Seating half the delegates of FL and MI

[goofer44]

The early line from the DNC according to a memo being floated around, is that on Saturday May 31, the DNC will seat half the delegates from FL and MI. This is a mortal blow to the Clinton campaign (as if they needed one). Of course nothing is binding yet but this trial balloon will be acceptable to the Obama camp and reflects the current thinking of the DNC. Hillary's posture will be that this is unacceptable, but it is hard to see what she can do about it especially if there is a groundswell of super delegates swarming to Obama's corner.

[Mango]

I read her letter to the superdelegates and frankly, I am incensed. As a woman, I am tired of her playing the gender card. It's degrading. :roll:

"I am in this race for all the women in their nineties who’ve told me they were born before women could vote, and they want to live to see a woman in the White House. For all the women who are energized for the first time, and voting for the first time. For the little girls – and little boys – whose parents lift them onto their shoulders at our rallies, and whisper in their ears, "See, you can be anything you want to be." As the first woman ever to be in this position, I believe I have a responsibility to them. Finally, I am in this race because I believe staying in this race will help unite the Democratic Party."

:puke:

[Smiling JOe]

I really don't understand why the DNC would seat any of them. I think they float by the seat of their pants. If you are going to make rules, enforce them, or expect to be walked on. It isn't different than anything else in life. I guess this is their way of pretending to care about the people in MI and FL so that the Dems in those states aren't pissed during the general election, and maybe it is done in part, to shut Hillary up.

[scooterbug44]

The Democratic party told Florida and Michigan that there would be consequences if they moved their primary dates. Both Obama and Clinton pledged not to campaign in these states (at least Obama stuck to it).

IMO they should not seat ANY delegates and Hillary needs to go buh-bye!

[Gypsea]

I really don't understand why the DNC would seat any of them. I think they float by the seat of their pants. If you are going to make rules, enforce them, or expect to be walked on. It isn't different than anything else in life. I guess this is their way of pretending to care about the people in MI and FL so that the Dems in those states aren't pissed during the general election, and maybe it is done in part, to shut Hillary up.

Bingo!

[rapunzel]

I read her letter to the superdelegates and frankly, I am incensed. As a woman, I am tired of her playing the gender card. It's degrading. :roll:

"I am in this race for all the women in their nineties who’ve told me they were born before women could vote, and they want to live to see a woman in the White House. For all the women who are energized for the first time, and voting for the first time. For the little girls – and little boys – whose parents lift them onto their shoulders at our rallies, and whisper in their ears, "See, you can be anything you want to be." As the first woman ever to be in this position, I believe I have a responsibility to them. Finally, I am in this race because I believe staying in this race will help unite the Democratic Party."

:puke:

I wonder if the great feminist Eva Peron wrote that for her.

If she weren't a woman, everyone would be heckling her and colling her a sore loser. Her historic candidacy is no more historic than the one she is trying to tear down. I wonder what she thinks the little black children on their dads shoulders will think about their chances of being whatever they want to be if she succeeds.

I am so sick of someone who didn't have the vision to foresee the consequences of a situation being in reactive mode once it's clear that things have not worked out in his or her best interest. A leader would have foreseen the possible consequences and actively opposed the action from the beginning. I want a president with vision and proactive policies.

Like Mango, as a woman I am disgusted by this performance. If I'd pulled this sort of crap in the corporate world when a man got a job I wanted, I'd have never been taken seriously again. It's pathetic and sexist that her arguments are given credibility by the media. No one even mentions that for her to get to a number that beats Obama they still have to seat the full delegations of Michigan and Florida, but in Michigan where she was the only person on the ballot she would still have to be awarded 50% of the "other" vote. Obviously, if people voted "other" they weren't voting for her. Then, you also have to throw out the vote totals in all the states that held caucuses.

So, her argument is that the voters of Florida and Michigan can't be disenfranchised. But, she's totally cool with the voters in Iowa, Nevada, Maine, Colorado, Idaho, Kansas, Minnesota, and North Dakota not having a voice. :idontno:

As for the 1/2 vote for the delegates, it's the right thing to do. Personally, I'd rather see them redo the district level voting to name delegates, and allocate delegates based on the votes at the caucus. But, the DNC rules do say that losing 50% of the vote is the first choice of punishment for violating the DNC rules.

[30A Skunkape]

What do you expect out of a New York lawyer?

[JOE who...?]

How would the DNC fairly pull this off? Split the delegates evenly?
I would think any thing other than that would require a re-vote...

