Is Hillary going to self destruct ???

[goofer44]

Hillary seems to be in the middle of a huge slide. If she loses Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina....is she then toast ? Is she toast now ?? Didn't you just LOVE Obama's retort to a cackling and smug Hillary. I love Obama and he will be a future president . He is so right on most issues and he is inspirational and a role model for young people. But he needs another 8 years of seasoning and experience. My guy is McCain for president but someday Obama will occupy the oval office. I would love a McCain/Lieberman ticket.

[scooterbug44]

Only if Santa gets my letter and decides I've been a VERY good girl! :biggrin:

I also asked for a McCain/Obama ticket.

[JoshMclean]

I wouldn't mind seeing a Hillary/Howard Dean ticket!

[Dune-AHH]

Wouldn't it be an amazing step in the direction of unification if the Pres/VP spots were from separate parties (sans assassination temptation)?

[Smiling JOe]

I wouldn't mind seeing a Hillary/Howard Dean ticket!:floor: You must be a Republican, because if those two were representing the Dems, ...

[JoshMclean]

;-)

[goofer44]

eeeeeeeyyyyyaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh

[JUL]

eeeeeeeyyyyyaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh

We could only hope! Some one who wants power that badly scares me!

[Smiling JOe]

lol. That sounds just like him!

I think the more I hear Hillary respond to Edwards and Obama, the more anger she seems to reek.

[goofer44]

Obama's comment to her at the last debate about " looking forward to having her advising him " really shut her up and wiped that cackling annoying grin off her face. Slick Willie is also showing his dark and angry side now too. A pox on both of them !!!

[hnooe]

I am a huge fan of Hillary Clinton..... But lets face it, in both parties the idea of front runner is only a temporary condition at best--it is totally up in the air right now on both sides!

On the Repub side, it seems Mike Huckabee is now ahead in the polls--that won't remain either, since I think most logical thinking Dems and Repubs want someone with a little more world stage knowledge and experience. Besides, abortion, gay marriage, and the ability to talk directly to God, are not seen as important issues to most in 2008.

[Johnrudy]

Hillary seems to be in the middle of a huge slide. If she loses Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina....is she then toast ? Is she toast now ?? Didn't you just LOVE Obama's retort to a cackling and smug Hillary. I love Obama and he will be a future president . He is so right on most issues and he is inspirational and a role model for young people. But he needs another 8 years of seasoning and experience. My guy is McCain for president but someday Obama will occupy the oval office. I would love a McCain/Lieberman ticket.

Re: Is Hillary going to self destruct ???

No. She's most likely going to win.

[sowalgayboi]

eeeeeeeyyyyyaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh

This one still gets me as it was a sound bite someone got from the mixing board and then it was used over and over again until everyone forgot it was doctored.

Re: Is Hillary going to self destruct ???

No. She's most likely going to win.

:clap:

[Mango]

I read she's doing a commercial with her mother trying to prove she wasn't raised by jackals. :lol:
In any event, I think the Hildebeast boat is sinking, but too early to really tell yet.

[Fishfood]

Her campaign accused Obama of being a DRUG DEALER last week. Are you kidding me? Now they are emphasizing that he has Muslim roots. Oh the horror. Her campaign is sending out some real scummy vibes lately. But she'll still likely win the nomination.

[Scooter]

Let her win the nomination. That way we know we'll have a Republican president!!!!!!:clap:

[Rita]

I read she's doing a commercial with her mother trying to prove she wasn't raised by jackals. :lol:
................
:lolabove::floor: That is too funny!

.

[rapunzel]

Hillary seems to be in the middle of a huge slide. If she loses Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina....is she then toast ? Is she toast now ?? Didn't you just LOVE Obama's retort to a cackling and smug Hillary. I love Obama and he will be a future president . He is so right on most issues and he is inspirational and a role model for young people. But he needs another 8 years of seasoning and experience. My guy is McCain for president but someday Obama will occupy the oval office. I would love a McCain/Lieberman ticket.

While McCain is my second choice, and if Hillary gets the D nomination I hope he is the Republican nominee, I have to disagree with your assertion that Obama needs "8 years of seasoning". Staying in the thick of Washington, raising the money it takes to mount these campaigns, I think it just sucks the soul right out of people. I've worked with lobbyists to try to influence healthcare legislation, and I've seen how slimy it all is. The big money donors don't give without strings. The longer someone has to walk around with his hand out, the more favors he owes.

Personally, I find idealism a good thing for a leader to have. I much prefer a president with the cahones to surround himself the best advisors and a little shred of his soul intact so that he may make the best decisions for the people, rather than the Washington savvy politician making decisions based on polls and fear of lobbies and special interests. Ultimately, judgement and intelligence trump the experience of 5 or six years in Washington.

