A Call to Lower the Drinking Age

[Mermaid]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26271328/

Nearly a 100 college and university presidents have voiced their opinion that the drinking age be lowered from 21 to 18 years. What say you?

When I was a college student in New Hampshire a reporter polled me about whether the state should raise its drinking age up to 21 years (it was 18 at the time). So more than 30 years have elapsed and the question is still floating around. Is it because something obviously does not work?

Pros and cons to both sides, the most glaring of which are (pro) it reduces traffic fatalities and (con) there is too much dangerous and potentially fatal underage binge drinking going on.

It's a difficult and prickley issue to deal with whatever is decided.

[Smiling JOe]

make it 18! The only reason it is 21 in all 57 states, oh wait, that was Obama's United States, I mean in all 50 States, is because if the drinking age isn't 21 in a state, the Federal Gov't cuts 10% from that state's highway funds. I can see college President's being for lowering it to 18, in order to decrease liability and to not have to police it.

If you can vote for the candidates to run this gov't and go to war to die for this country, being placed in charge of $20 million jets, loaded with bombs, I think you should be able to drink alcohol legally. What is balanced about the status quo?

[MissCritter]

I heard this story on NPR this morning. The reasoning behind the push by some college administrators to lower the drinking is that they cannot legally address responsible drinking to students under the age of 21. Since we all know that few students wait until legal age to drink, there is some merit to the idea. That said, I grew up in New Orleans, where drinking - both legal and underage - was ubiquitous and not discouraged. I went to college at the U of Alabama in the middle of the baptist belt, where drinking - both legal and underage - was highly discouraged, yet also ubiquitious.

A better question to address is: why do young adults feel the need to get plastered as often as possible? I wish I knew the answer to that one. Then we might start to see some progress.

I am, however, in favor of anything that reduces the number of drunk drivers on the roads. As tragic as it is for young people to suffer the consequences of their own poor choices, it's far more tragic when innocent lives are forever shattered or lost due to someone else's poor decisions.

[scooterbug44]

IMO the issue is not at what age kids can legally start drinking, it is the attitudes and behavior of those drinking. Responsible consumption is so far from reality/the norm it's ridiculous. Binge drinking is a HUGE issue for schools and it keeps getting worse.

People constantly use Europe's 18 year old drinking age as an example, but because the attitudes and penalties are so different it isn't an accurate comparison.

My college made it "legal" for you to drink underage in the dorms so that they could monitor/control it better. They knew that we'd do it anyway so it was better that we do it where there was a support staff and some rules to curb the behavior. That was in a very controlled environment and didn't solve the problem, but it did help prevent some deaths and injuries.

[ckhagen]

I agree it needs to be dropped to 18.
Once you're an adult... that's it... no more age contingencies on laws. Either they drop it to 18 or up the age at which you become an "adult" to 21... at which point 18 y/o's going to war would have to be classified as children.

[scooterbug44]

Based on what I've seen over the years, being "responsible" or "adult" has very little to do with drinking! :roll:

[ronfrazer]

Keeping in mind all the excellent points already made, and remembering my own drunken college days, I'd say lower the drinking age to 18 but educate young people about the dangers to their health and safety. I'm concerned about their brains that are still developing and they need all the brain cells they can get.

Make it cool to drink responsibly--and not cool to puke on your shoes, or someone else's shoes.

[ckhagen]

Based on what I've seen over the years, being "responsible" or "adult" has very little to do with drinking! :roll:

Well, unless we can come up with some kind of way to test responsibility age is unfortunately the only means they have to judge by or even attempt to limit by.

I totally agree adult does not equal responsible. I know 50 y/o men that are less responsible than certain 18 y/o's.

[scooterbug44]

That was in response to the "if you can do this at 18, you should be able to do this" argument.

Saying they want to change it because they can't advocate moderation and common sense to underage drinkers is a total cop-out. All you do is start with "don't drink until you're 21 because it's illegal etc." and you're covered.

[30ashopper]

Imagine all the money we'd save if we lowered or eliminated the drinking age and de-criminalized marijuana and other soft drugs. Utopia isn't a realistic goal when your dealing with a race as imperfect as our own.

[hnooe]

Imagine all the money we'd save if we lowered or eliminated the drinking age and de-criminalized marijuana and other soft drugs. Utopia isn't a realistic goal when your dealing with a race as imperfect as our own.


Yes! Well said!

[Smiling JOe]

I think one reason why 18-21 year old college kids drink so heavily at home is that they know that they won't be served in the bars when they go out, so they get plastered at home (dorm/apartment), quickly. I've always said that if young kids were allowed to drink a glass of wine or a couple of beers at home, with their parents, they wouldn't be as likely to experiment (get effed up) with alcohol so much at the same time they get out of Mom and Dad's house. Rock and Roll! People want what they are told they cannot have, b/c that makes them socially cool, rebellious to their parents and the System.

