30A and 395 intersection

[thisnthat]

County is talking about a few ideas to improve the intersection.

http://www.nwfdailynews.com/news/rosa_11959___article.html/beach_santa.html

[Smiling JOe]

They have been talking about that for two years. Who knows what will happen. The round-a-bout takes up much space if done correctly, and I don't think the County currently owns enough property to make one work at that location.

For example, a roundabout would slow traffic to about 15 mph, Graham said, while a traffic signal would allow vehicles to move at normal speeds. Bicyclists would be safer with a traffic light, while installing a roundabout would involve acquiring property, which could mean that some old live oak trees would be cut down.

I can understand how traffic would slow to a continuous speed of about 15 mph with a roundabout installed, but can anyone explain to me how vehicles would move "at normal speeds" by installing a traffic signal? With pedestrian crossings and a 90 degree turn for much (66.6%) traffic at that intersection, can anyone explain how drivers will keep traffic continuously moving without killing people or rolling over? If traffic max speeds are 35mph, are there many vehicles which can make that 90 degree turn safely, at that speed? I'd say that Mr Graham has not studied much traffic if that is his response as recorded by the reporter, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that newspapers are often incorrectly reporting things.

[Beach Runner]

One of our neighbors went to the meeting and sent us a report. He said they were leaning toward a roundabout. But is there room? And how will that affect pedestrians and bicyclists?

Are there a lot of accidents at that intersection?

[thisnthat]

One of our neighbors went to the meeting and sent us a report. He said they were leaning toward a roundabout. But is there room? And how will that affect pedestrians and bicyclists?

Are there a lot of accidents at that intersection?

How would they do a roundabout anyway? They would have to shift the road because of that house that is right there on the south side.

I haven't seen a lot of accidents with vehicles there. Have seen many,many close calls with pedestrians and bikes.

[Smiling JOe]

Yes, they would have to shift the road and buy more property. The reason why they seem to be pushing it is because of the west-bound traffic back up in the summer. It stretches all the way to YellowFin on many days. They probably already received their money from NatureWalk, too, and have to use that money on the road.

[bluemtnrunner]

A roundabout would definitely keep traffic moving but a huge concern is the families on bikes who do not stop and look before crossing. With a roundabout they would all be slaughtered. If the walking/bike path were on the other side of 30A there, things would be so much safer.
And, since we are on the subject, why DON'T they stop at the intersection? How can people believe that they can ride a bike through a three way stop without even looking, let alone stopping. I am especially appalled by the parents with kids who breeze through. Their job is to teach the kids safety, right....look both ways before crossing the street. If I hit one of them because they pulled on across in my blindspot after I had stopped, looked and took my turn to go, that is not only going to be my fault, but ruin my life (morally and possibly financially).

Ok, vent over....for now.

[Smiling JOe]

I've seen people driving cars not stop when going through that three-way intersection and the one in Seaside -- with other drivers already stopped at the intersection, waiting their turn!

[New Yellowfin]

...a huge concern is the families on bikes who do not stop and look before crossing... If I hit one of them because they pulled on across in my blindspot after I had stopped, looked and took my turn to go, that is not only going to be my fault, but ruin my life (morally and possibly financially).

Not necessarily. We had a bicycle rental customer cruise through that intersection, assuming that he had the right-of-way no matter what. Well, he got hit by a van and went down. Not seriously hurt, but he was shaken up. In the end, he was issued a ticket for failure to yield. It seems that the law requires the bikes to stop before crossing. That seems reasonable and fair.

Regarding the re-design of that intersection, I have no strong opinions at this time.

[goodwitch58]

I would sure hate to see any trees destroyed -- why not a traffic light?:idontno:

[Beach Runner]

I can't tell you how many times I've had to slam on my brakes for families of bicyclists rolling across 30A in Watercolor without stopping. Even worse than Seaside pedestrians. It's like they don't realize it's HIGHWAY 30A.

BTW I am very polite to pedestrians and bicyclists. I go out of my way to do a dead stop to let them cross 30A. This is paradise --- what's the rush?

So what if 30A westbound is backed up to Yellowfin occasionally? What's the rush?

[greenroomsurfer]

A roundabout? Yea, that will go over like a fart in church! If it does go in I'm gonna plant my lawn chair and cooler and get a front row seat to absolute insanity!:bang: Put a caged boxing ring in the middle so the Motorist and the Cyclist will have a place to do Battle ( The Seagrove Coliseum )

[Beach Runner]

You know, I should know this as many hundreds of times I've been through that intersection. But is there a house tucked away in the grove on the northeast side of that intersection? Obviously the northwest side is vacant. I don't think the people who have spent a boatload of money renovating the house on the south side of that intersection will be too thrilled with a roundabout in their front yard.

