Beach contamination in Seagrove

[ecopal]

This is a picture taken today(12Dec05) of dark sand being placed on beach (in front of several homes on Montgomery Street, Seagrove Beach between Greenwood Ave. and Seagrove Villas ). This is taken with a telephoto from the Greenwood Ave. public access.

It shows a contrast between the natural white beach sand and the trucked in dark sand. The darkest sand next to the excavator was brought in today and is much darker because it probably has some moisture content. The dark sand in the foreground has been there over a month. The white sand behind the excavator was the appropriate sand brought in by Seagrove Villas to cover their seawall.

This has been an on going isssue for over a month. The county has been contacted several times yet this dumping of dark sand continues. Once this foreign sand mixes with the natural pure white beach sand the beach is contaminated forever.

Please go take a look for yourself.

[TreeFrog]

Who is having the sand trucked in?

[kurt]

What County employee have you talked to?

Has code enforcement approved a sample of the sand in question? If they have not been contacted you need to make sure that they go to the site and sample the sand. They should have been given a sample by the contractor before dumping. You need to make sure that the sample they were given and the actual sand that is dumped are the same.

[Donna]

The Walton County Commissioner for our district should be contacted about this. She will see that something is done. Her name is Cindy Meadows and she lives in South Walton. You can contact her through the Walton County Board of County Commissioners in DeFuniak Springs. I am seeing Cindy in a little more than a week, when we are at Grayton, and I will mention this to her. It always helps when an elected official has as many contacts as possible and as soon as possible, however.

[SoWalSally]

The Walton County Commissioner for our district should be contacted about this. She will see that something is done. Her name is Cindy Meadows and she lives in South Walton. You can contact her through the Walton County Board of County Commissioners in DeFuniak Springs. I am seeing Cindy in a little more than a week, when we are at Grayton, and I will mention this to her. It always helps when an elected official has as many contacts as possible and as soon as possible, however.

I bleieve that Seagrove Beach is Scott Brannon's District one.

[Smiling JOe]

I bleieve that Seagrove Beach is Scott Brannon's District one.

I think you are correct. Good luck!

Commissioner Scott Brannon
19367 U.S. Hwy 331 S Freeport, FL 32439

Tel: (850) 835-4860

Fax: (850) 835-4836

E-mail: brascott@co.walton.fl.us

http://www.co.walton.fl.us/commissioners/Commissioner%20Scott%20Brannon.jpg

Photos (http://www.co.walton.fl.us/default.asp?id=23) of your Commissioners. (I think they need to hire Kurt to take better photos. These are ridiculously terrible.)

[ecopal]

Thanks for your interest.

I have contacted the county several times over the last month. It will obviously take more than calls and emails from just me.

Go take a look and make your own judgement . They have to hear from more concerned citizens.

Below are local news media, and county and state contacts.
I have already contacted most of them plus my county commissioner.

COUNTY

Brad Pickel, TDC Director Of Beach Management,
<bpickel@beachesofsouthwalton.com>, (850) 267-1216.

Pat Blackshear, Director of Planning and Development,
<blapat@co.walton.fl.us>, (850) 267-1955.

Kevin Hargett, Code Enforcement Coordinator, Code Enforcement Office,
<harkevin@co.walton.fl.us>, (850) 622-0564.



STATE AND FEDERAL
Tony McNeal with DEP. <tony.mcneal@dep.state.fl.us> 850-921-7745.

Lorna Patrick, U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service, <lorna_patrick@fws.gov> 850-769-0552 ext.229.

Jim Martinello, DEP Enforcement & Compliance officer. <James.Martinello@dep.state.fl.us> 850-414-7772.


NEWS MEDIA

Gwen Break, Editor, The Walton Sun, <sunnews@link.freedom.com> (850)267-4555.

Dotty Nist, Reporter, The Beach Breeze, <breeze@dfsi.net>, (850) 231-0918.

Chris Mitchell: 850-832-9830 channel 13 WMBB/ABC Panama City reporter.

[lost in sowal]

Although Brad Pickle is helpful on many issues regarding the beach he is only responsible for the County's beach accesses, nourishment, etc. He has no regulatory or enforcement abilities regarding individual actions- those are planning and code enforcement. As Kurt said, Code Enforcement is who needs to be contacted.

[ecopal]

Code Enforcement has been contacted and they gave a very interesting summary of the situation.

The county apparently was issuing permits to use the low quality 6.2 grade sand (dark sand) prior to August 1 2005. The owners of the Gulf front property on Montgomery street apparently got approval from the county prior to the August 1 2005 deadline. Since August 1 the requirement is upgraded to a better 7.2 grade sand. In either situation the lower grade sand has to be covered with a three feet layer of the the whiter grade 8.1 sand.

So it is apparently the position of the Montgomery Street Gulf front owners that they can use the poorer grade sand because they are "grandfathered" in before the rule change . This is loosely analogous to the county allowing all of us long time residents to ignore the new HWY 98 stop lights because we were "grandfathered in". Such faulty reasoning would result in harm to others in both situations.

This low grade dark sand will contaminate the natural beach sand forever. Even though it is suppose to be covered with 3 feet of white sand the next time we get a storm it will all be mixed together. This will then contaminate the beach all along the shore-particularly to the west such as Seaside. This is a "dirty" shame because Seaside has been very careful not to contaminate their beach with low quality sand.

We all need to contact the county and tell them this is not acceptable

[Smiling JOe]

Code Enforcement has been contacted and they gave a very interesting summary of the situation.

The county apparently was issuing permits to use the low quality 6.2 grade sand (dark sand) prior to August 1 2005. The owners of the Gulf front property on Montgomery street apparently got approval from the county prior to the August 1 2005 deadline. Since August 1 the requirement is upgraded to a better 7.2 grade sand. In either situation the lower grade sand has to be covered with a three feet layer of the the whiter grade 8.1 sand.

So it is apparently the position of the Montgomery Street Gulf front owners that they can use the poorer grade sand because they are "grandfathered" in before the rule change . This is loosely analogous to the county allowing all of us long time residents to ignore the new HWY 98 stop lights because we were "grandfathered in". Such faulty reasoning would result in harm to others in both situations.

This low grade dark sand will contaminate the natural beach sand forever. Even though it is suppose to be covered with 3 feet of white sand the next time we get a storm it will all be mixed together. This will then contaminate the beach all along the shore-particularly to the west such as Seaside. This is a "dirty" shame because Seaside has been very careful not to contaminate their beach with low quality sand.

We all need to contact the county and tell them this is not acceptable

I don't know with whom you spoke, but I think they are incorrect regarding the information they gave you. That is not what I remember the County Commissioners ruling. They said that any new sand brought in would have to meet the new standards of whiteness. They also said that people who had already filled with the darker sand that met the old standards, but not the new, would have to be removed. There was a big debate about this and Commissioner Ro Cuchens was very scared that he would have to pay for it, since he had several jobs which he used the darker sand. The decision, as I remember, was that since the County changed the standards, the County would pay for the removal.

If what you state is true regarding the response from the Code Enforcement, the county commissioners should be contacted. FYI- the commissioner for that district is Chairman Scott Brannon, and he was conveniently absent from that meeting so he may not be as informed as Comm Meadows, or Comm Jones, who actually make the motion which was approved.

[ecopal]

I hope the county is not going to have to pay for its removal-this sand has been deposited in an ongoing basis for over the last 2 months in front of these homes on Montgomery Street.

[Smiling JOe]

I hope the county is not going to have to pay for its removal-this sand has been deposited in an ongoing basis for over the last 2 months in front of these homes on Montgomery Street.

The County will not pay for it if it was deposited after their ruling on the sand color.

[Smiling JOe]

So I had to check it out for myself today. That dirt is brown as topsoil. I took some photos and ran out of time to meet with the right people today. Perhaps in the morning.

Here are some of the photos I took showing more of what ecopal's photo clearly shows.

http://sowal.com/bb/gallery/files/2/1/6/PC110012.JPG


http://sowal.com/bb/gallery/files/2/1/6/PC110010.JPG


http://sowal.com/bb/gallery/files/2/1/6/PC110005.JPG


http://sowal.com/bb/gallery/files/2/1/6/PC110004.JPG

[ecopal]

Excellent pics!
Looks like the sand is getting darker-must be scrapings from the bottom of the pit.

Below is a picture of excavation on the beach just a block to the west(on the beach at the intersection of 30A and 395) of where SJ took his pics. They are getting ready to coverup up this mess with new sand being trucked in so if you want to take a peek go tomorrow.
(click on it to make larger)

[Richard]

County engineer Greg Graham was very clear on this issue back when we were having problems with all the red sand being brought onto Blue Mountain Beach.

The county did initially approve 6.2 sand. Many people got approval. The standard was later raised because of all the abuse of the 6.2 standard. Developers were not even meeting that low standard. Graham stated all new sand brought onto the beach had to be 7.2 or greater. He said the only thing that was grandfathered was what was already on the beach. Any new sand brought to the beach had to comply.

Graham makes the determination as to what is approved and what is not, not Code Enforcement. Code Enforcement is there to enforce Greg's ruling. I too question Code Enforcement's interpretation of the situation and suggest Greg Graham be contacted about this apparent abuse of the standard.

[Beach Runner]

Where's the best public beach access that's open to go and see this and other examples of seawalls? I can only "beach run" so far, so I resort to the bike paths for longer distances.

[ecopal]

Seagrove Villas has a new walkover-but it is private property.
If you use that walkover the dirty sand will be on your left-east and the excavation into the beach will be down a block on our right/west.

If you want to go down a public access you can use the Andalussa street access then walk or run west for a couple blocks.

