More good climate news

[30A Skunkape]

A twelve-month long drop in world temperatures erases global warming

http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature+Monitors+Report+Worldwide+Global+Cooli ng/article10866.htm


Gilles Langis, a senior forecaster with the Canadian Ice Service in Ottawa, says the Arctic winter has been so severe the ice has not only recovered, it is actually 10 to 20 cm thicker in many places than at this time last year.

http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/story.html?id=332289

Well, maybe not such good news in some circles:roll:

[NotDeadYet]

This is not necessarily good news, you are right about that. Remember, it is climate change.
Check this out. This article goes back to 2003 but the idea that global warming could trigger a new ice age is still kicking around out there.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2003/nov/13/comment.research

[30A Skunkape]

This is not necessarily good news, you are right about that. Remember, it is climate change.
Check this out. This article goes back to 2003 but the idea that global warming could trigger a new ice age is still kicking around out there.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2003/nov/13/comment.research

OK, I will grant you point, set and match if global warming will result in a new ice age. Sheesh.

[singinchicken]

Of course, as soon as the report hit it contained the caveat that colder weather is actually more harmfull than warm weather. I guess Owl Gore will take credit for the temperature decline and will, now, start a campaign to warm things back up! LOL!

Geez Louise...

[full time]

Global warming is responsible for all that ills the planet ..... even global cooling. So please purchase those carbon credits before you heat your frozen house in the northeast or midwest ..... or kindly move to sunny Florida, buy our modest homes and condos that do not require burning so much natural gas to remain cozy and do your part to save the planet. Brrrrrrrrr.

[wrobert]

Global warming is responsible for all that ills the planet ..... even global cooling. So please purchase those carbon credits before you heat your frozen house in the northeast or midwest ..... or kindly move to sunny Florida, buy our modest homes and condos that do not require burning so much natural gas to remain cozy and do your part to save the planet. Brrrrrrrrr.

Don't forget you will have more money with our new low tax rates.

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

This is not necessarily good news, you are right about that. Remember, it is climate change.
Check this out. This article goes back to 2003 but the idea that global warming could trigger a new ice age is still kicking around out there.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2003/nov/13/comment.research
Thanks for the link. It was totally on parallel with a National Geographic show I recently saw and the effects temperature change can have on the gulf stream.

The biggest problem I had with the article was this quote:
"Yet again, this highlights the fact that global warming, for which we have only ourselves to thank, is nothing more nor less than a great planetary experiment, many of the outcomes of which we cannot predict."


Then today on NPR I hear that sunspot activity has a much larger influence on the earth's temperature (global warming & cooling) than the traditional belief of greenhouse gases.


I don't for a second believe that "we have only ourselves to thank".
So I think this statement takes away some credibility from the rest of the article.

Just when I was starting to nibble on Al Gore's premise.

:confused:

Oh yea, I probably wouldn't be confused if he hadn't invented the internet. :biggrin:


.

[sowalgayboi]

Global warming is responsible for all that ills the planet ..... even global cooling. So please purchase those carbon credits before you heat your frozen house in the northeast or midwest ..... or kindly move to sunny Florida, buy our modest homes and condos that do not require burning so much natural gas to remain cozy and do your part to save the planet. Brrrrrrrrr.

It's a good thing those air conditioners run on good thoughts. :roll:

[30A Skunkape]

Thanks for the link. It was totally on parallel with a National Geographic show I recently saw and the effects temperature change can have on the gulf stream.

The biggest problem I had with the article was this quote:
"Yet again, this highlights the fact that global warming, for which we have only ourselves to thank, is nothing more nor less than a great planetary experiment, many of the outcomes of which we cannot predict."


Then today on NPR I hear that sunspot activity has a much larger influence on the earth's temperature (global warming & cooling) than the traditional belief of greenhouse gases.


I don't for a second believe that "we have only ourselves to thank".
So I think this statement takes away some credibility from the rest of the article.

Just when I was starting to nibble on Al Gore's premise.

:confused:

Oh yea, I probably wouldn't be confused if he hadn't invented the internet. :biggrin:


.