Like I said, so what if it gets backed up occasionally during the high season? What's the rush? Just plan your trips to avoid the lunch hour and 4-5 when construction workers are headed out. Or ride a bike to Publix.

[ShallowsNole]

I agree with GRS. :floor:

Roundabouts in general have their place, but 30-A isn't one of them. The word "cluster" comes to mind.

[drivingtheview]

Agreed with all. How about this-do nothing! I believe a bypass already exists called Hwy 98:D. Nothing will limit the # of vehicles on the road, especially during the peak months. And you have to drive very cautiously/slowly along 30a anyway (especially when approaching 395 eastbound from Watercolor/Seaside and basically westbound from Seagrove). Signals and signs and roundabouts cannot alleviate this reality. When 30a traffic is an issue during the peak summer days I have found the beach to be a phenomenal alternative to my car. Please, please, please no more traffic lights!!!!!!

Someone else said it perfectly: It's paradise-what's the rush?

[John R]

maybe they could install a couple of out of phase stoplights like the ones in rosemary:bang::bang: that sure would slow things down.

[TreeFrog]

As a Seagrove resident, I'd say the jamup at 30A/395 is so infrequent as to render ANY investment there a waste. It only happens at the absolute peak, like 4th of July weekend. The rest of the time, it flows just fine. As I've often said, this isn't Atlanta, so what's the rush anyway?

If we just HAVE to spend some county $, let's put up a traffic light and turn it on only on peak visit times. The rest of the time, I'd bet the current 3-way stop would flow more traffic than a light. It sure seems that the Rosemary light actually impedes traffic flow rather than helping it, both on 30A and on Barrett Circle.

[seagrovegirl]

As a Seagrove resident, I'd say the jamup at 30A/395 is so infrequent as to render ANY investment there a waste. It only happens at the absolute peak, like 4th of July weekend. The rest of the time, it flows just fine. As I've often said, this isn't Atlanta, so what's the rush anyway?

If we just HAVE to spend some county $, let's put up a traffic light and turn it on only on peak visit times. The rest of the time, I'd bet the current 3-way stop would flow more traffic than a light. It sure seems that the Rosemary light actually impedes traffic flow rather than helping it, both on 30A and on Barrett Circle.

That is the best solution I have seen yet!!! :clap:

[scooterbug44]

NO ROUNDABOUT!!!! :angry:

The only problem(s) IMO at that intersection are:

1) People in cars AND on bikes not obeying the stop signs and rules of the road.

2) People in such a hurry to get somewhere that they go flying down the unpaved side roads to "beat traffic".

Dumbest thing EVER to want a roundabout at a location where drivers can't obey a stop sign or understand a 3-way stop.

A roundabout also creates major problems for the larger commercial vehicles that bring in the items that keep most of our local businesses running.

[sowalgayboi]

maybe they could install a couple of out of phase stoplights like the ones in rosemary:bang::bang: that sure would slow things down.

Actually those lights aren't out of phase. They have radar detectors on them. If you go speeding thru they will turn red. Same as the one at the WaterColor Publix.

NO ROUNDABOUT!!!! :angry:

The only problem(s) IMO at that intersection are:

1) People in cars AND on bikes not obeying the stop signs and rules of the road.

2) People in such a hurry to get somewhere that they go flying down the unpaved side roads to "beat traffic".

Dumbest thing EVER to want a roundabout at a location where drivers can't obey a stop sign or understand a 3-way stop.

A roundabout also creates major problems for the larger commercial vehicles that bring in the items that keep most of our local businesses running.

When they install a roundabout it has to work for all traffic. Generally the smaller ones in Tallahassee have a concrete inner curb for large trucks.

[Beach Runner]

Actually those lights aren't out of phase. They have radar detectors on them. If you go speeding thru they will turn red. Same as the one at the WaterColor Publix.




Speaking of the lights in front of the Seagrove Publix, it seems to me that the light is green longer for Watercolor traffic than for 395 traffic. Doesn't make sense. Sometime I'll have to time it.;-)

[rdelong43065]

Speaking of the lights in front of the Seagrove Publix, it seems to me that the light is green longer for Watercolor traffic than for 395 traffic. Doesn't make sense. Sometime I'll have to time it.;-)

I believe you are correct. It seems that the light is opposite now and stays red for the 395 traffic instead of the Publix traffic. I noticed this started a few weeks ago.

[seagrovegirl]

I believe you are correct. It seems that the light is opposite now and stays red for the 395 traffic instead of the Publix traffic. I noticed this started a few weeks ago.

I've noticed this too!

[Miss Kitty]

Speaking of the lights in front of the Seagrove Publix, it seems to me that the light is green longer for Watercolor traffic than for 395 traffic. Doesn't make sense. Sometime I'll have to time it.;-)

Duh...we are special people. :wave:

[njackie]

Speaking of the lights in front of the Seagrove Publix, it seems to me that the light is green longer for Watercolor traffic than for 395 traffic. Doesn't make sense. Sometime I'll have to time it.;-)

We have noticed this also and questioned what it was about.

[Snapper Grabber]

I've seen people driving cars not stop when going through that three-way intersection and the one in Seaside -- with other drivers already stopped at the intersection, waiting their turn!

Can you imagine what the traffic would have been had the NatureWalk Beach Club replaced Seagrove Villas? It would not be a pretty sight during the tourist season.

[Beach Runner]

Can you imagine what the traffic would have been had the NatureWalk Beach Club replaced Seagrove Villas? It would not be a pretty sight during the tourist season.
No kidding. I'll confess that one evening I was making dinner and had forgotten a key ingredient and needed to go to Publix. 30A was backed up way to the east of 395. So I arbitrarily went down a side street because I had seen others doing it. I realized I picked the wrong one that was a dead end. I turned around, and some old guy came out and started screaming at me. I said, "Sorry, I made a wrong turn." He cussed me out. I noticed the Gator flag on his house, and I said, "Go Gators! Check out my license plate." He didn't hear me, I guess -- whatever. He was still waving his fist at me.

I've learned that I really don't save any time going through those back streets, and it's an intrusion to those neighborhoods. Heck, I wouldn't like it if someone did that to my 'hood.

[Beach Runner]

Duh...we are special people. :wave:
Because? :roll:

[DuneLaker]

There are a few other alternatives, but are not popular with a few good friends on this board. I sometimes wish I didn't care. Those alternate back routes will happen one day because they will be the right and safe thing to do, even though it may not be the most desirable outcome for a few individuals on affected route. Today, I just don't have the energy and time to educate the public on this option or buck a dominate voice. This current slowdown buys us a little time. When the rush is on again, we'll be forced to the obvious alternatives. IMHO.

[sowalgayboi]

What about left and right hand turn lanes?

[Miss Kitty]

Because? :roll:

You have to ask? :idontno:

I have really never noticed the light length. I will try and remember and check it out.

[Smiling JOe]

What about left and right hand turn lanes?doesn't work well with stop signs, due to five cars stopped at a three-way stop. Much like WaterColor/30A intersection, which would be a nightmare if WaterColor had much traffic turning north and south.

[Smiling JOe]

As a Seagrove resident, I'd say the jamup at 30A/395 is so infrequent as to render ANY investment there a waste. It only happens at the absolute peak, like 4th of July weekend. The rest of the time, it flows just fine. As I've often said, this isn't Atlanta, so what's the rush anyway?

If we just HAVE to spend some county $, let's put up a traffic light and turn it on only on peak visit times. The rest of the time, I'd bet the current 3-way stop would flow more traffic than a light. It sure seems that the Rosemary light actually impedes traffic flow rather than helping it, both on 30A and on Barrett Circle.

:clap: I like the seasonal light idea.

I think the County received funds from Nature Walk's concurrency for roads, and they have to spend the money on improving the road in that area. While a traffic light isn't needed currently, IMO, if we look forward when Nature Walk is built out, as well as other developments on 395North, I think we will definitely have a need for some higher-capacity traffic system at that intersection.

Round abouts seem to work very well for people who are accustomed to them, but I guarantee you that most tourists will be confused as to what to do, who has the right of way, etc. In addition, I think they take up too much area if designed properly. I remember Asheville getting a round about near the school. It was their first. It worked fairly well until the fire truck had to maneuver around it. The firetruck couldn't make it, and they had to re-engineer the roundabout to make it work for emergency vehicles.

[sowalgayboi]

I'd suggest a cop directing traffic, but that doesn't always work either. Anybody remember when the power lines went down on 98 and ever bit of traffic was routed onto 30A? I distinctly remember this as traffic was backed up from 395 east past Eastern lake.

[scooterbug44]

Before we spend a bunch of money on a roundabout (which we don't even have room for BTW) I suggest people:

1) Hang up their cell phones and pay attention
2) Stop at the stop signs (cars and bikes)
3) remember that "traffic" is relative - yes it is slow and sometimes frustrating using that intersection at peak times, but it's still only 5-10 minutes
4) we should think long term when planning for further growth - another north-south route or connector to 395 would be much more effective at reducing traffic just making traffic go around in a circle