[singinchicken]

It won't ever happen so why debate it?

[Bob]

Did not Obama pull his name off the Michigan ballot, and tried to pull his name off the Florida ballot, but was unsuccessful? What type of vision is that?

[singinchicken]

His name was not on Michigan at all. Neither campaigned here. If their names were on both ballots and both capaigned to a level that they chose, then seating some portion would not be an issue.

This is tantamount to the Clinton camp asking for a do-over because they don't like what's happening. Both states knew the consequences of their actions and should have to live with it. My guess is that at the time that the penalties were communicated if the states had early primaries Clinton thought she would be a run away winner and didn't put any stock in the outcome. There was no mention by her of disenfranchising voters back then...

[Chickpea]

Clinton is losing because she ran a poor campaign, had no post super-tuesday plan and was convinced she woul coast, uncontested to the nomination. I understand that many women had pinned their hopes on her but it also offends me when the excuse of anti-feminism is used as a crutch to explain away a losing strategy.

And the absolute gall of Bill Clinton to whine that his wife is being disrespected when he showed her the most disrespect of all by deceiving her so publicly!

[Bob]

His name was not on Michigan at all. Neither campaigned here. If their names were on both ballots and both capaigned to a level that they chose, then seating some portion would not be an issue.

This is tantamount to the Clinton camp asking for a do-over because they don't like what's happening. Both states knew the consequences of their actions and should have to live with it. My guess is that at the time that the penalties were communicated if the states had early primaries Clinton thought she would be a run away winner and didn't put any stock in the outcome. There was no mention by her of disenfranchising voters back then...http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/10/10/five_democratic_hopefuls_pull_names_off_michigan_b allot/ he pulled his name on Oct. 9, 2007. Apparently some state's voters are more equal than others. ironic? no?

[Margarita]

What I don't understand is - why doesn't Obama just agree to seat the entire Michigan and Florida delegation? It is my understanding that he would still have the required number of delegates to win the nomination and he would come off looking quite good - IMO. I realize that it is ultimately up to the rules committee but at least he would not come off looking like he wants to disenfranchise any voters. Thoughts?

[pgurney]

I'm sitting here watching the rules committee meeting on CNN and learned something new. And how ironic it is. Florida's primary election got moved up to January 29 because the republican legislature put it into the Election Reform bill (to require a paper trail for votes). The democrats tried to amend that part of it, but were out-voted by the republicans.

So Florida now faces loss of their votes because of the Election Reform bill.

[Beach Runner]

I am watching it, too. I need to be doing the laundry. But it is so interesting because it is so complicated. I just can't pull myself away from the TV.

[pgurney]

Did I just hear Wexler right? Did he say that Obama supports seating all the delegates?

[goofer44]

I am surprised at the civility being observed. Not typical of democrats. :floor:
I thought Joyner and Wechsler were particularly eloquent. Carl Levein,who is speaking now on behalf of Michigan, is making good sense. This process looks like it will unite the democratic party.

[Beach Runner]

Did I just hear Wexler right? Did he say that Obama supports seating all the delegates?
But at 50%. The Ausman appeal.

[Beach Runner]

Punzy, I'll bet you know the answer to this question.

Let's assume the best of all possible worlds for Clinton -- that the DNC votes for 100% of the delegates in FL and MI to be counted, that Clinton wins 100% of the delegates in the remaining primaries, and that Clinton gets the votes of 100% of the uncommitted superdelegates. What would the total Clinton-Obama delegate count be?

EDIT: Never mind. CNN just ran several scenarios. They said that t would be hard for Clinton to win in the delegate counts if they only go with a 50% weighting of FL/MI delegates unless she gets virtually 100% of the undeclared superdelegates. If she gets a 100% weighting with FL/MI delegates, things change. Plus CNN (yes, CNN, not Fox) actually made the argument that Clinton has a better chance of beating McCain in the general election than Obama. Obviously, that will sway the superdelegates. The bottom line of the superdelegates has to be that they want the Dems to win in November, regardless of candidate.

[jdarg]

I am surprised at the civility being observed. Not typical of democrats. :floor:
I thought Joyner and Wechsler were particularly eloquent. Carl Levein,who is speaking now on behalf of Michigan, is making good sense. This process looks like it will unite the democratic party.


I hope you meant to say "not typical of politicians", since Republicans don't hold the title of masters of civility either.;-)

[Beach Runner]

I hope you meant to say "not typical of politicians", since Republicans don't hold the title of masters of civility either.;-)
I agree. I'm pretty cynical about politicians.

[greenroomsurfer]

Don't you know that the government does not want us to be practical as a whole an they don't want us to do things ahead of time. They want us to wait till the last minute and and be non-productive. It's the bureaucratic way, so the state of Florida and Michigan are being penalized. And once again Florida will be the brunt of all the joke and they can blame us for putting whom ever in office.:bang::bang::bang:

[goofer44]

I hope you meant to say "not typical of politicians", since Republicans don't hold the title of masters of civility either.;-)

My feeble attempt at humor. I apologize if I offended anyone.

[jdarg]

My feeble attempt at humor. I apologize if I offended anyone.

Oh Goofy- no offense taken. And I knew you were trying to be funny.:wave:

[30A Skunkape]

Well they just kicked a bunch of Hillary's loudmouth gals out of the committee meeting. I guess they will all go see Sex and the City now:lol:

[Beach Runner]

Hillary got the shaft again. Bill gave it to her (actually he gave it to Monica) a few years ago. 50% weighted delegates in FL and MI. She loses. For women my age, this breaks my heart. :(

EDIT: CNN's "What if?" this AM says, based on the prediction that Hillary will get 60% of the vote in Puerto Rico, will tie Obama in the other remaining primaries, and will get half of Edwards' delegates, she will need 90% of the superdelegates to win and Obama will only need about 25 of the superdelegates to get to 2118. But on Meet the Press, Ickes (representing the Hillary camp) didn't rule out a showdown at the convention.

[wrobert]

All of these scenarios are based on pledged delegates actually voting the way they pledged at the convention. If Hillary pushes on to the convention, then I would suspect that she knows something the rest of us do not.

[InletBchDweller]

All of these scenarios are based on pledged delegates actually voting the way they pledged at the convention. If Hillary pushes on to the convention, then I would suspect that she knows something the rest of us do not.

The Clintons do scare me. Who knows what they will come up with next.

[tistheseason]

Hillary got the shaft again. Bill gave it to her (actually he gave it to Monica) a few years ago. 50% weighted delegates in FL and MI. She loses. For women my age, this breaks my heart. :(


I know this is true. I've heard the same sentiment from many. But I just don't get it. It has to go beyond being discriminated against based on gender. I'm just not sure what it is. . . .

[Beach Runner]

I know this is true. I've heard the same sentiment from many. But I just don't get it. It has to go beyond being discriminated against based on gender. I'm just not sure what it is. . . .
Like I've said before, I wanted to be the first woman president. As a kid, I went to the library and checked out the autobiography of each U.S. president to figure out how he got there. Then my plans sort of shifted -- the math thing. But there aren't that many females who have advanced degrees in math and computer science, so I guess I've blazed a trail of my own.

So I have always looked forward to the day that we would have a woman president. Clinton is so intelligent and is our chance for the dream to come true. We women who have blazed trails so that our younger sisters can have the opportunities that they take for granted really need Senator Clinton to become the next President of the United States.

And BTW I am a Republican.

[goofer44]

Like I've said before, I wanted to be the first woman president. As a kid, I went to the library and checked out the autobiography of each U.S. president to figure out how he got there. Then my plans sort of shifted -- the math thing. But there aren't that many females who have advanced degrees in math and computer science, so I guess I've blazed a trail of my own.

So I have always looked forward to the day that we would have a woman president. Clinton is so intelligent and is our chance for the dream to come true. We women who have blazed trails so that our younger sisters can have the opportunities that they take for granted really need Senator Clinton to become the next President of the United States.

And BTW I am a Republican.

Your personal achievments are very admirable. I take issue with your assertion that we need a woman president. What we need is the best person to become president. I don't think that person is Hillary Clinton. I don't dispute her intelligence or courage, but her lack of personal character and integrity is very troubling to me. I have no doubt at all that we will have a woman president in the not too distant future. I am sure the elections of 2016 and 2020 and beyond will see an abundance of women candidates seeking our highest office. But Mrs. Clinton is the wrong person at the wrong time.

[Beach Runner]

Your personal achievments are very admirable. I take issue with your assertion that we need a woman president. What we need is the best person to become president. I don't think that person is Hillary Clinton. I don't dispute her intelligence or courage, but her lack of personal character and integrity is very troubling to me. I have no doubt at all that we will have a woman president in the not too distant future. I am sure the elections of 2016 and 2020 and beyond will see an abundance of women candidates seeking our highest office. But Mrs. Clinton is the wrong person at the wrong time.
Thank you.

I totally understand where you are coming from. However, I think that as a female, she had to do what she had to do to get where she is. I'll admit that I have called her a "ho" for not dumping Bill after Monicagate.

That being said, I just want to see a smart female become the President in my lifetime. I know that probably doesn't make sense to most of you.

"I have a dream ... that one day a woman will be President of the United States."

[cp]

Clinton is losing because she ran a poor campaign, had no post super-tuesday plan and was convinced she woul coast, uncontested to the nomination. I understand that many women had pinned their hopes on her but it also offends me when the excuse of anti-feminism is used as a crutch to explain away a losing strategy.

And the absolute gall of Bill Clinton to whine that his wife is being disrespected when he showed her the most disrespect of all by deceiving her so publicly!
Chickpea, this is something I do agree with you on!:wave:

[Beach Runner]

Chickpea, this is something I do agree with you on!:wave:
I will have to agree with the second paragraph. And unfortunately the first sentence makes sense. The second sentence ... :(

[30ashopper]

That being said, I just want to see a smart female become the President in my lifetime. I know that probably doesn't make sense to most of you.

"I have a dream ... that one day a woman will be President of the United States."

I read an article this weekend that stated McCain #1 top of the list pick for V.P. was Sarah Palin. While it looks like we won't be getting a woman for president, we might be seeing our first female V.P.!

[wrobert]

I read an article this weekend that stated McCain #1 top of the list pick for V.P. was Sarah Palin. While it looks like we won't be getting a woman for president, we might be seeing our first female V.P.!


Interesting choice. Now does McCain just pick her when Clinton picks Obama or does he pick soon so it does not look like a response to Clinton.

[BeachSiO2]

Interesting choice. Now does McCain just pick her when Clinton picks Obama or does he pick soon so it does not look like a response to Clinton.

I wish I knew where there was a fishing smiley as I believe it is in order here. :lol:

[wrobert]

I wish I knew where there was a fishing smiley as I believe it is in order here. :lol:


You really have gotten to know me to well.

[6thGen]

Palin had a baby last month born with Down Syndrome. Can't see a new mom and the primary caregiver of a child with a disability taking on a grueling campaign.

[Rita]

Palin had a baby last month born with Down Syndrome. Can't see a new mom and the primary caregiver of a child with a disability taking on a grueling campaign.


:idontno:...Some of our new moms who are in the military go back to a grueling war, leaving behind their babies ....



.

[scooterbug44]

She could have her husband take care of the baby - a similar system has been working for years!

[Gypsea]

Excellent responses ladies!!! :clap:

[SHELLY]

.
So if the DNC is only going to allow half-votes from our Democratic delegates...would it be known as "Florida's Half-Ass Delegation?" <Sounds about right to me...go Floriduh!>

http://www.lasalledemocrats.com/donkeys/donkey_shinyteeth.gif

.

[30A Skunkape]

.
So if the DNC is only going to allow half-votes from our Democatic delegates...would it be known as "Florida's Half-Ass Delegation?" <Sounds about right to me...go Floriduh!>

http://www.lasalledemocrats.com/donkeys/donkey_shinyteeth.gif

.

:lolabove:

[scooterbug44]

The Democratic National Committee ruled that delegates from Michigan and Florida will get only half votes at the party’s convention in August. What do you think?

http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/wdyt_photo3.article.jpg

Gus Yarrington,
Ice Cream Truck Driver

"Sounds like the kind of opaque and seemingly arbitrary arrangement that's sure to please everyone."



http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/wdyt_photo6.article.jpg

Pam Stroh,
Self Defense Instructor

"What losers. Have fun hanging out with Puerto Rico and Guam."



http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/wdyt_photo1.article.jpg

Chris Patterson,
Window Washer

"Given the emigration rate in Michigan and the mortality rate in Florida, I bet the revised delegate counts will actually be more representative of the states' populations come convention time."

[elgordoboy]

:lolabove:

[6thGen]

She could have her husband take care of the baby - a similar system has been working for years!

I didn't say it couldn't happen, I just listed that as one reason it wouldn't. Raising a disabled child is much different than raising a 6 year old, which was the age of her youngest when she took a serious office. I know women can do things men can do, and hooray for Wendy the Welder in WWII, but what one should do and what one could do are two entirely different things. She's in her early 40's. She has plenty of time left. Damn, feminists annoy me.