White elephant in the room

[Chickpea]

An excellent post by Frank Rich of the NY Times - this feigned ignorance on the part of so many - doubtless than many people are rightly outraged by Wright's comments - but where is the same sense of indignation and condemnation when just as hateful rhetoric is spewed by other pastors...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/04/opinion/04rich.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin

[Smiling JOe]

IMO, getting an endorsement from a mega-church preacher is much different than sitting in church with a mega-church preacher for twenty years, saying that he is your spiritual councilor, asking him to conduct the marriage ceremony for you, and asking him to Baptize your kids, and saying that he is close enough to you that he is like a loved family member.

I have heard Barack say those things about Rev Wright, but I have not heard John McCain say the same about Hagee. The defense in the article is weak, about McCain seeking out Hagee. This is a political election year, and these candidates will take on whomever they think can win them votes. Barack spent twenty years in Rev Wright's church, not just this election year.

[Chickpea]

IMO, getting an endorsement from a mega-church preacher is much different than sitting in church with a mega-church preacher for twenty years, saying that he is your spiritual councilor, asking him to conduct the marriage ceremony for you, and asking him to Baptize your kids, and saying that he is close enough to you that he is like a loved family member.

I have heard Barack say those things about Rev Wright, but I have not heard John McCain say the same about Hagee. The defense in the article is weak, about McCain seeking out Hagee. This is a political election year, and these candidates will take on whomever they think can win them votes. Barack spent twenty years in Rev Wright's church, not just this election year.

I respectfully disagree with your premise that Rich's argument is weak - it is poignant to me and hits home.

All I can say is that by reading Obama's own words in his speeches and in his books (specifically Dreams from my Father) it is quite obvious to me that he is sincere in his faith and genuine in his desire for unity and dealing with the thorny issues of race and bigotry (still well alive in this country unfortunately) - and frankly, I would add that a man of Wright's age who has lived through discrimination, through the civil rights movement and its aftermath (the positive and negative) would be hard pressed to not be angry at times.

I know many people on this board disagree with me on this topic but I do not believe Obama is the same consumate politician as Hillary and McCain who will say or do anything to get elected - I refuse to be that cynical and chose to believe that Obama is still very dignified, extremely intelligent, very inspirational and would hopefully get scores and scores of people either re-interested for the first time in years or for the first time ever, in the political process, in the strength of their own voices and in their abilities to shape their own future. And just for little ole me whose world and family lives across many continents, I see how hopeful other people are for a new shift in american policy.

[rapunzel]

IMO, getting an endorsement from a mega-church preacher is much different than sitting in church with a mega-church preacher for twenty years, saying that he is your spiritual councilor, asking him to conduct the marriage ceremony for you, and asking him to Baptize your kids, and saying that he is close enough to you that he is like a loved family member.

I have heard Barack say those things about Rev Wright, but I have not heard John McCain say the same about Hagee. The defense in the article is weak, about McCain seeking out Hagee. This is a political election year, and these candidates will take on whomever they think can win them votes. Barack spent twenty years in Rev Wright's church, not just this election year.

SJ, where are you getting your information? Obama never called Wright his spiritual mentor, that's a Republican talking point. Wright himself has called it an exaggeration.

Frank Rich addressed your argument specifically in his article:
But those who try to give Mr. McCain a pass for his embrace of a problematic preacher have a thin case. It boils down to this: Mr. McCain was not a parishioner for 20 years at Mr. Hagee’s church.

That defense implies, incorrectly, that Mr. McCain was a passive recipient of this bigot’s endorsement. In fact, by his own account, Mr. McCain sought out Mr. Hagee, who is perhaps best known for trying to drum up a pre-emptive “holy war” with Iran. (This preacher’s rantings may tell us more about Mr. McCain’s policy views than Mr. Wright’s tell us about Mr. Obama’s.) Even after Mr. Hagee’s Catholic bashing bubbled up in the mainstream media, Mr. McCain still did not reject and denounce him, as Mr. Obama did an unsolicited endorser, Louis Farrakhan, at the urging of Tim Russert and Hillary Clinton. Mr. McCain instead told George Stephanopoulos two Sundays ago that while he condemns any “anti-anything” remarks by Mr. Hagee, he is still “glad to have his endorsement.”

I wonder if Mr. McCain would have given the same answer had Mr. Stephanopoulos confronted him with the graphic video of the pastor in full “Great Whore” glory. But Mr. McCain didn’t have to fear so rude a transgression. Mr. Hagee’s videos have never had the same circulation on television as Mr. Wright’s. A sonorous white preacher spouting venom just doesn’t have the telegenic zing of a theatrical black man.

I think the point Mr. Rich is making is that Sen. Obama was widely considered a post-race candidate, and attempts to dismiss him as the black candidate failed to bring the divisive issue of race to the forefront because there is nothing very different about Obama other than the color of his skin. The race issue only started to stick after he was linked to Wright, and Wright's blackness, and video of the different sort of church service was played endlessly by the media.

If you aren't appalled by Hagee, then you're not appalled by Wright's words...you're repelled by something else about those video clips. The fact that Hagee's most shocking moments aren't being looped constantly, and that McCain is not being called out to defend or denounce the remarks ad nauseum, is the white elephant, not Hagee per se.

[Chickpea]

SJ, where are you getting your information? Obama never called Wright his spiritual mentor, that's a Republican talking point. Wright himself has called it an exaggeration.

Frank Rich addressed your argument specifically in his article:


I think the point Mr. Rich is making is that Sen. Obama was widely considered a post-race candidate, and attempts to dismiss him as the black candidate failed to bring the divisive issue of race to the forefront because there is nothing very different about Obama other than the color of his skin. The race issue only started to stick after he was linked to Wright, and Wright's blackness, and video of the different sort of church service was played endlessly by the media.

If you aren't appalled by Hagee, then you're not appalled by Wright's words...you're repelled by something else about those video clips. The fact that Hagee's most shocking moments aren't being looped constantly, and that McCain is not being called out to defend or denounce the remarks ad nauseum, is the white elephant, not Hagee per se.

You stated that much more eloquently than I did - but thanks for making the point! I thought that the white elephant reference was clear but I guess it was not.

[Bob]

I guess John Lennon was on to something

[goodwitch58]

IMO, getting an endorsement from a mega-church preacher is much different than sitting in church with a mega-church preacher for twenty years, saying that he is your spiritual councilor, asking him to conduct the marriage ceremony for you, and asking him to Baptize your kids, and saying that he is close enough to you that he is like a loved family member.

I have heard Barack say those things about Rev Wright, but I have not heard John McCain say the same about Hagee. The defense in the article is weak, about McCain seeking out Hagee. This is a political election year, and these candidates will take on whomever they think can win them votes. Barack spent twenty years in Rev Wright's church, not just this election year.

SJ, perhaps you could watch/listen/read the first ten minutes of Bill Moyers' Journal from Friday night....

[Smiling JOe]

Perhaps you could give me a brief summary, as they don't show repeats of Bill Moyer's on my public tv channel, and my internet is too slow to download it from youtube.

[goodwitch58]

okay I will later today or tonight. He captured the essence of the argument...IMO.

[goodwitch58]

Actually, SJ, you can go to www.pbs.org and read the transcript.:D