Today!? If they had been looking at SOWAL.COM last year they would have seen a certain member had posted this:

Look to Mars for the truth on global warming
The Deniers -- Part IX

Lawrence Solomon
Financial Post


January 26, 2007

Climate change is a much, much bigger issue than the public, politicians, and even the most alarmed environmentalists realize. Global warming extends to Mars, where the polar ice cap is shrinking, where deep gullies in the landscape are now laid bare, and where the climate is the warmest it has been in decades or centuries.

"One explanation could be that Mars is just coming out of an ice age," NASA scientist William Feldman speculated after the agency's Mars Odyssey completed its first Martian year of data collection. "In some low-latitude areas, the ice has already dissipated." With each passing year more and more evidence arises of the dramatic changes occurring on the only planet on the solar system, apart from Earth, to give up its climate secrets.


NASA's findings in space come as no surprise to Dr. Habibullo Abdussamatov at Saint Petersburg's Pulkovo Astronomical Observatory. Pulkovo -- at the pinnacle of Russia's space-oriented scientific establishment -- is one of the world's best equipped observatories and has been since its founding in 1839. Heading Pulkovo's space research laboratory is Dr. Abdussamatov, one of the world's chief critics of the theory that man-made carbon dioxide emissions create a greenhouse effect, leading to global warming.

"Mars has global warming, but without a greenhouse and without the participation of Martians," he told me. "These parallel global warmings -- observed simultaneously on Mars and on Earth -- can only be a straightline consequence of the effect of the one same factor: a long-time change in solar irradiance."

The sun's increased irradiance over the last century, not C02 emissions, is responsible for the global warming we're seeing, says the celebrated scientist, and this solar irradiance also explains the great volume of C02 emissions.

"It is no secret that increased solar irradiance warms Earth's oceans, which then triggers the emission of large amounts of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. So the common view that man's industrial activity is a deciding factor in global warming has emerged from a misinterpretation of cause and effect relations."

Dr. Abdussamatov goes further, debunking the very notion of a greenhouse effect. "Ascribing 'greenhouse' effect properties to the Earth's atmosphere is not scientifically substantiated," he maintains. "Heated greenhouse gases, which become lighter as a result of expansion, ascend to the atmosphere only to give the absorbed heat away."

The real news from Saint Petersburg -- demonstrated by cooling that is occurring on the upper layers of the world's oceans -- is that Earth has hit its temperature ceiling. Solar irradiance has begun to fall, ushering in a protracted cooling period beginning in 2012 to 2015. The depth of the decline in solar irradiance reaching Earth will occur around 2040, and "will inevitably lead to a deep freeze around 2055-60" lasting some 50 years, after which temperatures will go up again.

Because of the scientific significance of this period of global cooling that we're about to enter, the Russian and Ukrainian space agencies, under Dr. Abdussamatov's leadership, have launched a joint project to determine the time and extent of the global cooling at mid-century. The project, dubbed Astrometry and given priority space-experiment status on the Russian portion of the International Space Station, will marshal the resources of spacecraft manufacturer Energia, several Russian research and production centers, and the main observatory of Ukraine's Academy of Sciences. By late next year, scientific equipment will have been installed in a space-station module and by early 2009, Dr. Abdussamatov's space team will be conducting a regular survey of the sun.

With the data, the project will help mankind cope with a century of falling temperatures, during which we will enter a mini ice age.

"There is no need for the Kyoto Protocol now. It does not have to come into force until at least 100 years from no w," Dr. Abdussamatov concluded. "A global freeze will come about regardless of whether or not industrialized countries put a cap on their greenhouse- gas emissions."

Lawrence Solomon@nextcity.com

- - -

- Lawrence Solomon is executive director of Urban Renaissance Institute and Consumer Policy Institute, divisions of Energy Probe Research Foundation. www.Urban-Renaissance.org

CV OF A DENIER:

Habibullo Abdussamatov, born in Samarkand in Uzbekistan in 1940, graduated from Samarkand University in 1962 as a physicist and a mathematician. He earned his doctorate at Pulkovo Observatory and the University of Leningrad.

