Agree or Disagree- McCain/Palin Question

[Geo]

On another thread I made a point and asked if anyone disagreed. Despite the fact that I was thanked, no one responded one way or the another. I am curious what ya'll think-

I believe if Palin was not a woman, McCain would not have picked her as his veep...

What do you think?
Agree or disagree?

Feel free to explain why if you like...

Thx for playing...

G

EDIT- I wanted to do a poll but couldn't find that feature...

[aleonard]

On another thread I made a point and asked if anyone disagreed. Despite the fact that I was thanked, no one responded one way or the another. I am curious what ya'll think-

I believe if Palin was not a woman, McCain would not have picked her as his veep...

What do you think?
Agree or disagree?

Feel free to explain...

Thx for playing...

EDIT- I wanted to do a poll but couldn't find that feature...

Agree.............she adds a fresh boost t his campaign and hopefully draws a female vote as well.

[analogman]

I think he's just trying to go for the Hillary votes, but it will fail miserably in that aspect. They're polar opposites.

And...do we want this virtual novice who doesn't even know what a VP does (her words, not mine) one old heartbeat from the white house? I don't think it's such a good idea.

[30ashopper]

Agreed...and the democrats chose Obama because...?

[Miss Kitty]

:lolabove:...Geo and his magic pot!

[steele mama]

Agree. Female, conservative...double whammy. (insert is that a word smiley)

[sunspotbaby]

I agree...Even South Park has it's Token.

[Tootsie]

i completely agree geo.
while I consider McCain's vp pick interesting and brilliant in some ways, I also find it irresponsible. it is pure srategy. and goofer is right - this is a sophisticated tv reality show now. america will enjoy every minute of it.

personally, I think people will vote for president. not VP.

:wave:

[Tootsie]

I agree...Even South Park has it's Token.
:funn:

[jdarg]

Agree. I imagine there was a list of qualifications with boxes to check- and she was the only one on the list that had all the boxes checked, including the "female" box. Ding! Winner!

I am still waiting to hear the "big reason" he picked Palin (other than her gender). What made her stand out above the other possibilities? I want the "Aha! so THAT's why he picked her " realization.

[Santiago]

I think he's just trying to go for the Hillary votes, but it will fail miserably in that aspect. They're polar opposites.

And...do we want this virtual novice who doesn't even know what a VP does (her words, not mine) one old heartbeat from the white house? I don't think it's such a good idea.

Do you not find it ironic that she is just as experienced as Obama, probably more so, and yet you think his election would be a good thing.

[Smiling JOe]

Both parties are pure strategy, not just the Reps.

I once lost a job to a female (i have no resentment toward females because of it). It was a gov't job and they told me straight up, that we were both equally qualified, but they are required to try balance their mix of employees based on race, age, sex, so they had to choose the female. Kind of sucks, but if all else being equal, it completely makes sense to me.

The question in this case of VP is, "is all else equal?" I think the answer would be no. McCain has lost his conservative base. Actually, he never had them. They were Romney supporters for the most part. Palin may be McCain's way of gaining the conservative vote. From what I've seen of die-hard Hillary fans, they won't be won by Palin. I think all strategists know that. In addition, she is probably also brought on board for her youth in politics which can be viewed as "refreshing" ("change" also comes to mind). Reps make the case against Obama that we don't know what he will do, because he has very little voting record. Palin is in that same boat, which could be good if you want to make a case for being different than the politicians in Washington. Lastly, I've always thought that in general, women are more nurturing than men (Hillary being an exception to the norm). With her 5 kids, Palin will probably warm the hearts of many voters with a nurturing feeling, which I think is needed in this Country of hard lines.

Overall, I am impressed with McCain's campaign in some ways. He may be up there in age, but I think he took notes from Bob Dole, who failed miserable at relating to the people. He was too serious, and not personable at all, until after he lost. McCain is good at making jokes about himself, and that makes people see a different side of the serious McCain. I think people like that part. Obama is doing fine on his own, and adds his own twist, winning voters, though I think he might seem more likeable to others if he wasn't always so serious. I've seen the dancing videos, which is somewhat light and personable, but it seems a little stiff (not his dancing -- he's a good dancer). I'm sure he has to keep to the more serious side to be given credibility, so he may be more limited in what he can do with that aspect. America doesn't want a Dave Chapelle (comedian) as President.

I love the movie, "Dave." If you haven't seen it, watch it. If you have seen it, watch it again. Maybe we need a normal person to call BS on Congress.

[Geo]

I think he's just trying to go for the Hillary votes, but it will fail miserably in that aspect. They're polar opposites.

And...do we want this virtual novice who doesn't even know what a VP does (her words, not mine) one old heartbeat from the white house? I don't think it's such a good idea.

Agree or disagree?

[30ashopper]

I agree...Even South Park has it's Token.

As does the Democratic Party.

[Geo]

:lolabove:...Geo and his magic pot!

You probably meant magic post?
But feel free to share your magic pot anytime you are in SoWal!

:lol:

[Geo]

Agreed...and the democrats chose Obama because...?

30ashopper, SJ, et al:

Let's discuss why the Dems chose Obama or debate his experience (or lack thereof) on another thread. I know you think they are related/find parallels with my Palin question but you are missing a key distinction (which is exactly my point)-

The dems chose Obama in spite of his race and without regard for his gender...

But IMHO, Mccain chose Palin because of her gender.

The true apples to apples comparison here would be

Would the dems have chosen Obama if he was not black?
Or would the dems have chosen Obama if he was not male?
Or would Obama have chosen Biden if he was not male?

Thank you for not dodging the question and for being honest...

[Geo]

Both parties are pure strategy, not just the Reps.

I once lost a job to a female (i have no resentment toward females because of it). It was a gov't job and they told me straight up, that we were both equally qualified, but they are required to try balance their mix of employees based on race, age, sex, so they had to choose the female. Kind of sucks, but if all else being equal, it completely makes sense to me.

The question in this case of VP is, "is all else equal?" I think the answer would be no. McCain has lost his conservative base. Actually, he never had them. They were Romney supporters for the most part. Palin may be McCain's way of gaining the conservative vote. From what I've seen of die-hard Hillary fans, they won't be won by Palin. I think all strategists know that. In addition, she is probably also brought on board for her youth in politics which can be viewed as "refreshing" ("change" also comes to mind). Reps make the case against Obama that we don't know what he will do, because he has very little voting record. Palin is in that same boat, which could be good if you want to make a case for being different than the politicians in Washington. Lastly, I've always thought that in general, women are more nurturing than men (Hillary being an exception to the norm). With her 5 kids, Palin will probably warm the hearts of many voters with a nurturing feeling, which I think is needed in this Country of hard lines.

Overall, I am impressed with McCain's campaign in some ways. He may be up there in age, but I think he took notes from Bob Dole, who failed miserable at relating to the people. He was too serious, and not personable at all, until after he lost. McCain is good at making jokes about himself, and that makes people see a different side of the serious McCain. I think people like that part. Obama is doing fine on his own, and adds his own twist, winning voters, though I think he might seem more likeable to others if he wasn't always so serious. I've seen the dancing videos, which is somewhat light and personable, but it seems a little stiff (not his dancing -- he's a good dancer). I'm sure he has to keep to the more serious side to be given credibility, so he may be more limited in what he can do with that aspect. America doesn't want a Dave Chapelle (comedian) as President.

I love the movie, "Dave." If you haven't seen it, watch it. If you have seen it, watch it again. Maybe we need a normal person to call BS on Congress.

I love Dave and agree that outsiders with good common sense will do GREAT things in Washington...

While I agree that conservatives will love Palin's ideology, I disagree that she was chosen to keep the conservatives from voting elsewhere or not at all. Regardless of their threats, I think this is a group McCain can take for granted so long as he says the right things...

I believe McCain thinks this will land him some of the Hillary vote. And I think that he will fall short due to Palin's strong ProLife, Progun policies...

I am impressed at the campaign McCain is running in that the polls are so close between him and Obama after 8 years of George Bush. But I am sad to say that I believe iut is because of how effective the negative attacks have been...

Good stuff. I really enjoy the discussion...

[InletBchDweller]

On another thread I made a point and asked if anyone disagreed. Despite the fact that I was thanked, no one responded one way or the another. I am curious what ya'll think-

I believe if Palin was not a woman, McCain would not have picked her as his veep...

What do you think?
Agree or disagree?

Feel free to explain why if you like...

Thx for playing...

G

EDIT- I wanted to do a poll but couldn't find that feature... I agree but I am not unhappy with his pick.
Agreed...and the democrats chose Obama because...?
Do you not find it ironic that she is just as experienced as Obama, probably more so, and yet you think his election would be a good thing. double standard

You probably meant magic post?
But feel free to share your magic pot anytime you are in SoWal!

:lol: Kitty has magic pot???:lol:

[Miss Kitty]

You probably meant magic post?
But feel free to share your magic pot anytime you are in SoWal!

:lol:

No, I meant pot. As in stirring the pot, not the herb. ;-)

[Smiling JOe]

Geo,

Would the dems have chosen Obama if he was not black?
Or would the dems have chosen Obama if he was not male?
Or would Obama have chosen Biden if he was not male?

1) resonses are being posted on another new thread
2) I don't think Obama would have been chosen if he were female. Historically, most of the Dem Pres. nominees have been centrists, with a left leaning VP. Obama is reported to have the most left leaning voting record of all current Senators and his VP is supposedly number three, still leaning way left of center.
3) Biden would most definitely not been chosen if he were female. Doing so would be a HUGE slap in the face of Bill and Hillary Clinton, and they would have no chance at saving face, nor moving votes to Obama.

Going back to my answer, there may legitimate reasons other than Palin's sex which got her the nomination, but I'm leaning toward the idea that it was based mostly on the fact that she IS female, outside of Washington, and may add the look of change to McCain's look of the status quo. If he was going solely for a female to pull voters, he would have given it to a female with huge name recognition and model-like features, whom all the males would love to watch give a speech.

[JoshMclean]

I love Dave and agree that outsiders with good common sense will do GREAT things in Washington...

While I agree that conservatives will love Palin's ideology, I disagree that she was chosen to keep the conservatives from voting elsewhere or not at all. Regardless of their threats, I think this is a group McCain can take for granted so long as he says the right things...

I believe McCain thinks this will land him some of the Hillary vote. And I think that he will fall short due to Palin's strong ProLife, Progun policies...

I am impressed at the campaign McCain is running in that the polls are so close between him and Obama after 8 years of George Bush. But I am sad to say that I believe iut is because of how effective the negative attacks have been...

Good stuff. I really enjoy the discussion...

I have to disagree with you there Geo. I think Palin's choice was to solidify his conservative base. I know far too many conservatives that are not big Mccain fans and would not voted for him unless he went with a Palin or Huckabee typr figure. That includes Mitt Romney, who I personally would have liked. Not many Hilary supporters are going to swing their way now, although it wouldn't take many to change the election.

We all know that gun control and roe v. wade are not that big of issues amongst voters. People are more concerned with the economy, energy, Iraq, foreign policy, etc...

I fully agree that the Repubs can't really attack Obama for lack of experience now that they have chosen Palin. We are talking about a VP with little experience is who is stepping in behind a 70 yo man who has had health issues. We are also talking about a Presidential candidate with little experience to be running the country. He has run his campaign on CHANGE and chooses Joe Biden as his VP. To me the arguments from both sides are now null and void.

It looks like we may actually see a Presidential race based on who's the best person for the job. That's pretty exciting. Not to mention the fact that whatever the outcome, it will be a historical election in the history of our country.

[hnooe]

I agree!.

John and Sarah need to cozy up togeher more--I mean, I realize they have met just once...but it would have been nice if they chatted a few more times before the announcement, maybe online or something?

Anyway, I'd like them to both get up to speed as far as being a "team," with Mccain a little slow on the fact at times, there may be a major gaffe with the media if they are not in total lockstep on the issues.

[Smiling JOe]

hnooe2000, why should a Pres and VP be in lock-step? I would think they should be on the same team, but with individual thoughts which may bring forth well-rounded decisions. Who wants a Congress who all had the same thoughts, opinions and beliefs? We are a Country of people who come from very different backgrounds.

[jdarg]

I have to disagree with you there Geo. I think Palin's choice was to solidify his conservative base. I know far too many conservatives that are not big Mccain fans and would not voted for him unless he went with a Palin or Huckabee typr figure. That includes Mitt Romney, who I personally would have liked. Not many Hilary supporters are going to swing their way now, although it wouldn't take many to change the election.

We all know that gun control and roe v. wade are not that big of issues amongst voters. People are more concerned with the economy, energy, Iraq, foreign policy, etc...

I fully agree that the Repubs can't really attack Obama for lack of experience now that they have chosen Palin. We are talking about a VP with little experience is who is stepping in behind a 70 yo man who has had health issues. We are also talking about a Presidential candidate with little experience to be running the country. He has run his campaign on CHANGE and chooses Joe Biden as his VP. To me the arguments from both sides are now null and void.

It looks like we may actually see a Presidential race based on who's the best person for the job. That's pretty exciting. Not to mention the fact that whatever the outcome, it will be a historical election in the history of our country.

So who would these people vote for? Since the conservative base didn't have many outside options (other than just not vote), I think he could have gone with someone a bit more centrist. That would have pulled in some undecided voters and some Hillary supporters, since he has the conservative right of the party pretty much committed by default.

[JoshMclean]

So who would these people vote for? Since the conservative base didn't have many outside options (other than just not vote), I think he could have gone with someone a bit more centrist. That would have pulled in some undecided voters and some Hillary supporters, since he has the conservative right of the party pretty much committed by default.


Bingo!

[jdarg]

Bingo!

Honey, there is no way those people would stay home and take the chance on Obama becoming President!:lol:

[DuneLaker]

I think McCain knew a lot more about Palin than has been revealed at this point. U. S. Senator McCain serves with U.S. Senator (Bridge to Nowhere, Indicted) Ted Stevens. Palin openly disagreed with Ben Stevens, Ted's son, and defeated sitting Governor and former U.S. Senator Frank Murkowski. That she is a conservative and a woman will benefit his campaign.

[JoshMclean]

Honey, there is no way those people would stay home and take the chance on Obama becoming President!:lol:

Absolutely, many die hard conservatives would not vote if the Republicans don't put a true conservative on the ticket. Job's done, good decision ;-)

[Rita]

agree!

[Neu!Turismo]

Do you not find it ironic that she is just as experienced as Obama, probably more so, and yet you think his election would be a good thing.

There's no irony whatsoever. So Obama's not experienced enough? He has far more credentials and qualifications. He is also intellectual superior to her as well as McCain and vastly more sophisticated and nuanced in his positions and policy.

A little of his experience for the naysayers and misguided:

- B.A. Columbia University, 1983 - majored in political science with specialty in international relations
- worked at Business International Corporation & New York Public Research Interest Group
during his four post B.A. years in NYC
- community organizer, director of the Developing Communities Project in Chicago for three years
- J.D. (magna cum laude), Harvard Law School, 1991. President of Harvard Law Review.
- taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School for twelve years, as a Lecturer for four years (1992–1996), and as a Senior Lecturer for eight years (1996–2004)
- Member of the Illinois Senate from the 13th district, 1997-2004.
- Junior U.S. Senator from Illinois, 2005- present
- associate and counsel for the law firm, Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland, a Chicago law firm that specialized in civil rights and neighborhood economic development, 1993-2004.
- author of two New York Times bestseller books. And yes, he actually wrote his books. He didn't write them with the help of other authors, like Sen. McCain does with his books. He has and currently serves on multiple boards of directors.

Sen. Obama has served on:

The Senate Committees for Foreign Relations, Environment and Public Works and Veterans' Affairs Health, Education, Labor and Pensions and Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs.
He is the Chairman of the Senate's subcommittee on European Affairs.

I think it's safe to say the Sen. Obama surpasses Gov. Palin in the "experience" department.

I believe the Democrats have their man for the Oval Office.

[Miss Kitty]

There's no irony whatsoever. So Obama's not experienced enough? He has far more credentials and qualifications. He is also intellectual superior to her as well as McCain and vastly more sophisticated and nuanced in his positions and policy.

A little of his experience for the naysayers and misguided:

- B.A. Columbia University, 1983 - majored in political science with specialty in international relations
- worked at Business International Corporation & New York Public Research Interest Group
in during his four post B.A. years in NYC
- community organizer, director of the Developing Communities Project in Chicago for three years
- J.D. (magna cum laude), Harvard Law School, 1991. President of Harvard Law Review.
- taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School for twelve years, as a Lecturer for four years (1992–1996), and as a Senior Lecturer for eight years (1996–2004)
- Member of the Illinois Senate from the 13th district, 1997-2004.
- Junior U.S. Senator from Illinois, 2005- present
- associate and counsel for the law firm, Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland, a Chicago law firm that specialized in civil rights and neighborhood economic development, 1993-2004.
- author of two New York Times bestseller books. And yes, he actually wrote his books. He didn't write them with the help of other authors, like Sen. McCain does with his books. He has and currently serves on multiple boards of directors.

Sen. Obama has served on:

The Senate Committees for Foreign Relations, Environment and Public Works and Veterans' Affairs Health, Education, Labor and Pensions and Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs.
He is the Chairman of the Senate's subcommittee on European Affairs.

I think it's safe to say the Sen. Obama surpasses Gov. Palin in the "experience" department.

I believe the Democrats have their man for the Oval Office.

Thanks for the info...I could have done without the bolded part. :wave: Mr. Obama has plenty of credentials!

[analogman]

Do you not find it ironic that she is just as experienced as Obama, probably more so, and yet you think his election would be a good thing.

I don't think President Bush was very qualified in 2000, yet he was placed on the ballot by the Republican Party instead of Senator McCain. He surrounded himself with neo-cons with a faulty agenda and look what happened...quite a mess if you ask me. The Republicans made a huge mistake then and I don't think we should concede to their will in this election without close personal examination of all facts.

I think Senator Obama is much smarter than our current president and will do a better job of making the choices with the people he places around him. They will inform him better than President Bush has been advised. I think Senator Obama will make better decisions than we have had coming out of Washington in a very long time.

This election year we finally have an extremely good choice of two candidates, but I think it's time for a substantial change of leadership in Washington and don't believe Senator McCain is that change. I believe he is just a part of the status quo.

Whichever way the election turns out, we'll have a better leader in the White House than we do now.

As far as Governor Palin goes, we'll see what happens. But I think this is just another example of faulty Republican strategy and the McCain camp.

Geo : this means I agree.

As far as Senator Obama's qualifications, read Neu! Turismo's post. Does anyone out there that is speaking so highly of Governor Palin's qualifications have a similar list? I would like to know more about her (NOT trying to be cynical here, just curious).

[Santiago]

There's no irony whatsoever. So Obama's not experienced enough? He has far more credentials and qualifications. He is also intellectual superior to her as well as McCain and vastly more sophisticated and nuanced in his positions and policy.

