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greenstreet
03-04-2008, 03:22 PM
We're coming into town for spring break with parents and grandparents who like to "eat well." We have the following places in mind: Fish Out of Water, Cafe 30-A, Basmatti's, Gravel Road and Criollas. What are we missing? No fried seafood joints (although we love them personally, especially Snapperheads), and not too far from 30-A.

Thanks for the help.

Miss Kitty
03-04-2008, 03:35 PM
Borago

NancyEsq
03-04-2008, 03:44 PM
Cafe Tango
D&K Cafe

steele mama
03-04-2008, 03:47 PM
Borago. :biggrin:

hnooe
03-04-2008, 03:52 PM
Cafe Tango
D&K Cafe

YES!!! Big Ditto on those 2.

phillycheese
03-04-2008, 04:00 PM
It's not fine dining, but try out Stinky's Fish Camp. For fine dining, try Criolla's, Borago, and Onano. All are great. Also, Destin Chops is opening this week.

Buckhead Rick
03-04-2008, 04:09 PM
I'de pass on Bargo, unless they have just done it, they have not changed their menu in two years.
The places that moved from NO are the most innovative, D&K, Fire.

Diane4145
03-04-2008, 04:12 PM
Hi Greenstreet,

The following link is a wealth of information, RE: one of the best restaurants, in the area! http://www.restaurantfire.com It doesn't hurt that one of their pheonominal server's, happens to be my son!:wub: Russ is very "customer centered", like his mom!;-) From all that I've heard, you'll enjoy a wonderful experience! I haven't been back to the area, but, can't wait till I do! The following is a previous thread, where they rec'd rave reviews, as well! http://www.sowal.com/bb/showthread.php?t=16739&highlight=fire+restaurant (http://www.sowal.com/bb/showthread.php?t=16739&highlight=fire+restaurant)Have a safe trip and enjoy!

Diane:D
We're coming into town for spring break with parents and grandparents who like to "eat well." We have the following places in mind: Fish Out of Water, Cafe 30-A, Basmatti's, Gravel Road and Criollas. What are we missing? No fried seafood joints (although we love them personally, especially Snapperheads), and not too far from 30-A.

Thanks for the help.

NancyEsq
03-04-2008, 04:15 PM
Yes - I should have also recommended Fire, it is on a par with D&K and Cafe Tango.

weimowner
03-04-2008, 04:17 PM
Seering's Piano Cafe' at Redfish Village!! Small, quaint great selection of Wines and Liquors. Small menu but executed very well. Plus David Seering performs ususally Tues-Sat. Dinner only. He is the best pianist I have ever heard with a mighty voice. His Phantom of the Opera is not to be missed. Also great bar staff with Jimmy Engle, part time stand-up, and Bob 'at the Bar' Matthews. Definitely a must!!;-)

Miss Kitty
03-04-2008, 05:40 PM
I'de pass on Bargo, unless they have just done it, they have not changed their menu in two years.
The places that moved from NO are the most innovative, D&K, Fire.

Borago? Why change perfection? :idontno:

potatovixen
03-04-2008, 06:53 PM
The new Graffiti in Carillon Beach.

Beach Runner
03-04-2008, 06:57 PM
In addition to Café Thirty-A and Borago, I like Bud & Alley's. If you want a "fine dining" atmosphere, ask for a table in the main dining room. The other rooms are more casual, a.k.a. tents.

skippertoo
03-04-2008, 07:26 PM
YES!!! Big Ditto on those 2.

x3:cool:

isacksphoto
03-04-2008, 08:05 PM
Fire is great! Can't go wrong with 30A Cafe. But Cafe Tango is the most romantic and special resturant on 30A!

Ilovethebeach
03-04-2008, 08:32 PM
I have to agree with Cafe Tango. Some of the best food I have had. Very romantic.

tsutcli
03-04-2008, 08:36 PM
For Italian I like Enzos on 393 just off 30-a. A little out of the way but the food is great. Boragos, Basmatis andthe rest mentioned are also very good.

phillycheese
03-04-2008, 08:40 PM
Also, gotta mention Cafe Provence. Good luck picking out of all these recommendations :D.

rdelong43065
03-04-2008, 09:08 PM
Mmmmmm... Enzo's :wub:

NancyEsq
03-04-2008, 09:29 PM
For Italian I like Enzos on 393 just off 30-a. A little out of the way but the food is great. Boragos, Basmatis andthe rest mentioned are also very good.