He is the head of the space research laboratory of the Russian Academies of Sciences' Pulkovo Observatory and of the International Space Station's Astrometry project, a long-term joint scientific research project of the Russian and Ukranian space agencies.

[John R]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23367934/

updated 8:26 a.m. CT, Wed., Feb. 27, 2008

ANCHORAGE, Alaska - A tiny Alaska village eroding into the Arctic Ocean sued two dozen oil, power and coal companies, claiming that the large amounts of greenhouse gases they emit contribute to global warming that threatens the community's existence.

The city of Kivalina and a federally recognized tribe, the Alaska Native village of Kivalina, sued Exxon Mobil Corp. and BP PLC, seven other oil companies, 14 power companies and one coal company in a lawsuit filed Tuesday in federal court in San Francisco.

Kivalina is a traditional Inupiat Eskimo village of about 390 people about 625 miles northwest of Anchorage. It is built on an 8-mile barrier reef between the Chukchi Sea and Kivalina River.
Story continues below ↓advertisement

Sea ice traditionally protected the community, whose economy is based in part on salmon fishing plus subsistence hunting of whale, seal, walrus, and caribou. But sea ice that forms later and melts sooner because of higher temperatures has left the community unprotected from fall and winter storm waves and surges that lash coastal communities.

"We are seeing accelerated erosion because of the loss of sea ice," City Administrator Janet Mitchell said in a statement. "We normally have ice starting in October, but now we have open water even into December so our island is not protected from the storms."

Relocation costs have been estimated at $400 million or more.

A spokesman for Exxon Mobil, Gantt Walton, said the company was reviewing the lawsuit and had no immediate comment on it.

Steve Rinehart, a spokesman for BP in Alaska, said he had not seen the lawsuit and had no comment.

Documented damage?
The lawsuit was filed on behalf of Kivalina by two nonprofit legal organizations — The Center on Race, Poverty & the Environment and the Native American Rights Fund — plus six law firms.

Reached by phone in Boston, attorney Matt Pawa said other lawsuits have been filed seeking damages from global warming, but this is the first one that has a "discretely identifiable victim."

Damage to Kivalina from global warming has been documented in official government reports by the Army Corps of Engineers and the General Accounting Office, Pawa said.

The lawsuit invokes the federal common law of public nuisance, and every entity that contributes to the pollution problem harming Kivalina is liable, Pawa said. "You can sue them one at a time or some subset of them," he said.

The lawsuit also accuses some of the defendants of a conspiracy to mislead the public regarding the causes and consequences of global warming. The suit was filed in California because that's where many of the defendants are located or do business, Pawa said.

Without commenting on the lawsuit, Exxon Mobil's Walton said the company takes the issue of climate change seriously.

"Exxon Mobil is taking action by reducing greenhouse gas emissions in our operations, supporting research into technology breakthroughs and participating in constructive dialogues on policy options with NGOs, industry and policy makers," he said.

The other oil companies named were BP PLC, BP American Inc., BP Products North America Inc., Chevron Corp., Chevron USA Inc., ConocoPhillips, Royal Dutch Shell PLC and Shell Oil Co.

Also named were Peabody Energy Corp., a major coal producer, and power companies AES Corp., American Electric Power Co., American Electric Power Services Corp., DTE Energy Co., Duke Energy Corp., Dynegy Holdings Inc., Edison International, MidAmerican Energy Holdings Co., Mirant Corp., NRG Energy Inc., Pinnacle West Capital Corp., Reliant Energy Inc., The Southern Co. and Xcel Energy Inc.

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

From above:
"But sea ice that forms later and melts sooner because of higher temperatures has left the community unprotected from fall and winter storm waves and surges that lash coastal communities."

Hey, I know the name of great seawall contractor. :rolling:

Maybe we could join in the lawsuit here on the gulf and use the money to buy out some of the private beaches.:confused:

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

Hey Skunky...how in the hell did our greenhouse gases get to Mars? I knew that NASA was up to something!!:funn:

[John R]

should we look forward to an impending lawsuit from you when the public is 'at the beach' in what was once your living room?

[full time]

I thought the oyster fishermen in Louisiana were hucksters but they got nothing on the tribe in Alaska. A million bucks for every tribe member .... cool, I think our real estate problems have been solved. Less hurricanes and a million bucks - two very good reasons to be all for global warming. Someone bring me a fan .......... when it warms up.

[30A Skunkape]

Hey Skunky...how in the hell did our greenhouse gases get to Mars? I knew that NASA was up to something!!:funn:

When in doubt just blame a Bush, any Bush:biggrin:

[Bob]

When in doubt just blame a Bush, any Bush:biggrin:which one? Jebby...Nealie.....or Dumbie???

[hnooe]

When in doubt just blame a Bush, any Bush:biggrin:

Actually, as far as the blame game goes, I prefer to start with my cable company, then my mother, and then thirdly GW in that strict order!:D

[30A Skunkape]

which one? Jebby...Nealie.....or Dumbie???

That about covers it except for Speedy Bush

[30A Skunkape]

A great many founts of authority, from the Royal Society to the UN, most heads of government along with countless captains of industry, learned professors, commentators and journalists will be profoundly embarrassed. Let us hope it is a prolonged and chastening experience.:clap:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23411799-7583,00.html

[John R]

i hope they're right. if so, there's no backup as to why are our glaciers still receding.

http://www.earth-policy.org/Updates/2008/Update71.htm

Melting Mountain Glaciers Will Shrink Grain Harvests in China and India

Lester R. Brown

The world is now facing a climate-driven shrinkage of river-based irrigation water supplies. Mountain glaciers in the Himalayas and on the Tibet-Qinghai Plateau are melting and could soon deprive the major rivers of India and China of the ice melt needed to sustain them during the dry season. In the Ganges, the Yellow, and the Yangtze river basins, where irrigated agriculture depends heavily on rivers, this loss of dry-season flow will shrink harvests.

The world has never faced such a predictably massive threat to food production as that posed by the melting mountain glaciers of Asia. China and India are the world’s leading producers of both wheat and rice—humanity’s food staples. China’s wheat harvest is nearly double that of the United States, which ranks third after India. With rice, these two countries are far and away the leading producers, together accounting for over half of the world harvest.

[30A Skunkape]

I have a feeling the crops will be just fine!

[John R]

I have a feeling the crops will be just fine!

we probably won't see, but let's hope so.

[30A Skunkape]

we probably won't see, but let's hope so.

If the glaciers melt and the seas rise Kelp will be the new wheat. :biggrin:

[Andy A.]

Of course, as soon as the report hit it contained the caveat that colder weather is actually more harmfull than warm weather. I guess Owl Gore will take credit for the temperature decline and will, now, start a campaign to warm things back up! LOL!

Geez Louise...
And probably win another Peace Prize, to boot!

[ASH]

And then this hits the news today: :idontno:

WASHINGTON (AP) -- A chunk of Antarctic ice about seven times the size of Manhattan suddenly collapsed, putting an even greater portion of glacial ice at risk, scientists said Tuesday.
http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/TECH/science/03/25/antartica.collapse.ap/art.wilkins.collapse.jpg Scientists flocked to take pictures and shoot video after a massive chunk of the Wilkins ice shelf collapsed in Antarctica.



http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/.element/img/2.0/content/in_the_news/left_gray_btn.gif (http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science/03/25/antartica.collapse.ap/index.html#)
1 of 2
http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/img/2.0/global/pic_changer/next.gif (http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science/03/25/antartica.collapse.ap/index.html#)

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/base_skins/baseplate/corner_wire_BL.gif



Satellite images show the runaway disintegration of a 160-square-mile chunk in western Antarctica, which started February 28. It was the edge of the Wilkins ice shelf and has been there for hundreds, maybe 1,500 years.
This is the result of global warming, said British Antarctic Survey scientist David Vaughan.

[30A Skunkape]

I wonder if an ice sheet has ever collapsed before...

[30A Skunkape]

bump:biggrin:
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/cag3/na.html

[hnooe]

Fine. Could you please forward this entire thread to Al Gore so he can redo his Power Point presentation, return his Nobel Prize, and issue a public apology to the World.

[30A Skunkape]

Fine. Could you please forward this entire thread to Al Gore so he can redo his Power Point presentation, return his Nobel Prize, and issue a public apology to the World.

I suspect he is probably burning jet fuel at 30,000 feet right now, so not too sure he will get it right away, but good idea:wave:

[Andy A.]

In l950 when I attended the U.S. Air Force weather school at Chanute AFB, Ill., we had a Climatology class in the curriculum. If we were told once, we were told 20 times that climate change on our planet is cyclic in nature and has been as long as meteorology records have been kept. Everything I saw while traversing this earth at 20,000 ft. and below leads me to believe this was a correct assumption. Al Gore managed to successfully dupe the American public and the rest of the world, and for it he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. Nobel must be revolving in his grave! Regardless, there is enough doubt regarding greenhouse gases causing global warning to cause creditable people to give cause for thought about the theory.

[traderx]

Symptoms of global warming have been cast as increased global temperatures as well as global cooling, increased hurricane/typhoon activity and of course, the bout of recent tornadoes. When one side is permitted to define all the variables, there is no chance of losing the debate.

Meanwhile, a group of prominent Russian climatologists, who believe that our climate is cyclical, predict a thirty five year period of fairly severe global cooling will begin in 2012. I am doing my part to help heat the Earth back up. I have saved my single ply windows, my old inefficient HVAC system and old cans of hair spray which heretofore could have brought the world to an early end.:D

The real problem with global warming is that it takes our eyes off real environmental problems such as groundwater contamination. Vinyl choride in groundwater is a real issue but such problems have been subordinated to the global warming scare.

[30A Skunkape]

I am getting warmer by the minute:roll:

[Smiling JOe]

Hey, maybe the ice caps got colder when the gas prices shot sky high, making people drive less, thereby reducing CO2 build up from the projected targets.

[ASH]

:popcorn: This conversation could go on until hell freezes over. :biggrin:

And don't worry. I didn't pop the popcorn in the air machine thereby contributing to the whole global warming thing. I used the exhaust gas from the deneuralizer I keep in the basement next to the snowblower. I bought both from Jeebs after he zapped Tommy Lee Jones.

[30A Skunkape]

Another example of the 'Gore effect':floor:

Snow fell as the House of Commons debated Global Warming yesterday - the first October fall in the metropolis since 1922.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/29/commons_climate_change_bill/

[TooFarTampa]

Another example of the 'Gore effect':floor:

Snow fell as the House of Commons debated Global Warming yesterday - the first October fall in the metropolis since 1922.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/29/commons_climate_change_bill/

Saw that and thought of you :lol:

[30A Skunkape]

Saw that and thought of you :lol:

I am sure it is because all those melting icebergs are inverting the Gulf stream, or some such poppycock.:funn:

[singinchicken]

All of this in today's news:
First October snow since 1922 blankets London as global warming bill debated... (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/29/commons_climate_change_bill/)
Switzerland sees most snow for October since records began... (http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/news/travel/Record_snow_storm_triggers_delays.html?siteSect=41 4&sid=9908046&cKey=1225359314000&ty=nd)
Florida breaks 150 year record... (http://www.ocala.com/article/20081030/NEWS/810301012/1001/NEWS01?Title=Record_cold_swept_over_the_region_Wed nesday)
MIT scientists baffled by global warming theory, contradicts scientific data... (http://www.tgdaily.com/html_tmp/content-view-39973-113.html)

Darn global warming!

[30A Skunkape]

And more...
2008 Atlantic Hurricane Season Withers on the Vine

http://www.coaps.fsu.edu/~maue/tropical/

[30A Skunkape]

And more...
The World Has Never Seen Such Freezing Heat
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/11/16/do1610.xml

[DuneLaker]

I just want to know how cold it is going to get tonight in SoWal.

[singinchicken]

Ask Al Gore! :funn: