How much should Teachers be paid?

[wrobert]

Every year and it seems every election cycle I constantly hear that teachers are not paid enough. I have spoken to school board members and they all seem to be in agreement that teacher salaries are too low. Yet I have been unable to find anyone that can tell me what a teacher should be paid. Without knowing this, I do not see how we can come up with a plan to accomplish the goal of paying teachers enough. Anyone have any thoughts?

[hnooe]

Every year and it seems every election cycle I constantly hear that teachers are not paid enough. I have spoken to school board members and they all seem to be in agreement that teacher salaries are too low. Yet I have been unable to find anyone that can tell me what a teacher should be paid. Without knowing this, I do not see how we can come up with a plan to accomplish the goal of paying teachers enough. Anyone have any thoughts?

I wished people paid enough attention to the education of children as they do to proffessional athletics...maybe then, the very well paid athletes could exist on millions of dollars less salary, and the teached pay could increase hundreds of dollars more. :idontno:

[wrobert]

I wished people paid enough attention to the education of children as they do to proffessional athletics...maybe then, the very well paid athletes could exist on millions of dollars less salary, and the teached pay could increase hundreds of dollars more. :idontno:

So true. Amazing to me that teachers are suppose to prepare children to make a good wage in their future, yet no one seems to want to pay teachers a good wage to start with.

[Tootsie]

I don't know, but I think Obama intends to find out if he gets the chance. Not only does public education need to be revamped from the bottom up, but teacher education programs at Universities and Colleges need a serious boost as well, IMO. We should expect as much out of our teachers as far as ability to teach, as we do from nurses, physicians, engineers, physical therapists, lawyers, etc, in their ability to perform their services.

It is a professional level field. But has never really been treated as such by govt, the public nor by some (not all) parents (who sometimes believe the teacher is a second class citizen).

If we expect and demand our teachers to operate on a professional educator level, then they will truly be able to demand the salary they so deserve. (I'm not saying that teachers don't deserve a greater salary now). I'm saying that in order to be paid as professionals, they will need to raise their own education standards to that of a professional (some teachers have done so on their own / some are born teachers with amazing talent). and just because the school year is only 9 months, why does this mean the Professional Teacher only works 9 months? It makes me feel that many teachers are in it for the convenient work schedule. teachers have been treated in such a way that they have become clock watchers. not professionals. (again, this does not speak to all teachers... ). Our own expectations of teachers is not what it needs to be, if you think about what a professional educator's job ought to entail, in the ideal world. they are not babysitters. they should not have more paperwork to prepare than lesson plans. they should serve as consultants to parents, not their servants. they are much more than test monitors. much of the motivation for learning, knowledge and wisdom they impart can never be measured.

Sorry, but I've known some teachers that I wonder how they became teachers. I've also known some great teachers who have moved on to other careers because they are talented enough to earn much better in those other careers.

We cannot expect to attract and retain the best of the best. salary is really very important to quality education in the long run. But, how to determine and justify the right salary level? It is going to take a lot more than a discussion on money. It's going to take fundamental changes to the profession as a whole.

at this point, if all you want to do is to be competitive with other cities/counties, you must do the survey work to determine how our salaries compare. that's about it. sad, but that's all there is.

[Minnie]

I taught school for 10 years and would have gladly worked year round if I had gotten paid. As it was I worked 10 months and got laid off for 2 without pay.

Also I would have gladly taken an per hour wage, as I worked 60 hours per week at school and at home.

In addition to increase pay I think all schools need to be run similar to a business. No other professional is expected to the perform the service they are trained for and be the secretary too.

I loved working with the kids I taught, I hated the hours and hours of paper work that the government required me to do. It finally got so bad I either had to take away from time spent with the kids to get it done or spend 4-5 hours daily after school getting it done, during my family time.

I gave it up. :(

[Allifunn]

It has always astounded me how this country pays professional athletes millions of dollars, yet pay a pennance to the people that are teaching the future of our country...it just does not make sense to me. I have always thought the education system is totally fd up.
And actors...don't even get me started....:bang:

[John R]

we should pay educators as much as we can. we entrust our children to them, yet pay the babysitter a higher hourly wage

[rapunzel]

I taught. I lasted for four months.

I did a long term substitute for a teacher who went on maternity leave. It was the hardest job I ever had -- physically, mentally, emotionally. I was always exhausted. It required more from me than jobs that paid three times as much.

I think an excellent way of figuring out how much is enough to pay them would be to work backwards. What sort of standard of living would you want for them to have in return for educating our children? How much would it cost for them to live that sort of lifestyle?

What really hit me about this area is that we are paying teachers so little that they can't afford to be part of the community where they teach, and that is a fundamental problem that must be addressed. Teachers are professionals and should be respected members of the community, not day labor.

[scooterbug44]

It was pretty easy to see why we are lacking teachers in this country during the last semester of college. People going into the business world had signing bonus 10K more than a fellow student's starting salary!

IMO teachers should make $50K a year w/ additional pay for extracurriculars/coaching based on the time required for those activities.

Also think they should have their student loans deferred if they go into teaching and then paid for by the government/grants after 10 years of full-time teaching. I know a lot of people who would like to be teachers but couldn't swing it financially.

[iwishiwasthere]

I taught. I lasted for four months.

I did a long term substitute for a teacher who went on maternity leave. It was the hardest job I ever had -- physically, mentally, emotionally. I was always exhausted. It required more from me than jobs that paid three times as much.

I think an excellent way of figuring out how much is enough to pay them would be to work backwards. What sort of standard of living would you want for them to have in return for educating our children? How much would it cost for them to live that sort of lifestyle?

What really hit me about this area is that we are paying teachers so little that they can't afford to be part of the community where they teach, and that is a fundamental problem that must be addressed. Teachers are professionals and should be respected members of the community, not day labor.

Good comments. If I moved to Okaloosa County, I would get about a $18,000 year raise.:blink: It may happen one day in the future, but not for the money. You are so right about the difficulty. Everyone knows what a teacher should be doing and how to do it, expecially the lawmakers who create laws that are ridiculous.When it comes to long days, you can work all day, after school, and weekends. It just depends how much of your family you are willing to sacrifice.


As for a 9 month contract, I would love to have 3 months off. I have to attend 10 days of professional inservice and spend 4-5 days preparing to get my room ready for the new school year. In addition, I teach 2 different summer schools. Both provide me with different teaching opportunites than I have during the regular year. I also serve on committees that require me to attend meetings during the summer. My real vacation is the 9 days I spend in SoWal in August.:D

However, I knew all of this when I took the job. To complain about it for me is moot point. I love what I do and when I do not enjoy it anymore, I will move on to another career.

[wrobert]

Good comments. If I moved to Okaloosa County, I would get about a $18,000 year raise.:blink:


Are you teaching somewhere in Florida now?

[iwishiwasthere]

Are you teaching somewhere in Florida now?


I wish!!!! Thus my screen name:biggrin: I live in Tennessee. It amazes me at the pay variations in different areas. I can drive 30 miles and make $8,000 more a year.

[Tootsie]

when I say the education system needs an overhaul from the bottom up, I mean educators need to be allowed to plan and teach, first and foremost, instead of doing endless paperwork (I won't even get into the testing here). of course professionals do work overtime quite often without extra pay. they are not hourly employees. this is part of the deal. but it needs to be within reason, and not a daily requirement to work late after a full day of teaching. I think teachers need a full year salary. summer time should be used for planning and preparing for the coming year, meeting with educators, parents, training, etc. setting up information systems to help manage your paperwork,etc. some secretarial assistance would be marvelous. and teaching assistants, and/or interns, of course.

some private schools are able to provide some or all of the above and more. their pay isn't necessarily any better, but their conditions are. some teachers, given support and resources, are able to leave at 3:00, and have a normal life. with some long days, and weekends here and there. and of course, working pretty much full time through the summer to keep up with their preparations.

I don't like to compare teacher salaries to doctors and athletes or actors. completely different job. private sector v. public sector. completely different requirements, education, experience and risks. I wouldn't take away what those career individuals have achieved - it's just what it is. Education is a wonderful endeavor - and you must really want to do it day in and day out. I've seen it work so well for highly organized teachers who stay proactive, and have teaching assistants and interns.

I too taught & directed for several years at a university funded program for special education students. full time/year round. lots of assistants, a secretary and lots of IEP's and state requirements! it was a great and wonderful time of my life - and very very demanding but in a good way. I gained so much. and I found a really good paying job after. outside of education. still taught some at junior colleges on the side, and used teaching/planning/directing skills in many other ways.

Teachers are some of the most important people helping to shape all of our lives. I am all for paying teachers $50K and up, depending on experience, educational level and effectiveness in the classroom. A teacher who is "all that" should make at least $80K, IMO. In an ideal world, this is what a professional educator would make. The best of men and women would work in the field full time - it is certainly a full time career - why wouldn't one be paid as such?

[wrobert]

I wish!!!! Thus my screen name:biggrin: I live in Tennessee. It amazes me at the pay variations in different areas. I can drive 30 miles and make $8,000 more a year.