Enzo's got a great review in the local paper while we were there and we wanted to try it. We just ran out of days.

sowalgayboi
03-05-2008, 01:17 AM
Enzo's?...the same place that can not get their spelling correct on any of their advertisements? i.e. Valentines Blast/Post... Oh...and when they, supposedly, buy from SAM's Club or the like... that is supposed to up the wow factor?!?! And not just dry goods but "food"?! No Thanks!!! I will go with most of the other places rec'd here!!

Where are you getting the Sam's club info? Looks like the same sysco truck that frequents many if not all of our restaurants.

HYDROSTAN
03-05-2008, 06:48 AM
Borago? Why change perfection? :idontno:
Ditto:clap::clap:Barago is excellent

Beach Runner
03-05-2008, 08:27 AM
Borago? Why change perfection? :idontno:
I'll have to say that even though we love Borago, we eat there so much (once or twice a month) that it would be nice for a little change, like maybe a chef's special on the weekend menu for something different. Or maybe I could try the a couple of items on the menu I haven't had. When I was there a few weeks ago, the couple next to me ordered the pork and told me it's so wonderful that that's all they ever order when the go there.

BeachDreamin'
03-05-2008, 01:19 PM
Try FIRE. We ate there twice last week when we were vacationing in the area. Delicious food, good wine menu and great service. FIRE is one block north of 30A on Route 283 in Grayton.

scooterbug44
03-05-2008, 01:56 PM
Fish Out of Water, Basmati's and FIRE!

Vintij in Sandestin (across from factory stores) is also a personal favorite.

Here4Good
03-05-2008, 03:48 PM
I recommend Vintij, also - it is a wonderful, cozy atmosphere inside, the food is imaginative and tasty (and plentiful - I get a little tired of getting a dab of this and a dab of that at some places), they have sushi (which is excellent) on Friday and Saturday, the wait staff is excellent, and (of course) the wine choices are magnificent.

At least drop by there for wine and appetizers - I bet you stay for dinner.

Indigo Jill
03-05-2008, 06:08 PM
Is Borago really "fine dining'? I guess I need to know how the original poster defines that as, IMO, there aren't many fine dining establishments around.

My definition is: you have to "dress" for dinner (you would never think to wear flip flops, shorts, t-shirts or jeans); the menu is innovative and changes often, and includes a daily Chef's special or special Chef's menu - prices are on the high end because the Chef, who is highly trained, uses the best available ingredients - it's the kind of things you wouldn't know where to buy to cook the dish at home; the wine list is more high end overall; real linens are used on the tables; and the atmosphere is calm.

The few places locally that fit my definition that I can think at this moment are Fish Out of Water, Cafe Provence, Basmati's and Cafe Thirty-A (although Thirty-A is a bit noisy). If I think of any others, I'll post - suffering from end-of-the-day brain freeze.

scooterbug44
03-05-2008, 06:24 PM
Definitely depends on your perspective. For some fine dining probably means there isn't a drive-thru!

To me, fine dining means a restaurant with no small children or TVs, uniformed and professional staff, great food skillfully prepared, great service, and real furniture.

Vintij and Fire have some of the best food, presentation, and service around, but I wear jeans and there isn't a tablecloth.

sowalgayboi
03-05-2008, 06:48 PM
I don't think any of the restaurants on 30A have dress codes. That I am aware of anyway. I have eaten at Fish out of Water dressed in business attire and I've eaten there in jeans and flip flops. :idontno:

drsvelte
03-06-2008, 08:47 PM
Borago, Vintij, Bistro Bijeau (in Sandestin) are all very good. If you're willing to venture west to Destin, Marina Cafe is at the top of my list.