A little of his experience for the naysayers and misguided:

- B.A. Columbia University, 1983 - majored in political science with specialty in international relations
- worked at Business International Corporation & New York Public Research Interest Group
in during his four post B.A. years in NYC
- community organizer, director of the Developing Communities Project in Chicago for three years
- J.D. (magna cum laude), Harvard Law School, 1991. President of Harvard Law Review.
- taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School for twelve years, as a Lecturer for four years (1992–1996), and as a Senior Lecturer for eight years (1996–2004)
- Member of the Illinois Senate from the 13th district, 1997-2004.
- Junior U.S. Senator from Illinois, 2005- present
- associate and counsel for the law firm, Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland, a Chicago law firm that specialized in civil rights and neighborhood economic development, 1993-2004.
- author of two New York Times bestseller books. And yes, he actually wrote his books. He didn't write them with the help of other authors, like Sen. McCain does with his books. He has and currently serves on multiple boards of directors.

Sen. Obama has served on:

The Senate Committees for Foreign Relations, Environment and Public Works and Veterans' Affairs Health, Education, Labor and Pensions and Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs.
He is the Chairman of the Senate's subcommittee on European Affairs.

I think it's safe to say the Sen. Obama surpasses Gov. Palin in the "experience" department.

I believe the Democrats have their man for the Oval Office.

Sorry but you are not going to sway me. Al Gore went to Yale so its safe to say that Ivy League schools admit dumbasses. According to Bill Clinton, he(Obama) was basically a senator for one year and began campaigning for President which is a full time job. All new senators are given committee assignments so I would not call that a great achievement. We are down to him lecturing at a college, which I admit he is good at lecturing others, and being a community organizer. I am somewhat of a community organizer as I coach little league sports and I would be a crappy president. He has no executive level experience like Gov. Palin and is completely clueless in regards to foreign policy. He may turn out to be great but you can't tell that from his experience.

[Santiago]

Sorry but you are not going to sway me. Al Gore went to Yale so its safe to say that Ivy League schools admit dumbasses. According to Bill Clinton, he(Obama) was basically a senator for one year and began campaigning for President which is a full time job. All new senators are given committee assignments so I would not call that a great achievement. We are down to him lecturing at a college, which I admit he is good at lecturing others, and being a community organizer. I am somewhat of a community organizer as I coach little league sports and I would be a crappy president. He has no executive level experience like Gov. Palin and is completely clueless in regards to foreign policy. He may turn out to be great but you can't tell that from his experience.

Oh and I almost forgot, give me an unsophisticated outdoorsman(lady) who will protect my second amendment rights over a sophisticated lefty who preaches class envy and thinks he can change the world. The arrogance of the far left is astonishing and its even more astonishing how many seemingly middle of the road people fall for it.

[Chickpea]

Geo: I agree


Palin will appeal to the the very conservative and evangelical base of the Republican party that felt alienated and feared not being properly represented by McCain should he win this election. mcCain picked Palin in part because she is a woman but also because she has a 2 year reputation for fighting corruption and being a reformer.

I personally do not think it was a smart choice although her life story certainly seems compelling and commendable (just having 5 kids and working full time is a big deal in my eyes!!) - I just disagree with her positions on quite a few issues and it seems to me that all of the Hillary supporters who are pro-choice could not support her (she is so pro-life that she even thinks that a woman who finds herself pregnant by rape or incest should bring the child to term!) - I am thankful as I believe thad HAD McCain picked someone a little less ultra conservative it would have peeled off quite a few independents. I think the people who are thrilled with this choice would have voted with McCain regardless....

As a democrat I certainly feared Romney much more who is much more qualified.

And FWIW - many people who were on the fence about Obama were relieved by his choice in Biden - I have yet to hear anyone who is disappointed by this choice.

[Chickpea]

Oh and I almost forgot, give me an unsophisticated outdoorsman(lady) who will protect my second amendment rights over a sophisticated lefty who preaches class envy and thinks he can change the world. The arrogance of the far left is astonishing and its even more astonishing how many seemingly middle of the road people fall for it.

What specifically do you find so arrogant in the stance of Obama supporters?

[analogman]

Sorry but you are not going to sway me. Al Gore went to Yale so its safe to say that Ivy League schools admit dumbasses. According to Bill Clinton, he(Obama) was basically a senator for one year and began campaigning for President which is a full time job. All new senators are given committee assignments so I would not call that a great achievement. We are down to him lecturing at a college, which I admit he is good at lecturing others, and being a community organizer. I am somewhat of a community organizer as I coach little league sports and I would be a crappy president. He has no executive level experience like Gov. Palin and is completely clueless in regards to foreign policy. He may turn out to be great but you can't tell that from his experience.

The Nobel Peace Prize committee doesn't think Al Gore is such a dumbass...and yes he attended Yale, as did President Bush who graduated with a lower grade point average than Gore.

And why do some think insults will make a point better than simple facts.

[rapunzel]

The difference between Obama and Palin vis a vis experience -- he has deep and thoughtful positions on all the issues, and he has written books on his political views and post-partisanship. He is a brilliant legal mind. He worked as a community organizer for more than a decade before holding elected office. He represented the south side of Chicago for 12 years in the legislature, Sarah Palin was mayor of a town the size of Paxton. He's been a leader in the Senate from the day he arrived there four years ago, Sarah Palin has been the governor of a state with a population smaller than the average congressional district for 16 months. Obama was a professor of constitutional law when Sarah Palin was a sports reporter for the local news.

If you support Sarah Palin on the issues, great. But to compare her experience to Obama's and deem them at all similar is just a total crock.

Oh, and Obama won an election to earn his place -- so don't call him a token. He fought and earned the nomination, rather than being selected by a search committee.

[rapunzel]

Oh and I almost forgot, give me an unsophisticated outdoorsman(lady) who will protect my second amendment rights over a sophisticated lefty who preaches class envy and thinks he can change the world. The arrogance of the far left is astonishing and its even more astonishing how many seemingly middle of the road people fall for it.

Is this how you would make a hiring decision in your business? Relatibility over qualifications?

[Camp Creek Kid]

I guess that Democrats are a wee bit scared of Sarah Palin if the only criticism they can find is that she was picked because she is a woman. Obama had the chance to pick a woman VP and he rejected her and instead picked a middle aged white guy who has been in Washington since he was 29.

McCain picked Palin for the whole package. She is a REAL person, someone who has lived the life that most of us live--someone who WORKED her way through life. That is what appeals to me the most. She is a true conservative and, by picking a true conservative, McCain has signaled to the conservative base, which he has distanced himself from during this whole campaign, that he is willing to work with then and for them.

Aside from Bobby Jindal, I can't think of even a young Republican man who has the same qualifications, energy, life story, and integrity that Sarah Palin possesses. To say that McCain picked her just because she is a woman is akin to me accusing you who voted for Obama for doing so just because he is 1/2 African American. Well, Sarah Palin is all woman and I couldn't be more thrilled that she is on the ticket. I am so excited for my daughter to have this woman as a role model and for myself as well. You see, conservatives in American still believe that hard work and determination can get you somewhere. Sarah Palin proves that this is true.

[goodwitch58]

Since when did conservatives have a lock on hard work and determination....:idontno:

[jdarg]

Since when did conservatives have a lock on hard work and determination....:idontno:

I don't know! Fortunately those kind of comments really amuse me.:floor:

[Chickpea]

I guess that Democrats are a wee bit scared of Sarah Palin if the only criticism they can find is that she was picked because she is a woman. Obama had the chance to pick a woman VP and he rejected her and instead picked a middle aged white guy who has been in Washington since he was 29.

McCain picked Palin for the whole package. She is a REAL person, someone who has lived the life that most of us live--someone who WORKED her way through life. That is what appeals to me the most. She is a true conservative and, by picking a true conservative, McCain has signaled to the conservative base, which he has distanced himself from during this whole campaign, that he is willing to work with then and for them.

Aside from Bobby Jindal, I can't think of even a young Republican man who has the same qualifications, energy, life story, and integrity that Sarah Palin possesses. To say that McCain picked her just because she is a woman is akin to me accusing you who voted for Obama for doing so just because he is 1/2 African American. Well, Sarah Palin is all woman and I couldn't be more thrilled that she is on the ticket. I am so excited for my daughter to have this woman as a role model and for myself as well. You see, conservatives in American still believe that hard work and determination can get you somewhere. Sarah Palin proves that this is true.

CCK: I totally respect your positions and am happy you are thrilled with this choice - per an earlier post of mine, I have zero interest in tearing her or McCain apart. I will happily leave that to others.

BUT I will tell you that all the democrats I have spoken to are not remotely scared of her - she will appeal to those true conservatives and it is unlikely that she will gain alot of the independents....

Now, Romney would have left me a wee scared!!!

[analogman]

I guess that Democrats are a wee bit scared of Sarah Palin if the only criticism they can find is that she was picked because she is a woman. Obama had the chance to pick a woman VP and he rejected her and instead picked a middle aged white guy who has been in Washington since he was 29.

McCain picked Palin for the whole package. She is a REAL person, someone who has lived the life that most of us live--someone who WORKED her way through life. That is what appeals to me the most. She is a true conservative and, by picking a true conservative, McCain has signaled to the conservative base, which he has distanced himself from during this whole campaign, that he is willing to work with then and for them.

Aside from Bobby Jindal, I can't think of even a young Republican man who has the same qualifications, energy, life story, and integrity that Sarah Palin possesses. To say that McCain picked her just because she is a woman is akin to me accusing you who voted for Obama for doing so just because he is 1/2 African American. Well, Sarah Palin is all woman and I couldn't be more thrilled that she is on the ticket. I am so excited for my daughter to have this woman as a role model and for myself as well. You see, conservatives in American still believe that hard work and determination can get you somewhere. Sarah Palin proves that this is true.

But, how does that make her, potentially, qualified to be the President of the United States if something happens to Senator (if President) McCain (God forbid). Somebody please throw me a factual information bone about Governor Palin. I'm REALLY curious!

