View Full Version : Geotube installation - Santa Rosa Beach
Just west of Gulf Highlands (behind Goatfeathers) access.
http://sowal.com/bb/gallery/files/1/DSCN4620.jpg
http://sowal.com/bb/gallery/files/1/DSCN4619.jpg
wetwilly
10-12-2005, 04:21 PM
OMG. I thought that these things have not been properly tested?? Is the county installing these?
OMG. I thought that these things have not been properly tested?? Is the county installing these?
Homeowners, not the County.
Will they scrape the beach to cover them - Haul in ugly sand to cover or leave them exposed to be covered by washed up sand? How does that work? Homeowners aren't allowed to scrape beaches are they? :confused:
aquaticbiology
10-13-2005, 09:27 AM
odd color - real geotube(TM) or chinese knock-off from wal-mart? and filled with what, I wonder?
and what's up with THE PUMP? :eek: reminds me of that story of the underground laboratory and the monster thay had to feed with something similar... :twisted: :creepy: happy halloween!
Will they scrape the beach to cover them - Haul in ugly sand to cover or leave them exposed to be covered by washed up sand? How does that work? Homeowners aren't allowed to scrape beaches are they? :confused:
Only the County is permitted to scrape. The tubes will be covered with sand trucked in. Although, if there is a scraping between now and then that would likely add some sand in front of the tubes.
I'm sure the plan is to build dunes over the tubes and then plant sea oats. I'm curious to see whether they try to stack tubes on top of each other.
Kimmifunn
10-13-2005, 09:35 AM
What's a geo tube? :idontno: Dumb question?
What's a geo tube? :idontno: Dumb question?
It's a big tube made of flexible material that is filled sith a sand/water slurry. The water is then forced out to leave a giant concrete-like sand slug, meant to protect property from storm-generated waves.
You can see the white one filled in the pic. They are about 4 feet high and 50 feet long when filled.
Only the County is permitted to scrape. The tubes will be covered with sand trucked in. Although, if there is a scraping between now and then that would likely add some sand in front of the tubes.
I'm sure the plan is to build dunes over the tubes and then plant sea oats. I'm curious to see whether they try to stack tubes on top of each other.
Any idea of the time frame it might take to get these things covered with sand? A week? Or weeks? I sure hope they find "white" sand!
Any idea of the time frame it might take to get these things covered with sand? A week? Or weeks? I sure hope they find "white" sand!
Not sure - as soon as they are "dry" they could have them covered in a day.
Dave Rauschkolb
10-13-2005, 12:16 PM
Coastal Erosion solutions: Seawalls, Geo-tubes, Beach Scraping and Beach Nourishment. What is the answer?
Basically, when the ocean rises due to a hurricane there are three powerful forces at work: wind, rising tide and ocean swells from a storm. The water that is moved by those forces moves in three directions. The tide brings the water up, the storm moves the wave action in and the wind pushes the water/waves in the direction of the wind.
Most of us who have experienced a hurricane know that when a storm approaches and we are on the east side of that storm we get winds from the northeast, then east, then southeast, then south and on around to the west and so on. The inverse would be true if we were on the west side of the storm. The key point is that for a large portion of the time the tide is abnormally high, the swells are abnormally big and the east or west current is scouring the beaches parallel to the beach.
The beach sand is a porous movable material that is completely vulnerable to these forces. Solid structures are also vulnerable to these forces but, more importantly the sand next to any solid structure will be scoured away much more rapidly than if there was no solid structure near it.
Let's dispense with scraping first. It makes the beach nicer to look at but that's it. It is newly pushed sand that has no level of impaction so it washes away in minutes. Placing sand back on the cliff/dunes and planting sea oats provides a favorable cosmetic solution.
Seawalls and geo-tubes are solid, heavy structures. Any porous sand next to these structures gets scoured away very rapidly making the situation worse near them. If you have a house next to a seawall, your backyard will go faster as the east riptide and oncoming waves collide with the seawall. The same is true with the beach in front of the seawall. The impact of the water hitting it and pushing sideways with the tide completely eliminates the beach in front of it. All you need to do is look at the wall in Galveston Texas; there used to be a beach there, now you just jump off the wall into the water; no beach. A geo tube is heavy and more solid than the sand. Any thing near these things will have sand scouring next to them too. Also when the water gets behind a seawall it washes away the sand behind it with the same impunity. Some of you might have seen the photo of the breached seawall on Dog Island I posted after Hurricane Dennis.
The largest seawall in the county is being installed just east of Seaside and it runs from the Wheel House/Seagrove villas and ends at the 30-A/395 intersection and could go further as adjacent homeowners buy on. It is roughly 20 feet high and runs 4 blocks long. Adjacent homeowners will be affected and the beach behind that wall will disappear if we get a few more storms to start the scouring activity. The prevailing winds here are from the east and the river of sand that runs along our beach could soon be interrupted and affected by this seawall.
The only solution to our erosion problem is to focus on getting our beaches nourished by pumping sand back on to the beaches. All of Walton County is being surveyed and the wheels are in motion. All these seawalls will do is destroy adjacent property and eliminate the beaches behind them. Geo-tubes will have a similar effect as the water washes over and around them.
Rosemary Beach has investigated thoroughly all options including geotubes and has decided to push for the sand dredging/beach nourishment option. There will be no geotubes or seawalls in Rosemary Beach. They did decide to do some cosmetic work (scraping) on the dunes/cliffs and finish with sea oat plantings. The town manager, James Bagby gave a very informed talk at the Rosemary Beach Homeowners meeting on where the county and federal agency's are in the beach nourishment process and it looks like it could happen countywide if approved. Jim said the pumping would take 3 days to do Rosemary Beach and would raise the beach 6 to 8 feet and go out 100 to 150 feet out. It would take 5 months to do the whole county.
The nourishment effort/process has taken its course in the west end of the county and they will soon begin pumping sand there. They are beginning the process for our part of the county from Inlet beach down and there will soon be a stage for public input. The whole beachfront of the county is being surveyed for this purpose and sand core samples are being taken in the gulf for sources of white sand. Funding will be an issue but if approved the beaches will be automatically nourished by the federal government after major storms. Panama City beach has been doing this for years already.
In Okaloosa County 5 beachfront homeowners disputed the nourishment project delaying it in lawsuits for 2 years. They were concerned that the thin strip of public access from the high tide waterline to the water would be enlarged if the beach was widened and people would set up beach chairs behind their property. I believe they are now being sued by adjacent owners who lost their homes in recent storms. When the time comes for public input our county voices must be united behind the nourishment answer. That’s the answer.
I'm sure the plan is to build dunes over the tubes and then plant sea oats. I'm curious to see whether they try to stack tubes on top of each other.
I spoke with one of the guys doing the installation and for this development they are going to stack a second tube on top of and aft of the first tube. Then the whole thing will be covered with trucked in white sand and sea oats will eventually be planted. The desired end result is basically a rebuilt dune with these tubes hidden underneath. The theory is that if a TS (not a hurricane) comes through, that the water will come against the new dune and perhaps wash away the sand in front of the tubes, but the tubes will stay put and stop the water from eating away at the sand at the base of the dune that is now behind the tubes.
When the time comes for public input our county voices must be united behind the nourishment answer. That’s the answer.
I whole heartedly agree. We all need to push to get renourishment to happen as soon as possible. Seawalls and geotubes are not the answer. If I owned beachfront property, I'd probably be tempted to put something in, because, hey, you have to feel as though you're doing something to protect your property, but in the long run, it's going to result in a very bad situation for our beaches.
Smiling JOe
10-13-2005, 12:33 PM
Dave,
Your post is very clear and well stated regarding the effects of constructing seawalls and installing geotubes.
I do realize that many Gulf-front homeowners have much at stake, and many people, like yourself are helping search for the best possible solutions, from which all owners could benefit. I am very distant from having a solution, even though I think about it often. The one answer to which I keep coming back, is to let Mother Nature have her way. We humans tend to think that we are the most important things around. I see all of this panic, and installation of seawalls and geotubes. Within a few months, man will change that which Mother Nature took thousands of years to create. It just blows my mind. To me, that which makes the beach what it is, is the constant change. Maybe we all need to be open to inviting change into our lives and moving in harmony with nature. My personal opinion is that the Gulf front homes should not be allowed to rebuild once they are destroyed, not at the expense of everyone else and the Earth.
Just my $.02
TooFarTampa
10-13-2005, 01:18 PM
Dave,
Your post is very clear and well stated regarding the effects of constructing seawalls and installing geotubes.
I do realize that many Gulf-front homeowners have much at stake, and many people, like yourself are helping search for the best possible solutions, from which all owners could benefit. I am very distant from having a solution, even though I think about it often. The one answer to which I keep coming back, is to let Mother Nature have her way. We humans tend to think that we are the most important things around. I see all of this panic, and installation of seawalls and geotubes. Within a few months, man will change that which Mother Nature took thousands of years to create. It just blows my mind. To me, that which makes the beach what it is, is the constant change. Maybe we all need to be open to inviting change into our lives and moving in harmony with nature. My personal opinion is that the Gulf front homes should not be allowed to rebuild once they are destroyed, not at the expense of everyone else and the Earth.
Just my $.02
SJ, very well said and I agree with you wholeheartedly ... in theory. But there is no one coming up with a sound and reasonable plan to help those whose land is being washed away. The value of course is in the land, not the house, and if the land is no longer buildable, what then happens to that asset? Who pays the bank that holds the mortgage? There is no insurance to cover this.
Though some might delight in watching "rich people get theirs," I doubt any of these people have money machines in their Atlanta basements (or wherever). Most would be subject to some degree of financial devastation. Bankruptcy even. This severe dune erosion was for the most part unforseen. Perhaps land planners or coastal experts might have forecasted it, but Joe and Jane Beachgoer who always wanted their own place by the sea would have not seen it coming. And the land planner is the one who let it happen. The Realtor, the mortgage lender, the developer, the home inspector, the surveyor would not have told them. (Maybe the surveyor might have but then he'd get run out of town.) It is not their fault. We blame the arrogance of the rich, but in this case it's more the ignorance of most of our society.
I think the seawalls are a very bad idea. Geotubes ... who knows, but probably not better. I think in 10 years we are going to be able to know what was smart and what wasn't, and it's imperative we try to do the smart thing. Dredging/renourishment seems like the best answer. I like what Dave has to say on that. Either dredge or find some way to start moving people back from the coastline without devastating them financially. I'm not sure that's even possible.
SHELLY
10-13-2005, 01:32 PM
Looking at all these beach photos all I can think of is, "Hang on to those old calendars with photos of the South Walton of "olden times," they're sure to become collector's items."
And to think we're only in the first inning of what forcasters are calling a 35-year cycle of disturbed tropical weather. (Attention Real Estate Investors: Cabins in the mountains may become the "new Black.")
Dave R. - As SJ said, your post was very clear, easy to understand, and is very informative. Thank you so much for posting. Educating on these points is very much needed. Decisions must be made and this kind of information needs to be considered when making those decisions.
Paula
10-14-2005, 07:41 AM
Dave:
I appreciated your post very much as well. It looks like we're going to see first-hand the consequences of each of these "fixes" when the next big storm hits the area. We'll be able to compare the consequences of geotubes, seawalls, beach renourishment (gets my vote so far) and nothing (would be next to get my vote).
1. If people put up geotubes and seawalls and as a consequence damage the property of the people next to them, can they be held liable? I live in a pretty wet area in Michigan, and if I did something to my property that funnelled water into my neighbor's basement or caused their back yard to become a big puddle at certain times of the year, could they make me stop? I would think so but I don't know. We have to get permission to put in a fence or do certain kinds of renovations on our homes (many kinds of renovations require a town meeting so that neighbors have a chance to express any concerns). I used to think this was a problem, but now I think it's a very good idea.
2. Do people have county permission to do what they're doing? If not, why are they able to do it?
3. Are any new codes going into place to prevent building so close to the edge of the dunes?
Smiling JOe
10-14-2005, 11:05 AM
...
1. If people put up geotubes and seawalls and as a consequence damage the property of the people next to them, can they be held liable? I live in a pretty wet area in Michigan, and if I did something to my property that funnelled water into my neighbor's basement or caused their back yard to become a big puddle at certain times of the year, could they make me stop? I would think so but I don't know.
I don't know about Michigan law, but here in FL, you would be liable for changing the lay of the land at the detriment to your neighbor. I think many people will have a good case with their neighboring seawall issues. Can you imagine trying to sell your Gulf Front home with a seawall lawsuit pending?
Paula
10-14-2005, 01:25 PM
I believe we do have to be considerate to our neighbors when making changes to our property. To save my stuff at the expense of your stuff shouldn't be allowed or rewarded.
WaterColor homeowners, check out this thread.
Miss Kitty
10-18-2005, 07:18 AM
WaterColor homeowners, check out this thread.
I have posted on this topic as a WC property owner on another thread. To see the changes in dune width since Opal and to look at just how much of the dune is left here after the latest storms is very concerning. I believe St. Joe has been a good steward of the land here by virtue of where they began the building of structures (even further back than the law demanded). Can we sit by and let Mother Nature do her thing? This tree hugger would love to think so...but as I hug trees and the rest of nature, reality keeps hitting me in the head. Yes, I grew up visiting Galveston...the seawall has changed the beach there...was there an alterantive way back when to preserve that area? Most visitors and homeowners in Galveston do not use that area as their destination (mostly hotel and other businesses line the seawall). Many of the beachfront homeowners have lost their property because of erosion elsewhere on the island. IMHO, the real answer is to NOT build ANYTHING near the shoreline. Too late for that...so what is the answer? I like dredging to reclaim the sand that used to be dunes and horizontal beach. To complete my early morning rambling here, I ask this question....Here in SoWal, with the diversity of communities and diversity of shoreline...is there ONE intelligent and thoughtful solution for all 26-28 miles of shoreline? I welcome this continuing debate, Knowledge is Power, but how much time do we have for thoughtful discussion before the next storm hits. Thank you for reading this stream...help me help the beach.
aquaticbiology
10-18-2005, 11:05 AM
see the unesco thing (http://www.unesco.org/csi/pub/source/ero8.htm) for the complete list of available fixes of the current situation and how they each will eventually affect the beach and dune system
http://www.unesco.org/csi/pub/source/ero17.gif
the current situation will not last long and those houses and condos that are perched right on the edge now will soon be gone as the dune slumps back from the vertical (I had not known about this effect - it seems that sand cannot hold a vertical slope and will head for 40-60 slope eventually, even shored up with packed sand and a seawall) - you would have to put the dune edge all the way back to the original pre-hurricane position to save any structures on top of the dune
http://www.unesco.org/csi/pub/source/ero20.gif
beach renourishment is the only real way to protect the dunes
Thanks for the info and link AB.
seagrovelover
10-18-2005, 12:52 PM
Dave,
Your post is very clear and well stated regarding the effects of constructing seawalls and installing geotubes.
I do realize that many Gulf-front homeowners have much at stake, and many people, like yourself are helping search for the best possible solutions, from which all owners could benefit. I am very distant from having a solution, even though I think about it often. The one answer to which I keep coming back, is to let Mother Nature have her way. We humans tend to think that we are the most important things around. I see all of this panic, and installation of seawalls and geotubes. Within a few months, man will change that which Mother Nature took thousands of years to create. It just blows my mind. To me, that which makes the beach what it is, is the constant change. Maybe we all need to be open to inviting change into our lives and moving in harmony with nature. My personal opinion is that the Gulf front homes should not be allowed to rebuild once they are destroyed, not at the expense of everyone else and the Earth.
Just my $.02
JOE...thats the smartest thing I have read all day, mother nature will take away but she will also provide in the long run......you my friend have got it!!! :clap_1:
TreeFrog
10-18-2005, 01:16 PM
SJ's view pretty much parallels mine, but I fear that the human condition dictates we will probably permanently screw things up before we try, too late, to do something which still only approximates the right thing. To wit - New Orleans, petroleum consumption and production. Seems that common sense remains a scarce commodity.
<Rant mode off, it's still a beautiful day>
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