Sometimes it is that way here. The bottom and the top are about equal, but the time to get from one to the other is different. So people can leave and drive to adjoining counties and get large raises. But lately it has been going back the other way. Walton County is paying quite a bit better these last four years. But it still is a paltry amount when you look what other salaries have done and you consider the education and training required.

I am just trying to see where we should be setting our goals. At least with a goal, progress and accomplishments can be measured. As it is we just try to keep paying more every year.

[florida girl]

As far as comparing athlete’s salaries to teacher’s salaries, athletes bring in much more money for those betting on the game, and thus are "valued" more. That's where their priorities lie. I think the teacher tenure should be reevaluated, many on tenure are openly ridiculous in their teaching behavior, and it is almost impossible to get rid of them, unless they commit a felony. Even then, I think they put them in some kind of office position! SoWal has grown by leaps and bounds and has hired many new teachers, although I don’t think all are really cut out for it.

[iwishiwasthere]

I am just trying to see where we should be setting our goals. At least with a goal, progress and accomplishments can be measured. As it is we just try to keep paying more every year.[/QUOTE]

It seems that Walton County has a good group of concerned citizens, and this board provides one way to get feedback. Nice question.

As far as comparing athlete’s salaries to teacher’s salaries, athletes bring in much more money for those betting on the game, and thus are "valued" more. That's where their priorities lie. I think the teacher tenure should be reevaluated, many on tenure are openly ridiculous in their teaching behavior, and it is almost impossible to get rid of them, unless they commit a felony. Even then, I think they put them in some kind of office position! SoWal has grown by leaps and bounds and has hired many new teachers, although I don’t think all are really cut out for it.


Tenure certainly has its drawbacks. Often teachers become apathetic or discontented. Those seem to be the ones that need the benefit of a tenure restructuring. I see way too many teachers that need to change occupations.

[Tootsie]

I am just trying to see where we should be setting our goals. At least with a goal, progress and accomplishments can be measured. As it is we just try to keep paying more every year.

It seems that Walton County has a good group of concerned citizens, and this board provides one way to get feedback. Nice question.




Tenure certainly has its drawbacks. Often teachers become apathetic or discontented. Those seem to be the ones that need the benefit of a tenure restructuring. I see way too many teachers that need to change occupations.[/quote]

burn out tends to be pretty high in teaching, it seems. :wave: how long have you taught iwiwt?

[jdarg]

As far as comparing athlete’s salaries to teacher’s salaries, athletes bring in much more money for those betting on the game, and thus are "valued" more. That's where their priorities lie. I think the teacher tenure should be reevaluated, many on tenure are openly ridiculous in their teaching behavior, and it is almost impossible to get rid of them, unless they commit a felony. Even then, I think they put them in some kind of office position! SoWal has grown by leaps and bounds and has hired many new teachers, although I don’t think all are really cut out for it.


Why?

[Allifunn]

I don't like to compare teacher salaries to doctors and athletes or actors. completely different job. private sector v. public sector. completely different requirements, education, experience and risks. I wouldn't take away what those career individuals have achieved - it's just what it is. Education is a wonderful endeavor - and you must really want to do it day in and day out. I've seen it work so well for highly organized teachers who stay proactive, and have teaching assistants and interns.




I am not trying to compare salaries, I am simply pointing out that most Americans would rather pay 35$ a seat to go to a professional game and watch people beat eachother up, than pay teachers a decent salary, the ones who are educating the future of this country. Priorities are totally screwed up. We would rather allow our kids to mindlessly watch actors on the screen that are so screwed up that they can't even form intelligent sentences unless they are reading a script.
Role models.....we are expecting educators to be role models for our kids, but most kids have no respect for their teachers, their role models are actors and sports figures that, in most cases, not all, are uneducated themselves.
How about donating that 35$ to education? I know that we pay education taxes...and we really think that is enough?
I think Punzy has some good comments...having been there first hand.
I did my student teaching many years ago, and became a substitute teacher. There is no way I could have put up with what teachers are required to do. I commend all teachers, they are a very special breed
Please keep in mind that I am speaking of SC schools. I think it is sad when I hear my teens talk about some of their teachers...so many kids have lost respect for the school system, and I do believe that much of this is due to the fact that the school system itself does not allow teachers the respect that they are due. (ie...salaries that compensate them fairly)

[wrobert]

Can we define decent salary? The only number I remember seeing so far is $50K, which with benefits and the work schedule is a good place to start.

[Allifunn]

Can we define decent salary? The only number I remember seeing so far is $50K, which with benefits and the work schedule is a good place to start.
Quite so

[Cheering472]

My daughter teaches first grade in an innercity project school. She is at school by 7:30 and leaves between 4:30 - 5:00. Once home she has an additional hour or two of grading papers, talking to parents on the phone etc. She has to spend her own money for her students school supplies each year or they won't have anything to write on or write with. She paid for coats for each student because they didn't have any and as it got colder they showed up freezing and wet. She has professional development/continuing education days each summer. This year they total almost 3 weeks. She stays in contact with each child through the summer, encouraging their reading etc. They call her cell phone and send her letters. She visits her most troubled kids in their homes weekly. Her school is in "lock down" at least 2 or 3 times a month because of a gun threat, a shooting, or drug deal gone wrong in the projects that are directly adjacent to her classroom.

Her starting salary was $34,000 a year. This was with a Masters degree. In my office that degree would give her a salary of approx. $90,000 with matching bonus. I work in a nice safe office where no one has to work while sitting in a corner with the lights out and the door locked waiting for the police to clear the area. I don't have to buy my supplies to do my work.

I believe a teacher with a Masters degree should make a minimum of$45,000 to $50,000 as a starting salary with routine evaluations and healthy raises to compensate the better teachers as they progress.

[Allifunn]

My daughter teaches first grade in an innercity project school.

I believe a teacher with a Masters degree should make a minimum of$45,000 to $50,000 as a starting salary with routine evaluations and healthy raises to compensate the better teachers as they progress.
She is a very special lady!
Good numbers Cheering.

[Mango]

Can we define decent salary? The only number I remember seeing so far is $50K, which with benefits and the work schedule is a good place to start.

WaltonGOP, here is a link to the NYS Education Dept. (http://http://www.highered.nysed.gov/tcert/career/nyteachers_oppforteachers.htm) which lists the average teacher salary here in NY as $55,181. My family here in New York discussed moving to Sowal at one point and selling our homes here, and the reason we didn't is the school system. No other Southern state, with the exception of some Ga. schools, could compare to the programs available here and the quality of teachers that this State and surrounding New England States attract.
Teachers with advanced degrees earn considerably more. The State also offers advanced education for teachers as well. There is a grading program going on in the boroughs for teachers, and they are dumping the ones they do not feel make the cut. In certain more high end neighborboods, the schools compensensation can be as high as 80-95K, ie; Chappaqua (Hillary land) and teachers are often competing for these jobs. The cost of living here in New York is really not much different than Sowal with the exception of food and rents in some areas. The price of food here is lower, rents being higher depending on the neighborhood.
I can't possibly see how teachers in Walton County are surviving there at those salary levels.

[Blair]

In Memphis...I think around 28,000 a year is starter salary. Not enough in my opinion to recruit the kinds of people needed to ENHANCE our public education system. Pay them a base with incentives for student performance.
Does that seem just too logical???? Oh I forgot about the teachers unions that won't allow that to happen.....

[iwishiwasthere]

It seems that Walton County has a good group of concerned citizens, and this board provides one way to get feedback. Nice question.




Tenure certainly has its drawbacks. Often teachers become apathetic or discontented. Those seem to be the ones that need the benefit of a tenure restructuring. I see way too many teachers that need to change occupations.

burn out tends to be pretty high in teaching, it seems. :wave: how long have you taught iwiwt?[/QUOTE]


This is 26th year. Without sounding cheesy, I really love what I do.:wub: That is why I stay. I work 11 month and 2 weeks (two summer schools), have a master's degree and am 8 hours shy of a plus 30 which means a pay raise. I earn less than $50,000. It must be love.:blush::D

[Tootsie]

This is 26th year. Without sounding cheesy, I really love what I do.:wub: That is why I stay. I work 11 month and 2 weeks (two summer schools), have a master's degree and am 8 hours shy of a plus 30 which means a pay raise. I earn less than $50,000. It must be love.:blush::D

how wonderful to have a long long career doing what you love and do best. congratuations and thank you!

[Tootsie]

Can we define decent salary? The only number I remember seeing so far is $50K, which with benefits and the work schedule is a good place to start.


it would be great to see $50K as an average teacher salary. but with a significant range upward depending on: education level, job performance, and many other factors.

[wrobert]

it would be great to see $50K as an average teacher salary. but with a significant range upward depending on: education level, job performance, and many other factors.

Now hold on. You said average teacher's salary. I do not see how in the world you are going to work on that with so many varying lengths of service from county to county in this State and in the country.

Currently a teacher in Walton County starts at about $32K a year, plus benefits, for about 190 days of service. Will have to try to verify the days, but school is 180 so that gives them 5 at the begining and 5 at the end.