[Smiling JOe]

...
The county did initially approve 6.2 sand. Many people got approval. The standard was later raised because of all the abuse of the 6.2 standard. Developers were not even meeting that low standard. Graham stated all new sand brought onto the beach had to be 7.2 or greater. He said the only thing that was grandfathered was what was already on the beach. Any new sand brought to the beach had to comply.
...]

Thanks for refreshing my memory Richard.
To clarify Richard's statement in bold above:
Not all sand that was on the beach was grandfathered. That which was already there was still required to be "retested" (and not by Commissioner Roe Cuchens) and meet the minimum old 6.2 standard or be removed. Hence the removal of the red sand in BMB.

I do not have the color chart, but I guarantee you that the topsoil colored dirt being dumped yesterday and days prior does not even meet the old 6.2 requirement. IMHO, Gary seems to be very weak when it comes to being pressured from the Commissioners. I wonder if Commissioner Roe Cuchens was hired for these jobs in Seagrove too.:idontno:

[PEARL]

Hi all,
This is my first post, but I read this forum all the time. As for the brown sand at Seagrove, it's very disturbing to me. These people are obviously trying to get away with something they know is wrong. I've emailed Commisioner Scott Brannon, and code enforcement officer Kevin Hargett. What else can we do? Has anyone contacted the newspapers?

[yippie]

That doesn't look like sand at all. It looks like dirt. This must be coming from the sod farm in Freeport. The owner stated several months ago that he could "wash" the sand. Commissioners bought it. They dumped a bunch of the dark sand in Miramar Beach right after Dennis. I don't think it was ever removed.

[EZ4144]

The darker sand will be bleached by the sun and anyway it will be covered with the whiter sand by the owners. The county is right to leave it up to the owners to fix things like after Opal.

[TooFarTampa]

The darker sand will be bleached by the sun

Oh, yes. And I'm sure the sun will turn it into fine bits of quartz too! :roll:

Sorry, but you are an example of why the county NEEDS to regulate these things.

[Smiling JOe]

The darker sand will be bleached by the sun and anyway it will be covered with the whiter sand by the owners. The county is right to leave it up to the owners to fix things like after Opal.Yes, the homeowners are supposed to top it off with even whiter sand, but all of that sand and the dirt underneath will be washed onto the beaches in June. By the way, it will not bleach to be white in the Sunshine.

[SHELLY]

Now that all the sand and dirt has been dumped--one can't unring that bell. It would be like picking fly poop out of pepper. Before dawn today, there's a hell of a storm making its way along the coast that will mix the colors up pretty good.

The Law of SoWal: When comes down to sand and money--green will ALWAYS trump white.

[yippie]

The darker sand will be bleached by the sun and anyway it will be covered with the whiter sand by the owners. The county is right to leave it up to the owners to fix things like after Opal.

I lived here througth Opal. You cannot compare the two. This did not happend after Opal. No dirt was dumped on the beach. Plus, this erosion was not as prevelant.

You just cannot compare this year to Opal. Plus, Money was not the color of Brown then.

[Paula]

Those photos really look nasty. Why wouldn't the county commissioners (other than one) take this seriously and enforce it? Where does the TDC stand on this? I know this is a touchy statement, but if the sand color standard isn't enforced by officials, is there any case for a lawsuit to prevent people from ignoring the code and damaging county property by putting in darker sand? As far as I know, I can't do anything to my home that damages the homes/property next door or the town property.

[Smiling JOe]

Those photos really look nasty. Why wouldn't the county commissioners (other than one) take this seriously and enforce it? Where does the TDC stand on this? I know this is a touchy statement, but if the sand color standard isn't enforced by officials, is there any case for a lawsuit to prevent people from ignoring the code and damaging county property by putting in darker sand? As far as I know, I can't do anything to my home that damages the homes/property next door or the town property.

The County Commissioners say that it is not there duty to monitor the sand. They simple set the rules. As for a lawsuit for something that may happen in the future, I have not heard of suing for damages prior to the damage occuring.

[dbuck]

Looks like dirt from Kentucky.

[TooFarTampa]

Oh SJ I think the damage is done.

Isn't it the commissioners' job to make sure that code enforcement does its job? :bang: :bang: :bang:

[STL Don]

Oh SJ I think the damage is done.

Isn't it the commissioners' job to make sure that code enforcement does its job? :bang: :bang: :bang:
Agree with the previous comments--we're screwed. By the way, you don't sue for damages, since damages would be an inadequate remedy. You bring an action in equity, seeking a temporary restraining order or injunction.

[TooFarTampa]

Agree with the previous comments--we're screwed. By the way, you don't sue for damages, since damages would be an inadequate remedy. You bring an action in equity, seeking a temporary restraining order or injunction.

Exactly. It seems the SWCC is focused on wetlands, but would they file for an injunction on these grounds? Do their people read this board? I'd love to join the organization but feel like I'm too far away to get really involved. I like what they stand for though.

I wonder what the dirt looks like now that the storm has moved through.

[Smiling JOe]

Oh SJ I think the damage is done.

Isn't it the commissioners' job to make sure that code enforcement does its job? :bang: :bang: :bang:

Technically speaking, the dirt is on private property because the owner owns to the mean high water mark, so the damage is not done to the County's property.

I am uncertain who is responsible for ensuring that code enforcement does its job. I need to see an organizational chart.

[Smiling JOe]

Exactly. It seems the SWCC is focused on wetlands, but would they file for an injunction on these grounds? Do their people read this board? I'd love to join the organization but feel like I'm too far away to get really involved. I like what they stand for though.

I wonder what the dirt looks like now that the storm has moved through.

The storm probably did not affect it too much -- not enough wave action or wind. I will find out later this morning.

[TooFarTampa]

The storm probably did not affect it too much -- not enough wave action or wind. I will find out later this morning.

SJ you are the best! I want to elect you Mayor of SoWal. I think we need one. :clap_1:

[Smiling JOe]

SJ you are the best! I want to elect you Mayor of SoWal. I think we need one. :clap_1:I can do more without being in public office than I can in public office, but thanks just the same.

[Paula]

Once the dirty sand gets on someone else's property, though, knowing full well that that will happen someday, then is the person who put the brown sand in responsible? Knowing that one is responsible for future consequences of current actions can be a motivator if indeed there are consequences. No consequences often leads to no motivation to do the right thing in some cases (not all cases, of course -- most people along 30A seem to be trying to do the right thing for others and the environment, now and for the future? We should be sure to show appreciation to the gulf front owners who are carefully doing the right thing. Does Smiling Joe, Kurt or others have photos of people making wise and thoughtful decisions? Those would be nice to see and celebrate.

[Miss Kitty]

Technically speaking, the dirt is on private property because the owner owns to the mean high water mark, so the damage is not done to the County's property.

I am uncertain who is responsible for ensuring that code enforcement does its job. I need to see an organizational chart.

I guess personal/community responsibility is out of the question here? Our country and county are suffering from this disease...lack of personal/community responsibility. I think it is time to publish property owners names that continue to ruin the beach. My heart is breaking.

[Paula]

And also provide good citizen recognition for people who maintain the beaches and their property in ways that enhance the greater good. It takes a lot of courage and good will for someone to go the extra mile and do what's right even when it costs them more money personally, especially when their property is at risk. I assume some/many people are figuring out how to protect their homes and thoughtfully do the right thing for the community and their neighbors at the same time. And to them we are all thankful!

[Smiling JOe]

Because I have been busy with some other things this morning, I sent my friend on a mission. He took photos and sand samples, and had a meeting with Greg Graham, the County's Civil Engineer who is in charge of color-testing of sand being added to the beach.

The following is based on my conversation with my friend. His understanding is that the dark sand dumped in Seagrove, as recently as yesterday, measures a 6.2 and it should be 7.2 per County Commissioners' ruling from the Blue Mtn Beach Special Mtg. The sand samples brought in today were not tested, but Mr Graham states that it appears to be the same color as the samples brought in yesterday, which rated 6.2 (the higher the color, the whiter the sand). When Mr Graham was asked why they are being allowed to add sand below the minimum standards, he responded in a way that let my friend believe that he was being poked and prodded by higher-ups in the County.

Mr. Graham states that at the meeting where the the 7.2 minimum rating was decided, he was confused on what the answer was. I was at the meeting, and I it sounded crystal clear to me. I remember the 7.2 minimum requirement being for all new dirt brought in from that day forward. Mr. Graham states that he was confused, and after meeting with Pat Blackshear, they thought that any projects which had already began could bring in the darker dirt meeting only the 6.2 level. Therefore, they told the people already under contract with a dirt man, that they could use the old 6.2 min. requirements since they had already started. At that time, the minutes from the meeting had not been reviewed, approved, nor dismissed, so they were in the dark if they did not understand the Commissioners' ruling at the meeting. Greg Graham stated to my friend that he did not read the minutes from the meeting until Code Enforcement brought it to his attention in the recent past. Mr Graham and Pat Blackshear now understood the minutes to read just as I heard and understood at the meeting. The problem is that they have told the contractors and homeowners that they could place the 6.2 min dirt on the beach. Now they know that is not what the Commissioners ruled. How do they go back and tell people that they have to remove the dirt? They are still going to allow any Gulf-front owner who began their work prior to the Blue Mtn Beach Special Mtg to keep illegally dumping the darker sand. According to Mr Graham, he and Pat Blackshear went to Pat's boss and several County Commissioners, including Cindy Meadows, and their response was, if they started before the change in minimum standards to the 7.2, they could continue with the jobs. Mr Graham said that he thought they would have been done with these jobs long ago, so he was suprised to see the darker sand being brought onto Seagrove as recently as yesterday. My friend informed him that there will likely be more coming just down the beach where the massive seawall is being installed to the west of the Seagrove Villas. My friend also asked him why he could not now tell all dirt contractors and homeowners that since they now understand the law to be different from what he was telling them, any new sand delivered from this day forward would have to meet the new 7.2 minimum requirement. He did not have a response, other than the people told him if the owners had started before the Blue Mtn Beach Mtg, they could continue.