[scooterbug44]

It was perfectly okay for me, as an underage student to have a drinking party in my dorm room (w/ illegally obtained alcohol) and serve it to other underage guests.

We also had several underage bars (one w/ such lax standards I had an ID that said I was a black man).

Didn't stop people from drinking themselves sick/to the hospital/into bad situations.

[Mango]

I'm for lower the drinking age. If one can protect their country at 18, they should be able to drink as well. However, I'm for lowering the blood alcohol level for those between the ages of 18-25. Research has shown that lowering the blood level reduces fatalities on the road. Also, there's a reason why rental car companies do not rent to anyone 25 or younger. Studies have shown that the part of the brain that is responsible for taking responsibility is not fully developed until 25. Not that I agree with that, there are many responsible people below the age of 25, but, I think that lowering the blood level will reduce fatalities.

I also think that these breath alcohol ignition interlock devices (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breath_alcohol_ignition_interlock_device) should be federal law.

Then there's the way this country culturally is different from other parts of the world, especially Europe. I do not know the statistics of alcohol related deaths vs. the U.S, but Europeans are known to give their children wine at dinner every now and then. Better education needs to come from the family, especially if it can not legally be professed in schools. That should change as well. I feel that road offenders who have children, should be forced to have their children attend some sort of educational intervention since exposure to alcoholism is a problem. It also has been shown that alcoholism can be genetically inherited.

[scooterbug44]

It isn't that Europeans give their kids wine at dinner occasionally, or that the drinking age there is 18, it's that it is COMPLETELY socially unacceptable to be visibly drunk in Europe.

[Smiling JOe]

The real problem I see is saying that someone who is 17 years, 364 days old, isn't responsible, but the next day, suddenly they are enlightened. Remove the taboo, and the social pressures, and part of the problem goes away.

Why do so many people drink to get wasted? I used to do when I was very young, as did most people I knew. I think that could be attributed to the lack of self esteem we 16 year olds had. Alcohol suddenly makes you forget about the obstacles in your path (dangerous thing). Spirituality is often missing, as is any resemblance of adult hood, even though my grandparents married at age 13 and 15, built their own house, and started their own farm. As pointed out, age doesn't make one an adult -- values, morals, ethics, respect for others and respect for yourself does make one an adult. If we made a law that vaguely stated that only adults could drink liquor or smoke dope, in my book, less than 1% of the US population should be intoxicated, legally. Getting drunk is a way in which people "escape" (hide) from reality. Avoidance, however, doesn't make reality go away. One's problems grow and may escalate, pushing one's problems onto others. I've chosen to lead a fairly sober adult life, though you may see me with a beer in the hand. I'd rather feel the ups and downs of reality.

The amount of emphasis we place on age is really is amazing.

[Mango]

It isn't that Europeans give their kids wine at dinner occasionally, or that the drinking age there is 18, it's that it is COMPLETELY socially unacceptable to be visibly drunk in Europe.

Does that include not swaying around the road in your car?

[30ashopper]

The real problem I see is saying that someone who is 17 years, 364 days old, isn't responsible, but the next day, suddenly they are enlightened. Remove the taboo, and the social pressures, and part of the problem goes away.

Why do so many people drink to get wasted? I used to do when I was very young, as did most people I knew. I think that could be attributed to the lack of self esteem we 16 year olds had. Alcohol suddenly makes you forget about the obstacles in your path (dangerous thing). Spirituality is often missing, as is any resemblance of adult hood, even though my grandparents married at age 13 and 15, built their own house, and started their own farm. As pointed out, age doesn't make one an adult -- values, morals, ethics, respect for others and respect for yourself does make one an adult. If we made a law that vaguely stated that only adults could drink liquor or smoke dope, in my book, less than 1% of the US population should be intoxicated, legally. Getting drunk is a way in which people "escape" (hide) from reality. Avoidance, however, doesn't make reality go away. One's problems grow and may escalate, pushing one's problems onto others. I've chosen to lead a fairly sober adult life, though you may see me with a beer in the hand. I'd rather feel the ups and downs of reality.

The amount of emphasis we place on age is really is amazing.


That hits on the main problem with the way our laws work. In an effort to help those who have a pre-disposition toward substance abuse, we blanket the entire population with rules and laws restricting their rights. The flip side would be to only target those who have problems, and leave everyone else alone. I doubt there are statistics available that show which approach would cost less, but I'd love to see us experiment with the latter approach to see.

[scooterbug44]

Does that include not swaying around the road in your car?

I believe that in some European countries you lose your license forever for a DUI and the legal limits are lower than the US.

[Mermaid]

As I mentioned, the legal drinking age was 18 years when I was a college student. I learned to pour a good pint at Thursday Pub Night at the student union. ;-) I do not think 21 years old is reasonable, but I do have reservations about 18 and the reason is this. Back in my day you started 1st grade as young as five years old. As long as you turned six by the end of December, you were eligible. This meant you graduated high school at age 17 and turned 18 while you were in college.

These days, parents send their kids--particularly boys--to first grade at 7 and even 7 1/2 years old in some cases. Which means there are plenty of high school students out there who are 18. I do not think it bodes well to allow high school students to legally buy alcohol because of their proximity to the younger students. Too close, too close. Lower the drinking age to 19 when most kids are more likely to be off to college or out of the house working and supporting themselves.

Butler University president Bobby Fong (who supports lowering the age) commented that he learned to drink socially in the homes of college professors and other adults, and that it was appropriate drinking which fostered responsible attitudes towards alcohol. College students these days drink without any adults present and it is a furtive, destructive activity for too many of them. My 19 year old daughter told me that one of her friends was caught drinking on campus and subsequently had to take classes about alcohol use. One of the things that came out was that police who arrest underage drinkers are seeing higher and higher blood alcohol levels. That's frightening. Why is it? Because it's not legal for them to be drinking and since they can't keep or carry the alcohol, kids finish the bottle or case right on the spot.

[jdarg]

As I mentioned, the legal drinking age was 18 years when I was a college student. I learned to pour a good pint at Thursday Pub Night at the student union. ;-) I do not think 21 years old is reasonable, but I do have reservations about 18 and the reason is this. Back in my day you started 1st grade as young as five years old. As long as you turned six by the end of December, you were eligible. This meant you graduated high school at age 17 and turned 18 while you were in college.

These days, parents send their kids--particularly boys--to first grade at 7 and even 7 1/2 years old in some cases. Which means there are plenty of high school students out there who are 18. I do not think it bodes well to allow high school students to legally buy alcohol because of their proximity to the younger students. Too close, too close. Lower the drinking age to 19 when most kids are more likely to be off to college or out of the house working and supporting themselves.

Butler University president Bobby Fong (who supports lowering the age) commented that he learned to drink socially in the homes of college professors and other adults, and that it was appropriate drinking which fostered responsible attitudes towards alcohol. College students these days drink without any adults present and it is a furtive, destructive activity for too many of them. My 19 year old daughter told me that one of her friends was caught drinking on campus and subsequently had to take classes about alcohol use. One of the things that came out was that police who arrest underage drinkers are seeing higher and higher blood alcohol levels. That's frightening. Why is it? Because it's not legal for them to be drinking and since they can't keep or carry the alcohol, kids finish the bottle or case right on the spot.

Great point about 18 year olds being in high school- our son will be an "old" senior. I don't think booze and high school is a great mix, so 19 would be the way to go if there was going to be any change.

University of South Carolina had a campus bar in the student union. Lots of beer, great bands- and we could walk. Now kids have to get in cars to go to many places- which seems more dangerous. Not only is the alcohol illegal for them to drink, but it is further away.

[scooterbug44]

We had cheap cabs and it really discouraged the drinking/driving issue - no excuse for driving when $2 would get you home safely.

[beachmouse]

One thing mister mouse pointed out was that at 18, you'd have high school students legally able to buy alcohol, and that odds are good that a lot of them would cheerfully buy for 14 and 15 year old friends.

For a long time, the drinking age in Ontario was 19 (not sure about other parts of Canada) and that seems like that age here would liberalize things for the college crowd without as big of a rule of unintended consequences issue among the high schoolers.

[6thGen]

Imagine all the money we'd save if we lowered or eliminated the drinking age and de-criminalized marijuana and other soft drugs. Utopia isn't a realistic goal when your dealing with a race as imperfect as our own.

I wouldn't stop at soft drugs, but I would up the state penalties on DUIs, etc. Just another example of the feds overstepping their bounds.

[cheesehead]

How many 18-20 yr olds do you know that are responsible enough to handle drinking and driving? Look at the accidents in this area alone, that are not caused by alcohol? What kind of driver's ed is offered here?

Yes, I drank before being of legal age, and I was fortunate nothing happened. Even, when I was legal, I still made poor decisions when riding a motorcycle and drinking, and not wearing head gear. I had a guardian angel on the back.

There'a alot of things that should be taught in schools, because kids aren't getting it at home. But, unless the system changes throughout the country, the stats will speak for themselves.

I'm sure I'll get a lot of flak, but, that's my opinion. This debate will go on long after I'm gone. Just like legalizing pot, but, it's a no win situation. Kids will drink under age, even if it were 18. So, make the parents responsible.:cool:

[Miss Kitty]

The drinking age turned back to 18 when I was in college, when I was either 18 or 19 (bear with me, I am old and killed off many brain cells) Making it legal, took some of the fun out of it...I suppose amongst the normal reasons underage kids drink, it was the getting something we shouldn't be getting that was part of the high. That said, I think 19 is a better age to lower the limit to, as it has been stated... there are many 18 year olds still in high school. The argument then becomes...will the kids start drinking even earlier than they do now? :idontno:

I agree that the colleges want to be rid of the liability. Most colleges do a very poor job of taking responsibility and it is a bit late for many students to be getting the education about binge drinking at Freshman Orientation. My goodness...the college culture with hooking up and date rape is horrifying! As usual, education begins at home and many times that education coupled with a wing and a prayer is what your precious child has to protect themselves. Sadly, many times it is not enough and you hope there is some communication either from your child or a friend that there might be a problem. I bet the school would be the last to contact parents of a problem because of privacy laws...hail, they won't even send home grades unless your child signs a form!

I always think of our young servicemen being able to die for our country and not being able to buy a beer. Confuses my brain everytime.

Great thread!

[MissCritter]

I always think of our young servicemen being able to die for our country and not being able to buy a beer. Confuses my brain everytime.


That makes two of us, Miss K. :blink:

[futurebeachbum]

I've often felt that we have the whole system backwards.

We let 16 yr olds operate expensive and dangerous motor vehicles on the road. We know that many people under 21 (or even 18) drink illegally, get seriously impaired and operate vehicles.

I would guess that the number of under 18 drivers (and their passengers) killed in accidents each year far exceeds the number of of underagre drinkers who kill themselves directly with alcohol.

Why don't we lower the drinking age and raise the driving age to 20 or 21? Then young drinkers could get the wild drinking, binging, etc.. mostly out of their systems before they are old enough to drive and be a danger to anyone but themselves.

I expect we'd save a lot of gasoline as a side effect of this too.

[Smiling JOe]

I was thinking the same thing, yesterday, futurebeachbum! It is a backwards system indeed.

Mermaid, I understand the concern with high-schoolers (18 year olds) buying for younger kids. It is true, and will happen, so that is a very valid point.

Having a drinking age of 21 is also the reason why so many of today's high-schoolers are smoking pot -- buying pot doesn't require an ID or a minimum age. The more hoops you make people jump through, the more they look for alternatives. I started drinking to get drunk when I was 14 (shocker), and I smoked my first cigarette in the second grade (maybe 8 years old). Today, I don't smoke anything, and I don't drink to get drunk, but I don't mind drinking 2-3 beers on occasion. To be blind to what kids are doing, is not helpful to anyone. Educate, educate, educate! When I was in the 9th grade, seven years after that first cigarette, we had a science teacher (heavy smoker) who shared photos of human lungs, one who didn't smoke with fleshy-pink lungs, and the other who smoked, with lungs which looked like a charcoal briquette. That may be the single-most deterrent for me. We adults need to be educating our youth, with truthful information about the benefits and dangers of intoxication, and the varying degrees.

[JUL]

You can get charged with a dui whether you are 18 or 21. I don't think drinking is the issue as much as driving and being 18 or 21 doesnt change this

[JUL]

Education is key so are role models. I like the pictures of the before and after crytal meth ads....the deterioration of the teeth and the loss of looks should be enough to stop most people who are thinking of experimenting.
I was thinking the same thing, yesterday, futurebeachbum! It is a backwards system indeed.

Mermaid, I understand the concern with high-schoolers (18 year olds) buying for younger kids. It is true, and will happen, so that is a very valid point.

Having a drinking age of 21 is also the reason why so many of today's high-schoolers are smoking pot -- buying pot doesn't require an ID or a minimum age. The more hoops you make people jump through, the more they look for alternatives. I started drinking to get drunk when I was 14 (shocker), and I smoked my first cigarette in the second grade (maybe 8 years old). Today, I don't smoke anything, and I don't drink to get drunk, but I don't mind drinking 2-3 beers on occasion. To be blind to what kids are doing, is not helpful to anyone. Educate, educate, educate! When I was in the 9th grade, seven years after that first cigarette, we had a science teacher (heavy smoker) who shared photos of human lungs, one who didn't smoke with fleshy-pink lungs, and the other who smoked, with lungs which looked like a charcoal briquette. That may be the single-most deterrent for me. We adults need to be educating our youth, with truthful information about the benefits and dangers of intoxication, and the varying degrees.