Tootsie
03-07-2008, 12:38 AM
Is Borago really "fine dining'? I guess I need to know how the original poster defines that as, IMO, there aren't many fine dining establishments around.
</p>
hmmmm.. I think I understand what you are saying here Indigo J. I would like to add that we are a unique community with many kinds of fine dining experiences. so, let's talk fine dining in an untraditional sense.for one, many love borago because it is precisely that. fine dining in a casual atmosphere. plus, its just such a comfortable and funn place to relax and enjoy the experience of great food we know we love and keep coming back for. its a unique place where people love going back and back and back because the food is outstanding and because it is comfortable, and feels just right. it can be noisy too - but only adds to the atmosphere. also, the people working here make us feel so welcome, and like part of the family. very great place to have in SoWal. It has become an important gathering place and we could not live without it. FINE it is. Fine dining is definitely found at D&K. we all know this first hand! and you can dine on scrumptious seafood and steak in the small private Ann Rice room overlooking the gulf. Fleming's may be a chain, but it is a fine dining experience if there ever was one in SoWal. romantic. makes me feel like I'm on vacation in a city somewhere far away. Onano - fine dining in a warm & romantic/intimate atmosphere. love love love the food and wine experience here. Many are loving Fire - I've only been for lunch. didn't knock my socks off. need to go for dinner. but if these guys are out of NO, then I totally believe they are fine. Bistro Bijou - Baytowne Wharf. a lovely place and quite fine. We are so fortunate to have such a great number of fine dining establishments in SoWal. Especially as they are each unique and can't be replicated in another town.. it just wouldn't be the same. (except the chains of course... but Flemings... yummmm).

sowalgayboi
03-07-2008, 01:14 AM
Tootsie, let me know and we will keep a chair warm for you at brunch!

Indigo Jill
03-07-2008, 07:42 AM
</p>
hmmmm.. I think I understand what you are saying here Indigo J. I would like to add that we are a unique community with many kinds of fine dining experiences. so, let's talk fine dining in an untraditional sense.for one, many love borago because it is precisely that. fine dining in a casual atmosphere. plus, its just such a comfortable and funn place to relax and enjoy the experience of great food we know we love and keep coming back for. its a unique place where people love going back and back and back because the food is outstanding and because it is comfortable, and feels just right. it can be noisy too - but only adds to the atmosphere. also, the people working here make us feel so welcome, and like part of the family. very great place to have in SoWal. It has become an important gathering place and we could not live without it. FINE it is. Fine dining is definitely found at D&K. we all know this first hand! and you can dine on scrumptious seafood and steak in the small private Ann Rice room overlooking the gulf. Fleming's may be a chain, but it is a fine dining experience if there ever was one in SoWal. romantic. makes me feel like I'm on vacation in a city somewhere far away. Onano - fine dining in a warm & romantic/intimate atmosphere. love love love the food and wine experience here. Many are loving Fire - I've only been for lunch. didn't knock my socks off. need to go for dinner. but if these guys are out of NO, then I totally believe they are fine. Bistro Bijou - Baytowne Wharf. a lovely place and quite fine. We are so fortunate to have such a great number of fine dining establishments in SoWal. Especially as they are each unique and can't be replicated in another town.. it just wouldn't be the same. (except the chains of course... but Flemings... yummmm).

Totally agree, Tootsie - we have many great restaurants that serve amazing food - I didn't say otherwise. I said, IMO, we don't have many "fine dining establishements". Most restaurants in SoWal would be catagorized as "upscale casual", not "fine dining".

I guess a better explanation of what I would consider "fine dining" are those restaurants ranked highly in the Zagat guide or a coveted ranking in the Michelin Guide, or who have received AAA Four or Five Diamond status - all of which are standards used in the industry. I forgot Criollas - I believe it has been given Diamond status.

she says that fine dining doesn't exist in sowal.

And I absolutely didn't say that either - I said there are not many fine dining establishments.

Tootsie
03-07-2008, 10:04 AM
Fine dining in SoWal is truly relative. this town is not Atlanta nor should it ever be, despite efforts of some to make it so.

Mango
03-07-2008, 10:40 AM
Fine dining in SoWal is truly relative.

Fine dining to me is being surrounded by fine people and good food. :wave:

weimowner
03-07-2008, 11:25 AM
Now this is what I call a nice and review, that is also on point.;-)

http://www.emeraldcoast.com/dining/article_display.php?a=265

Make your reservations quickly. And enjoy!

Indigo Jill
03-07-2008, 11:47 AM
Fine dining in SoWal is truly relative. this town is not Atlanta nor should it ever be, despite efforts of some to make it so.

Yes...as signified by the arrival of such upscale chains like...Flemings (located in Atlanta).