It sounds like Mr Graham is being beaten up on by the higher ups. He is very fearful that this illegal dumping in Seagrove could blow up in his face, just as it did a few months back at the Blue Mtn Beach mtg. He took a severe beating from both sides.

That is today's report. My friend is sending me photos of that area from earlier today, and I will post them when I receive them.

[Smiling JOe]

http://sowal.com/bb/gallery/files/2/1/6/PC130006.JPG

New photos just arrived. Click here (http://www.sowal.com/bb/gallery/browseimages.php?c=5&userid=216) to see more.:whack:

[kathydwells]

Well, at least it looks like my little piece of paradise..Seagrove Villa's has used the correct color sand to cover their "unwanted" seawall. And the walkover looks great. Thanks for the pics SJ!!!!

[dbuck]

I have a question. Will the color of the sand change the color of the water? I hope this isn't a stupid question, just wondering. :idontno:

[Paula]

Thanks Smiling Joe for the photos. It's so interesting to see how people right next door to each other are using different colored sand. Clearly, everyone had the option to use light sand, but only some chose to do it. And the one with the sea oats planted on the light sand looks so much better than the darker sand next to it. Well, maybe the county will get clear rules and enforcement in place (and maybe a plan to have all dune rebuilding by owners be consistent) by the next time a storm comes and takes the dunes away. There should be no surprises the next time around and people now have time to plan ahead. And we'll learn first-hand the consequences of the different sea wall and sand strategies on the beach and the color of the ocean.

[Smiling JOe]

I have a question. Will the color of the sand change the color of the water? I hope this isn't a stupid question, just wondering. :idontno:
Yours is not a stupid question, but a very good one. I do not know the answer. My guess is that if the color of sand on the beach changes, the water color would NOT change. My understanding is that the water color we presently have is due to having a lack of rivers flowing into the Gulf in this area. I know depth of the water and water clarity both play a vital role in water color. I do not think sand color is a factor, but again, this is only my guess.

[kurt]

Yours is not a stupid question, but a very good one. I do not know the answer. My guess is that if the color of sand on the beach changes, the water color would NOT change. My understanding is that the water color we presently have is due to having a lack of rivers flowing into the Gulf in this area. I know depth of the water and water clarity both play a vital role in water color. I do not think sand color is a factor, but again, this is only my guess.

If there were dark sand on the bottom it would change the appearance of the water, just like different colored swimming pools look different. But the water itself wouldn't change unless the bottom was churned up.

[Miss Kitty]

If there were dark sand on the bottom it would change the appearance of the water, just like different colored swimming pools look different. But the water itself wouldn't change unless the bottom was churned up.

Good response. If I had wanted dark sand and water colors, I could have just stayed in Texas.

We have been ROYALLY screwed. I have one question...are these homeowners even aware of the sand color being placed in front of their houses?? If so, I vote we hang them all from the crane at Seaside and smack them like pinatas. These are not the kind of people I want as my neighbors. Keep a look out at WC, call it what you want...but if ONE grain of dubious colored sand arrives, I will be on the next plane out of here and will personally attempt to stop it! I am that mad!!! This is criminal.

P.S. dbuck...there are never any DUMB questions! Keep asking!

[Smiling JOe]

Good response. If I had wanted dark sand and water colors, I could have just stayed in Texas.

We have been ROYALLY screwed. I have one question...are these homeowners even aware of the sand color being placed in front of their houses?? If so, I vote we hang them all from the crane at Seaside and smack them like pinatas. These are not the kind of people I want as my neighbors. Keep a look out at WC, call it what you want...but if ONE grain of dubious colored sand arrives, I will be on the next plane out of here and will personally attempt to stop it! I am that mad!!! This is criminal.

P.S. dbuck...there are never any DUMB questions! Keep asking!
Of these five or six houses in violation in Seagrove, I believe two are rentals and one of the others recently sold according to the sign in the front yard. One house, next to the Greenwood Access has not placed any fill and their back porch is falling. I think as much as they are to blame, so are people at the County.

[peaboy]

When this same situation occured in Blue Mountain Beach, several members of that community and (the entire community for that matter) petitioned the Commissioners for an emergency BCC meeting. After numerous emails and direct phone calls, an emergency meeting was called.

It was during this emergency meeting that the now famous "Brown Mountain Beach" incident set the standards for which these contractors and home owners must obey. The standars were restored to higher levels and it is very clearly stated in the minutes from that meeting.

I can only urge you all to contact the commssioners on a daily basis, flood them with phone calls, emails and anything else including media coverage to get their attention. We had news 13 and channel 7 come to Blue Mountain, and we were very successful. Ride them hard until they call an emergency meeting and get the results that are once again"clearly stated" in the minutes of the past meetings.

Good luck. I will also contact them

[ecopal]

Good work SJ.
Peaboy is right-call your commissioners and also call DEP -.

This sand should be removed before it can contaminate the beach even more!

Tony McNeal with DEP. <tony.mcneal@dep.state.fl.us> 850-921-7745.

Jim Martinello, DEP Enforcement & Compliance officer.
<James.Martinello@dep.state.fl.us> 850-414-7772.

Rick Harter , rick.harter@dep.state.fl.us 850-921-7746

Ask for DEP to come and officially test the sand. If they determine that the dark sand is "not beach compatible material" they can order the county to have it removed.

[Paula]

I sent an email to the email addresses above, as well as to county commissioner Scott Brannon. The email was titled:

Illegal dark brown sand imported to white sand beaches in South Walton

I hope this helps. Is there anyone else we should be contacting?

I didn't send the email to the media recommendations yet. Do we really want the media involved? If so, I'm happy to email them as well.

[aquaticbiology]

Screwed is screwed, and the residents and visitors have all been 'screwed blue and tatooed', let down by the very government that is supposed to protect them, but what else is new.

Money talks and obviously it talked to the right people. Aside: What's the point in having meetings when they will just do what they want anyway and pretend to be 'confused'?

If it bothers you too much, pick another spot to live (and make a pile via caveat emptor once they put the thin layer of white sand to cover it), or pick a different spot to vacation, that has not been spoiled.

The water may get a little muddy from time to time, as the particulates (what makes the dirt brown) wash down with a lot of rainfall (some of which has been happening already from the yellow-brownish stains near the water in the picture), but the water won't change color.

Combatting dune slump is only required when buildings have been built on the first-line dune complex, and so you are eventually going to get ugly beaches, either from dark fill sand used to shore up crumbling structures or true 'beach houses' when they fall in as the dune slumps back down from vertical. BTW, the dune will only be stable if they fill it back to the pre-existing shape - this is all just wasted effort anyway.

Money has always talked in south walton, and it probably will continue to do so for whatever time we have left.


agggg - mb451? I'm in some sort of time warp! Actually, I bet it's because I'm on the ancient laptop since we're visiting family in Indianapolis! (Hi Ya'll!)

[peaboy]

In Blue Mountain Beach, it was actually determined that the "sand" was actually Red Clay. It was explained to me that this substance was of a whole different molecular structure than the white sand that was called for. The problems with having this type of substance goes far beyound the color of our beaches.

If the substance is of another material than the life forms that utalize it will not be able to. This will have negative impacts on the entire ecosystem. We should not feel so pompus to only look at the impact of color and bad asthetics for us humans. The living being of this ecosystem should come first.

Yes, get the media involved. Chris Mitchell with Cahnnel 13 did a good job of getting this Blue Mountain Beach issue the attention that it needed.

[PEIGuy]

How does the beach look in front of Emerald Hill...
any information or photos would be much appreciated!
Thanks...

[ecopal]

You can help in the effort to protect our beautiful yet vulnerable coastal environment even if you are not living here. The SWCC is actively involved in helping protecting our unique snow white sand beaches from incompatible dark sand.

Some of us have spent many hours over the last few months investigating and making contacts just on this particular dark sand problem at Montgomery Street.

The SWCC is an organization of volunteer residents, business owners, property owners, workers and neighborhood groups whose mission is to preserve, protect and enhance the quality of life and natural environment of South Walton County.

The SWCC is the primary citizen watchdog organization in the county and since their in inception in 1995 they have been effective in protecting our county’s natural beauty and vulnerable environment. They help keep me informed of what is happening so that I can optimize my contribution as a Walton county citizen.

Walton county is still in the develpment phase and the decisions made now will affect generations . The SWCC needs your involvement and assistance. Only you can make sure that SWCC has the adequate resources to protect our great coastal area.

http://www.southwaltoncc.org/

[Miss Kitty]

Thanks. I will join up immediately. It will help me, as an absentee property owner, to have another connection to South Walton.

[Smiling JOe]

How does the beach look in front of Emerald Hill...
any information or photos would be much appreciated!
Thanks...
http://sowal.com/bb/gallery/files/2/1/6/PB300017.JPG

Taken on Dec 02 2005. I am pretty certain this is the beach in front of Emerald Hill Condos. Here (http://www.sowal.com/bb/gallery/browseimages.php?do=browseimages&c=5&userid=216&page=2) are a few other shots from that area. Look for the ones entitled Seagrove Dec 02 2005.:D

[TooFarTampa]

Thanks. I will join up immediately. It will help me, as an absentee property owner, to have another connection to South Walton.

I'm following in Miss Kitty's footsteps! Thank you for the info ecopal!

[CastlesOfSand]

I'm following in Miss Kitty's footsteps! Thank you for the info ecopal!

Me too, that is horrible. Do we have to keep going throught this sand issue? I thought we had this settled. Crapola!

[Paula]

SJ:

Thanks for the ongoing photos. Have any of these photos showing dark sand been sent to the commissioners and others who are supposed to be enforcing the codes for light sand? I don't want to send them because they're not mine to send (but I would otherwise). The contrast between the muddy dark brown sand and the natural sand on our beaches is so clear. Thanks.

[Smiling JOe]

SJ:

Thanks for the ongoing photos. Have any of these photos showing dark sand been sent to the commissioners and others who are supposed to be enforcing the codes for light sand? I don't want to send them because they're not mine to send (but I would otherwise). The contrast between the muddy dark brown sand and the natural sand on our beaches is so clear. Thanks.

Feel free to use any photos which I post, as long as it is not for monetary gain. My friend who took those photos in Seagrove does not mind either.

It is my understanding that the Commissioners, Greg Graham (in charge of testing sand color), and Code Enforcement are aware of the below standard illegal sand being dumped on the dunes, but the more voices and emails sent, the better the message is understood. From what Mr Graham told my friend, the Commissioners are knowingly allowing the rules which they established to be broken. The Commissioners do not enforce the rules, but they do make them. In this case, they are telling Code Enforcement to allow the rules which they set to be broken. Shame, shame, shame.

I think the emails and phone calls should be directed to the DEP (see email addresses provided by ecopal) as well as every Walton County Commisssioner. Feel free to use the photos which I post(ed). I also have 3 or 4 sand samples taken two days ago, if needed.

[SoWalSally]

From Walton Sun

Residents near the Greenwood Beach access are concerned with the use of dark sand in beach and dune restoration.
Prior to Aug. 1, the Walton Board of County Commissioners allowed a darker sand graded at 6.2 to be used in restoration projects. After complaints from residents, the standard was raised to 7.2 graded sand which then has to be capped with at least three feet of 8.1 white grade beach sand so none of the dark sand will show.
One project in the Greenwood Beach area is currently using the lower grade, darker sand and residents are worried about the darker degradation of the iconic white sand.
Kevin Hargett, code enforcement coordinator said the project was contracted out before the Aug. 1 deadline but didn’t start until recently so.
The dark sand looks worse than it is, said Hargett. He said it will whiten over time as moisture dries up and the sun takes color out of it. The dark sand will be topped off with three feet of white beach sand.
Owl’s Head Sod Farm in Freeport sells white beach grade sand for $14 a cubic yard. One cubic yard weighs around 2,200 pounds. The tan sand goes for $12 a cubic yard, said Brad Simpson, Owl’s Head business manager.
After the white sand is mined, it is washed and cleaned of all the dirt, rocks and other debris.
“When we mine it is already fairly white,” Simpson said. “We wash it and filter it to get out the rock particles and clean the dirt out of it.”
The use of dark sand still has some residents worried.
“It still is not appropriate sand,” Seagrove resident Richard Butela said. “Once that sand mixes with the white sand after the next storm you can’t get it out.”

[tuck]

How are the commissoners going to enforce these laws when one of their own is the one breaking them? Wasn't it obvious during the meetings about blue mountain beach that the illegal dirt was the result of Commissioner Cuchens?

Is his crew working on the houses at Seagrove that have the dark sand. If so will our other commissioners enforce the rules?

As for the response by the code enforcement officer, this is not what the commissioners stated in he meetings. There should not be any "grandfathering" of this crap.

[Paula]

Thanks, SJ. The photos make the point about the dark sand very well. Of course, I would never use anyone's photos for monetary gain.

[Smiling JOe]

Has anyone received a reply from the County Commissioners?

[Rita]

You can help in the effort to protect our beautiful yet vulnerable coastal environment even if you are not living here. The SWCC is actively involved in helping protecting our unique snow white sand beaches from incompatible dark sand.

Some of us have spent many hours over the last few months investigating and making contacts just on this particular dark sand problem at Montgomery Street.

The SWCC is an organization of volunteer residents, business owners, property owners, workers and neighborhood groups whose mission is to preserve, protect and enhance the quality of life and natural environment of South Walton County.

The SWCC is the primary citizen watchdog organization in the county and since their in inception in 1995 they have been effective in protecting our county’s natural beauty and vulnerable environment. They help keep me informed of what is happening so that I can optimize my contribution as a Walton county citizen.

Walton county is still in the develpment phase and the decisions made now will affect generations . The SWCC needs your involvement and assistance. Only you can make sure that SWCC has the adequate resources to protect our great coastal area.

http://www.southwaltoncc.org/

Thanks for the link and info ecopal. We also will join.

[SHELLY]

Does anyone really believe that those beach$ide re$ident$ are going to immediately $top dumping the dark $and they're u$ing to $hore up their home$, dig it all up, and replace it with more co$tly white $and?? And does anyone really believe that in the future when (not if) more $and need$ to be replaced that lawyer$ hired by the property owner$ aren't going to point to the current dark $and people and $ay the county ha$ $et a precedent for emergency $and replacement?

As overdevelopment continues to make its "mark" on the panhandle, an old saying keeps coming to mind: "If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards."

[CastlesOfSand]

Does anyone really believe that those beach$ide re$ident$ are going to immediately $top dumping the dark $and they're u$ing to $hore up their home$, dig it all up, and replace it with more co$tly white $and?? And does anyone really believe that in the future when (not if) more $and need$ to be replaced that lawyer$ hired by the property owner$ aren't going to point to the current dark $and people and $ay the county ha$ $et a precedent for emergency $and replacement?

As overdevelopment continues to make its "mark" on the panhandle, an old saying keeps coming to mind: "If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards."

Thi$ Really pi$$ e$ me off..... that it all come$ down to Ca$h in$tead of Brain$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$orry.

[goodwitch58]

Please do not hesitate to get the media involved...we would not have gotten the traffic lights at those dangerous intersections, the top soil standards (which the CCs are not conveniently ignoring), or the stop work order on the development at Eden, without the pressure brought by letters, emails, a protest by members of the public :cool: (complete with signs) and yes, the news media.

Nothing speaks louder than the public standing up to the Commissioners and we need the media to record and report it. Each Commissioner has to be reelected; they respond to media reports because of the fear of voters next time an election comes up.

[tuck]

The media is the way to go. It gets the information out to not only our local folk, but our neighbors to the east and west. The DEP will be forced to respond if the media gets the news out for us.

Last month in the Daily News from FWB, an article appeared with the investigation into Ro Cuchens and his wrong doings at our beaches. Maybe that reporter would like to see this situation in Seagrove and compare it to Blue Mtn. It would be interesting to see the connection if in deed the same contractor (commissioner) is behind it.

The more news coverage the greater the possibility to get this dark stuff removed from the beach

[peaboy]

yes, we had great results in Blue Mountain Beach with the attention of Channel 13 news. Chris Mitchell is the contact that should be notified of this problem in Seagrove.

[ecopal]

The following excerpt from the Board of County Commisssioner meeting minutes states unequivocally that any sand less than the 7.2 standard placed after August 1, 2005 has to be removed at homeowners or contractors expense.

The sand just tested by the county last week that was dumped after August 1 ( witnesses report seeing some dumped last week) was tested at 6.2 (at best after being microwaved to maximally dry it out) and clearly does not meet the 7.2 standard.

an excerpt from Walton County Board of Commissioners AUGUST 1, 2005-SPECIAL MEETING

"Motion by Commissioner Jones to remove any material that does not meet the 6.2 standard as set forth by staff. The motion also included raising the standard to 7.2, and requiring that any material used was to be in accordance with the typical section for shoreline stabilization as presented by Mrs. Blackshear, capped with a minimum of three feet of sand*with a value of 8.1.*This is to be effective as of August 2, 2005. Any material placed on the beach prior to this meeting, that met the standard of 6.2 when approved, would be considered an allowable use for emergency stability fill.* Any material that was placed on the beach prior to this meeting and*was not in compliance with the 6.2 standard must be removed at the contractor's or homeowner’s expense.* Any material placed on the beach, subsequent to this meeting, that does not meet the 7.2 standard would not be an allowable use and*would have to be removed at the contractor's or homeowner's expense.*Commissioner Meadows seconded the motion."

read all the minutes at http://minutes.co.walton.fl.us/

[FoX]

I remember the words that were recorded in those minutes. I remember Mrs. Blackshear repeating the whole decision because she wanted to be sure that she and everyone else on staff understood what to do from that point on.

Any county employee or elected official who is confused needs to read the minutes to clear up any confusion they might have.

[ecopal]

County officials are saying they gave the Montgomery Street owners "special dispensation" to put less than 7.2 sand on the beach dunes after August.

Do county officials have the right to over ride an unambiguous Board of Commissioners' ruling?

[peaboy]

With this information as to the actual grade of the sand, an emergency meeting of our elected officials must be called for. This is what was so effective in Blue Mountain. Everyone posting here needs to contact the commissioners on Monday and express your desire for the Board to call an EMERGENCY MEETING.

The dirt must go at the expense of the contractor or the homeowner. This time, we the tax payers should not be obligated to pay as we did in Blue Mountain.

Nice work ecopal, smilin joe and all others involved.

[Smiling JOe]

County officials are saying they gave the Montgomery Street owners "special dispensation" to put less than 7.2 sand on the beach dunes after August.

Do county officials have the right to over ride an unambiguous Board of Commissioners' ruling?

According to Greg Graham (in charge of qualifing the sand being dumped, the County Commissioners are allowing anyone who had began work before Aug 01 to continue to finish the job. When my friend asked him what "began work" meant, he had a very vague response. My friend asked if the homeowner simply had a contract, did that mean that the job had began. His indirect response was yes. Therefore, this "special dispensation" is not restricted to Seagrove, but anywhere along the beaches of SoWal. Also included would be the huge seawall being constructed south of the 30A/hwy395 intersection. They commenced that project prior to Aug 01, if I correctly recall.

To my knowledge, the Commissioners cannot approve anything that contradicts the policy which they made, unless the policy is changed by them. They have not publicly changed the policy, so in my opinion, non-legal, it doesn't matter what they tell the Code Enforcement, Greg Graham, or Pat Blackshear now. Greg is approving sand that does not meet the minimum standards and he should be held accountable. If his superior(s) are agreeing with him and his piss-poor story of I didn't understand the law, they too, should be held accountable.

[Smiling JOe]

With this information as to the actual grade of the sand, an emergency meeting of our elected officials must be called for. This is what was so effective in Blue Mountain. Everyone posting here needs to contact the commissioners on Monday and express your desire for the Board to call an EMERGENCY MEETING.

The dirt must go at the expense of the contractor or the homeowner. This time, we the tax payers should not be obligated to pay as we did in Blue Mountain.

Nice work ecopal, smilin joe and all others involved.

I hear you Peaboy, but I see a problem. Greg Graham has given permission ( a power that he should not have, nor does have) to the homeowners to finish any job started before Aug 1, using the old minimum and sub-par standards. Even today, Greg will not tell the homeowners that he made a mistake in interpreting the law, and that from this day forward, any new sand brought in would have to meet the current standard. He, Pat Blackshear and the County Commissioners whom he states agree with the breaking of the rules should at least step up to the plate today. This is just ridiculous. Our local gov't sucks.

[Rita]

I hear you Peaboy, but I see a problem. Greg Graham has given permission ( a power that he should not have, nor does have) to the homeowners to finish any job started before Aug 1, using the old minimum and sub-par standards. .....

This being the case, the county (taxpayers) should have to pay for the removal of the dark sand/soil. It still should be removed.
Then at election time REMOVE officials that don't bother to go to meetings or those who do not read and make sure they are clear on the policies.

[Smiling JOe]

This being the case, the county (taxpayers) should have to pay for the removal of the dark sand/soil. It still should be removed.
Then at election time REMOVE officials that don't bother to go to meetings or those who do not read and make sure they are clear on the policies.

Just a bit more info-- at the meeting in Aug, Greg Graham was there, and whenthe question was asked, "who was in charge of checking the imported sand for minimum standards," Greg stood up and accepted the blame. I know darn well he knew what was going on then in Blue Mtn Beach, just as he knew the law after the meeting, just as he now knows that his actions are allowing people to either knowingly or unknowingly, illegally dump dark sand on the beach. I think before the tax payers are hit again, Greg should be removed from his position. If he continues to remain employeed in the current job, we can see a repeat of all of this again and again and again, all at taxpayers expense, and at the profits of whomever is the contractor on these jobs (does anyone know if Commissioner Roe Cuchens has these jobs too?)

I hate politics because it gets me extremely heated and I prefer to lie level like water. :bang:

[tuck]

During the meeting in August, Greg Graham took the fall for the actions of Ro Cuchens. That was very clear. We, the tax payers took the hit by paying for the removal of the dirt.

There were many people who were told before that meeting took place that nothing could be done about the Red Clay. We prooved them wrong. We must request the entire board come for an EMERGENCY meeting. This worked once, lets get it done again. Once these people see that we will hold them accountable again and again, then maybe some of Ro's Cronies will back out on him.

Find out if the house that the sand is going to in seagrove has a wall placed by Ro's crew. If so, then find out if the sand has come from his brother in laws sand pit north of Defuniak.

[peaboy]

Once again, Tuck is right. In Blue Mountain, we were told the sand would stay. We even saw Greg Graham tamper with the test results to the approval of the County Staff. We forced their hand by demanding an emergency meeting. Cindy Meadows and Ken Pridgen were great about getting this done. Once at the meeting things got done. Illegal sand was removed and the projects halted.

We can do it again. Contact all the Commissioners and DEMAND action. They work for us..

[FoX]

I believe Greg was the fall guy. But he didn't really fall. It's not his fault because he is between a rock and a hard place.

The results of the last meeting about the dark soil at Blue Mountain Beach were clear - NO MORE DARK SOIL.

Those responsible for the dark soil at Blue Mountain didn't even get a slap on the wrist because the taxpayers had to pay!

NOW IT IS TIME FOR JUSTICE!!! :pissed:

[Smiling JOe]

I believe Greg was the fall guy. But he didn't really fall. It's not his fault because he is between a rock and a hard place.

...Fox, you are correct. Greg is a fall guy, but he did not fall at all. He took punches from all sides. If he was not being pushed around by the higher ups in the County chain of command, he would have been fired. Since he is still employeed, I can tell you for sure that someone else is pulling and tugging on his puppet strings. The big question is who?

I don't know Greg personally, but he seems to be a decent guy caught in a terrible place as you describe. Does he want to keep his job, or does he want to be fired and replaced by another puppet? I don't think he believe that the latter is a choice for him.

[tuck]

Greg may be a good guy caught in the wrong place, but ethics should override all. How can you sleep when your ethics have been robbed from you. It was and still is appearant that the string puller on Greg is Ro Cuchens.

[Smiling JOe]

Greg may be a good guy caught in the wrong place, but ethics should override all. How can you sleep when your ethics have been robbed from you. It was and still is appearant that the string puller on Greg is Ro Cuchens.Have you been reading my mind? The tough part is proving that and getting the story in the press.

[tuck]

Have you been reading my mind? The tough part is proving that and getting the story in the press.

Smilin Joe. All we need to do is find the contract between the home owners, the contractor on the sea walls (ro Cuchens) and then the contractor or the person who ordered the dirt (ro Cuchens) Track the dirt that was delivered to these people especially the first instance in Blue Mountain. Wasn't the dirt from Ro's brother-in laws pit located North of Defuniak.

It was amazing how they said no white sand could be fouund but once the BCC ordered it to be removed, loads of the white were brought in. It would be interesting to find out the charges the contractor (ro) charged the people for the sand. was it at the rate for the approved sand 6.2 or for the failing grade of 4.0. If it is true that the rate was for the higher grade and then the lower was brought in, isn't that price gauging? Maybe the State Attorney General should be brought in the loop on this.

If the same is happening in Seagrove, and the same people are involved then you have found the string puller of Greg Graham. It is clearly Ro

[FoX]

There is plenty of white sand available and it's not that much more expensive than the darker. It's amazing how greedy and shortsighted people are. I think some of these owners have the victim mentality and therefore feel that they are entitled to do whatever they want no matter what the consequences. Although I do believe they are in the minority of all gulf front owners.

[Smiling JOe]

Smilin Joe. All we need to do is find the contract between the home owners, the contractor on the sea walls (ro Cuchens) and then the contractor or the person who ordered the dirt (ro Cuchens) Track the dirt that was delivered to these people especially the first instance in Blue Mountain. Wasn't the dirt from Ro's brother-in laws pit located North of Defuniak.

It was amazing how they said no white sand could be fouund but once the BCC ordered it to be removed, loads of the white were brought in. It would be interesting to find out the charges the contractor (ro) charged the people for the sand. was it at the rate for the approved sand 6.2 or for the failing grade of 4.0. If it is true that the rate was for the higher grade and then the lower was brought in, isn't that price gauging? Maybe the State Attorney General should be brought in the loop on this.

If the same is happening in Seagrove, and the same people are involved then you have found the string puller of Greg Graham. It is clearly Ro

I don't know that Roe has a brother-in-law in the dirt business. I heard that rumor a while back, but Roe denies it. I don't know his family, and therefore have not repeated that rumor. Do you know for certain?

How does one go about finding out who has the contract to place the seawalls? The homeowners won't tell you, and Roe probably would not be a reliable source.

[Smiling JOe]

There is plenty of white sand available and it's not that much more expensive than the darker. It's amazing how greedy and shortsighted people are. I think some of these owners have the victim mentality and therefore feel that they are entitled to do whatever they want no matter what the consequences. Although I do believe they are in the minority of all gulf front owners.

Fox, again, you are correct. These violaters are in the minority. I see numerous Gulf front owners who want to obey the rules, and they are more than willing to pay for it, even though it is very expensive to do any repair work of the sort. There are good people on this very Board who do obide by the laws and they, as I believe Rita once said, are to be commended for giving a crap. I have seen plenty examples of white sand, used for fill, up and down the beach. The violaters need to be stopped, and the rules should be enforced. Without enforcement, what good are rules?


I would like for anyone receiving a reply email on this topic from a County Commissioner to post it here. I have not seen a reply. Since Cindy Meadows, whom I think of as a good gal, was refered to in specific by Greg Graham as being in agreement of letting this continue, I am very interested in learning her response. Is Greg just throwing her name out there to get people off Roe's back? I need to know.

[aquaticbiology]

>>How does one go about finding out who has the contract to place the seawalls?

DEP requires the info for the permit - but would they say who it was?

Also if he is at all intelligent he will have shill companies to distance him from any actual work/lawsuits since walton county dosent even require a business license (what a wonderful place to relocate a shady company! - even better than nevada!)

[Rita]

Just a bit more info-- at the meeting in Aug, Greg Graham was there, and whenthe question was asked, "who was in charge of checking the imported sand for minimum standards," Greg stood up and accepted the blame. I know darn well he knew what was going on then in Blue Mtn Beach, just as he knew the law after the meeting, just as he now knows that his actions are allowing people to either knowingly or unknowingly, illegally dump dark sand on the beach. I think before the tax payers are hit again, Greg should be removed from his position. If he continues to remain employeed in the current job, we can see a repeat of all of this again and again and again, all at taxpayers expense, and at the profits of whomever is the contractor on these jobs (does anyone know if Commissioner Roe Cuchens has these jobs too?)

I hate politics because it gets me extremely heated and I prefer to lie level like water. :bang:

Thanks SJ,
We owners/taxpayers who are not fortunate enough to be living there at this time really appreciate you and the others fighting the good fight! :bang:

[Rita]

Greg may be a good guy caught in the wrong place, but ethics should override all. How can you sleep when your ethics have been robbed from you. ......

AGREED! :(

[jdarg]

How can you sleep when your ethics have been robbed from you. It was and still is appearant that the string puller on Greg is Ro Cuchens.[/QUOTE]


Unfortunately, it seems many many people are able to sleep without their ethics.

[Miss Kitty]

For the record and as a reminder...my SWCC membership and check went out in today's mail. Printer was out of ink and couldn't get it done sooner. I made a note on there that I was very concerned about the sand quality issue and as an absentee property owner I would be willing to help in any way I can from afar. If you were thinking about joining...Just Do It!!!

[Paula]

I received the following email reply from Rick Harter today. So, I highly recommend that we get people to send these emails to the appropriate people listed in the postings above. We may get a response. I'm going to thank him for his quick reply along with a copy of SJ's photo of the brown sand. The goal is not to just stop new use of brown sand, but to get the people using this substandard sand to have to remove it.


Jim Martinello, from our Bureau, will (or possibly already has) inspect(ed) the alleged violation this week and will respond accordingly. We appreciate your concern and thank you for your observations.

Rick Harter
FDEP Bureau of Beaches & Coastal Systems

[tuck]

I received the following email reply from Rick Harter today. So, I highly recommend that we get people to send these emails to the appropriate people listed in the postings above. We may get a response. I'm going to thank him for his quick reply along with a copy of SJ's photo of the brown sand. The goal is not to just stop new use of brown sand, but to get the people using this substandard sand to have to remove it.


Jim Martinello, from our Bureau, will (or possibly already has) inspect(ed) the alleged violation this week and will respond accordingly. We appreciate your concern and thank you for your observations.

Rick Harter
FDEP Bureau of Beaches & Coastal Systems

Great News, lets keep the emails going...

[ecopal]

Channel 7 News interviewed 2 residents regarding the dark sand issue today (December 20). Might be on the on the 6PM news today.

Anyone else wishing to be interviewed in the future please PM me or directly call the TV stations.

Thanks.

[Smiling JOe]

The story just ran on the 6:30am news. It will probably be repeated in another 30min and again tonight.

[tuck]

Smilin jOE, IS THEIR A LINK TO THE REPORT THAT AIRED ON THE NEWS? iF NOT, CAN YOU GIVE US AN UPDATE ON WHAT WAS SAID...

THANKS FOR YOUR EFFORTS

[Smiling JOe]

The story is not on their website, www.wjhg.com (http://www.wjhg.com).
In my opinion, and others', they left out the critical part of the story regading the County's blatent breach of the rules which it set in place in Aug. The reporter interviewed two people and chopped their story into a brief snip-it. The reporter failed to attempt to interview anyone from the County to get the scoop on any wrong doing. In my opinion, this would be a really big scoop for an investigative reporter, but I guess we don't have any in the panhandle of FL.
The report basically summarized that some people are upset that people having been dumping darker sand on the beach. They did mention the required minimums, but overall, lacked a grasp of the corrupt politics behind it all, which may be a bigger story than the dark sand.

IMO, the dark sand is only a symptom of the true problem, which is corrupt people in public office.

[FoX]

No one is talking about all of the illegal sea walls going in on te beaches. Could it be the dark sand is a planned smokescreen?

[Paula]

If people write emails or call the people listed earlier in this thread, you may want to give specific addresses or areas where the brown sand is being dumped. Doing so will help DEP do it's job more efficiently. I didn't give addresses in my email because I'm not in the area and didn't know the specific addresses or areas.

[Mermaid]

If people write emails or call the people listed earlier in this thread, you may want to give specific addresses or areas where the brown sand is being dumped. Doing so will help DEP do it's job more efficiently. I didn't give addresses in my email because I'm not in the area and didn't know the specific addresses or areas.

Very good point, Paula. Next week when my husband and I go beach walking, we plan on making notes about where we see something brown and ugly and illegal. :(

[Smiling JOe]

If people write emails or call the people listed earlier in this thread, you may want to give specific addresses or areas where the brown sand is being dumped. Doing so will help DEP do it's job more efficiently. I didn't give addresses in my email because I'm not in the area and didn't know the specific addresses or areas.


Addresses in question for dark sand dumping in Seagrove Beach, from the WalCo Property Appraiser's website:

OWNERSHIP INFORMATION:

ISACKS, LEONARD S JR & BRYAN L
260 ROSEWOOD DR
METAIRIE, LA 70005

Situs Address 42 MONTGOMERY ST

*********
JONES, BRADLEY R & CHERYL A
58 MONTGOMERY ST
SANTA ROSA BCH, FL 32459

Situs Address 58 MONTGOMERY ST SRB

**********
KOBLENZER, DALE & PEGGY E
635 RIDGECREST ROAD
AKRON, OH 44303

Situs Address76 MONTGOMERY ST SRB

***********
DAVIS, BARBARA L
90 MONTGOMERY ST
SANTA ROSA BEACH, FL 32459

Situs Address90 MONTGOMERY ST SRB
************************************************
Fox, why do you say the seawalls are illegal?

[ecopal]

I am concerned that county officials are allowing violations of the August 1, 2005 BCC ruling at the Montgomery Street beach construction site (west of Greenwood Ave.).

The Special Meeting of Walton County Board of Commissioners decision August 1, 2005 clearly stated:
“Any material placed on the beach, subsequent to this meeting, that does not meet the 7.2 standard would not be an allowable use and would have to be removed at the contractor's or homeowner's expense.”

Sand of considerably less than 7.2 standard has been brought in since August 1 and continues to be dumped on the beach at Montgomery Street beach to west of Greenwood Ave.

This situation is unacceptable and has to be remedied. We also have to wonder if such exceptions to the rules are happening elsewhere on the beach.

I feel we all need to contact the commissioners and request a Special Board of County Commissioner (BCC) meeting so we can have an open forum on this important issue.

What do you think?

If you agree please also contact your friends and neighbors who you think are concerned about this problem. The more of us that call the better.

If you would like more info. please PM me.

Thank you.
Please see commissioner contact information below:

Scott Brannon *
19367 U.S. Hwy 331 S

Freeport, FL 32439

Tel: (850) 835-4860

Fax: (850) 835-4836

E-mail:* brascott@co.walton.fl.us

*
Commissioner Kenneth Pridgen *
Address:
17400 State Highway 83 North
DeFuniak Springs, FL 32433
Phone: (850) 834-6328
Fax: (850) 834-6385
Email: prikenneth@co.walton.fl.us

Commissioner Larry Jones
Contact Information
Donna Walsinkham, District 3*Executive Assistant
1483 County Highway 1087
DeFuniak Springs, FL. 32435
Phone: (850) 892-8474
Fax: (850)892-8475
e-mail: jonlarry@co.walton.fl.us

Commissioner Ro Cuchens
Commissioner Cuchens can be reached at (850) 835-4834.
His office is located at 417 Highway 20 East in Freeport.
Email: cucro@co.walton.fl.us

Commissioner Cindy Meadows
90 Spires Lane, Unit 7-A
Santa Rosa Beach, FL. 32459
Phone: (850) 622-3059
Fax: (850) 622-3067
e-mail:* meacindy@co.walton.fl.us

[tuck]

...
The report basically summarized that some people are upset that people having been dumping darker sand on the beach. They did mention the required minimums, but overall, lacked a grasp of the corrupt politics behind it all, which may be a bigger story than the dark sand.

IMO, the dark sand is only a symptom of the true problem, which is corrupt people in public office.

Thanks for the update smilin joe. This issue is about corrupt people in public office. Chris Mitchell with news 13 was in attendance during the August Emergency Meeting. His camera was running. We need to urge him to get involvede. He saw what was up in Blue MTn and heard the BCC decision. Maybe he will more acturetly get the facts out.

All I want for Xmas is No Mo Roe....

[Miss Kitty]

We need ecopal, tuck and SJ to be interviewed. That is my Christmas Wish.
I have been in contact with WC and have let them know that I have friends out there that will be checking on sand grade being used...they say they are as concerned about this as I was...good thing...DON"T MESS WITH TEXAS!

[Smiling JOe]

I am concerned that county officials are allowing violations of the August 1, 2005 BCC ruling at the Montgomery Street beach construction site (west of Greenwood Ave.).

The Special Meeting of Walton County Board of Commissioners decision August 1, 2005 clearly stated:
“Any material placed on the beach, subsequent to this meeting, that does not meet the 7.2 standard would not be an allowable use and would have to be removed at the contractor's or homeowner's expense.”

Sand of considerably less than 7.2 standard has been brought in since August 1 and continues to be dumped on the beach at Montgomery Street beach to west of Greenwood Ave.

This situation is unacceptable and has to be remedied. We also have to wonder if such exceptions to the rules are happening elsewhere on the beach.
...
What really gets me about all of this flip flopping the County Commissioners are now doing is that, at the Aug 01 meeting, the specific question was asked by a homeowner from the audience (I doubt it was recorded in the official record), "What if I already have a contract for sand that meets only the 6.2 min. standard?" That is when the Commissioners tried to clarify what ecopal wrote above. The answer from the County Comissioners was, "“Any material placed on the beach, subsequent to this meeting, that does not meet the 7.2 standard would not be an allowable use and would have to be removed at the contractor's or homeowner's expense.”

They knew the answer at that meeting, and the Commissioners clarified it for them. It doesn't get any more black and white than this.

[Paula]

also email the following:

I received a reply back from Rick Harter, so the more people expressing concern, the better.

Tony McNeal with DEP. <tony.mcneal@dep.state.fl.us> 850-921-7745.

Jim Martinello, DEP Enforcement & Compliance officer.
<James.Martinello@dep.state.fl.us> 850-414-7772.

Rick Harter , rick.harter@dep.state.fl.us 850-921-7746

Ask for DEP to come and officially test the sand. If they determine that the dark sand is "not beach compatible material" they can order the county to have it removed.

[peaboy]

This sand was already tested and did not make the grade. Now it sems the county staff and Commissioners are saying it is some sort of grandfathered in.

We need to remind them to listen to the tape of the August meeting on the sand.

[Smiling JOe]

Quoting from the minutes on the Clerk of Courts website:


"Motion by Commissioner Jones to remove any material that does not meet the 6.2 standard as set forth by staff. The motion also included raising the standard to 7.2, and requiring that any material used was to be in accordance with the typical section for shoreline stabilization as presented by Mrs. Blackshear, capped with a minimum of three feet of sand with a value of 8.1. This is to be effective as of August 2, 2005. Any material placed on the beach prior to this meeting, that met the standard of 6.2 when approved, would be considered an allowable use for emergency stability fill. Any material that was placed on the beach prior to this meeting and was not in compliance with the 6.2 standard must be removed at the contractor's or homeowner’s expense. Any material placed on the beach, subsequent to this meeting, that does not meet the 7.2 standard would not be an allowable use and would have to be removed at the contractor's or homeowner's expense. Commissioner Meadows seconded the motion.

Chairman Pridgen asked about the sand approved by staff at Blue Mountain Beach. Chairman Jones stated that if the sand was approved by staff and met the 6.2 standard it could remain and be used in accordance with the typical section. However, if materials did not meet the 6.2 standard, then Code Enforcement would need to work thru those issues. He also recommended that the Board set a standard and allow staff to enforce it and work out the best engineering practices.

Commissioner Cuchens restated that the materials were checked numerous times and that if the materials were going to be rejected they should have been rejected at an earlier time. Commissioner Jones stated again that if the materials delivered were approved by staff at the 6.2 standard they were to stay.

Attorney Hallman asked Commissioner Jones to clarify as to the initial placement of the darker material. Commissioner Jones stated that the material must end up as directed in the typical section presented by Mrs. Blackshear. Commissioner Cuchens asked if this also applied to staging areas, which he stated was what Blue Mountain Beach was intended to be. Commissioner Jones re-stated that the final result must look like the typical section.

Commissioner Meadows asked if a time frame would be used to determine how long residents had to complete the work. Commissioner Jones stated that he did not know what a reasonable time would be. Ms. Blackshear asked that the time frame be left for staff to determine.

Chairman Pridgen called for the question on the motion. Ayes 3, Naye 1. Jones Aye, Meadows Aye, Pridgen Aye, and Cuchens Naye. Motion passed.

Ms. Blackshear asked for clarification on the motion stating that her understanding was that sand approved by staff at a 6.2 would stay but, future material would be at a 7.2 and the darker materials were to be used in accordance with the typical section for shoreline stabilization and then capped with the 8.1 or better material.

Attorney Hallman asked for clarification, asking if the sand previously approved at a 6.2 using the washing procedure would still be permissible under the motion. Mrs. Blackshear stated that her understanding was that anything brought in after the following morning that did not meet the 7.2 standard would need to be removed and that she would work with the contractor to remove the sand left at Blue Mountain Beach.

Commissioner Cuchens asked for clarification as to who was to pay for removal of the sand at Blue Mountain Beach. Mrs. Blackshear stated that her understanding was that unapproved sand was to be removed at the contractor’s expense, but asked that staff be allowed to work out the issue of removing sand approved by staff using the washing procedure.

Motion by Commissioner Meadows, second by Commissioner Jones, to remove sand dumped at Blue Mountain Beach that was approved by staff and did not meet the 6.2 standard prior to washing at the county’s expense.

Commissioner Jones asked for clarification on the motion. Commissioner Meadows stated that her motion was that the sand at Blue Mountain Beach approved at a value of 6.2 or higher using the washing procedure be removed at the county’s expense. Attorney Hallman asked at what rate the contractor would charge the county for removal. Commissioner Meadows stated that the rate was unknown, but it would be checked into. Ms. Blackshear again asked that staff be allowed to work out the details.

Chairman Pridgen called for the question on the motion. Ayes 3, Naye 1. Jones Aye, Meadows Aye, Pridgen Aye, and Cuchens Naye. Motion Passed.

Ms. Blackshear stated that she was clear on the directives from the Board and that she was disappointed at the treatment of contractors working on the beach. She reminded the citizens that Code Enforcement was working hard to repair the beaches and that they requested this meeting because clarification was needed. She also stated that she felt the majority of the complaints came from the stockpile of material at Blue Mountain Beach.

Attorney Hallman asked for clarification about sand that met the washed 6.2 standard, but does not meet it without washing, in areas other than Blue Mountain Beach.

Ms. Blackshear stated that it was her understanding that it would need to be removed and that the Board had directed her to work with the contractor to remove the sand at Blue Mountain Beach.

Mr. Goodwin objected to the Board calling a meeting without sufficient public notice and asked how to file a formal objection to the decision of the Board. Attorney Hallman replied that there was no formal objection used in a legislative hearing, but that he should consult his own attorney for legal advice.

Motion by Commissioner Meadows, seconded by Commissioner Jones, to adjourn the meeting at 8:20 p.m. Ayes 4, Nayes 0. Jones Aye, Cuchens Aye, Pridgen Aye, and Meadows Aye."



************

From the minutes, it looks like Mrs. Blackshear understood clearly, and therefore should not have been confused when explaining the situation to the "uncertain" Mr Greg Graham.

Even Ro states that the sand should have been removed earlier when it tested below the minimum. :bang:

[ecopal]

Good work SJ!

Lets hope we can get a Special BCC meeting called to bring all this up.

For those interested in reading minutes on all BCC meetings go to:

http://minutes.co.walton.fl.us/

However, the Special BCC July 14 meeting was not on the site.

[katie blue]

The confusing terminology here seems to be "sand brought in after August 1." Do they mean brought in for approval, or brought in for dumping. This could be a legal stickler.

In other words, this quote from the minutes can be interpreted two ways: "..sand approved by staff at a 6.2 would stay but, future material would be at a 7.2.."

There are a couple of key verbs missing here.
Did they mean that after Aug 1, future mat'l (brought in for approval) would be (approved) at 7.2, [thus allowing for previously-approved sand to be dumped at any time going forward, justifying the current situation?]

OR

Did they mean that after Aug 1, future mat'l (to be dumped) would be (required to be rated) at a 7.2, [in order to be dumped at all after Aug 1--thus disallowing the current situation?]

The following paragraph seems to point to the latter case, since they use the term "removed" and not "rejected." But a good lawyer could make either case if this is all they had to work with.

[Paula]

Oh, Katie Blue, I hope that regardless of the specific wording, the non-code sand would have to come out. The wording may make a difference in terms of whether the owner pays or the county pays, but either way it really should be taken out and the appropriate sand should be put in.

By the way, I noticed that some sea walls were going in by our beach. Have you seen them? Other than the sea walls, a lot of tractor tracks in the sand, and that 1950s house hanging over the side of the dune, our beach looked very good. I'm sorry you won't be there over the break -- it would have been nice to run into you at the beach.

[katie blue]

Thanks, Paula, we really wish we could be there too.

Generally I'm optimistic about things, but not so much about the chances of owners removing bad sand. If they had conscience and foresight, I'm betting they wouldn't have dumped it to begin with. And with all this confusion about what the actual letter of the law is, there's going to be lots of (eventual) infractions getting grandfathered in over the next year or so -- lots of irreversible damage. Best hope is that the majority of gulf front owners will do the right thing. But you know, I lost faith in the local govt about a year ago. I really hope that won't always be the case going forward, but until the next election... :idontno:

[Paula]

Well, sounds like we need to get some of the posters on this board who value the environment, think long-term, and can't be bought elected to county positions if they want to take them. Anyone want to run for office?

It's really too bad we won't cross paths this trip, Katie Blue, especially since we found out we're neighbors.

[Smiling JOe]

Good work SJ!

Lets hope we can get a Special BCC meeting called to bring all this up.

For those interested in reading minutes on all BCC meetings go to:

http://minutes.co.walton.fl.us/

However, the Special BCC July 14 meeting was not on the site.
The minutes I posted were from the "Special Meeting" on Aug 1, 2005.

[Beach Runner]

Seagrove Villas has a new walkover-but it is private property.
If you use that walkover the dirty sand will be on your left-east and the excavation into the beach will be down a block on our right/west.

If you want to go down a public access you can use the Andalussa street access then walk or run west for a couple blocks.
Thanks for the directions. I finally walked down there - actually I walked all the way to Doodle's. Couldn't believe my eyes - all of the brown "sand" (I know, not all of the sand is brown) and seawalls. It must cost an individual a boatload of money to build of of those seawalls, fill it with sand, create a dune, plant sea oats, and try to protect it all with the textile meshing and wooden fencing.

It must have been on another thread, but I can't find it - what is the science behind behind how these wooden seawalls covered with sand are supposed to stop erosion from a future storm?

[aquaticbiology]

it's really not exactly designed just to protect from a storm - its to keep the dune, while had been left in a vertical shape by the last big storm, from slumping back down to a more rounded shape (and taking their building with it), plus they are hoping that it will protect, at least a little, from the next big storm. we'll see.

http://www.unesco.org/csi/pub/source/ero20.gif

the unesco thing (for the carribean but valid for sowal as well - has everything in it, just read through each case and you will pretty much have everything) is at: http://www.unesco.org/csi/pub/source/ero6.htm

[Beach Runner]

it's really not exactly designed just to protect from a storm - its to keep the dune, while had been left in a vertical shape by the last big storm, from slumping back down to a more rounded shape (and taking their building with it), plus they are hoping that it will protect, at least a little, from the next big storm. we'll see.

http://www.unesco.org/csi/pub/source/ero20.gif

the unesco thing (for the carribean but valid for sowal as well - has everything in it, just read through each case and you will pretty much have everything) is at: http://www.unesco.org/csi/pub/source/ero6.htm
Thanks for the info! I'll read up on it.

[ecopal]

IMPORTANT CORRECTION to earlier post of 15Dec.05 on this thread which read in part:
>>>>...the dark sand dumped in Seagrove, as recently as yesterday, measures a 6.2 and it should be 7.2 per County Commissioners' ruling from the Blue Mtn Beach Special Mtg. ...When Mr Graham was asked why they are being allowed to add sand below the minimum standards, he responded in a way that let my friend believe that he was being poked and prodded by higher-ups in the County. ....According to Mr Graham, he and Pat Blackshear went to Pat's boss and several County Commissioners, including Cindy Meadows, and their response was, if they started before the change in minimum standards to the 7.2, they could continue with the jobs. ... My friend also asked him why he could not now tell all dirt contractors and homeowners that since they now understand the law to be different from what he was telling them, any new sand delivered from this day forward would have to meet the new 7.2 minimum requirement. He did not have a response, other than the people told him if the owners had started before the Blue Mtn Beach Mtg, they could continue. <<<<

Commissioner Cindy Meadows asked me to post the following correction regarding what she allegedly said to Mr. Graham (in above posting) regarding sand standards. Ms. Meadows stated on 22Dec.05:

" ... misrepresentations of my response to Greg Graham when he told me (only after I called him to ask about the complaints) of the Planning Department's ruling on this newly imported sand.* Pat's boss would be the County Commission and NO ONE called me to* ask my opinion.* I called Greg last week after receiving the e-mails from complainants.* I never agreed with Greg's ruling that they could continue dumping less than 7.2 sand.* I listened to his after-the-fact explanation of the case and how they were handling it.* I haven't officially (on the record) given my opinion on the matter.* I want all the information I can get before doing so and I will address this with Pat Blackshear.* I know that the owners importing the sand have applied pressure to the Planning Department.*
Commissioner Cindy Meadows"

[Smiling JOe]

ecopal, thanks for the recent post. Mr Graham's statement did not fit the usual bill for Commissioner Cindy Meadows, but she had me wondering, since no one posted stating that they had heard a direct response from her. I am glad to read that she did not give the go-ahead to illegally place the sand.

[lost in sowal]

Does anyone know if the county is going to extend the original temporary wall permits they issued to property owners? Also, how long do they last (I heard 6 months)? I heard that the first ones were approved back in July and should be expiring soon. Also, does anyone know when the last ones were issued and when they will expire? :idontno:

[Smiling JOe]

Does anyone know if the county is going to extend the original temporary wall permits they issued to property owners? Also, how long do they last (I heard 6 months)? I heard that the first ones were approved back in July and should be expiring soon. Also, does anyone know when the last ones were issued and when they will expire? :idontno:I am not positive on the longevity of the temporary permits, but I seem to remember that the permits would be expiring around the beginning of Hurricane Season '06 (June). I am sure that every buried seawall that was permitted temporarily, will be converted into a permanent permit. If not, what contractor in his right mind would take on the liabililty for removing the sand, and the seawall, thereby placing the homes at risk to collapse? Also, I think it would cost more to remove the seawall than it would to install them. I just don't see it happening, and that is why I was raising He_ll about the seawalls a while back.

If I remember correctly, the DEP has to issue the permits. Does that sound right?

[lost in sowal]

I guess my question is more related to when will it no longer be allowed by the County and HAVE to be permitted by the state. If they get an extension on the County permit will this be able to continue on and on? If 6 months is right, then the summer will be safe because the state will have jurisdiction and can issue stop work orders by May 1. If the county is in charge and issues extensions then what will happen. It just seems like a good chance to stop the building by not reissuing County permits and let the state and feds sort it out. A summer with no tire tracks on the beach (except Grayton :D) oh to dream...

[EZ4144]

Seawall? What seawall? All I see is sand.

[Smiling JOe]

Seawall? What seawall? All I see is sand. Well just keep your head buried in the that hole in the sand, or is your hole in the septic tank?

[Miss Kitty]

Seawall? What seawall? All I see is sand.


I don't wish for it to happen, but never fear...those seawalls will be seen again.

[lost in sowal]

Maybe I confused two issues posting about walls in a sand thread but I think they are both related, but more importantly one has a more long term effect- walls. It appears that some of the Commissioners felt that people needed to protect their property with sand, walls whatever because of an emergency they were facing. Well, in case anyone is counting it's been since July that we had that emergency. Now I may be wrong but I think that if I was in an EMERGENCY situation then I would have been one of the first in line to "help myself" and there is no way that I would need an extension on my permit!!! The problem that may be coming is that the last permit in line from October could ask for the extension if some of the early ones get them now. This precedent could be more harmful than the INITIAL issuance, especially since an extension on the last permits mean this could continue forever and forever! This is the time to ask those questions since the commissioners are meeting next week and the vulchers will be lurching to get those extensions. The dark sand will wash away but the walls may last at the detriment of more sand.

Maybe I should become a coastal engineer so that I can serve as an expert witness when one property causes damages to another and the lawsuits begin :lol:

[ecopal]

>>>lost in sowal said "The dark sand will wash away but the walls may last at the detriment of more sand."<<<

Unfortuantely that is not true. The dark sand will be permanently mixed with the natural white beach sand .

What is unfortunate is that owners who have gone to the expense of putting white sand on their bluffs will find their nice white sand contaminated by their neighbor's cheap dark sand. This will happen through wind blown sand and future storm erosion.

Seagrove Villas and the properties to the west including Doodle and Seaside will have their beaches darkened permanently by their selfish neighbors up wind to the east who have put dark 6.2 grade sand on the beach.

Even though this darker sand being used by the Montgomery Street owners is supposed to be covered by a layer of whiter sand, it is not protected behind a seawall; they are installing a filled tube type system which can be washed over.

From the look of the sand that Seagrove Villas, Doodle and Seaside have put on the beach they have put higher grade whiter sand as a base than required. Good for them!

The Montgomery street (from Greenwood Ave. west) owners reportedly pressured the county to allow them to put dark sand significantly below the 7.2 standard set by the BCC in August. Go look for your self and then call your commissioners and ask for a special BCC meeting to investigate this atrocity.

[lost in sowal]

I am sorry if I meant to sound like the sand issue is not a problem because it may well be, the point is this appears to be like we're missing the forest for the trees. In the past storm, how much sand was washed out of the dunes and mixed with the beach? I have heard estimates of more than 40 feet in dune width. What color was the remaining bluff sand? It was not white in Kurt's pictures, and much worse than a 7/2 in some areas. What color was the beach sand, it was white with some black. What color is the beach sand now- WHITE.

Now let's go into the present- How much sand is being placed? Sometimes more than what was lost, sometimes less and it will have an impact but as shown in Kurt's and SJ's photos, the beach recovers with sand from the Gulf that is white, probably due from washing, mixing etc. Maybe we have hit a critical point but wouldn't a future storm have a similar impact?

Now with walls, that is something new on our beaches. In the other information I have read on walls in a previous thread, it appears they could have a more long term effect on the beach, which in turn will require more sand, and the viscious cycle continues. That was the point of my email. Walls that are "neccesary" either should be built within their original permit time or made to get a "real" permit from whoever it is in the state and feds (don't know, don't care). What do you think? :bang:

[Beach Runner]

From the look of the sand that Seagrove Villas, Doodle and Seaside have put on the beach they have put higher grade whiter sand as a base than required. Good for them!
I agree. I have walked/run it several times. The difference between their sand and some of their neighbors with the brown stuff is quite shocking. If you care about SoWal and have the opportunity to be there, take the time to walk it and see what I mean. The photos help, but being there is really invaluable.

One thing I don't understand about the seawalls with the pilings is the following: could you be walking down one of the dunes with pilings covered by sand and suddenly have a piling shoved up your you-know-where?

[Smiling JOe]

One thing I don't understand about the seawalls with the pilings is the following: could you be walking down one of the dunes with pilings covered by sand and suddenly have a piling shoved up your you-know-where?
If that were the case, you may have discovered a benefit of seawalls. Good One!:clap_1:

[Miss Kitty]

If that were the case, you may have discovered a benefit of seawalls. Good One!:clap_1:

:funn: