.

[Smiling JOe]

Sherry - I am with you on this one.

We actually looked at Sanctuary a few years ago - before the land was even cleared and thought that it was a very beautiful, secluded place where you could really relax and enjoy the tranquility of a day in a place where time stood still. ...
That used to be true, before the large numbers of condos were built in that general area. Just wait until the Sanctuary By the Sea opens its doors. Those Blue Crabs and Laughing Gulls which hang out by the outlet to Big Redfish Lake, are not going to know what to think.

[nmosley]

That being said, it is probably a good thing that we didn't end up there... As always, you have a very good perspective on things! naj :)

[SHELLY]

I'm expecting to see the developer auction off the bulk of the "unsold" or "walked-away-from-deposit" units--sooner rather than later....unless of course the developer has more money than common sense.

I would be interested in hearing how our realtors in the audience are planning to highlight the "pontoon to the beach" amenity--all things being equal, would it be mentioned before or after pointing out the granite countertops?:roll:

Maybe the developers can nominate the watercraft to appear on the new reality show sensation..."Pimp my Pontoon"...to drum up interest in the development.

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

....
Maybe the developers can nominate the watercraft to appear on the new reality show sensation..."Pimp my Pontoon"...to drum up interest in the development.
Shelly... You just redeemed yourself from all the negative real estate posts. You just actually made me laugh out loud !! :clap_1: Even showed it to my wife.

[SHELLY]

"PIMP MY PONTOON" RESULT


http://users.stlcc.edu/jangert/grndtwr/pontoon.jpg

[SHELLY]

Residents of Redfish Sanctuary board pontoon for a pleasant junt to the beach.


http://www.eleceng.adelaide.edu.au/personal/gpullman/Photos/02/Glenlock/Pontoon.jpg

[Smiling JOe]

"PIMP MY PONTOON" RESULT


http://users.stlcc.edu/jangert/grndtwr/pontoon.jpgNo property taxes on that fine floating palace. :wub:

[SHELLY]

Sanctuary at Redfish Pontoon commandeered by US Navy to patrol Tigris River in Baghdad.

http://www.wisvacations.com/hillyhaven/pontoon.jpg

[Unplugged]

Personally, I think it is pricey, but the views will be tremendous. Sitting off the beach, it is fairly protected. Only time will tell if it is a good buy. You may pick up a unit at a reduced price when they go to contract, because most people were speculating with this project. They would be happy to get their money back. Just my .02. If I were looking for a condo in which to spend my retirement, this, or those at WaterSound, may be it.

Wow - quite an endorsement ...from SJ! :biggrin:

Here I go with my pretty predictable opinion about the project ;-) I think the reason that more units haven't closed yet is similar to the reason so many closings are being delayed right now....market is slow, and some people are trying their hardest to delay. Unfortunately, I have seen so many people buying into investment properties over the past couple of years with a "flipping strategy" in mind, and never intended to close, or were probably not really financially in a position to be buying so much to begin with. If the market was still hot, these same people would be lining up to get their paperwork signed and get their properties on the market....since it's not that way, I am hearing horror stories of so many buyers trying seven ways from Sunday to get out of closing completely (forfeiting large EMD's) or whatever they can do to keep pushing it back.

Overall, I really like the development. I think it is beautiful and has a nice secluded feel that is hard to find with many developments using every inch of land to put as many units as possible. You don't look out of any of these units into another buiding or across to some one else's balcony...I like that. I know we have joked a lot about the pontoon boat, and maybe the owners will decide on something else, but I was glad to see there was something being offered as an access across the lake. Don't forget...I would think most of the 64 units were bought as vacation homes and such. I wouldn't imagine it would be very often that you would have 64 occupied units all waiting in line at once for the ferry on the lake. But...you guys know by now I am a fan of this place, and I fully expect to get some grief about my optimism :biggrin:
I do believe some have/ are INDEED forfeiting six-figure EMD's on this project... :eek:
__________________________________

[nmosley]

Shelly -
You are tooooo funny! Seriously... I think you should consider comedy as a part-time career. You have quit wit and a great sense of timing. Have an excellent evening!
Naj
:rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

[Smiling JOe]

Wow - quite an endorsement ...from SJ! :biggrin:


I do believe some have/ are INDEED forfeiting six-figure EMD's on this project... :eek:
__________________________________That six-figure EMD is not much different from the interest only payments for the first two years, and now the buyers will have their 10-20% down payment money (even though it is like prepaying all of the interest up front). Now, as prices decrease, they may be able to buy something else at a better price point. Heck, they may even be able to buy one of these at auction, and still come out ahead of other buyers who take the contract to close. :idontno:

[SHELLY]

I do believe some have/ are INDEED forfeiting six-figure EMD's on this project... :eek:
__________________________________

Ouch! I bet that's gonna leave a mark.

[Mango]

Residents of Redfish Sanctuary board pontoon for a pleasant junt to the beach.


http://www.eleceng.adelaide.edu.au/personal/gpullman/Photos/02/Glenlock/Pontoon.jpg

:lolabove: :funn: :floor: :rofl: :lolabove: I just spewed my water.

[Unplugged]

Update: 20+ units have closed. 18 units are listed for sale in the MLS. Some folks have indeed walked away from their 20% deposit...
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[Smiling JOe]

Update: 20+ units have closed. 18 units are listed for sale in the MLS. Some folks have indeed walked away from their 20% deposit...
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...and those who walked away from their $100K will not be tied to taxes, insurance and HOA. They would have spent over $100k in interest only payments over a two year period, and now they don't have to worry about selling their units.;-)

[flyforfun]

I think the development needs to polish up the sales pitch for this "amenity" --maybe hiring a retired Disney's Jungle Cruise guide with a pith helmet and cap pistol; or maybe a Bogart look-alike ala the "Jungle Queen."

NOW THAT IS FUNNNY!!! Where do I send my application to? :rolling:

[Unplugged]

...and those who walked away from their $100K will not be tied to taxes, insurance and HOA. They would have spent over $100k in interest only payments over a two year period, and now they don't have to worry about selling their units.;-)I agree with this logic - now, if only the at risk $$'s were 'just' $100k - that would have been cheap as compared to the 20% deposits that have actually been forfeited. What happens to the analysis at $200k, 300K and up? Keep in mind the least expensive units were just under $1MM, but several who walked had indeed contracted for significantly higher-priced units...
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[Smiling JOe]

I agree with this logic - now, if only the at risk $$'s were 'just' $100k - that would have been cheap as compared to the 20% deposits that have actually been forfeited. What happens to the analysis at $200k, 300K and up? Keep in mind the least expensive units were just under $1MM, but several who walked had indeed contracted for significantly higher-priced units...
___________________________________________You are correct. I was thinking that they were at 10% down, but that is probably with a 10% letter of credit, which, as you say is 20%. Still, I think after you pay the extras over two years, these people will come close to balancing out, but they will have the credit to buy the bargain basement properties in the mean time, so that could put them ahead in the long term. What do you think?

[Unplugged]

You are correct. I was thinking that they were at 10% down, but that is probably with a 10% letter of credit, which, as you say is 20%. Still, I think after you pay the extras over two years, these people will come close to balancing out, but they will have the credit to buy the bargain basement properties in the mean time, so that could put them ahead in the long term. What do you think?Oh for sure - especially when you factor in the available credit and more importantly, follow through in purchasing at these bargain prices - it's just amazing what you can pick up now at what those units sold for pre-construction...
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[John R]

i'm a little late to the party here, so i went over to their website. i hope someone got fired because of it. i can't even read it. light purple on a green background, OMG. the green field looks like wallpaper in your 90 yr old grandmother's parlor, that was there when she was a toddler, hideous. hopefully, things are nicer in reality than the page they choos to represent themselve with. the boat in SJ's picture looks quite out of place. the aerial photos look pretty cool. good luck to all the buyers.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e53/rosenrosen15/sanctuary.jpg

[nolumps]

I agree with everything you are saying. I have had the opportunity to tour Redfish throughout the construction phases, and have been very pleased with what I have seen and how it has come together. It really does seem to be a different type of development than most others. I think long term it will be a great investment. While I am sorry to see original buyers in the positions some of them are with their closings rapidly approaching, I think some one put it so well by saying...this definitely gives others who had hoped to get in and couldn't another shot. I have a couple of clients that are investors that are definitely willing to break even on where they bought in almost 2 years ago, and some are even willing to take a loss. Great opportunity for others to snatch up!
I have details on amenities, upgrades in the units, floor plans, etc if any one wants any of that.

The building looks great, could you send me some floor plans?

[Unplugged]

Check this link (http://www.exquisitedevelopment.com/projects/sanctuaryatredfish/floorplans.asp) for plans.
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[sherry]

Sanctuary at Redfish is an attached single building, but is considered to have an East and West building on each side of the arched main entry.

<See Unplugged's post above for link to plans>

[Unplugged]

Update: approximately 2/3 orig contracts have closed. The new Owner's Association takes over on 1/12/07.
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[fisher]

Update: approximately 2/3 orig contracts have closed. The new Owner's Association takes over on 1/12/07.
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Meaning that 1/3 of the original contract holders have walked away from their deposits???

[Unplugged]

Meaning that 1/3 of the original contract holders have walked away from their deposits???Meaning most of that 1/3 has successfully delayed closing. It is true that several folks have indeed walked away from their 6-figure deposits. Keep in mind, there are also a few developer hold-backs which is common with new projects.
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[fisher]

Meaning most of that 1/3 has successfully delayed closing. It is true that several folks have indeed walked away from their 6-figure deposits. Keep in mind, there are also a few developer hold-backs which is common with new projects.
______________________________________________

On the Walton County property appraiser site, only 25 units are listed as closed. That only reprents 40% of the available units.

[Unplugged]

On the Walton County property appraiser site, only 25 units are listed as closed. That only reprents 40% of the available units.I believe 36 deeds have been recorded to date...
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[Unplugged]

A new boat was just delivered to replace the pontoon boat
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[SHELLY]

A new boat was just delivered to replace the pontoon boat
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I bet those people who walked away from their deposits, in lieu of closing, are kicking themselves now!!


.

[Bobby J]

I bet those people who walked away from their deposits, in lieu of closing, are kicking themselves now!!


.

That's funny!

[Pirate]

Looks like my Tar

[Unplugged]

REALTOR® open house today: 4 - 8PM

Tour the project - multiple units will be open
______________________________________

[Unplugged]

Contract pending on unit 1113, list price was $900K

3 br/ 3.5 bath, approx 1,778 Sq. Ft
___________________________________

[jdarg]

Contract pending on unit 1113, list price was $900K

3 br/ 3.5 bath, approx 1,778 Sq. Ft
___________________________________

so did they get the list price?:idontno:

[Unplugged]

We won't know until after closing...
__________________________________

[Unplugged]

More activity: contract is now pending on unit #3108

List price: $1.15MM
Approx Sq. Ft: 2,443
________________________________________________

[Unplugged]

More activity: contract is now pending on unit #3108

List price: $1.15MM
Approx Sq. Ft: 2,443
________________________________________________
Sold: $1.1MM, cash sale, one week close, unfurnished

________________________________________________

[Unplugged]

Sold: 7/10/07, unit 1113, $900,000 - pool house [cabana] included....
__________________________________________

[Unplugged]

Unit 1113 is back on the market:

$699,000 plus $20,000 agent bonus w/ approved contract

(this is $225K below original preconstruction pricing for that floor plan)

_______________________________________________

[luvthebeach57]

Hi! I'm new to the forum. After spending 3 weeks pouring over hundreds of choices of places to rent, I have decided the Sanctuary at Redfish is the place where we want to stay for our August vacation. It is a truly unique property with a great deal of privacy. I doubt it will be overrun by vacationers. I have only been able to locate 7 units that are available to rent. As far as I can tell, none of them have been booked for this summer yet.

The four pools and two hot tubs are gorgeous. I wouldn't be surprised if we practically have them all to ourselves.

The question that I'm asking each rental agent is "How do we get to the beach?" I've been told there is a boat shuttle, but I have no idea where it drops you off. No one seems to be able to answer this question. I've also been told we can drive to a nearby public beach access.

Can anyone answer this question for me?

:chill:

[Smiling JOe]

luvthebeach, the boat shuttle drops you off at the outflow to the Gulf, and you walk maybe 50 yards to the Gulf. Please stay off the dunes in that area. They are very fragile. The shuttle guy typically sets up some chairs and umbrellas for you, from what I've seen. There is a canoe and some kayaks there at the dock, too, though I'm not sure if they belong to everyone or are privately owned. If you wanted to walk to the beach, you would walk west along 30A, then south on the first road after crossing the Lake, and there is a public access near the end of that street. Note that the Gulf front property owners on both sides of that public access recently filed claim to the actual beach. New restrooms are being constructed just a little beyond that first road at the public access at Hwy 83. There is also a showering station at that access. Parking is extremely limited, so if you have a bicycle or rent bikes, you can easily ride from Sanctuary at Redfish. There is a bike rack at the Hwy 83 access. From Sanctuary at RF, hwy 83 access is probably 4/10 of a mile at the most, maybe a 12 min walk.

[sowalgayboi]

SJ, do the bathrooms mean there will soon be a lifeguard?

[SHELLY]

SJ, do the bathrooms mean there will soon be a lifeguard?

...not exactly. But if you see a drowning individual, walk over into the dry sand of the nearby private beaches and the owners will hit the speed-dial button to the Beach Gestapo.


.

[sowalgayboi]

...not exactly. But if you see a drowning individual, walk over into the dry sand of the nearby private beaches and the owners will hit the speed-dial button to the Beach Gestapo.


.

:funn:

[Smiling JOe]

...not exactly. But if you see a drowning individual, walk over into the dry sand of the nearby private beaches and the owners will hit the speed-dial button to the Beach Gestapo.


.
Heck, if they are swimming in front of the private beaches, they are probably the owners, and there will be no one in the house to call for help. :shock: If they aren't the owners, maybe the survivor, or the victim's family could file suit against the owners in front of where the victim drown, claiming that if the beach was public, a lifeguard could be stationed there and the person wouldn't have drowned.

swgb, to my knowledge, the County cannot station a lifeguard on property being claimed as private, at least until the courts decide. In Sept 07, the Gulf Front property owners, to the east of 83 public access, recorded deeds stating that they owned the beach. I guess the interior lot owners haven't realized it yet, because they have not filed suit against them yet, claiming their own rights to it, due to abandonment for more than 20 years. If they did so and won, the general public would also stand an excellent chance of winning any trespass charges on that beach as well, because the evidence would show that the public has been using that beach forever.

[luvthebeach57]

luvthebeach, the boat shuttle drops you off at the outflow to the Gulf, and you walk maybe 50 yards to the Gulf. Please stay off the dunes in that area. They are very fragile. The shuttle guy typically sets up some chairs and umbrellas for you, from what I've seen.

Thanks for the info. I don't understand why none of the rental agents seem to have this information. I guess no one has ever asked before. It's great to know that there are people on this message board who have some answers!

[luvthebeach57]

If you wanted to walk to the beach, you would walk west along 30A, then south on the first road after crossing the Lake, and there is a public access near the end of that street. Note that the Gulf front property owners on both sides of that public access recently filed claim to the actual beach. New restrooms are being constructed just a little beyond that first road at the public access at Hwy 83. There is also a showering station at that access. Parking is extremely limited, so if you have a bicycle or rent bikes, you can easily ride from Sanctuary at Redfish. There is a bike rack at the Hwy 83 access. From Sanctuary at RF, hwy 83 access is probably 4/10 of a mile at the most, maybe a 12 min walk.

I'm looking at a satellite image from Google Earth. I follow 83 west to Blue Lake Rd and turn left there. Then do I follow Blue Lake Rd to the end? It looks like there is a path from the end of Blue Lake to the beach. Is this what you're talking about? I don't see any place to park there. There also seems to be a path leading to the beach at the end of Sea Grade Road (which comes off of Blue Lake Rd). It looks like there might be a few parking spaces there. There also seems to be a beach access at the end of Gulf Point Rd with some parking across the street. I do see that there is quite a bit of parking available at the access at the end of 83. It's about a half mile walk or bike ride to the Gulf Point Rd access according to Google Earth.

Do you know if they have some paths or boardwalks that go along the shore of Redfish Lake from the condos to the beach? That might actually be a more direct route.

I don't think riding bikes carrying 3 beach chairs, an umbrella and a cooler is going to be possible. It's also too far to walk lugging all that stuff in the August heat. We will probably either drive or take the boat shuttle.

I've gone to dozens of beaches all over the US, as well as Hawaii and the Caribbean. I've never heard of a "private beach." If we decided to set up our chairs on the sand in front of their house, we would be trespassing?? Of course, we're not going to walk into their yard.

[SHELLY]

I've gone to dozens of beaches all over the US, as well as Hawaii and the Caribbean. I've never heard of a "private beach." If we decided to set up our chairs on the sand in front of their house, we would be trespassing?? Of course, we're not going to walk into their yard.

If you are on "their dry sand" they can call the police and you can be handcuffed, removed from the beach and given a summons to appear in court (or you can pay the fine for tresspassing)--welcome to "Their Beaches of Walton County." If in doubt--just sit on the wet sand.

/sarcasm off


.

[luvthebeach57]

How do you know which parts of the beach are considered to be private? Do the owners have signs posted? Are there just a few overzealous homeowners who are doing this or is it a widespread problem?

[John R]

you could try wearing an orange outfit and say you are conducting 'marketing research' for theTM beach. they'd never arrest you.

[Smiling JOe]

See attached map with my labels for beach accesses and parking. No boardwalks from Sanctuary at Redfish to the beach. You;d be crossing private property. Note the Google earth map isn't updated, and there is a whole lot of stuff which is new and not shown, regarding buildings.

Regarding the Private Beach Issue, this is new on us. We've been using the beach for countless years, and last year, a few people and developments began erecting signs, and hiring security. People were arrested for criminal trespass. If you want to read up on the topic, search the forums for "private beach."

[Smiling JOe]

If you are on "their dry sand" they can call the police and you can be handcuffed, removed from the beach and given a summons to appear in court (or you can pay the fine for tresspassing)--welcome to "Their Beaches of Walton County." If in doubt--just sit on the wet sand.

/sarcasm off


.
...and you can spend up to one year in jail and be fined up to $1000 for Criminal Trespass if found guilty. Or, you can hire a good lawyer and tell these people who are claiming the beach as their own, to SHOVE IT!

[Smiling JOe]

luvthebeach, only a handful of developments have the signs posted, but many people have deeds showing that they own part of the beach. My take on it is that while they may posses a deed showing ownership of the beach, the rights associated with the beach portion of the property may be different than the upland portion. If you want to do some research, read up on the cases regarding private beaches. The only reason I pointed it out is that it is an issue that came up last year, and had people shaking their heads when the Sheriff's deputies told them that they had to put their towel in the wet sand if they wanted to stay on the beach.

[TreeFrog]

How do you know which parts of the beach are considered to be private? Do the owners have signs posted? Are there just a few overzealous homeowners who are doing this or is it a widespread problem?

One of life's most interesting moments is when you discover you have innocently touched someone's "hot button" without even trying.

"Overzealous homeowners" is far too charitable, if you ask me...

[sowalgayboi]

luvthebeach, the boat shuttle drops you off at the outflow to the Gulf, and you walk maybe 50 yards to the Gulf. Please stay off the dunes in that area. They are very fragile. The shuttle guy typically sets up some chairs and umbrellas for you, from what I've seen.

Thanks for the info. I don't understand why none of the rental agents seem to have this information. I guess no one has ever asked before. It's great to know that there are people on this message board who have some answers!

These are fairly new rentals and like anything new not all of the information is available or disseminated.

[luvthebeach57]

Smiling Joe,

Thanks so much for taking the time to show the beach access points on the Google Earth image. This is exactly what I was looking for. I can't thank you enough!

Lisa

[Smiling JOe]

you R welcome. Please note that the parking at the 83 public access is very limited, only about 12-15 small spaces will be built, and they are often filled even in the off-season.

[luvthebeach57]

you R welcome. Please note that the parking at the 83 public access is very limited, only about 12-15 small spaces will be built, and they are often filled even in the off-season.

So it sounds like the parking may be filled up in August and we shouldn't count on getting a spot.

[SHELLY]

So it sounds like the parking may be filled up in August and we shouldn't count on getting a spot.

Maybe you can load all your beach stuff in the car in the morning (including a bike), drive down and park, then bike back to the condo and everyone walk or bike down to the beach later in the day. :idontno:


.

[sowalgayboi]

Maybe you can load all your beach stuff in the car in the morning (including a bike), drive down and park, then bike back to the condo and everyone walk or bike down to the beach later in the day. :idontno:


.

Sounds like an old trick to me.

[SHELLY]

Sounds like an old trick to me.

And no one knows an old trick like GB does. ;-)


.

[sowalgayboi]

And no one knows an old trick like GB does. ;-)


.

Touchee, where did we meet? :floor:

[sowalgayboi]

SJ, I have attached a survey of the area you mentioned earlier, are these home owners seriously trying to claim the land in front of the Public Beach Access?

[Smiling JOe]

So it sounds like the parking may be filled up in August and we shouldn't count on getting a spot.Correct, hence my earlier comment about renting or bringing a bicycle or two, or three. Big Daddy's Bike Shop, located just over the hill, to the west, rents and delivers bicycles, and they are good people, too.

[Smiling JOe]

SJ, I have attached a survey of the area you mentioned earlier, are these home owners seriously trying to claim the land in front of the Public Beach Access?
I have not heard that, nor have I intended to state that in this thread. The properties which I was talking about in this particular thread are the Gulf front properties extending westward, from Big Redfish Lake, up to the Public Access at Hwy 83. The stretch of properties does include three public accesses to beaches which are being claimed as privately owned. The survey you posted is for the four properties to the immediate west of the 83 public access. My guess is that they will claim the beach in front of their properties, just as everyone to the west has done, up through The Retreat, except for the Redfish Village, which in a public County Meeting stated that they would dedicate the beach portion of their deeded property to the public, in order to get approval for building the restrooms and making it a private access for the owners in Redfish Village. (how crazy is this? Private Access to public beach vs public access to private beach. No wonder everyone is confused as to who owns what.)

[sowalgayboi]

I have not heard that, nor have I intended to state that in this thread. The properties which I was talking about in this particular thread are the Gulf front properties extending westward, from Big Redfish Lake, up to the Public Access at Hwy 83. The stretch of properties does include three public accesses to beaches which are being claimed as privately owned. The survey you posted is for the four properties to the immediate west of the 83 public access. My guess is that they will claim the beach in front of their properties, just as everyone to the west has done, up through The Retreat, except for the Redfish Village, which in a public County Meeting stated that they would dedicate the beach portion of their deeded property to the public, in order to get approval for building the restrooms and making it a private access for the owners in Redfish Village. (how crazy is this? Private Access to public beach vs public access to private beach. No wonder everyone is confused as to who owns what.)

Okay, I just misread your previous post.

Is Redfish perhaps meaning that they won't enforce the wetsand/drysand boundary? In other words you can use it if you can get thru the barbed wire and dobermans on either side?

[kimbug]

My family has also decided to vacation at Sanctuary @ Redfish this summer. I hope we haven't made a bad decision to do so. We have stayed at Adagio for the past 3 summers and the beach there is getting so crowded. We were hoping for more privacy (and a larger condo) and have been told we should have that. I just hope the boat ride across the lake isn't too much of a hassle. We don't have small children, just a few teenagers who enjoy spending their time between the pool and beach. When I decided to take the place, I remembered reading the beginning of this thread when SJ gave it some nice reviews. Do you still think it's a decent place to vacation, SJ, or would you opt for something different? Our problem is that we need a place that sleeps at least 7 in beds (not sleeper sofa) as my 15 year old son has requested an actual bed this year. He's not spoiled; he's just 6 ft. tall and growing! We prefer southside of 30A with some sort of view of the beach so that cuts out many beautiful homes (which we'd have a walk to the beach anyway :idontno: right).

[Smiling JOe]

gayboi, If Redfish Village did indeed dedicate the lower elevation of the beach to the public as they said they would, the public can use the beach. The public can walk across any beach, as I understand, without trespassing, so you could go down the 83 public access and walk west to that beach. However, don't try to go through the Private Access with restrooms. It is gated.

kimbug, I cannot answer your question. In the past, no one has tried to claim the beach to the east of the 83 access as private, but I saw the deed filed in Sept 2007, staking claim to the beach, so there may or may not be trouble. We'll see. Yes, the condos at Sanctuary at Redfish are nice, but there is no dedicated beach access for them, and they are not beach front. My guess is the boat shuttle is a fairly easy way to access the beach. I'm not sure if you tell the boat driver to pick you up in an hour, or what. They haven't had enough users to have a regular schedule. The only potential problem of walking to the beach at the hwy 83 access is that the property owners on both sides may try to kick you onto the wet sand. Not all of the owners to the west of that access have defended the beach as their own property, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them following suit. I'd guess the public access at 83 is maybe 75 ft wide, so if the property owners kick everyone onto that narrow stretch of beach, you could be thinking twice. Time will tell.

[sowalgayboi]

My family has also decided to vacation at Sanctuary @ Redfish this summer. I hope we haven't made a bad decision to do so. We have stayed at Adagio for the past 3 summers and the beach there is getting so crowded. We were hoping for more privacy (and a larger condo) and have been told we should have that. I just hope the boat ride across the lake isn't too much of a hassle. We don't have small children, just a few teenagers who enjoy spending their time between the pool and beach. When I decided to take the place, I remembered reading the beginning of this thread when SJ gave it some nice reviews. Do you still think it's a decent place to vacation, SJ, or would you opt for something different? Our problem is that we need a place that sleeps at least 7 in beds (not sleeper sofa) as my 15 year old son has requested an actual bed this year. He's not spoiled; he's just 6 ft. tall and growing! We prefer southside of 30A with some sort of view of the beach so that cuts out many beautiful homes (which we'd have a walk to the beach anyway :idontno: right).

If you had Gulf Front at Adagio I think you'll be disappointed. As for the sleeper sofa, I don't think that's spoiled or height. I'm all of 5' 8" and wouldn't sleep on one of those torture devices.

[sowalgayboi]

gayboi, If Redfish Village did indeed dedicate the lower elevation of the beach to the public as they said they would, the public can use the beach. The public can walk across any beach, as I understand, without trespassing, so you could go down the 83 public access and walk west to that beach. However, don't try to go through the Private Access with restrooms. It is gated.

That is more clarifying. I still can't believe the deed issue. If that works, I'm gonna have a lovely piece that extends from Defuniak down 331 to 283 and then thru the state park. The new addition will be a lovely beach front lot with Western lake in the backyard. Hope the ranger doesn't mind.

[kimbug]

gayboi, If Redfish Village did indeed dedicate the lower elevation of the beach to the public as they said they would, the public can use the beach. The public can walk across any beach, as I understand, without trespassing, so you could go down the 83 public access and walk west to that beach. However, don't try to go through the Private Access with restrooms. It is gated.

kimbug, I cannot answer your question. In the past, no one has tried to claim the beach to the east of the 83 access as private, but I saw the deed filed in Sept 2007, staking claim to the beach, so there may or may not be trouble. We'll see. Yes, the condos at Sanctuary at Redfish are nice, but there is no dedicated beach access for them, and they are not beach front. My guess is the boat shuttle is a fairly easy way to access the beach. I'm not sure if you tell the boat driver to pick you up in an hour, or what. They haven't had enough users to have a regular schedule. The only potential problem of walking to the beach at the hwy 83 access is that the property owners on both sides may try to kick you onto the wet sand. Not all of the owners to the west of that access have defended the beach as their own property, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them following suit. I'd guess the public access at 83 is maybe 75 ft wide, so if the property owners kick everyone onto that narrow stretch of beach, you could be thinking twice. Time will tell.

Thanks, SJ. After panicking, almost cancelling, and getting everyone in my family upset (somewhat usual for me when planning a vacation), we've decided to keep our reservation at Redfish. The natural surroundings, beauty of the property (and a call to the management company) convinced me to give it a try. Apparently, the boat operator is also the maintenance person. Guests are given his cell phone number and are to call him when ready to depart the beach. We'll see how that goes :idontno:. We have never had a bad experience visiting sowal and this property has too many amenities to not try it out. I'm sure I'll let everyone know how it goes. Hopefully none of our party will be hauled off to jail for sitting on the "wrong" section of beach ;-)!

[Smiling JOe]

Didn't mean to scare you, but I think it is fair for people, spending mucho money to come to the beach, to know what they are getting and the circumstances regarding the claims to the sandy beach, being made by some. I think if you are aware, you will at least be somewhat prepared if someone calls the cops on you for sitting at the beach. The Sanctuary at Redfish has some great views across Big Redfish Lake.

[SHELLY]

Apparently, the boat operator is also the maintenance person. Guests are given his cell phone number and are to call him when ready to depart the beach. We'll see how that goes :idontno:.


Captain Dwayne F. Schneider, must suck to be him. :roll:


.

[q1]

kimbug stayed there in june 2007. great place you will have a great time.
the positives: new, uncrowded, good health club, great pools, good service lunch brought to you at the beach if you like.
not so positives: not on the beach, beach access is by boat as you noted, and there was some lady there everyday trying to sell her unit to anyone that would listen.

picture of the beach:http://www.sowal.com/bb/gallery/showimage.php?i=6997&catid=newimages

[kimbug]

Didn't mean to scare you, but I think it is fair for people, spending mucho money to come to the beach, to know what they are getting and the circumstances regarding the claims to the sandy beach, being made by some. I think if you are aware, you will at least be somewhat prepared if someone calls the cops on you for sitting at the beach. The Sanctuary at Redfish has some great views across Big Redfish Lake.

I appreciate the advice, SJ. We rented from vrbo.com but dealt with the owner's management company (which is new for us) and they were pretty confident about the beach access and they also mentioned the sister property, Sanctuary by the Sea next door that has deeded beach access. IDK, if the cops show up, I'll just let my brother-in-law handle it since he's a cop too :cool:! We're kind of harmless...not tent dwellers, don't have loud children and definitely pick up after ourselves (and others)!

The property does look to have some beautiful views and the unit we have booked is on the 3rd & 4th floor. I'm secretly hoping for the master bdrm. upstairs so that I can enjoy a quiet morning or 2 looking at the lake, dunes and gulf. That combo alone makes the boat ride seem worth it! And SHELLY, ur right about being the boat captain...it probably does suck!

Do you know anything about the Sanctuary by the Sea? Is construction still ongoing?

[Smiling JOe]

I believe Sanctuary by the Sea is open for business. However, I don't think the Sanctuary at Redfish owners get to share amenities and dedicated beach access of SbytheS. Not many dunes to look at from S at RF, but more than in NE Ohio.

[kimbug]

I believe Sanctuary by the Sea is open for business. However, I don't think the Sanctuary at Redfish owners get to share amenities and dedicated beach access of SbytheS. Not many dunes to look at from S at RF, but more than in NE Ohio.


True dat, SJ, unless you count the "dunes" of snow I've got accumulating in my yard NE Ohio does nothing for me in the winter :cry:! You've just given me more to think about since the mgmt. co. mentioned that since SbytheS has access we could just use that beach in case of a problem. Confusing to say the least. Again, I appreciate the way you look out for those of us in search of fair & honest answers when it's not cheap to rent a nice place.

I just found a place @ Watersound that I would love to rent so I'm starting my campaign right now. Guess I'll have to start a new thread for advice....

[Smiling JOe]

I haven't seen signs posted on the beach in front of S by the S, stating private property, yet. Haven't even looked at the deeds for that property. However, that stretch of beach has been empty for a long time. It may be different as the rentals grow for those developments, but for the moment, it remains quiet, and the birds love to hang out on that stretch of beach. One thing is for certain, it will be much quieter than where you stayed last year if your avatar is any sign of where you stayed.

[kimbug]

I'll be glad for any change in venue to tell the truth. Although the pool @ Adagio (where we've stayed last 3 years) is very fun for the kids (and husbands who pretty much act like the kids :blink:) we also like the beach. But I find it hard to concentrate on a book let alone hear the sounds of the beach with the crowds of people surrounding me in that area. I know, maybe I should come for a visit in the Fall.

Wherever we decide, we'll have a good time. We always do; that's why we keep coming back :clap:!

[luvthebeach57]

Kimbug,

Looks like you have the same thoughts about Sanctuary at Redfish that we have. Since it's new, I think it will be very quiet. Plus, they do have nice amenities, especially the pools. Like you, I'm concerned about how to get to the beach. I guess if we take the boat shuttle, we should be okay if we stay in the area where they drop us off since there aren't any homes right there.

I went online to check out the county property records. I could only find 42 units that have actually been purchased. Of those, there are 21 that are currently up for sale. Looks like there may have been a good deal of investors who bought these units in hopes of flipping them. I searched high and low on the Internet. I also called up every rental management company. I was only able to locate 7 units that are currently available to rent. We are looking at an end-unit on the 3rd floor for the first week of August. When are you guys planning your vacation?

Lisa

[luvthebeach57]

Stayed there in june 2007. great place you will have a great time.
the positives: new, uncrowded, good health club, great pools, good service lunch brought to you at the beach if you like.
not so positives: not on the beach, beach access is by boat as you noted, and there was some lady there everyday trying to sell her unit to anyone that would listen.

q1,

You posted a beautiful photo of the beach. Exactly where was the photo taken?

Did the boat shuttle drop you off near the inlet to Redfish Lake? Did you have to wait long to get picked up to be brought back? A concern during August is that we may want to get off the beach right away if a storm comes up suddenly.

Lisa

[Smiling JOe]

There is only one place the boat can drop you off, due to the Lake being mostly surrounded by private property. That place is the outflow/inlet. The chairs I've seen from Sanctuary at Redfish are typically set up near the Gulf, very close to the outflow -- easy walk from the Lake. The boat driver seems to always be Johnny on the spot, and I've never seen anyone waiting at the outflow. I'm guessing the guy doesn't have much to do, other than drive the boat and some misc. things. Today, there were just four seagulls nesting on the beach, with two other long legged birds which I have not seen before. There were also a four kids running around the beach and through the sand dunes. Looked like they headed into Bannerman.

[q1]

Lisa

Picture was taken directly in front of the boat drop point. There is only one drop point at the outflow.

In terms of waiting, never had to wait long, 5 minutes max. Boat driver was more than attentive.

[sowalgayboi]

I'm curious on the boat issue, I understand getting to the beach, but if you don't have a cell phone how do you get back from the beach? Signal Flares?

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

...... to my knowledge, the County cannot station a lifeguard on property being claimed as private, at least until the courts decide. In Sept 07, the Gulf Front property owners, to the east of 83 public access, recorded deeds stating that they owned the beach. I guess the interior lot owners haven't realized it yet, because they have not filed suit against them yet, claiming their own rights to it, due to abandonment for more than 20 years. If they did so and won, the general public would also stand an excellent chance of winning any trespass charges on that beach as well, because the evidence would show that the public has been using that beach forever.
SJ, more of the "quick and loose" with the keyboard??

You said, "I guess the interior lot owners haven't realized it yet, because they have not filed suit against them yet, claiming their own rights to it, due to abandonment for more than 20 years."

The interior lot owners at Blue Mountain Beach Subdivision have full rights to the wet and dry sandy areas of the beach and therefore have no need to "file suit" as you suggest.

[Smiling JOe]

http://www.sowal.com/bb/gallery/files/6/8/4/BMBwest.GIF
I stand corrected.

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

From instrument # 1011222 filed in September, 2007: "....will not interfere with the normal use and enjoyment of said beach area by any owner of property in Blue Mountain Beach Subdivision No. 1."


http://www.sowal.com/bb/gallery/files/6/8/4/BMBwest.GIF



EDIT: "You stand corrected" because you found the snapshot of the above instrument in my photo files and just had to post it before I could finish the above post. Just so everyone understands who is correcting who or whom or whomever or whatever.

[John R]

"You stand corrected" because you found the snapshot of the above instrument in my photo files and just had to post it before I could finish the above post. Just so everyone understands who is correcting who or whom or whomever or whatever.

oh my!

[Smiling JOe]

That is correct. I was just wandering why you would post the comment but not the image showing what you were saying. Since you didn't post it, I thought I would.

[Smiling JOe]

Although it is a different subject than Sanctuary at Redfish, that corrective deed is interestingly filed in 2007, when the developer's company dissolved many years ago. It could be argued that that due to the absence of a claim to the property for more than twenty years, it was abandoned.

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

That is correct. I was just wandering why you would post the comment but not the image showing what you were saying. Since you didn't post it, I thought I would.

Because I was hoping for once (just hoping) that you would believe something I posted without me having to go to the damn official records website each time.

But since you challenged me again, I was forced to get an image of the "proof" you seem always need from me at 9:59am today. Then while I was typing a reply to your post and getting ready to include "my" snapshot, you grab the snapshot without any acknowledgement from where it came from - a typical SJ CYA. Note the times of the two posts are the same.

SJ, you originally generated post #128 at 9:04am where you call me out forceing me to defend my statement with proof in a manner that I have become accustomed to with you.

Then right after I took the "snapshot" at 9:59am, you cleared out your post #128 and inserted my image in your post knowing you screwed up (again). The updated time on your edit was 10:19am.

You really seemed to be in a hurry to beat me to my own point. Probably doesn't look as bad....right?

Next time, why don't you leave the original "meat of the matter" in your post, THEN "...stand corrected"?

If it was just an honest mistake, that's one thing. But the original tone you exhibited (and you know what I'm taliking about), well....

I don't know what's worse...you pissing on me or me pissing back on you.
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[scooterbug44]

I don't know what's worse...you pissing on me or me pissing back on you.


Or adults acting like kids who missed their nap time! :roll:

[Smiling JOe]

You really seemed to be in a hurry to beat me to my own point. Probably doesn't look as bad....right?

Next time, why don't you leave the original "meat of the matter" in your post, THEN "...stand corrected"?

If it was just an honest mistake, that's one thing. But the original tone you exhibited (and you know what I'm taliking about), well....

I don't know what's worse...you pissing on me or me pissing back on you.
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I just happened to notice the pic in the photo albums for the day. I could really care less of when what was posted. The only thing I was quick to do was to post the error which I made after seeing the image you posted. Read into whatever you want. I guess that you don't see my statement, "I stand corrected," as I was incorrect and acknowledge that you are correct. I'm not sure how you want me to better say that.

[John R]

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e53/rosenrosen15/wambulance_logo.jpg

[30abob]

I'm not sure if I can ask an "innocent and sincere" question on this thread,but here goes...

I heard recently (last week maybe) on the local news "fill-in" portion of the NPR morning news that the US Army Corps of Engineers was working on a feasibility study (with input from Walton Co TDC) for beach re-nourishment for Walton County beaches between Topsail Preserve and Seagrove (I think) due to beach erosion. IF this is true AND they actually spend the $40 to $60 million that they are currently planning what affect does this have on the Public vs. Private dilemma? I know how this was addressed in Okaloosa Co and Walton Co up to Topsail, at least I think I know. Does that represent legal precedence?

As a matter of disclaimer: I live in Blue Mountain Beach and frequented the contested area this past Summer, we moved here June 1, 2007. I didn't hear of the Public vs. Private debate until October, and after hearing of it I was always respectful of the wet sand line as I would jog from the Co Rd 83 access to the East to the Redfish Lake outflow. No one ever seemed overly interested that I was there and I usually said good morning to those that I saw - if I wasn't out of breath.

I have a conflicting opinion on this issue. A) I have strong Libertarian beliefs that lead me to advocate for private property rights and see a very narrow window for eminent domain seizures if any window at all. B) The concept of owning THE (emphasis added in sarcasm) Beach has never occurred to me previous to moving here. I guess (maybe) I can see a difference in owning lake front real estate that has limited movement in the water/land line (discounting the recent drought conditions in many areas) and the Gulf/Ocean front real estate that is in a constant state of movement. For example, in my beach jogging excursions this Summer and Fall I noticed that the "white sand" area of the beach moved more than 25 feet inland in some areas due to erosion. I can also find many examples of the courts finding "abandonment" with similar scenarios of long term usage by the public. How many times has the property owner added sand? How many times has the government? Whose sand is there now? It's all too ambiguous.

All that said I truly am an "innocent" bystander... at least I was. :blink:

And I really want the thoughts of others on what happens if the COE and TDC re-nourish THE Beach. :idontno:

[sowalgayboi]

Bob, if I remember correctly and can add confusion, Walton County was waiting on 30A due to all of the issues around renourishment. Permitting, legal challenges for "private beaches", turtles, etc.

As for jogging, that has never been the issue. Anyone is free to walk down the beach. Provided they keep moving. Stop and try to set up camp and the men in green come down to get you.

[sowalgayboi]

Because I was hoping for once (just hoping) that you would believe something I posted without me having to go to the damn official records website each time.

But since you challenged me again, I was forced to get an image of the "proof" you seem always need from me at 9:59am today. Then while I was typing a reply to your post and getting ready to include "my" snapshot, you grab the snapshot without any acknowledgement from where it came from - a typical SJ CYA. Note the times of the two posts are the same.

SJ, you originally generated post #128 at 9:04am where you call me out forceing me to defend my statement with proof in a manner that I have become accustomed to with you.

Then right after I took the "snapshot" at 9:59am, you cleared out your post #128 and inserted my image in your post knowing you screwed up (again). The updated time on your edit was 10:19am.

You really seemed to be in a hurry to beat me to my own point. Probably doesn't look as bad....right?

Next time, why don't you leave the original "meat of the matter" in your post, THEN "...stand corrected"?

If it was just an honest mistake, that's one thing. But the original tone you exhibited (and you know what I'm taliking about), well....

I don't know what's worse...you pissing on me or me pissing back on you.
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I believe all of this was ruled on in Hillary Supporters vs. Obama Supporters in the 1st circuit court of the politics forum.

[TreeFrog]

I heard recently (last week maybe) on the local news "fill-in" portion of the NPR morning news that the US Army Corps of Engineers was working on a feasibility study (with input from Walton Co TDC) for beach re-nourishment for Walton County beaches between Topsail Preserve and Seagrove (I think) due to beach erosion. IF this is true AND they actually spend the $40 to $60 million...

Not to even get into the privatization issue-

Hasn't the beach pretty much renourished itself by now? Sure looks that way down here by Eastern Lake. Why waste the $60M on dredging?

Why not spend the bucks on 4-laning the 331 bridge? Or some other large-scale project that's truly in the public interest.

Yeah, I know, different programs, different agencies, different funding.

But still...

[John R]

Bob, very good insight and questions. There may be some spirited discussion from both sides, but ultimately as BMBV has indicated previously(I think), it will be up to the courts.

[NotDeadYet]

IF this is true AND they actually spend the $40 to $60 million that they are currently planning what affect does this have on the Public vs. Private dilemma? I know how this was addressed in Okaloosa Co and Walton Co up to Topsail, at least I think I know. Does that represent legal precedence?


This has been pretty extensively covered in the papers. The Beach Breeze has had the most comprehensive coverage, but many here do not read it. To make a long story short, the state draws a line in the sand, called the Erosion Control Line or ECL. After renourishment the "new" beach seaward of the ECL becomes public. I would not call it a precedence - it is a statutory requirement. In addition to bed tax money, other public funds are spent on renourishment and so the state has decided it must be public, otherwise it becomes a case of spending huge amounts of tax dollars on private property. Unfortunately in the Miramar Beach area this is being ignored, specifically by Surfside, which has placed two great big signs on the beach, identifying it as private and citing a bogus Florida statute. I spoke to the DEP about this and they agreed there is no question the renourished beach at Surfside is public, but they have no enforcement mechanism to get the signs removed. They have been there since last summer. And I doubt that most people understand the legalities of renourishment, they are probably just intimidated. Also you cannot tell exactly where the ECL is, it is not marked or anything like that.
Furthermore, there is a case before the courts right now in which a few property owners are challenging the whole deal because they do not want a new public beach in front of their private beach. Whatever ruling comes out of that could change the whole ball game.
Which areas exactly would be renourished is pretty much up to the DEP - they have to deem it "critically eroded" and there is criteria for that, hence all the studies and such. It's a long permitting process.
Hope this helps.

[NotDeadYet]

One further thought - I think the TDC and the county have been hoping renourishment would solve the public vs private dilemma, it the court case doesn't derail the whole thing or produce some new rules. But IMHO they have dropped the ball by allowing those Surfside signs to remain there. :bang:

[Smiling JOe]

It is an important subject, so please post private beach posts in the private beaches threads, otherwise, much useful discussion and info goes unseen by people looking for info on it.

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

It is an important subject, so please post private beach posts in the private beaches threads, otherwise, much useful discussion and info goes unseen by people looking for info on it.
SJ, don't worry too much about it. I believe EVERYTHING that is going to be said here has been said elsewhere in one flavor or another.

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

I believe all of this was ruled on in Hillary Supporters vs. Obama Supporters in the 1st circuit court of the politics forum.
Yea I know...did you see John McCain's face while Romney was endorsing him?

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

Not to even get into the privatization issue-

Hasn't the beach pretty much renourished itself by now? Sure looks that way down here by Eastern Lake. Why waste the $60M on dredging?

Why not spend the bucks on 4-laning the 331 bridge? Or some other large-scale project that's truly in the public interest.

Yeah, I know, different programs, different agencies, different funding.

But still...

POW!!

That's the sound of your hammer hitting the nail on the head.

Your question, "Why not spend the bucks on 4-laning the 331 bridge?" is a great one. The answer is that our bridges don't attract touristas.

How else is one going to "grow" the tourist industry in SoWal if a sginificant amount of the beaches are private?

Hey I know...throw some grains of sand out there and confiscate it.

"But Mr.and Ms. County Comissioner, we've got a beach out here. They seem to be recovering" says the beach front owner. "Can't we wait to do all this renourishment when we REALLY need it?".

Commissioner: "Nope, we need the beach to be public now. Trespassing arrests are bad for business, don't ya know. How else are we going to get away with approving the future Redfish Villages and Nature Walks and other large developments that need your private beach?"

"But Commissioner, I bought into the peace, tranquility and beauty of the area which I thought were protected by my private property rights."

"We don't care. Business is business. How are we going to increase passenger flow to justify a 330 million dollar airport to the federal and state authorities? ......and BTW my biggest "campaign contributor" is a developer who needs work."

[kimbug]

Ok...so I have read all of these arguments and just have one question....if I vacation at the Sanctuary at Redfish, use the boat to cross the lake to get to the beach as suggested by owners/mgmt. co. am I going to be trespassing? Apparently in the past "touristas" have contacted the umbrella people and paid for set ups each day and were just fine. I just really need to know and somehow I get the feeling I'll get more honest answers here even though I want to believe what I'm being told by the Sanctuary people. At the very least, could someone make a suggestion as to who I might call...the county, the sheriff's office??

[30abob]

Thanks for the responses!

It's hard to see a "win - win" solution to this problem... I guess it's a good thing the government is involved. They know how to fix everything.;-)

[Smiling JOe]

kimbug, the Sheriff cannot make that ruling, and it is up to the person claiming the property to call the cops and press charges. The plat of that s/d between the 83 access and the outflow of Big Redfish Lake shows the eastern property boundary being the Lake. So, technically, many people have set up their towels on that beach which is deeded. However, I have yet to see anyone run people off from the beach in that subdivision, and the public has been using it for a long time. I will remind you that every day is a new day, and you cannot base tomorrow's decisions based solely on history. I haven't looked at the deeds for the properties to the east of the Lake, but I would guess that the beach in deeded in those cases, too. I guess you could legally set up in the outflow, if it is open, but if you want to play by the rule as written, rather than that which is common, I don't think you could set up on the dry sandy beach at near the outflow.

[TreeFrog]

Your question, "Why not spend the bucks on 4-laning the 331 bridge?" is a great one. The answer is that our bridges don't attract touristas.

How else is one going to "grow" the tourist industry in SoWal if a sginificant amount of the beaches are private?

Hey I know...throw some grains of sand out there and confiscate it. How else are we going to get away with approving the future Redfish Villages and Nature Walks and other large developments that need your private beach?"


Duh. Silly me.

As you can see by my straightforward question and my simple, commonsense alternate for spending the money, I'm clearly not devious enough to be a politician.

OK, looking at it differently then...

You'd think that it would cost a lot less than $50M to see the issue through the courts, instead of the wasteful, inconclusive, and (eventually) temporary expedient of pumping sand up on the beach. There will eventually be another storm, and we'll have to spend another $50M.

Or am I still being sensible?

[sowalgayboi]

Here's a question:

If you post a sign on public beach and leave it doesn't that make it trash? Can't anyone walk up and remove it?

[Smiling JOe]

actually, if the beach is nourished by WalCo, FEMA picks up most of the tab for future renourishment. (just like they are picking up most of the $7million tab to rebuild the County Pier at Pier Park.)

As for signs on the beach, if they are blocking emergency vehicles or seaturtles, they can be removed, just like umbrellas and chairs.

[TreeFrog]

actually, if the beach is nourished by WalCo, FEMA picks up most of the tab for future renourishment.


That's worth knowing, but IMHO it's still a waste of money that could be spent on real improvements that benefit the public at large. I haven't seen the entire SoWal beach, but the parts I have seen seem to have recovered nicely from the 2005 storms, thank you. I'd like to think the $50M could be spent more productively. Schools, roads, bridges, dune lake preservation, parks, fire stations, emergency services, replacing blue signs.

Or maybe to fund a secession from NoWal...:D

[Smiling JOe]

I, too, think the beaches would recover fine on their own if homes weren't built on top of the dune system, which has its own way of replenishing the beach as needed over time. FEMA spends billions of our taxes on things such as pumping sand onto the beach, only to watch it wash away with the next major storm, so that they can do it again. Just ridiculous, when there are real projects which need funding. Don't even get me started on the waste of FEMA.

[TreeFrog]

FEMA spends billions of our taxes on things such as pumping sand onto the beach, only to watch it wash away with the next major storm, so that they can do it again. Just ridiculous, when there are real projects which need funding. Don't even get me started on the waste of FEMA.

It's time to retreat into the "TreeFrog theory of selective taxation", the fantasy world in which I get to allocate how my federal tax dollars are spent. Many years we choose to fund highway infrastructure. This year, we split it equally between jet fuel for the Blue Angels and Medicare, which benefits my elderly relative.

[scooterbug44]

I think everyone just needs to respect Mother Nature (instead of spending millions to fight her) and enjoy the beach without getting all clenched and territorial.

[TreeFrog]

Meanwhile,Kimbug is worried whether she'll get arrested on her vacation. My advice to her is this:

Most of the jerks, excuse me - concerned property owners, who have been wanting to keep people off "their beach" are in Blue Mountain, which is near Sanctuary at Redfish. The rest are in Seaside. If you are going to be uncomfortable with that, I'd suggest looking for another rental location. There are a lot of other very nice vacation spots in SoWal.

[scooterbug44]

Anyone who gets run off a "private beach" can PM me. I've got a sympathetic friend with a parking space, a nearby public walkover, and an outdoor shower they can use if they bring their own soap/shampoo & towels.

2008: taking back the beach one family vacation at a time! http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/evilgrin/evilgrin0007.gif (http://www.ladies-shoes.biz/ladies-shoes/63889-1.html)

[kimbug]

Meanwhile,Kimbug is worried whether she'll get arrested on her vacation. My advice to her is this:

Most of the jerks, excuse me - concerned property owners, who have been wanting to keep people off "their beach" are in Blue Mountain, which is near Sanctuary at Redfish. The rest are in Seaside. If you are going to be uncomfortable with that, I'd suggest looking for another rental location. There are a lot of other very nice vacation spots in SoWal.


Anyone who gets run off a "private beach" can PM me. I've got a sympathetic friend with a parking space, a nearby public walkover, and an outdoor shower they can use if they bring their own soap/shampoo & towels.

2008: taking back the beach one family vacation at a time! http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/evilgrin/evilgrin0007.gif (http://www.ladies-shoes.biz/ladies-shoes/63889-1.html)

It's nice to know you all got my back! Apparently I won't get arrested if I quietly pack up my stuff and high tail it back to the Redfish Water Taxi if I'm politely asked to do so by the sheriff. That's according to the Sheriff that my brother-in-law talked to this afternoon. He was also told that they definitely don't come looking for trespassers. Well, I don't really want to take those chances. It's too bad because the property at Redfish is beautiful. I doubt with these issues they'll be selling many units for the millions they're looking for. So now I have to get our deposit back and get looking for something else. If anyone's got suggestions, we're a family of 7, preferring a 3 or 4 bdrm., with beach access and nice pool. Don't hesitate to pm me. Thanks again for the warnings.

[SHELLY]

It's nice to know you all got my back! Apparently I won't get arrested if I quietly pack up my stuff and high tail it back to the Redfish Water Taxi if I'm politely asked to do so by the sheriff. That's according to the Sheriff that my brother-in-law talked to this afternoon. He was also told that they definitely don't come looking for trespassers. Well, I don't really want to take those chances. It's too bad because the property at Redfish is beautiful. I doubt with these issues they'll be selling many units for the millions they're looking for. So now I have to get our deposit back and get looking for something else. If anyone's got suggestions, we're a family of 7, preferring a 3 or 4 bdrm., with beach access and nice pool. Don't hesitate to pm me. Thanks again for the warnings.

Ya know KB...for the record, I just want you to know I think the hoops you have to jump through to ensure you can enjoy the beaches in our area just sucks out loud! I regret the problems you're dealing with trying to find a place to vacation--it didn't used to be this way. I wish you the best of luck finding a perfect place by the beach where you feel "welcome"...even if it isn't here.

.

[scooterbug44]

Your vacation paradise IS still here, there are just some rotten apples spoiling the barrel so you have to be a little more informed when booking.

I personally plan on a long happy summer of dry sand beach time sans handcuffs and sheriff's deputies.

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

Ya know KB...for the record, I just want you to know I think the hoops you have to jump through to ensure you can enjoy the beaches in our area just sucks out loud! I regret the problems you're dealing with trying to find a place to vacation--it didn't used to be this way. I wish you the best of luck finding a perfect place by the beach where you feel "welcome"...even if it isn't here.

.
Now that's a statement I can fully agree with.

Before the RFVs stampeding in and around private residential areas, before the Sanctuary at Redfishes with no direct beach accesses, before the (almost) Nature Walks with their 100's of homes north of 30A, before the Seasides vs WaterColors, before the Rosemary Beaches vs everyone else, and especially the very large Village at Blue Mountain Beach north of 30A using (and claiming beach access) via the infamous beach access to nowhere next to the Retreat and the Inn at BMB, on and on......

Shelly, you are right.

I can't imagine what changed.

More people maybe?

Needless adverse reactions from those against gulf front owners protecting their property?

Oh, could it possibly be private property owners are just sick of those who feel automatically entitled to the beach because of the Daytona court case and their rediculous analogy of that long established overcrowded commercially obscene area known as the boardwalk and pier with our area (that I use to frequent and drive upon as a teenager)?:D

[edit: Keep in mind that the people who owned the beach in Daytona directly profitted by attracting the public. The more people they could get to walk on their beach, the more likely they would spend money at their establishment. I think there's a HUGE difference between that and let's say Blue Mountain Beach or anywhere else in Walton County.]

The developers slip these huge developments here in Walton County through planning and the BCC with no regard to who truly has rights to the (private) beaches. All private property rights be damned.

TDC's goal is to increase tourism. They have succeeded to a degree. Now they are beginning to run into a brick wall. TDC finaly (at least) acknowledged on their website that there are private beaches after the notorious arrests that were made.

Renourishment is their ONLY salvation....not for the beach's sake as one would logically think but for everyone else who needs INCREASED tourism to make a living (or their fortune). Steady-state does not seem to be an option.

Maybe, just maybe, Kim can see that there are two sides to every story. I'm one of the few speaking up for the other side as unpopular as it may be in mainstream.


FWIW, can't Kim take the boat across the lake and walk EAST a bit (away from BMB)? Will the development next door also run one off?

As far as going WEST a tad, are we saying that the huge house at the end of Blue Mtn Road will run people off the beach there as well? Where in the heck is the north south property line where a dune lake is located?

[kimbug]

Ya know KB...for the record, I just want you to know I think the hoops you have to jump through to ensure you can enjoy the beaches in our area just sucks out loud! I regret the problems you're dealing with trying to find a place to vacation--it didn't used to be this way. I wish you the best of luck finding a perfect place by the beach where you feel "welcome"...even if it isn't here.

.

Thank you. I'm sure I'll find a place. But just so you all know, I've always felt welcome while visiting sowal (well, maybe there are a few snobs in locations I won't mention) so I'd never want to stay at a place that could potentially spoil that. Our visit there will be grayt; I've never known it not to be!

[Smiling JOe]

Ya know KB...for the record, I just want you to know I think the hoops you have to jump through to ensure you can enjoy the beaches in our area just sucks out loud! I regret the problems you're dealing with trying to find a place to vacation--it didn't used to be this way. I wish you the best of luck finding a perfect place by the beach where you feel "welcome"...even if it isn't here.

.


Ditto!

Kimbug, I wouldn't want the potential hassle of being ran off the beach by the cops, either. It is a shame that people now try to claim something that has been used by the general public for decades. As more vacationers avoid the hassles, the property owners slowly gain a little ground.

[luvthebeach57]

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, we were considering staying at the Sanctuary at Redfish this summer like kimbug. However, the whole issue of beach access has me worried. Therefore, we will be staying at WaterSound instead. They have a whole mile of beach there. WaterSound has all the amenities, but none of the hassles of getting to the beach. I think it's a real shame that some homeowners feel they have a right to "own" the beach. As I mentioned previously, I've vacationed at beaches all over the US (including the Caribbean and Hawaii). I have never encountered any problems with private beaches before.

[scooterbug44]

AI've vacationed at beaches all over the US (including the Caribbean and Hawaii). I have never encountered any problems with private beaches before.

It's a recent issue for us too! :roll:

[Smiling JOe]

Again, I reiterate, the owners in Blue Mtn Beach S/D have not erected "Private Beach" signs. Thus far, they have only filed a deed for the property, which will give them grounds for the next steps, which COULD be, erecting signs and calling the police.

[Pirate]

Now that's a statement I can fully agree with.

Before the RFVs stampeding in and around private residential areas, before the Sanctuary at Redfishes with no direct beach accesses, before the (almost) Nature Walks with their 100's of homes north of 30A, before the Seasides vs WaterColors, before the Rosemary Beaches vs everyone else, and especially the very large Village at Blue Mountain Beach north of 30A using (and claiming beach access) via the infamous beach access to nowhere next to the Retreat and the Inn at BMB, on and on......

Shelly, you are right.

I can't imagine what changed.

More people maybe?

Needless adverse reactions from those against gulf front owners protecting their property?

Oh, could it possibly be private property owners are just sick of those who feel automatically entitled to the beach because of the Daytona court case and their rediculous analogy of that long established overcrowded commercially obscene area known as the boardwalk and pier with our area (that I use to frequent and drive upon as a teenager)?:D

[edit: Keep in mind that the people who owned the beach in Daytona directly profitted by attracting the public. The more people they could get to walk on their beach, the more likely they would spend money at their establishment. I think there's a HUGE difference between that and let's say Blue Mountain Beach or anywhere else in Walton County.]

The developers slip these huge developments here in Walton County through planning and the BCC with no regard to who truly has rights to the (private) beaches. All private property rights be damned.

TDC's goal is to increase tourism. They have succeeded to a degree. Now they are beginning to run into a brick wall. TDC finaly (at least) acknowledged on their website that there are private beaches after the notorious arrests that were made.

Renourishment is their ONLY salvation....not for the beach's sake as one would logically think but for everyone else who needs INCREASED tourism to make a living (or their fortune). Steady-state does not seem to be an option.

Maybe, just maybe, Kim can see that there are two sides to every story. I'm one of the few speaking up for the other side as unpopular as it may be in mainstream.


FWIW, can't Kim take the boat across the lake and walk EAST a bit (away from BMB)? Will the development next door also run one off?

As far as going WEST a tad, are we saying that the huge house at the end of Blue Mtn Road will run people off the beach there as well? Where in the heck is the north south property line where a dune lake is located?

Tear down all the condos and revert to SFH. That will keep the riff-raff out.:biggrin:

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, we were considering staying at the Sanctuary at Redfish this summer like kimbug. However, the whole issue of beach access has me worried. Therefore, we will be staying at WaterSound instead. They have a whole mile of beach there. WaterSound has all the amenities, but none of the hassles of getting to the beach. I think it's a real shame that some homeowners feel they have a right to "own" the beach. As I mentioned previously, I've vacationed at beaches all over the US (including the Caribbean and Hawaii). I have never encountered any problems with private beaches before.
Is the WaterSound beach area where you will be staying private? Assuming yes, then aren't you being a bit hypocritical?

[sowalgayboi]

Is the WaterSound beach area where you will be staying private? Assuming yes, then aren't you being a bit hypocritical?

I don't think they have the issue of posting signs, arguing with