Indigo Jill
03-07-2008, 11:49 AM
Now this is what I call a nice and review, that is also on point.;-)

http://www.emeraldcoast.com/dining/article_display.php?a=265

Make your reservations quickly. And enjoy!

Have heard a lot about Seerings - thanks for link to the review! Looks like a neat dining experience - we'll be there soon.

potatovixen
03-07-2008, 11:57 AM
Fine dining to me is being surrounded by fine people and good food. :wave:

I'll drink to that! Some of the best dining experiences I've had have been at places none would consider "fine dining." Good food, prepared with care, and shared with people you love, beats dinner at a fancy restaurant any day.

Tootsie
03-07-2008, 11:57 AM
Yes...as signified by the arrival of such upscale chains like...Flemings (located in Atlanta).

yes, and other chains coming into the "mall" areas as well. while select few are nice to have locally and to visit occasionally, they will never define the area or compete in 30A/SoWal character. but they do serve sandestin resort perfectly.



:roll:

John R
03-07-2008, 09:49 PM
Casual excellent dining; Smiling Fish Cafe

Tootsie
03-07-2008, 10:05 PM
Casual excellent dining; Smiling Fish Cafe

you said it. one of my all time favorite spots on 30a.:wub:

tsutcli
03-08-2008, 12:02 AM
Totally agree, Tootsie - we have many great restaurants that serve amazing food - I didn't say otherwise. I said, IMO, we don't have many "fine dining establishements". Most restaurants in SoWal would be catagorized as "upscale casual", not "fine dining".

I guess a better explanation of what I would consider "fine dining" are those restaurants ranked highly in the Zagat guide or a coveted ranking in the Michelin Guide, or who have received AAA Four or Five Diamond status - all of which are standards used in the industry. I forgot Criollas - I believe it has been given Diamond status.



And I absolutely didn't say that either - I said there are not many fine dining establishments.

Watercolors Fish Out of Water has a AAA 4 Diamond Rating but is very casual re: dress code.

Beach Runner
03-08-2008, 10:02 AM
Fine dining in SoWal is truly relative. this town is not Atlanta nor should it ever be, despite efforts of some to make it so.
Amen, sister!

That's one reason we don't support the chain restaurants to the west and east of 30-A when we're down here. We get enough of those in the Atlanta area. We want a different experience here (although something like a Doc Chey's would be nice -- it's a chain of five ;-)).

Tootsie
03-08-2008, 10:16 AM
Florida's dress code is totally different no matter where you go. it's always casual. from bathing suit casual to going out on the town/cocktail casual. coastal casual. in other words, just about anything goes around here. suits me.

Beach Runner
03-08-2008, 11:06 AM
We always said at UF that you could tell the full professors from the associate and assistant professors because they were the only ones who didn't wear flip-flops to class.:lol:

Angelrlc
03-08-2008, 12:54 PM
My friend and I went and ate at Pandoras and it was amazing! I have been to the bar area but never sat down and ate, great steaks.

Smiling JOe
03-08-2008, 01:20 PM
I'de pass on Bargo, unless they have just done it, they have not changed their menu in two years.
...It's true that their menu doesn't change often, but for someone coming to the beach no more than once or twice a year, they won't think about the menu not changing. For local frequenters, that's another story. Most people tend to repeatedly order the same menu item at any given restaurant anyway.

Beach Runner
03-08-2008, 06:06 PM
It's true that their menu doesn't change often, but for someone coming to the beach no more than once or twice a year, they won't think about the menu not changing. For local frequenters, that's another story. Most people tend to repeatedly order the same menu item at any given restaurant anyway.
True.dat. As in "The Kitty Special."

Miss Kitty
03-08-2008, 06:16 PM
True.dat. As in "The Kitty Special."

:clap:...oh man have I been craving that Arugula salad!!!! Go have one for me!

scooterbug44
03-08-2008, 06:38 PM
In the spirit of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" I don't have a problem with restaurants having the same basic menu, but I always enjoy seasonal dishes or a special (or 3) to break up the monotonony for frequent diners.

IMO the chef isn't using the freshest ingredients if every dish is the same 365 days a year. ;-)

Beach Runner
03-09-2008, 10:31 AM
:clap:...oh man have I been craving that Arugula salad!!!! Go have one for me!
I tried something different this time -- a Caesar salad and veal meatballs with polenta. Yum!

tsutcli
03-10-2008, 01:26 PM
If you are here for a Sunday the best brunch deal in town , I think, is at the Santa Rosa Beach Club. Great views of the beach, large selection of good eats, linen and silverware but unpretentious. Best of all the price; $15 per. Reservations recommended during in season.

sowalgayboi
03-10-2008, 06:54 PM
If you are here for a Sunday the best brunch deal in town , I think, is at the Santa Rosa Beach Club. Great views of the beach, large selection of good eats, linen and silverware but unpretentious. Best of all the price; $15 per. Reservations recommended during in season.

Sorry it just doesn't compare to Fire's brunch. I am slightly biased, but you really can't beat bottomless champagne.

Tootsie
03-10-2008, 07:04 PM
I tried something different this time -- a Caesar
salad and veal meatballs with polenta. Yum!

omg. my very favorite thing on the menu. veal meatballs with polenta. I usually order a side of angel hair with marinara.

:wub::wave:

scooterbug44
03-10-2008, 07:08 PM
I don't have a recommendation, but I do have a plea!

Please leave the little kids at home if you are going to any of the restaurants mentioned as fine/fine casual dining in this thread!

Especially if you're the type of people who think it's cute/ok to let them run wild, break things, and annoy other diners. :angry:

Mango
03-10-2008, 07:50 PM
If you are here for a Sunday the best brunch deal in town , I think, is at the Santa Rosa Beach Club. Great views of the beach, large selection of good eats, linen and silverware but unpretentious. Best of all the price; $15 per. Reservations recommended during in season.

I don't drink, so I'll take the view over champagne anytime. Besides they have awesome cheesy grits and you're right, great price for the combo of good eats, view and ambiance. :drool:

Scooter? Are unruly children really a problem? I mean, most families are on vacation, may not have brought a nanny or have a sitter, and usually won't go out if their children are tired from a day at the beach or pool. Not to mention the whole family is usually jovial since they are vacationing. Unless the kid is screaming bloody hail or playing rodeo roundup with the lobsters, I enjoy seeing families eating out.
(even lobster rodeo could be fun to watch) :blush:

Beachbummett
03-10-2008, 07:54 PM
If you are here for a Sunday the best brunch deal in town , I think, is at the Santa Rosa Beach Club. Great views of the beach, large selection of good eats, linen and silverware but unpretentious. Best of all the price; $15 per. Reservations recommended during in season.


You better go before Mango does....if you want any grits. :biggrin:

I don't drink, so I'll take the view over champagne anytime. Besides they have awesome cheesy grits. :drool:

Scooter? Are unruly children really a problem? I mean most families are on vacation, may not have brought a nanny or have a sitter, and usually won't go out if their children are tired from a day at the beach or pool. Not to mention the whole family is usually jovial since they are vacationing. Unless the kid is screaming bloody hail or playing rodeo roundup with the lobsters, I enjoy seeing families eating out.
(even lobster rodeo could be fun to watch) :blush:

:wave:

seagrovegirl
03-10-2008, 07:55 PM
I don't drink, so I'll take the view over champagne anytime. Besides they have awesome cheesy grits. :drool:

Scooter? Are unruly children really a problem? I mean most families are on vacation, may not have brought a nanny or have a sitter, and usually won't go out if their children are tired from a day at the beach or pool. Not to mention the whole family is usually jovial since they are vacationing. Unless the kid is screaming bloody hail or playing rodeo roundup with the lobsters, I enjoy seeing families eating out.
(even lobster rodeo could be fun to watch) :blush:

I love kids...when fine dining, I appreciate an adult atmosphere. Kids are worn out when on vacation or just plain hyped up from being away from their normal routine. I recommend that children dine before 6:30. I've been proven wrong...some kids do fine and are well behaved...while others are plain monsters.:D

ItzKatzTime
03-10-2008, 08:00 PM
Thanks to everyone that suggested D&K's for this category. It's so hard to be everything to everyone....but we try. Sometimes you will see sequins and on that very same night group of tourists arrive in shorts, flaps and T-shirts. We are still evolving as each month passes......but we will always have wonderful food and plenty of art work to keep you talking.

God bless you all....I have missed you.

:wave::wub:Kat:welcome:

scooterbug44
03-10-2008, 08:36 PM
The children that prompted that post were! Nobody complains about well behaved and well supervised kids in restaurants :blink: There are some great kids who are welcome at the next table (or to share mine) at any restaurant I frequent - they are well behaved, enjoy the wide variety of food, and are funn. Then there are the kids who are roaming free 15-20' from their table, destroying the landscaping, moving/knocking over anything not nailed down, running into the road, breaking outdoor lights, screaming, getting underfoot of the waitstaff, and there is no adult supervision or discipline whatsoever. :angry:There are many restaurants in Sowal that are family or casual restaurants - which means there are options besides ruining other people's meals at more upscale restaurants!

Mango
03-10-2008, 09:17 PM
The children that prompted that post were! Nobody complains about well behaved and well supervised kids in restaurants :blink:

I have to say that I have never witnessed unruly children at a "fine" dining restaurant in Sowal, but if I did, I think I would try to remember it's The Beach™, relax, ignore, and/or let the restaurant handle it. :D

tsutcli
03-10-2008, 11:45 PM
Sorry it just doesn't compare to Fire's brunch. I am slightly biased, but you really can't beat bottomless champagne.
Fire may be good but at what price and anyway I go for the food at a brunch not the alcohol. Also, can't compare views; Fire is tucked back out of the way nowhere near the beach while Santa Rosa B.C. is right on the beach with amazing views of beach and gulf - awsome on a bright Sunday morning!!!!

Tootsie
03-11-2008, 01:03 AM
I have to say that I have never witnessed unruly children at a "fine" dining restaurant in Sowal, but if I did, I think I would try to remember it's The Beach™, relax, ignore, and/or let the restaurant handle it. :D

its not a real problem, to my knowledge. but I guess there are families visiting who may not have a way to leave their children at "home" when they go out to eat. I'm sure it happens when a child or children misbehave in a fine dining restaurant here - and probably somewhat frequently in high season. you are right - relax. or go to Seagar's or Fleming's where you can almost bet there won't be children. :wave:

one reason I really like places like Borago is that you can bring the kids if you really want to include them for a special meal out. we typically do not dine here or other nicer restaurants with children. but on the rare occasion we will. bad behavior is never acceptable. but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened a time or two with our own.:blush:

usually its the adults that can exhibit some pretty rude behavior now and then. that is the kind of thing I can't stand during a really special evening out.

seaside2
03-11-2008, 07:20 AM
Thanks to everyone that suggested D&K's for this category. It's so hard to be everything to everyone....but we try. Sometimes you will see sequins and on that very same night group of tourists arrive in shorts, flaps and T-shirts. We are still evolving as each month passes......but we will always have wonderful food and plenty of art work to keep you talking.

God bless you all....I have missed you.

:wave::wub:Kat:welcome:

Kat, where you been gull??? Grayt to see you post again. Feeling ok?:D

beachmouse
03-15-2008, 06:59 PM
Can't remember if anyone's mentioned Gravel Road yet, but we had a very nice lunch there today. When the waitress apologies that they don't have grouper because it's out of season, and that they're subbing snapper for the same price, it's a good sign. (lot of other places woyld have gone for a cheaper substitution)

100BTG
04-18-2008, 11:59 AM
Has anyone heard of Fleming's Steakhouse? I hear they do a great job and are kind of the neighborhood steakhouse with lots of wine.

NancyEsq
04-18-2008, 12:04 PM
Has anyone heard of Fleming's Steakhouse? I hear they do a great job and are kind of the neighborhood steakhouse with lots of wine.


Fleming's is a chain. I suspect that you can do better with a place that is locally owned, though I confess I focus on fish when I am there so I can't recommend a particular place for steak.

Indigo Jill
04-18-2008, 12:28 PM
Has anyone heard of Fleming's Steakhouse? I hear they do a great job and are kind of the neighborhood steakhouse with lots of wine.

:welcome: 100BTG. I did a write up on Flemings - you can read it here (http://www.sowalscene.com/blog/2008/03/beach-eats-beat.html).

A die hard foodie that likes to support locally owned restaurants and who hasn't had many good experiences at big chain restaurants, my frame of mind before going to Flemings was skeptical. But I have to admit, it was excellent and not only will we be back, I recommend it. They have the magic formula down to a science for a big chain - excellent food, top notch ambiance, and the wait staff were the most professional I've encountered yet in SoWal (in my 7+ years here).