So if that is a poor salary, then what should it be to start with?

[Tootsie]

Now hold on. You said average teacher's salary. I do not see how in the world you are going to work on that with so many varying lengths of service from county to county in this State and in the country.

Currently a teacher in Walton County starts at about $32K a year, plus benefits, for about 190 days of service. Will have to try to verify the days, but school is 180 so that gives them 5 at the begining and 5 at the end.

So if that is a poor salary, then what should it be to start with?

you know, 32K is not bad for a starting salary. I did not realize this was the case here.

ideally average teacher pay would be up in the 60's, but there are so many variables and changes that need to be considered.

sorry, I really don't know - I'm way out of the loop. my earlier comments were based on revamping education in general, including how we define and pay teachers. I think their salaries are going to always be limited as long as the current system is in place, including union restrictions on performance pay, etc. I think a fair salary would be based on a lot of variables... not just number of years or a typical pay scale. and it should reward excellent teachers, and push out the ones not really made for the profession.

[seaside2]

Being a good and caring teacher is a tough profession. Lots of hours, money out of your own pocket, emotional trauma, etc.

Ms Seaside did it for years and I can't begin to tell you of the hours she (and me too) put in grading papers, going to kids' homes to check on them, etc. she loved it except on the 1st and 25th.

How much is the right amount of pay:idontno:

Don't forget that teacher pay comes from taxes and significant increases in pay result in increased taxes, and vistually no one likes that.

Also, the management issues (Tenure, performance, pay for performance, etc) raise their ugly head. What I remember most was that every good teacher did it out of love for the kids and education.

How much is the right amount of pay:idontno:

How about 100% of the median annual individual income of the area that the person teaches in as a mid point, 80% as a minimum and 150% as a maximum, with adders for MS and PhD?

[WileCoyote]

Attached are the most recent Salary comparisons from the State Department of education.

Walton County teachers are above the state average in compensation. The minimum starting salary for Walton county is now $32K rather than the $29k as listed in the 2006-2007 salary study.

Note the fact that teacher salaries in Walton county are on average - higher than any pandhandle school district other than Okaloosa and are higher than the state average.

Quick Facts:

WALTON
38,930 - Average salary for a BS Degree - 8.34 yrs experience
50,500 - Average salary for a MS -12.37 yrs
50,680 - Average salary for a specialist -8.83 yrs
47,960 - Average salary for PHD - 8.80 yrs
42,880 - Average for all Degrees -9.58 yrs

[Furthur]

There is an old saw that people go into the private sector for the dough and the public for security. Probably still true.
Teaching has status. They have respect. Lots of people don't get paid what they are worth. Ask any CNA.
In a free market bosses only pay as much as it takes to keep their chairs filled with qualified people.
Same holds for the Board of Ed.

[scooterbug44]

Quick Facts:

WALTON
38,930 - Average salary for a BS Degree - 8.34 yrs experience
50,500 - Average salary for a MS -12.37 yrs
50,680 - Average salary for a specialist -8.83 yrs
47,960 - Average salary for PHD - 8.80 yrs
42,880 - Average for all Degrees -9.58 yrs

That seems pretty fair to me based on this math - someone working 9 hours a day at $25 an hour for 180 days a year = $40.5K

(I did 9 hours to factor in pre and post school duties.)

[rapunzel]

That seems pretty fair to me based on this math - someone working 9 hours a day at $25 an hour for 180 days a year = $40.5K

(I did 9 hours to factor in pre and post school duties.)

Yes, but we're failing to factor in the cost of living here. We may be above the state average, but the cost of living here is way above the state average.

[scooterbug44]

Housing costs are higher here, but per Papa Scooterbug's gimlet eye at the grocery food is comparable to other areas of the US. IMO it all evens out as far as cost of living by the time you factor in all the possible variables.

$40K a year with several months of vacation - I'd sign up for that! :wave:

[WileCoyote]

:rofl:

Cost of Living Index for Walton County is 93. State average index for all counties is 101.3. Average for South Florida Counties is 109.8.

South Florida Counties had the highest increase in the index in the Nation in 2006. Primarily due to property taxes and homeowners insurance increases. Even though Walton County had a hugh housing runup, the local government taxing authorities did rollback the millage rates, but that did not help 2nd home and business owners.

In reality 68% of the cost of all government services in Walton County is collected from second homeowners, non-homesteaded properties, and businesses. Man we really stick it to them.

We just keep asking them to pay more and more while a homesteaded property owner in Walton County keeps paying less and less of the total.

These figures are from 2006 The most latest I can find.