[Camp Creek Kid]

Since when did conservatives have a lock on hard work and determination....:idontno:

I don't know, I just like a party that allows ME to benefit from My hard work.

INTERESTING DATA ON TAXES
Proposed changes in taxes after the 2008 General election:

CAPITAL GAINS TAX

MCCAIN
0% on home sales up to $500,000 per home (couples). McCain does not propose any change in existing home sales income tax.

OBAMA
28% on profit from ALL home sales

How does this affect you? If you sell your home and make a profit, you will pay 28% of your gain on taxes. If you are heading toward retirement and would like to downsize your home or move into a retirement community, 28% of the money you make from your home will go to taxes. This proposal will adversely affect the elderly who are counting on the income from their homes as part of their retirement income.

DIVIDEND TAX

MCCAIN 15% (no change)

OBAMA 39.6%

How will this affect you? If you have any money invested in stock market, IRA, mutual funds, college funds, life insurance, retirement accounts, or anything that pays or reinvests dividends, you will now be paying nearly 40% of the money earned on taxes if Obama becomes president. The experts predict that 'Higher tax rates on dividends and capital gains would crash the stock market, yet do absolutely nothing to cut the deficit.'

INCOME TAX

MCCAIN (no changes)

Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $31,250

OBAMA (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)

Single making 30K - tax $8,400
Single making 50K - tax $14,000
Single making 75K - tax $23,250
Married making 60K - tax $16,800
Married making 75K - tax $21,000
Married making 125K - tax $38,750

Under Obama, your taxes could almost double!

INHERITANCE TAX

MCCAIN 0% (No change, Bush repealed this tax)

OBAMA Restore the inheritance tax

Many families have lost businesses, farms, ranches, and homes that have been in their families for generations because they could not afford the inheritance tax. Those willing their assets to loved ones will only lose them to these taxes.

NEW TAXES PROPOSED BY OBAMA

New government taxes proposed on homes that are more than 2400 square feet.

New gasoline taxes

New taxes on natural resources consumption (heating gas, water, electricity)

New taxes on retirement accounts

New taxes to pay for socialized medicine

[Camp Creek Kid]

But, how does that make her, potentially, qualified to be the President of the United States if something happens to Senator (if President) McCain (God forbid). Somebody please throw me a factual information bone about Governor Palin. I'm REALLY curious!

Google her bio.

[analogman]

Google her bio.

I did Google her bio and don't see anything that would make me want her in the White House...whether the bio was about a man or woman. But I respect your opinion of her anyway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin

[analogman]

I don't know, I just like a party that allows ME to benefit from My hard work.

INTERESTING DATA ON TAXES
Proposed changes in taxes after the 2008 General election:

CAPITAL GAINS TAX

MCCAIN
0% on home sales up to $500,000 per home (couples). McCain does not propose any change in existing home sales income tax.

OBAMA
28% on profit from ALL home sales

How does this affect you? If you sell your home and make a profit, you will pay 28% of your gain on taxes. If you are heading toward retirement and would like to downsize your home or move into a retirement community, 28% of the money you make from your home will go to taxes. This proposal will adversely affect the elderly who are counting on the income from their homes as part of their retirement income.

DIVIDEND TAX

MCCAIN 15% (no change)

OBAMA 39.6%

How will this affect you? If you have any money invested in stock market, IRA, mutual funds, college funds, life insurance, retirement accounts, or anything that pays or reinvests dividends, you will now be paying nearly 40% of the money earned on taxes if Obama becomes president. The experts predict that 'Higher tax rates on dividends and capital gains would crash the stock market, yet do absolutely nothing to cut the deficit.'

INCOME TAX

MCCAIN (no changes)

Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $31,250

OBAMA (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)

Single making 30K - tax $8,400
Single making 50K - tax $14,000
Single making 75K - tax $23,250
Married making 60K - tax $16,800
Married making 75K - tax $21,000
Married making 125K - tax $38,750

Under Obama, your taxes could almost double!

INHERITANCE TAX

MCCAIN 0% (No change, Bush repealed this tax)

OBAMA Restore the inheritance tax

Many families have lost businesses, farms, ranches, and homes that have been in their families for generations because they could not afford the inheritance tax. Those willing their assets to loved ones will only lose them to these taxes.

NEW TAXES PROPOSED BY OBAMA

New government taxes proposed on homes that are more than 2400 square feet.

New gasoline taxes

New taxes on natural resources consumption (heating gas, water, electricity)

New taxes on retirement accounts

New taxes to pay for socialized medicine

CCK, where did you get this info? To my understanding Senator Obama wants to revoke tax cuts only on those making more than $227,000, not completely to pre-Bush levels.

[rapunzel]

I guess that Democrats are a wee bit scared of Sarah Palin if the only criticism they can find is that she was picked because she is a woman. Obama had the chance to pick a woman VP and he rejected her and instead picked a middle aged white guy who has been in Washington since he was 29.

McCain picked Palin for the whole package. She is a REAL person, someone who has lived the life that most of us live--someone who WORKED her way through life. That is what appeals to me the most. She is a true conservative and, by picking a true conservative, McCain has signaled to the conservative base, which he has distanced himself from during this whole campaign, that he is willing to work with then and for them.

Aside from Bobby Jindal, I can't think of even a young Republican man who has the same qualifications, energy, life story, and integrity that Sarah Palin possesses. To say that McCain picked her just because she is a woman is akin to me accusing you who voted for Obama for doing so just because he is 1/2 African American. Well, Sarah Palin is all woman and I couldn't be more thrilled that she is on the ticket. I am so excited for my daughter to have this woman as a role model and for myself as well. You see, conservatives in American still believe that hard work and determination can get you somewhere. Sarah Palin proves that this is true.

Do you believe she is more qualified to lead than Mitt Romney?

[goodwitch58]

Camp Creek Kid:

I am really trying to understand your thinking?:

If you wanted a conservative role model why not find one that also has some substance:

Like,

Christine Todd Whitman
Kay Baily Hutchinson
Elizabeth Dole
Susan Collins
Condi Rice
Carly Fiorina

and that's just off the top of my head. Any of these women would have value add to the McCain ticket. Palin, not so much.

Why would Senator McCain trust his presidency to a person he had only talked two twice when all these people, and many others, were available.

:confused::idontno:

[Geo]

Do you not find it ironic that she is just as experienced as Obama, probably more so, and yet you think his election would be a good thing.

No. Not at all...

Your post reminds me of the Alanis Morrisette song when she labels a whole bunch of things lacking irony as "ironic"...

[olive]

No. Not at all...

Your post reminds me of the Alanis Morrisette song when she labels a whole bunch of things lacking irony as "ironic"...

:floor::floor::floor:

[Geo]

There's no irony whatsoever. So Obama's not experienced enough? He has far more credentials and qualifications. He is also intellectual superior to her as well as McCain and vastly more sophisticated and nuanced in his positions and policy.

A little of his experience for the naysayers and misguided:

- B.A. Columbia University, 1983 - majored in political science with specialty in international relations
- worked at Business International Corporation & New York Public Research Interest Group
during his four post B.A. years in NYC
- community organizer, director of the Developing Communities Project in Chicago for three years
- J.D. (magna cum laude), Harvard Law School, 1991. President of Harvard Law Review.
- taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School for twelve years, as a Lecturer for four years (1992–1996), and as a Senior Lecturer for eight years (1996–2004)
- Member of the Illinois Senate from the 13th district, 1997-2004.
- Junior U.S. Senator from Illinois, 2005- present
- associate and counsel for the law firm, Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland, a Chicago law firm that specialized in civil rights and neighborhood economic development, 1993-2004.
- author of two New York Times bestseller books. And yes, he actually wrote his books. He didn't write them with the help of other authors, like Sen. McCain does with his books. He has and currently serves on multiple boards of directors.

Sen. Obama has served on:

The Senate Committees for Foreign Relations, Environment and Public Works and Veterans' Affairs Health, Education, Labor and Pensions and Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs.
He is the Chairman of the Senate's subcommittee on European Affairs.

I think it's safe to say the Sen. Obama surpasses Gov. Palin in the "experience" department.

I believe the Democrats have their man for the Oval Office.

Thx. Stop lurking and post more often!

:welcome:

[rapunzel]

I guess that Democrats are a wee bit scared of Sarah Palin if the only criticism they can find is that she was picked because she is a woman. Obama had the chance to pick a woman VP and he rejected her and instead picked a middle aged white guy who has been in Washington since he was 29.

McCain picked Palin for the whole package. She is a REAL person, someone who has lived the life that most of us live--someone who WORKED her way through life. That is what appeals to me the most. She is a true conservative and, by picking a true conservative, McCain has signaled to the conservative base, which he has distanced himself from during this whole campaign, that he is willing to work with then and for them.

Aside from Bobby Jindal, I can't think of even a young Republican man who has the same qualifications, energy, life story, and integrity that Sarah Palin possesses. To say that McCain picked her just because she is a woman is akin to me accusing you who voted for Obama for doing so just because he is 1/2 African American. Well, Sarah Palin is all woman and I couldn't be more thrilled that she is on the ticket. I am so excited for my daughter to have this woman as a role model and for myself as well. You see, conservatives in American still believe that hard work and determination can get you somewhere. Sarah Palin proves that this is true.

Do you believe she is more qualified to lead than Mitt Romney?

Here's some sourced material on tax impact:


MCCAIN OBAMA
Income Avg. tax bill Avg. tax bill
Over $2.9M -$269,364 +$701,885
$603K and up -$45,361 +$115,974
$227K-$603K -$7,871 +$12
$161K-$227K -$4,380 -$2,789
$112K-$161K -$2,614 -$2,204
$66K-$112K -$1,009 -$1,290
$38K-$66K -$319 -$1,042
$19K-$38K -$113 -$892
Under $19K -$19 -$567
Source:The Tax Policy Center

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/11/news/economy/candidates_taxproposals_tpc/index.htm

My question -- what would the McCain plan do to the value of the dollar and the deficit? How would that impact real wealth for those in the top 1% ($603,000 +) and top .001 ($2.9M +)?

[Geo]

Sorry but you are not going to sway me. Al Gore went to Yale so its safe to say that Ivy League schools admit dumbasses.

Al Gore- a dumas?
This is good stuff!
:lol:

I am keeping this one for my "Best of Santiago" file...

:clap:

[analogman]

:lolabove:

[analogman]

I don't know, I just like a party that allows ME to benefit from My hard work.

INTERESTING DATA ON TAXES
Proposed changes in taxes after the 2008 General election:

CAPITAL GAINS TAX

MCCAIN
0% on home sales up to $500,000 per home (couples). McCain does not propose any change in existing home sales income tax.

OBAMA
28% on profit from ALL home sales

How does this affect you? If you sell your home and make a profit, you will pay 28% of your gain on taxes. If you are heading toward retirement and would like to downsize your home or move into a retirement community, 28% of the money you make from your home will go to taxes. This proposal will adversely affect the elderly who are counting on the income from their homes as part of their retirement income.

DIVIDEND TAX

MCCAIN 15% (no change)

OBAMA 39.6%

How will this affect you? If you have any money invested in stock market, IRA, mutual funds, college funds, life insurance, retirement accounts, or anything that pays or reinvests dividends, you will now be paying nearly 40% of the money earned on taxes if Obama becomes president. The experts predict that 'Higher tax rates on dividends and capital gains would crash the stock market, yet do absolutely nothing to cut the deficit.'

INCOME TAX

MCCAIN (no changes)

Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $31,250

OBAMA (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)

Single making 30K - tax $8,400
Single making 50K - tax $14,000
Single making 75K - tax $23,250
Married making 60K - tax $16,800
Married making 75K - tax $21,000
Married making 125K - tax $38,750

Under Obama, your taxes could almost double!

INHERITANCE TAX

MCCAIN 0% (No change, Bush repealed this tax)

OBAMA Restore the inheritance tax

Many families have lost businesses, farms, ranches, and homes that have been in their families for generations because they could not afford the inheritance tax. Those willing their assets to loved ones will only lose them to these taxes.

NEW TAXES PROPOSED BY OBAMA

New government taxes proposed on homes that are more than 2400 square feet.

New gasoline taxes

New taxes on natural resources consumption (heating gas, water, electricity)

New taxes on retirement accounts

New taxes to pay for socialized medicine

I think punzy's posted web link gives a clearer view of what the reality of proposed tax changes will be under a new admistration - McCain vs. Obama.

Please everyone, have a look here:
http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/11/news..._tpc/index.htm (http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/11/news/economy/candidates_taxproposals_tpc/index.htm)

I think this is a better example of the reality of the Obama tax proposal.

[Johnrudy]

Geo, I am in total agreement.

Great, helpful, and interesting thread! :clap:

BTW, I've about worn out my "thanks" button! :lol:

[full time]

Al Gore- a dumas?
This is good stuff!
:lol:

I am keeping this one for my "Best of Santiago" file...

:clap:

Al gore is no dumbass. You have to be brilliant to convince half the country and most of the world that people should give up driving SUVs in exchange for a slick ride in the fruity Prius, all to save the polar bears - and to do this while flying around in a private jet and living in a mansion. No, Al Gore is one smart cookie ......... it's the people who actually believe a word out of his mouth that qualify for the dumbass label.

[jdarg]

Al gore is no dumbass. You have to be brilliant to convince half the country and most of the world that people should give up driving SUVs in exchange for a slick ride in the fruity Prius, all to save the polar bears - and to do this while flying around in a private jet and living in a mansion. No, Al Gore is one smart cookie ......... it's the people who actually believe a word out of his mouth that qualify for the dumbass label.

And since you know full well that many posters on this board admire and respect Al Gore (or you wouldn't have posted this), your comment is a personal attack too, and rude.

Geez- I just had to say this same thing on another thread. :roll:

[analogman]

Al gore is no dumbass. You have to be brilliant to convince half the country and most of the world that people should give up driving SUVs in exchange for a slick ride in the fruity Prius, all to save the polar bears - and to do this while flying around in a private jet and living in a mansion. No, Al Gore is one smart cookie ......... it's the people who actually believe a word out of his mouth that qualify for the dumbass label.

So, in your words, half of the country and most of the world are dumbasses. Wow, how does it feel to be in such a tiny minority of world citizens?:wacko:

[full time]

What specifically do you find so arrogant in the stance of Obama supporters?

Let me see ........ uh ..........Turismo calls Obama an "intellectual superior" and "vastly more nuanced" than McCain and Palin. I can just hear Turismo making this comment in a thick Brittish accent that makes the average American wanna puke. Is that specific enough?

[full time]

So, in your words, half of the country and most of the world are dumbasses. Wow, how does it feel to be in such a tiny minority of world citizens?:wacko:

Are you surprised by this revelation?

[analogman]

Let me see ........ uh ..........Turismo calls Obama an "intellectual superior" and "vastly more nuanced" than McCain and Palin. I can just hear Turismo making this comment in a thick Brittish accent that makes the average American wanna puke. Is that specific enough?

You mean the British...one of the few staunch allies we have in this world? And, boy, you rank up there with Santiago in rudeness factor. I give you an 81/2 out of 10.

[Rita]

Geo, I am in total agreement.

Great, helpful, and interesting thread! :clap:

BTW, I've about worn out my "thanks" button! :lol:

:lol:..Me too! I love not having to do all my own research. Just keep laying it in my lap folks. I'll try to keep checking for validity.

.

[analogman]

Are you surprised by this revelation?

I assume you meant that it is a revelation to me that half of the country and most of the world are dumbasses? I think it is an abomination! No, I don't think that half the country and most of the world are dumbasses, but your arrogance is an abomination. And if this is where the thread is headed, I'm fed up with it...and people like you.

[analogman]

Geo, you started all of this. What a thread. :yikes:I love it! What do you think of where went, though? It seems to be getting a little convoluted and away from you're original intent, doesn't it?

I still agree!

[Camp Creek Kid]

Camp Creek Kid:

I am really trying to understand your thinking?:

If you wanted a conservative role model why not find one that also has some substance:

Like,

Christine Todd Whitman
Kay Baily Hutchinson
Elizabeth Dole
Susan Collins
Condi Rice
Carly Fiorina

and that's just off the top of my head. Any of these women would have value add to the McCain ticket. Palin, not so much.

Why would Senator McCain trust his presidency to a person he had only talked two twice when all these people, and many others, were available.

:confused::idontno:

The fact that I like Palin does not discount the women you mentioned. I would have likewise been happy with many of them as VP nominee. I don't know what it is so hard to understand why I like Palin. I think she is a great choice--plain and simple.

[Chickpea]

Let me see ........ uh ..........Turismo calls Obama an "intellectual superior" and "vastly more nuanced" than McCain and Palin. I can just hear Turismo making this comment in a thick Brittish accent that makes the average American wanna puke. Is that specific enough?

Not remotely - I am actually trying to elevate the debate to beyond abstract soundbites - I have no idea what you are trying to say with the above statement.

[Geo]

For my friend Full Time:

On another thread I said-


If you used your real name and picture on SoWal so that you were no longer anonymous, would you still be so obnoxius and disingenuous in your postings?

My name is George and I live in SRB. My picture is my avatar. Why not introduce yourself sometime if/when you see me around...

Perhaps then you would be more willing to disagree like an adult...

You replied with-

I wish to remain anonymous because you seem upset, and I do not wish to be sucker punched while enjoying a cold beer this weekend. I'll refrain from further participation in your poll.

So I reached out to you with an olive branch trying to keep things light hearted-


So I shared your reply above with my wife and she got a kick out of it. She said I should tell you not to worry and that her husband has been ticking people off on SoWal.com for over a year and a half with little to no anonymity and he still hasn't been slugged (yet)...

If you see me, say hi. I'll buy you a beer and promise not to resort to any physical violence...



You did not reciprocate there. And now you call me a Dumas (along with many others) here in this thread.

Nice…

:clap:

Maybe you were right when you said you should stay anonymous for fear of getting punched at the bar?

:eek:

:lol:

[goodwitch58]

The fact that I like Palin does not discount the women you mentioned. I would have likewise been happy with many of them as VP nominee. I don't know what it is so hard to understand why I like Palin. I think she is a great choice--plain and simple.

It is fine with me if you like her.

I am just trying to understand what she brings to the McCain ticket. I truly can not see it and I can see it with all the others (and many more) that I listed. From what I read, there are many republican/conservatives who do not understand it either.

From a political strategy point of view what does she add? and what does she offer that is different from all those other women who would make a more effective role model IMO. Condi Rice and Elizabeth Dole certainly are women who I would think are positive role models for young conservative women...from my perspective of many years of being involved in political stratgegy and campaigns, I can not see what she brings to the ticket; but, I can see lots of things she takes away from the strategy of winning. I am having a hard time seeing the positive here--Senator McCain was running a pretty solid campaign--this pick seems to jeopardize that, not help it.

That's what I was asking.

[Santiago]

Is this how you would make a hiring decision in your business? Relatibility over qualifications?

No. And you have told me anything that makes him qualified. Wrote books, give me a break. He has not been a leader of the Senate, he has been an absentee member. Lastly, you don't have a clue how thoughtful his positions are. He is coached by his handlers, as is McCain. I don't think he's had an original thought that you can prove was his since he became a public figure. You like the guy, that's great, let's leave it at that. He may make a great president, but probably not if you are not interested in the U.S. moving further toward Socialism. The argument that he is qualified based on the books, lecturing, community organizing, etc. is BS. He may be brilliant, I don't know and I'm not going to say he's not, but his qualifications and acheivements are very modest for a President. I just know that this country needs a strong commander in cheif and we don't need more government programs, spending and more taxes. That will without a doubt spell doom for our economy. Hey, if he wins, it seems like that will make you happy and that's great. It scares the hell out of me unless he moves way over to the middle. I guess that could happen but his distinguished senatorial career says otherwise.

[analogman]

Geo:

If I ever see you, or you me (my picture is in my only album in my profile), I'll buy you a beer and we two dumbasses can sit down and count our blessings...that we are fortunate to live here and are not like some of the anonymous snipers we find on Sowal. I don't agree with half of what I read on Sowal, but I do respect others for having intelligent opinions and enjoy having stimulating discussions with them.

Best regards,

Danny

[Johnrudy]

Al gore is no dumbass. You have to be brilliant to convince half the country and most of the world that people should give up driving SUVs in exchange for a slick ride in the fruity Prius, all to save the polar bears - and to do this while flying around in a private jet and living in a mansion. No, Al Gore is one smart cookie ......... it's the people who actually believe a word out of his mouth that qualify for the dumbass label.

:blink:

[Santiago]

Al Gore- a dumas?
This is good stuff!
:lol:

I am keeping this one for my "Best of Santiago" file...

:clap:

Why don't you do that. I can stomach the Obama worship, although I think he's too liberal to be our president. Gore on the other hand is a complete nut job. You loose all credibility with me when you defend him. I'm not looking for a fight, I can see the appeal in Obama, I just think his policies are wrong. I could have a beer, I mean a glass of white wine with him. By the way, I'm having a glass of white wine now.

[Miss Kitty]

Geo:

If I ever see you, or you me (my picture is in my only album in my profile), I'll buy you a beer and we two dumbasses can sit down and count our blessings...that we are fortunate to live here and are not like some of the anonymous snipers we find on Sowal. I don't agree with half of what I read on Sowal, but I do respect others for having intelligent opinions and enjoy having stimulating discussions with them.

Best regards,

Danny

:clap:...another match made on sowal.com!

[analogman]

I love you too Miss Kitty!
:wave:

[NoHall]

I have just gotten around to reading this thread, and only got through the first page (and am about to go to bed. But I thought this was interesting (as are most of jdarg's posts!):

So who would these people vote for? Since the conservative base didn't have many outside options (other than just not vote), I think he could have gone with someone a bit more centrist. That would have pulled in some undecided voters and some Hillary supporters, since he has the conservative right of the party pretty much committed by default.

Honey, there is no way those people would stay home and take the chance on Obama becoming President!:lol:

I'm not crazy in love with McCain and was facing this question myself. Despite my deep fondness for Punzy, my overwhelming feeling about Obama is fear. These are my options:


Vote for Barr, which would ultimately be a wasted vote and the equivalent of a vote for Obama.
Stay home--don't vote
Vote for McCain half-heartedly.

I was recently chosen for a job over 2 men for a job that is historically male. (All my mail and email that comes to the school is addressed Dear Sir...) I don't think I was hired because I am female; I was probably hired in spite of it. I just put in a 58 hour week; there is some pressure to keep up that I've never had before.

My point is that even if Palin was chosen because of her gender, I have a feeling that she will work twice as hard because she isn't an old white man. Just like Hillary did, and just like Obama is working. Underdogs tend to do that, and this is why I'm excited about the McCain/Palin ticket.

[goodwitch58]

I my overwhelming feeling about Obama is fear. :[

Forgive me if you have addressed this before, but will you expand on what it is you fear?

If you don't want to, that's okay too, of course. It just surprises me and I would like to understand it.

[analogman]

I'm not crazy in love with McCain my overwhelming feeling about Obama is fear.

Maybe a little time and research will help you get over your fear. I hope so. Fear is an enemy that does no good for anyone. Reading the other two pages of this thread may help you some. Also try going here and looking under "issues" (don't click on issues, just hold your pointer over the catagory to see the list) for more info:

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/

Best of luck to you with your decision.

[TooFarTampa]

The information in the below post apparently comes from a widely circulated email and is almost entirely false.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/would_obama_tax_my_profits_if_i.html

Alert readers may already have noted that this chain e-mail does not provide links to any of Obama's actual proposals or cite any sources for the claims it makes. That is because they are made up.This widely distributed message is so full of misinformation that we find it impossible to believe that it is the result of simple ignorance or carelessness on the part of the writer. Almost nothing it says about Obama's tax proposals is true. We conclude that this deception is deliberate.


I don't know, I just like a party that allows ME to benefit from My hard work.

INTERESTING DATA ON TAXES
Proposed changes in taxes after the 2008 General election:

CAPITAL GAINS TAX

MCCAIN
0% on home sales up to $500,000 per home (couples). McCain does not propose any change in existing home sales income tax.

OBAMA
28% on profit from ALL home sales

How does this affect you? If you sell your home and make a profit, you will pay 28% of your gain on taxes. If you are heading toward retirement and would like to downsize your home or move into a retirement community, 28% of the money you make from your home will go to taxes. This proposal will adversely affect the elderly who are counting on the income from their homes as part of their retirement income.

DIVIDEND TAX

MCCAIN 15% (no change)

OBAMA 39.6%

How will this affect you? If you have any money invested in stock market, IRA, mutual funds, college funds, life insurance, retirement accounts, or anything that pays or reinvests dividends, you will now be paying nearly 40% of the money earned on taxes if Obama becomes president. The experts predict that 'Higher tax rates on dividends and capital gains would crash the stock market, yet do absolutely nothing to cut the deficit.'

INCOME TAX

MCCAIN (no changes)

Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $31,250

OBAMA (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)

Single making 30K - tax $8,400
Single making 50K - tax $14,000
Single making 75K - tax $23,250
Married making 60K - tax $16,800
Married making 75K - tax $21,000
Married making 125K - tax $38,750

Under Obama, your taxes could almost double!

INHERITANCE TAX

MCCAIN 0% (No change, Bush repealed this tax)

OBAMA Restore the inheritance tax

Many families have lost businesses, farms, ranches, and homes that have been in their families for generations because they could not afford the inheritance tax. Those willing their assets to loved ones will only lose them to these taxes.

NEW TAXES PROPOSED BY OBAMA

New government taxes proposed on homes that are more than 2400 square feet.

New gasoline taxes

New taxes on natural resources consumption (heating gas, water, electricity)

New taxes on retirement accounts

New taxes to pay for socialized medicine

[NoHall]

Forgive me if you have addressed this before, but will you expand on what it is you fear?

If you don't want to, that's okay too, of course. It just surprises me and I would like to understand it.

See below.

Maybe a little time and research will help you get over your fear. I hope so. Fear is an enemy that does no good for anyone. Reading the other two pages of this thread may help you some. Also try going here and looking under "issues" (don't click on issues, just hold your pointer over the catagory to see the list) for more info:

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/

Best of luck to you with your decision.

Thanks, that's very sweet and condescending of you, but it's not from being under-read. (With all due respect, SoWal.com is not the end-all, be-all in research, despite Punzy's best efforts.)

I'm not talking about the fear that causes villagers to grab the torches and pitchforks. Perhaps "serious misgivings" is a better, albeit longer term for it.

I fear his lack of experience and his party's micromanagement which borders on socialism. As one of my co-workers said at lunch this week, the synopsis of the DNC seems to be "This is a great country! Let's change it!" :blink:

[jdarg]

See below.



Thanks, that's very sweet and condescending of you, but it's not from being under-read. (With all due respect, SoWal.com is not the end-all, be-all in research, despite Punzy's best efforts.)

I'm not talking about the fear that causes villagers to grab the torches and pitchforks. Perhaps "serious misgivings" is a better, albeit longer term for it.

I fear his lack of experience and his party's micromanagement which borders on socialism. As one of my co-workers said at lunch this week, the synopsis of the DNC seems to be "This is a great country! Let's change it!" :blink:

This is a great country with some serious issues- change is totally needed. We are not at the top of our game.

[goodwitch58]

thanks for answering Nohall.

[NoHall]

This is a great country with some serious issues- change is totally needed.
You're right--we do need some change. I guess it's only stating the obvious that we have several schools of thought on how that should happen...

In the end I'm grateful that we have a system that 1) allows us to choose which method we use and 2) allows us to change our mind every few years. That's why my fear is not really my enemy--we have a system that backs itself up. That is change I can believe in...

[analogman]

See below.



Thanks, that's very sweet and condescending of you, but it's not from being under-read. (With all due respect, SoWal.com is not the end-all, be-all in research, despite Punzy's best efforts.)

I'm not talking about the fear that causes villagers to grab the torches and pitchforks. Perhaps "serious misgivings" is a better, albeit longer term for it.

I fear his lack of experience and his party's micromanagement which borders on socialism. As one of my co-workers said at lunch this week, the synopsis of the DNC seems to be "This is a great country! Let's change it!" :blink:

I was merely trying to be helpful, not condescending. Sorry if it sounded that way.

America is a great country but I think it could use some change from the neo-con policies of the once inexperienced George Bush administration, don't you think? I just don't think Senator McCain is proposing enough of the change we need. I never said Sowal was a end-all, be-all for anything. I suggested that a look at what Senator Obama was actually proposing on his website might simply allay some of your "serious misgivings". I know it has helped me, a regestered Republican.


Both parties are quite adept at micromanaging all of their members with good and bad results coming from each end of the political spectrum. Each has proven it time and time again throughout recent history.

It was a much greater man than I that said "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself". That is what I was refering to regarding the dangers of fear. A little caution is good. I don't think fear is. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.


And I still wish you well with your decision...sincerely, not condescendingly. God bless you and God Bless America!

[analogman]

The information in the below post apparently comes from a widely circulated email and is almost entirely false.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/would_obama_tax_my_profits_if_i.html
Alert readers may already have noted that this chain e-mail does not provide links to any of Obama's actual proposals or cite any sources for the claims it makes. That is because they are made up.This widely distributed message is so full of misinformation that we find it impossible to believe that it is the result of simple ignorance or carelessness on the part of the writer. Almost nothing it says about Obama's tax proposals is true. We conclude that this deception is deliberate.

Originally Posted by Camp Creek Kid http://sowal.com/bb/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.sowal.com/bb/showthread.php?p=459744#post459744)
I don't know, I just like a party that allows ME to benefit from My hard work.

INTERESTING DATA ON TAXES
Proposed changes in taxes after the 2008 General election:

CAPITAL GAINS TAX

MCCAIN
0% on home sales up to $500,000 per home (couples). McCain does not propose any change in existing home sales income tax.

OBAMA
28% on profit from ALL home sales

How does this affect you? If you sell your home and make a profit, you will pay 28% of your gain on taxes. If you are heading toward retirement and would like to downsize your home or move into a retirement community, 28% of the money you make from your home will go to taxes. This proposal will adversely affect the elderly who are counting on the income from their homes as part of their retirement income.

DIVIDEND TAX

MCCAIN 15% (no change)

OBAMA 39.6%

How will this affect you? If you have any money invested in stock market, IRA, mutual funds, college funds, life insurance, retirement accounts, or anything that pays or reinvests dividends, you will now be paying nearly 40% of the money earned on taxes if Obama becomes president. The experts predict that 'Higher tax rates on dividends and capital gains would crash the stock market, yet do absolutely nothing to cut the deficit.'

INCOME TAX

MCCAIN (no changes)

Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $31,250

OBAMA (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)

Single making 30K - tax $8,400
Single making 50K - tax $14,000
Single making 75K - tax $23,250
Married making 60K - tax $16,800
Married making 75K - tax $21,000
Married making 125K - tax $38,750

Under Obama, your taxes could almost double!

INHERITANCE TAX

MCCAIN 0% (No change, Bush repealed this tax)

OBAMA Restore the inheritance tax

Many families have lost businesses, farms, ranches, and homes that have been in their families for generations because they could not afford the inheritance tax. Those willing their assets to loved ones will only lose them to these taxes.

NEW TAXES PROPOSED BY OBAMA

New government taxes proposed on homes that are more than 2400 square feet.

New gasoline taxes

New taxes on natural resources consumption (heating gas, water, electricity)

New taxes on retirement accounts

New taxes to pay for socialized medicine

Thanks for the factcheck link TooFarTampa. I figured the Sowal posted info was not true. When I read the factcheck page in it's entirety, I found virtually none of the post was actually true. So much falsified data spreads so quickly in this day and age by well intentioned people, doesn't it?

[Miss Kitty]

I was merely trying to be helpful, not condescending. Sorry if it sounded that way.

America is a great country but I think it could use some change from the neo-con policies of the once inexperienced George Bush administration, don't you think? I just don't think Senator McCain is proposing enough of the change we need. I never said Sowal was a end-all, be-all for anything. I suggested that a look at what Senator Obama was actually proposing on his website might simply allay some of your "serious misgivings". I know it has helped me, a regestered Republican.


Both parties are quite adept at micromanaging all of their members with good and bad results coming from each end of the political spectrum. Each has proven it time and time again throughout recent history.

It was a much greater man than I that said "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself". That is what I was refering to regarding the dangers of fear. A little caution is good. I don't think fear is. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.


And I still wish you well with your decision...sincerely, not condescendingly. God bless you and God Bless America!

Thank you for this response. For me, this is helpful discourse. All of the following is my opinion and I know what I need to do more of is check for facts, but right now I am trying to really understand what is in the depths of my soul in politics. I understand the "fear" because we have been living under it for so long it has become part of our subconscious. Everyone was affected by 9/11 in some way, but it brought us together. The continuing war has polarized this country, but at the end of the day, I can't believe that every American does not wish our troops would come home and Iraq would be able to stand on it's own. But, maybe I use my simple common sense too much. So, at the end of the day when I look at both candidates and their party platforms I am truly straddling the two.

What would be extremely helpful to me is if both sides of this great country and board would dig deep and admit what is in their soul and what it is that they agree with in their party/candidate and what they may struggle with. Maybe most of you are true blue Reps or Dems and that is great...it sure would make life easier for me if that was my case! I have personally felt a sting or two that may or may not have been directed at me, but I am okay with that, because it helps me understand where I come from and how others feel. I do understand that no one really wants to admit their candidate has flaws on this board for fear the "vultures" would pounce on that, so perhaps my idea is pie in the sky.

Thanks for listening. Carry on. I, like you, wonder when I will stfu. :wave:

[analogman]

Miss Kitty, let's us both never stfu. I love your comments and I enjoy playing on Sowal.:D

[full time]

Maybe this leading spokesperson for liberal democratic causes and special guest at democratic conventions needs a few little yellow smiley faces so that he doesn't come off as such an arrogant ass. Now where were we in our discussion about the world being full of fools?

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/08/30/moore-on-gustav-there-is-a-god-in-heaven/

[Chickpea]

Maybe this leading spokesperson for liberal democratic causes and special guest at democratic conventions needs a few little yellow smiley faces so that he doesn't come off as such an arrogant ass. Now where were we in our discussion about the world being full of fools?

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/08/30/moore-on-gustav-there-is-a-god-in-heaven/

That is tasteless humor and demonstrates some bad taste - obviously what he was trying to highlight was the Bush's administration abject failure of dealing with Katrina but he failed miserably in his attempt by making that inane statement.

[Smiling JOe]

I got a little bored and turned off from reading p2 posts, and I thought this thread had potential, starting with a good question. I think Goofer nailed it -- "sophisticated Jerry Springer." Come on people, let's at least try to stick to decent information and questions on the candidates, regardless of your personal thoughts. I'm going to skip p3 for now. Can we get security over here so that the guests don't start throwing chairs at Geraldo?!

[NoHall]

I was merely trying to be helpful, not condescending. Sorry if it sounded that way.

America is a great country but I think it could use some change from the neo-con policies of the once inexperienced George Bush administration, don't you think? I just don't think Senator McCain is proposing enough of the change we need. I never said Sowal was a end-all, be-all for anything. I suggested that a look at what Senator Obama was actually proposing on his website might simply allay some of your "serious misgivings". I know it has helped me, a regestered Republican.


Both parties are quite adept at micromanaging all of their members with good and bad results coming from each end of the political spectrum. Each has proven it time and time again throughout recent history.

It was a much greater man than I that said "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself". That is what I was refering to regarding the dangers of fear. A little caution is good. I don't think fear is. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.


And I still wish you well with your decision...sincerely, not condescendingly. God bless you and God Bless America!

What a gracious apology. Thanks. :wave:

I just don't happen to see things the way you do (which is fine--that's what makes the world go 'round. I am not going to engage in a point-by-point debate over this, so I hope that everyone will refer to earlier threads (http://www.sowal.com/bb/showthread.php?t=23335) and not waste time with it here, but I don't agree with the statements I highlighted above.

First, I think W has made some tough, unpopular decisions. (And I think it's interesting that he was re-elected after some of those decisions.) History will tell us how bad or good they were for the country. Not all good change is easy.

Second, I think that Obama has a wonderful way of inspiring folks, but I'm not convinced that it isn't just smoke and mirrors. Also, I don't like the Democrats' way of doing things. I believe that we are a country founded on less government, not more. His proposals are scary to me, despite all the sunshine. Socialists/communists had wonderful ideas that were for the good of the country as well...I know that's extreme, (I don't want to sound like Limbaugh,) but not completely unfounded.

[analogman]

What a gracious apology. Thanks. :wave:

I just don't happen to see things the way you do (which is fine--that's what makes the world go 'round. I am not going to engage in a point-by-point debate over this, so I hope that everyone will refer to earlier threads (http://www.sowal.com/bb/showthread.php?t=23335) and not waste time with it here, but I don't agree with the statements I highlighted above.

First, I think W has made some tough, unpopular decisions. (And I think it's interesting that he was re-elected after some of those decisions.) History will tell us how bad or good they were for the country. Not all good change is easy.

Second, I think that Obama has a wonderful way of inspiring folks, but I'm not convinced that it isn't just smoke and mirrors. Also, I don't like the Democrats' way of doing things. I believe that we are a country founded on less government, not more. His proposals are scary to me, despite all the sunshine. Socialists/communists had wonderful ideas that were for the good of the country as well...I know that's extreme, (I don't want to sound like Limbaugh,) but not completely unfounded.

I think we've said enough, as well. I guess we just have differing viewpoints and that's one of the things that make America great. Today all of my thoughts and energy will be going to my prayers for those in the path of Gustov. Thank you for adding your prayers to mine in this respect.

[NoHall]

I think we've said enough, as well. I guess we just have differing viewpoints and that's one of the things that make America great. Today all of my thoughts and energy will be going to my prayers for those in the path of Gustov. Thank you for adding your prayers to mine in this respect.

I totally agree with all of that. Grace & peace to you...

[Tootsie]

Second, I think that Obama has a wonderful way of inspiring folks, but I'm not convinced that it isn't just smoke and mirrors. Also, I don't like the Democrats' way of doing things. I believe that we are a country founded on less government, not more. His proposals are scary to me, despite all the sunshine. Socialists/communists had wonderful ideas that were for the good of the country as well...I know that's extreme, (I don't want to sound like Limbaugh,) but not completely unfounded.


rush limbaugh for sure. absolutely unfounded.

[NoHall]

rush limbaugh for sure. absolutely unfounded.


He's not the only one who has said it. We can play "Is not, is too" all day, but my point, Toots, was that despite the fact that he said it, too (I don't like him or anyone else who foams at the mouth and attacks everyone within spitting distance) Obama and his ilk are micromanagers who push for government who controls every aspect of life. Founded.

[sowalgayboi]

He's not the only one who has said it. We can play "Is not, is too" all day, but my point, Toots, was that despite the fact that he said it, too (I don't like him or anyone else who foams at the mouth and attacks everyone within spitting distance) Obama and his ilk are micromanagers who push for government who controls every aspect of life. Founded.

Thank god someone else finally pointed out how the republicans are blinding women. Lord knows that womans right's would ever fall under this category. :roll:

[NoHall]

Thank god someone else finally pointed out how the republicans are blinding women. Lord knows that womans right's would ever fall under this category. :roll:

I've exercised the right not to be pregnant ever since puberty, and the government has no say in it one way or another. I believe in personal responsibility, not evading consequences.

[Tootsie]

Geo: I agree


Palin will appeal to the the very conservative and evangelical base of the Republican party that felt alienated and feared not being properly represented by McCain should he win this election. mcCain picked Palin in part because she is a woman but also because she has a 2 year reputation for fighting corruption and being a reformer.

I personally do not think it was a smart choice although her life story certainly seems compelling and commendable (just having 5 kids and working full time is a big deal in my eyes!!) - I just disagree with her positions on quite a few issues and it seems to me that all of the Hillary supporters who are pro-choice could not support her (she is so pro-life that she even thinks that a woman who finds herself pregnant by rape or incest should bring the child to term!) - I am thankful as I believe thad HAD McCain picked someone a little less ultra conservative it would have peeled off quite a few independents. I think the people who are thrilled with this choice would have voted with McCain regardless....

As a democrat I certainly feared Romney much more who is much more qualified.

And FWIW - many people who were on the fence about Obama were relieved by his choice in Biden - I have yet to hear anyone who is disappointed by this choice.

The difference between Obama and Palin vis a vis experience -- he has deep and thoughtful positions on all the issues, and he has written books on his political views and post-partisanship. He is a brilliant legal mind. He worked as a community organizer for more than a decade before holding elected office. He represented the south side of Chicago for 12 years in the legislature, Sarah Palin was mayor of a town the size of Paxton. He's been a leader in the Senate from the day he arrived there four years ago, Sarah Palin has been the governor of a state with a population smaller than the average congressional district for 16 months. Obama was a professor of constitutional law when Sarah Palin was a sports reporter for the local news.

If you support Sarah Palin on the issues, great. But to compare her experience to Obama's and deem them at all similar is just a total crock.

Oh, and Obama won an election to earn his place -- so don't call him a token. He fought and earned the nomination, rather than being selected by a search committee.

CCK: I totally respect your positions and am happy you are thrilled with this choice - per an earlier post of mine, I have zero interest in tearing her or McCain apart. I will happily leave that to others.

BUT I will tell you that all the democrats I have spoken to are not remotely scared of her - she will appeal to those true conservatives and it is unlikely that she will gain alot of the independents....

Now, Romney would have left me a wee scared!!!

This is a great country with some serious issues- change is totally needed. We are not at the top of our game.

I just wanted to quote some of you on this thread who continue to inform in such a gracious way. thank you all.

[sowalgayboi]

I've exercised the right not to be pregnant ever since puberty, and the government has no say in it one way or another. I believe in personal responsibility, not evading consequences.

Unfortunately the current republican VP candidate wants to override your rights even if someone violates thru rape. :blink:

[NoHall]

Unfortunately the current republican VP candidate wants to override your rights even if someone violates thru rape. :blink:

I happen to agree with government getting out of those decisions, even though I don't believe in terminating a pregnancy that was the result of a rape. My mother was an unwanted pregnancy, given up for adoption. And I'm sure you are as selfishly grateful as I am that she wasn't aborted. :biggrin:

[Chickpea]

For all the working women out there - are you not upset by the fact that your candidate does not believe in equal pay for equal work????

And I for one cannot believe that abortion is still being debated in this country - most of the developing countries have long since settled this dispute. Abortion used as a means of birth control is despicable - to force a woman who was raped to have her child is quite disturbing to me.

I respect those who feel passionately about this subject (I guess) but frankly, to me there are issues so much more pressing...

[NoHall]

For all the working women out there - are you not upset by the fact that your candidate does not believe in equal pay for equal work????

And I for one cannot believe that abortion is still being debated in this country - most of the developing countries have long since settled this dispute. Abortion used as a means of birth control is despicable - to force a woman who was raped to have her child is quite disturbing to me.

I respect those who feel passionately about this subject (I guess) but frankly, to me there are issues so much more pressing...

I hope it's clear that I don't disagree with this. It should not be a government issue anymore than the government should decide if I need allergy shots. That's between me and my doctor.

Rape is a horrible thing, and the decision to keep or abort a resultant child is not the government's business.

[Chickpea]

I hope it's clear that I don't disagree with this. It should not be a government issue anymore than the government should decide if I need allergy shots. That's between me and my doctor.

Rape is a horrible thing, and the decision to keep or abort a resultant child is not the government's business.

Agreed 100% with you on the whole passage here!

[goodwitch58]

For all the working women out there - are you not upset by the fact that your candidate does not believe in equal pay for equal work????

And I for one cannot believe that abortion is still being debated in this country - most of the developing countries have long since settled this dispute. Abortion used as a means of birth control is despicable - to force a woman who was raped to have her child is quite disturbing to me.

I respect those who feel passionately about this subject (I guess) but frankly, to me there are issues so much more pressing...

I agree. I can not for the life of me understand why we are putting so much emphasis on a woman's right to decide what to do with her own body...and wanting to teach religion -- of any kind-- in a public school...especially when there are issues of national defense, the economy, and the environment...

It is insulting to me as a woman that McCain apparently thinks he can put a woman on the ticket and automatically get all women to vote for him; it is insulting that those who are well educated are considered elite; and I think it is disgusting that Governor Palin would use Hillary Clinton--a very well regarded Senator and a former first lady and a candidate who garnered 18 million votes...to try and push her own agenda. That seems degrading to Palin--if she is such a star, why not state her qualifications and vision?

There are so many other people Senator McCain could have chosen to make a good ticket for himself. He caved to the Dr. Dobsons of the world...and after Governor Jindal's performance with this storm, the Republicans may wish that McCain had taken more care with his decision.

[Smiling JOe]

Unfortunately the current republican VP candidate wants to override your rights even if someone violates thru rape. :blink:

Care to share your source on this? Most laws have exception clauses, and I'd guess that any abortion law would have exceptions for rape and life of the mother.

Without going into my personal thoughts of abortion, I'd like to point out that the gov't isn't as concerned with what a woman does with HER body, as it is concerned with what a woman does with someone else's body.

[Bob]

30ashopper, SJ, et al:

Let's discuss why the Dems chose Obama or debate his experience (or lack thereof) on another thread. I know you think they are related/find parallels with my Palin question but you are missing a key distinction (which is exactly my point)-

The dems chose Obama in spite of his race and without regard for his gender...

But IMHO, Mccain chose Palin because of her gender.

The true apples to apples comparison here would be

Would the dems have chosen Obama if he was not black?
Or would the dems have chosen Obama if he was not male?
Or would Obama have chosen Biden if he was not male?

Thank you for not dodging the question and for being honest...as close as this race was, the media chose the nominee, not the dems

[tofu]

Care to share your source on this? Most laws have exception clauses, and I'd guess that any abortion law would have exceptions for rape and life of the mother.

Without going into my personal thoughts of abortion, I'd like to point out that the gov't isn't as concerned with what a woman does with HER body, as it is concerned with what a woman does with someone else's body.

The issue is not what the abortion law is, but where Palin stands on it.

Here is an excellent source:

The candidates were pressed on their stances on abortion and were even asked what they would do if their own daughters were raped and became pregnant.

Palin said she would support abortion only if the mother's life was in danger. When it came to her daughter, she said, "I would choose life." Emphasis added.



From the Anchorage Daily News.
http://dwb.adn.com/news/politics/elections/2006/governor/story/8372383p-8266781c.html

[CADreaming]

On another thread I made a point and asked if anyone disagreed. Despite the fact that I was thanked, no one responded one way or the another. I am curious what ya'll think-

I believe if Palin was not a woman, McCain would not have picked her as his veep...

What do you think?
Agree or disagree?

Feel free to explain why if you like...

Thx for playing...

G

EDIT- I wanted to do a poll but couldn't find that feature...

I agree with you. I think she was selected primarily because of her gender. There are many more qualified choices. The reported strategy is to woo women and Hillary supporters (which I do not believe will work since Palin's policies are the opposite of Hillary's) and shore up the religious-right base with, as Rush put it: "Guns, Babies and Jesus."

[scooterbug44]

Palin was chosen because 1) She is female 2) She is uber-conservative/religious.

The first reason REALLY pisses me off, because every time they chose a woman just 'cuz she's a woman it reinforces the idea that someone who isn't as qualified gets chosen because they "checked the box."

I am hoping that they lose or she bows out as I think she could do quite well at becoming the Alaskan Ann Richards.

How they think they'll woo disgruntled Hilary supporters w/ a staunchly pro-life, former beauty queen is beyond me!