government mixing with religion in Walton County

[Smiling JOe]

I'm reading through the agenda for tomorrow's County Commissioners Mtg and I see:

c. Consider request from Bobby Beasley, Supervisor of Elections, to move Voting Precinct 18 (Santa Rosa Beach Community Center) to Good News United Methodist Church


It seems that we are able to keep separate gov't and religion to the Nth degree, by not displaying something as simple as a Christmas tree on the lawn at the Court House, unless it is accompanied by at least one other representation of religion, like a Jewish Star, but somehow, the gov't still requires some voters to show up at churches all over the USA to cast their governmental ballot for elections. Personally, going to a church to cast my ballot would be no different than casting it at the Tom Thumb (gas station), but it does seem strange how we, as a Country, are so strong opinionated on drawing lines in some places, but not others.

[aleonard]

I can honestly say that out of all the things that bother me about government, this is not one of them. If I'm not there for church, I don't think about it. :idontno:

[ckhagen]

It doesn't bother me either... they're willing to let the county use the space to give everyone the opportunity to vote in places closer to home with big enough facilities to handle the load (parking lots, areas with enough room for voting machines, etc...). You can vote absentee or early at the annex if for some reason you're vehemently opposed to standing in a church gathering facility for 15 minutes. Besides, I've never voted in a church sanctuary... normally it's a fellowship hall, gym, or something of that sort. Unless you're keen on having the taxpayers build multiple "community center" type facilities to handle these once or twice a year events, then there's not a whole lot that can be done about it.

[Smiling JOe]

I can honestly say that out of all the things that bother me about government, this is not one of them. If I'm not there for church, I don't think about it. :idontno:

What if the voting polls were located in a mosque (muslim church)? :idontno:

Again, going into a Christian Church wouldn't bother many Americans, but voting should have much more separation of church and state than some seasonal lawn decorations, don't you think? For the record, I am for mixed use of gov't building space.

[ckhagen]

I have no problem with going into a Mosque or Temple or UU church to vote... we're not talking about going into their sanctuaries. Unless I'm out of the loop and there are people standing at voting machines on an altar, I see no problem with using benign areas of a church building.

[Smiling JOe]

ckhagen, I think it is safe to say that most people wouldn't publicly object to a Christmas Tree on the lawn at a court house, and likewise for a place of voting. But, since the law is interpreted that the courthouse lawn cannot be decorated solely with a manger scene or a Christmas Tree, wouldn't you think there would be even more hell-raising about some voting places also being properties owned by the Churches. After all, it seems that many Democrats think that the lines are drawn around the "religious right."

[ckhagen]

Well, I'm looking at it from a practicality standpoint. If you are really opposed to voting on property owned by a church, you've got two weeks worth of time to go to the annex or you can vote absentee. I don't think anyone will be able to come up with a building in each and every precinct, with enough indoor space and parking space to handle the registered voters in those precincts. No one is being denied a right to vote. I don't recall a story of anyone ever being proselytized or preached at while waiting in line for a ballot, and in the years that I've voted in churches, I've never even seen a religious fixture in the room where the voting took place (perhaps there's a rule against that?).

[beachmouse]

The reasoning I've heard about shifting voting to church halls (not the sanctuary proper) is that they aren't disrutping a school day like they would be if they kept the precinct at a public school, and that church halls are conveniently located within a community and provide easy access, complete with meeting ADA standards.

They don't put a polling site into the sanctuary proper, at least in Okaloosa. They've been wanting to shift my precinct out of Bluewater Elementary for years, but only did so this spring because Resurrection finally got their church proper built, and the building they had been holding services in was now 'only' a church hall and no longer used for religous services. So it was now a go for using it as a polling site.

As for Christmas displays, there was a city down by Tampa that threw open the city hall holiday display to any faith that wanted to make a presentation there, and they ended up with additional contributions from the Zoarostrians and a group urging the celebration of Festivus.

[ckhagen]

DE 90-13 (a pdf) on this page addresses the situation that may be of interest.
http://election.dos.state.fl.us/opinions/yearIndex/de1990index.shtml

[Smiling JOe]

The Church itself is a religious symbol of Christianity. It matters not whether one is in a sanctuary of the church or a gathering hall. You don't see the Church opening its gathering halls to a group of Satanic worshipers, do you? They are Christians, or hopeful converts meeting in those gathering halls, typically.

Yes, in Walton County, you can vote absentee to avoid having to go to church to vote. However, that is not true for all places. For example, I have lived in towns where you could vote absentee only after swearing that you would be out of town during the election, or if you were handicapped.

The last thing I would want to see is a line out the door at my place of voting, due to it being the only place to vote, in order to keep voters out of the church. It is just a curious and notable difference in where Americans draw lines in separation of church and state, and it seems to be that way only for our convenience. Convenience is wanted by many, but I wonder when convenience overcomes the Constitution and Laws, if we will really have a decent gov't.

I'm an early voter and never have a wait, which is far different from my last three places of living, where voting took 4 hours of standing in line if I was lucky.

[ShallowsNole]

SJ, have you seen the South Walton Community Center lately?

Can you think of a better place to put the precinct, considering parking, bathroom facilities, etc?

If we had a suitable facility, not located in a school or church, I'm sure that is where it would be. But for the life of me, I can't think of one (but you can always vote early at the Annex :wave:)

[jodiFL]

my sentiments on this are stated pretty good on a bumper sticker recently seen around here.....
"the last time government and religion were mixed.... people got burned at the stake."

[steeleing1]

I don't mind voting in a church.

But I do find it peculiar when the Defuniak Springs city council prays to Jesus before the city council meeting.

[sowalgayboi]

Just for the record I know a very nice Jewish lady that attends Good News on a regular basis.

On that note, why not have polling places in bars? I bet the voter turn out would be a lot higher. I guarantee you can find a bar in ever precinct.

[aleonard]

What if the voting polls were located in a mosque (muslim church)? :idontno:

Again, going into a Christian Church wouldn't bother many Americans, but voting should have much more separation of church and state than some seasonal lawn decorations, don't you think? For the record, I am for mixed use of gov't building space.


Thanks for that question. It's a good point but if I lived in a Muslim dominated community and that was my voting place then I would probably be accustomed to it from my surroundings. But again, you make a very good point.

I'm all for multi-use for gov. facility's. They are picked I think to represent a place close to those registered voters, making voting easier and for lack of other spaces. :idontno:

[aleonard]

I don't mind voting in a church.

But I do find it peculiar when the Defuniak Springs city council prays to Jesus before the city council meeting.

That's baby Jesus to you..........

[cp]

Just for the record I know a very nice Jewish lady that attends Good News on a regular basis.

On that note, why not have polling places in bars? I bet the voter turn out would be a lot higher. I guarantee you can find a bar in ever precinct.
liquer stores can't open here on election day. Not sure what the bars do. I vote in a fire station.

[sowalgayboi]

liquer stores can't open here on election day. Not sure what the bars do. I vote in a fire station.

Both stay open here. I can't imagine trying to vote in a South Walton fire station. They stay far too busy and I don't think I'd want to dodge a truck on it's way out. :eek:

[jdarg]

Good News is not the first church polling place here- we voted at Christian International last November.

[beachmouse]

My precinct when we lived on Okaloosa Island was at the Elks Lodge. Any thoughts on where a free-standing (not on church property) Knights of Columbus hall would fall on the church-state ookieness scale?

I don't feel like we should describe America as a Christian nation, and I don't like seeing prayer at city council meetings and such. But as long as no endorsement of faith is made, discrimination is not allowed, and the intent of an action is entirely secular, I've got no problem with a government entering into a contractual agreement with a religously-connected institution.

Sacred Heart is, at the core, not a secluar institution. Have you noticed how many crosses are on the walls there? But no reason for them to not be allowed to contract to provide Medicare/Medicaid services.

[scooterbug44]

Good News is not the first church polling place here- we voted at Christian International last November.

And I believe had a lengthy thread devoted to the topic of voting in churches then too! :wave:

I personally have a BIG problem with voting in a church, especially when there is already so much involvement of religious leaders and churches in politics. I know the reality of ADA rules and not wanting strangers on school property, but that doesn't mean I have to like it (which is why I voted early at the annex instead of at a church).

[Smiling JOe]

SJ, have you seen the South Walton Community Center lately?

Can you think of a better place to put the precinct, considering parking, bathroom facilities, etc?

If we had a suitable facility, not located in a school or church, I'm sure that is where it would be. But for the life of me, I can't think of one (but you can always vote early at the Annex :wave:)

Community Center in South Walton? :floor: I am glad we are practical, and that we have many places to vote, making it easy for all. More people are likely to vote if it is easy to do. We are fortunate that we, in Walton County, have several choices of voting methods, ie- numerous voting stations, early voting, absentee voting. I would not want to make voting costs more by building neutral voting buildings. My only point in bringing up the voting in a Church, is that I am surprised it is has not drawn the attention of the people who object to a Christmas Tree on the lawn of a County office. :wave:

[Smiling JOe]

Just for the record I know a very nice Jewish lady that attends Good News on a regular basis.

On that note, why not have polling places in bars? I bet the voter turn out would be a lot higher. I guarantee you can find a bar in ever precinct.

Steeleing1, I believe that the Walton County Board of Commissioners and the Planning Commission, also begin with a prayer before the Pledge of Allegiance. Congress, State and Federal levels, also begin with a prayer. No big deal, because "God" by definition is the Supreme Being, so religion is like school buses of sorts, which many people ride to connect with the same "Supreme Being" (God). Even though religions vary, from their thoughts of "God," by definition, there can be only one God.

gayboi, I love the idea, but I believe that by law, the bars would have to stop serving alcohol prior to and during the voting, and I cannot think of any bar patron who would want that to happen.

[scooterbug44]

I believe that if it did draw their attention, they would be told "okay, find another local building that meets occupancy and ADA and isn't a school and call us back."

[Smiling JOe]

I believe that if it did draw their attention, they would be told "okay, find another local building that meets occupancy and ADA and isn't a school and call us back."
I shudder with the thought of voting under a big voting tent during extreme weather.