Barack Obama believes there are moments that demand new American leadership abroad, and this is one of those moments. He's running to change a conventional way of thinking about foreign policy that values time spent in Washington over timely judgments; posturing over pragmatism; and fear of looking weak over the conviction to get things right.

Today in Des Moines, Iowa, Obama is discussing his foreign policy vision with his top foreign policy advisors Tony Lake, former Clinton national security advisor; Susan Rice, former Clinton assistant secretary of state; and General Scott Gration because he believes that the next President will have to be open and candid with the American people about foreign policy.
He has served for three years on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, where he worked across the aisle with Dick Lugar to keep the world's most dangerous weapons away from terrorists; and traveled overseas to Africa, throughout the Middle East, and across the former Soviet Union. He opposed the Iraq War from the start, and his vision is informed by knowing what it's like to live in the wider world, beyond the halls of power; and by having family in Kenya, including a grandmother who lives without electricity or plumbing.

Obama had the judgment and courage to oppose the Iraq war from the start - at a time when it wasn't popular to do so. He's showing the same qualities in his approach to Iran. Earlier this year, while he was getting attacked for calling for direct diplomacy with Iran's leaders, others were talking tough and voting for an amendment that calls for George Bush to use our troops in Iraq to counter Iran. Now, we learn in a National Intelligence Estimate that Iran actually suspended its nuclear program several years ago in response to international pressure. Obama put forward a new approach, and did so when it was politically risky. On opposing the war in Iraq, on finishing the fight in Afghanistan, and on calling for diplomacy - not war - with Iran, Obama has shown the judgment to lead.

[scooterbug44]

My master plan is McCain/Obama 2008, Obama/? 2012

Gives me McCain as a capable and honest president during what I expect will be a rough 4 years for the US, and Obama 4 years to show off his skills and wow the folks who have racial issues.

[Smiling JOe]

My master plan is McCain/Obama 2008, Obama/? 2012

Gives me McCain as a capable and honest president during what I expect will be a rough 4 years for the US, and Obama 4 years to show off his skills and wow the folks who have racial issues.
I thought Lieberman was going to be on McCain's ticket.:idontno: What happens if Mitt wins the GOP nomination? With my mom "leaning towards" Biden, I am wondering if she has some inside info on who is most likely to take the Dem nomination. If the Dems don't swing to Biden, Obama has a chance of winning. However, word on the street is that the black voters are not behind Obama and that many white people will never vote for a black man as President. It's sad the way race plays a role in poliTRICKS, but it does. I'm not sure that we will see McCain and Obama on the same ticket.

[scooterbug44]

I though Lieberman was going to be on McCain's ticket.:idontno:
This is MY master plan! That's why the president is currently a Republican senator and the VP is currently a Democratic senator. :biggrin:

And I made Obama VP first because of people being such idiots about race.

[Beach House 25]

I wouldn't mind seeing a Hillary/Howard Dean ticket!

Seems that This classified Snapshot of the Clinton's? Might provide you a two for one :rofl:

[hnooe]

Hillary seems to be in the middle of a huge slide. If she loses Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina....is she then toast ? Is she toast now ?? Didn't you just LOVE Obama's retort to a cackling and smug Hillary. I love Obama and he will be a future president . He is so right on most issues and he is inspirational and a role model for young people. But he needs another 8 years of seasoning and experience. My guy is McCain for president but someday Obama will occupy the oval office. I would love a McCain/Lieberman ticket.

2 Weeks Later from Original Thread:

I am not so sure! She has advanced in the Iowa polls, it is anyone's call! My greatest fear for Hillary, as a staunch Dem., is Mr Mc Cain, if Lieberman joins him it will be too close to call--he will get many Independents away from the Dems.

I am just praying that Huckabee get the Repub. nod, as it now appears he will.

PS: I could live with McCain, I guess.

[rapunzel]

Thursday is going to be a very exciting day. :clap:

[seacrestkristi]

Hillary seems to be in the middle of a huge slide. If she loses Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina....is she then toast ? Is she toast now ?? Didn't you just LOVE Obama's retort to a cackling and smug Hillary. I love Obama and he will be a future president . He is so right on most issues and he is inspirational and a role model for young people. But he needs another 8 years of seasoning and experience. My guy is McCain for president but someday Obama will occupy the oval office. I would love a McCain/Lieberman ticket.

Sorry, I don't see this slide you speak of. I guess we'll see. If anyone is smug it is Mr. Obama. That remark was a joke and an insult. He'll be lucky if he is advising her. Smart alec man! :floor::funn:

[wrobert]

I am just praying that Huckabee get the Repub. nod, as it now appears he will.


But what if Huckabee gets the Republican nod then goes on to win the Presidency? I watched Camp Jesus on A&E last night. Now I am getting scared.

[jdarg]

But what if Huckabee gets the Republican nod then goes on to win the Presidency? I watched Camp Jesus on A&E last night. Now I am getting scared.

And we should be. Let me repeat my blechhhh.....

[seaside2]

UUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHH?????????????????
How about none of the above?

what say we run an ad in the Wall Street Journal and just hire somebody?

Just about anybody would be better than the bunch we got running.:bang:

[hnooe]

Jan 4, 2008: Almost, but not completely yet? She has been given a wake up call I guess....

[Smiling JOe]

Has anyone else noticed that she has been coached a bit regarding her voice. Listen to her talk 6 months ago. She talked with anger. Now, she sounds very relaxed, as though she popped a little blue pill.

[peapod1980]

Has anyone else noticed that she has been coached a bit regarding her voice. Listen to her talk 6 months ago. She talked with anger. Now, she sounds very relaxed, as though she popped a little blue pill.
Viagra?
She's all nasal Chicago to me, which grates on my ears. (Sorry, Johnrudy.)

[Smiling JOe]

http://luxor.ilcannocchiale.it/mediamanager/sys.user/24300/Valium-(Pillpopper%5D.jpg

[peapod1980]

Oh, OK. ;-) I actually suspect she takes Viagra. :lol:

[Smiling JOe]

Well, she is 1/2 man.

[jdarg]

CNN is running a story wondering if Hillary were President, would she nominate Bill to the Supreme Court. Talk about trying to arouse fear! Like he would ever make it through the hearings.:roll:

[NoHall]

Well, she is 1/2 man.

Only half?!?!

CNN is running a story wondering if Hillary were President, would she nominate Bill to the Supreme Court. Talk about trying to arouse fear! Like he would ever make it through the hearings.:roll:

Dear GAWD!!! I think you just took 10 years off my life...

[peapod1980]

CNN is running a story wondering if Hillary were President, would she nominate Bill to the Supreme Court. Talk about trying to arouse fear! Like he would ever make it through the hearings.:roll:
I was going to say something tasteless about Monica's blue dress being worse than Anita's Coke can, but I won't go there.
Oops, too late. :floor:

[Smiling JOe]

I read that article yesterday, and it pointed out a very important thought. Bill would do it only if he could be the Chief Judge, and Judge Roberts ain't giving up that seat.

[Smiling JOe]

More interesting is the story about Obama's campaign encouraging out of state Iowa students to vote in the Iowa caucus.
(full article - www.desmoinesregister.com (http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071211/OPINION01/712110372/-1/NEWS04))

"On the Democratic side, Barack Obama's campaign is telling Iowa college students they can caucus for him even if they aren't from Iowa. Five of the six Democratic presidential campaigns have said they don't want their out-of-town staffers caucusing in Iowa, even though some of these staffers have already registered to vote here.

...Obama's campaign is telling Iowa college students they can caucus for him even if they aren't from Iowa. His campaign offers that advice in a brochure being distributed on college campuses in the state. A spokesman said 50,000 of the fliers are being distributed. It says: "If you are not from Iowa, you can come back for the Iowa caucus and caucus in your college neighborhood."

Given that many students in Iowa's colleges and universities are from Obama's neighboring home state of Illinois, the effort could net him lots of additional votes on caucus night. It's all quite legal, and other campaigns are signing up nonresident Iowa college students, too. But Obama's effort is unprecedented. No presidential campaign in memory has ever made such a large, open attempt to encourage students from another state to participate in Iowa's caucuses...."

[scooterbug44]

Viagra?
She's all nasal Chicago to me, which grates on my ears. (Sorry, Johnrudy.)

Hilary does NOT sound like she's from Chicago! :puke:

[TooFarTampa]

Now that Obama is seen as a viable candidate and not just too young/too inexperienced/a flash in the pan, Hillary is definitely toast. It is clear that all along, most Democrats were just hoping someone else would emerge.

Over the weekend she got angry, today she got teary. :shock: It is amazing how quickly this has happened. But is it all that surprising?

[Smiling JOe]

Is it surprising that Hillary is losing to Obama and Edwards? Quite surprising in my opinion. She doesn't seem like a leader, but she is more centered than Obama and Edwards combined, so I'm a little surprised. Maybe the Dems think that there are enough anti-Bush (and therefore anti-republican) people to really steer hard left. They may be right. Time will tell. Does Hillary have any money coming in at all, now that Obama is creaming her? How long can/will she last if this pace keeps up? Unless she completely flip flops into a different person, I don't think she has a chance in hell at being the Dem's nominee. Should I be surprised, is a different question. This race has quickly become a popularity contest, and I think most American's think that Obama is maybe the best orator of all the candidates, and he seems very calm, professional, leader-like, and friendly. I shouldn't be surprised, but I am.

The other question is, Will the GOP come together out of fear of Obama being too far left, and turn out to vote in record numbers. It may take that. Romney has a good point about McCain playing on experience in DC. Romney said that if McCain does so, Sen Obama will clobber him too, just as he did Hillary. Voters are looking for a chance at change.

[rapunzel]

Is it surprising that Hillary is losing to Obama and Edwards? Quite surprising in my opinion. She doesn't seem like a leader, but she is more centered than Obama and Edwards combined, so I'm a little surprised. Maybe the Dems think that there are enough anti-Bush (and therefore anti-republican) people to really steer hard left. They may be right. Time will tell. Does Hillary have any money coming in at all, now that Obama is creaming her? How long can/will she last if this pace keeps up? Unless she completely flip flops into a different person, I don't think she has a chance in hell at being the Dem's nominee. Should I be surprised, is a different question. This race has quickly become a popularity contest, and I think most American's think that Obama is maybe the best orator of all the candidates, and he seems very calm, professional, leader-like, and friendly. I shouldn't be surprised, but I am.

The other question is, Will the GOP come together out of fear of Obama being too far left, and turn out to vote in record numbers. It may take that. Romney has a good point about McCain playing on experience in DC. Romney said that if McCain does so, Sen Obama will clobber him too, just as he did Hillary. Voters are looking for a chance at change.

SJ, I love and respect you and I say this in that spirit -- please balance your conservative talk radio news consumption with an hour of NPR for some perspective.

All three of the frontrunners for the Democratic nomination are pretty centrist. Of the three, Edwards is the furthest left with elements of populism mixed into his platform. Hillary is good bit to the right of Edwards as her platform stops short of socializing medicine, and instead socializes insurance, she is not quite as willing to increase taxes on corporations. Barack Obama is to the right of Hillary and very centrist. Most of the criticism of his platform comes from the most liberal wing of the party, they accuse him of not going far enough with healthcare, etc. and don't like his record of working with Republicans to make change happen.

As for the sentiment that this election is becoming a popularity contest, I find that insulting. I looked carefully at each candidates platform early last year and studied and listened and decided that Obama's plan was the one that most closely matched my own views and that seemed the most reasonable, achievable, and grounded in reality. I think a lot of people felt the same way, but worried that he was unelectable either because he was black or because the Clinton machine was so powerful. His decisive and historic victory in Iowa reassured those attracted to his message that he was a viable candidate, and his poll numbers soared. Your dismissive attitude of Obama's success in the campaign as a "popularity contest" comes off as elitist if not bigoted, and I know you to be neither of those things.

[seacrestkristi]

I'm really not surprised at all. This country is not 'ready' even though the woman is. It really wouldn't matter who the woman was. The smear campaign against her has been incredibly :( alone and also in comparison to her male counterparts. Why not an , "Will Obama or McCain Self-Destruct?" thread. Just look at all the negative remarks and threads for her. I'm asking why all the extra negatiivity towards her? I don't think she deserves it. I think she deserves a little respect. :wub:

[JoshMclean]

I'm really not surprised at all. This country is not 'ready' even though the woman is. It really wouldn't matter who the woman was. The smear campaign against her has been incredibly :( alone and also in comparison to her male counterparts. Why not an , "Will Obama or McCain Self-Destruct?" thread. Just look at all the negative remarks and threads for her. I'm asking why all the extra negatiivity towards her? I don't think she deserves it. I think she deserves a little respect. :wub:

I think the thread was probably started because she was the front runner when this all started. Many people were ready to swear her in just a few months ago. I personally don't like her policies and she just gives me a bad feeling overall. Mitt Romney is starting to give me that same feeling at this point. They both seem like robots to me. I wouldn't say that this country isn't ready for a female president, just not this female. Bring on Margaret Thatcher and I'll vote for a female.

[rapunzel]

I think the thread was probably started because she was the front runner when this all started. Many people were ready to swear her in just a few months ago. I personally don't like her policies and she just gives me a bad feeling overall. Mitt Romney is starting to give me that same feeling at this point. They both seem like robots to me. I wouldn't say that this country isn't ready for a female president, just not this female. Bring on Margaret Thatcher and I'll vote for a female.

Well said. :clap:

Let's stop playing the woman card. Particularly in light of the fact that Americans have shown an ability to look beyond race in this election, I think blaming her poor showing in Iowa and in some polls on her sex rings hollow.

[Maid of Honor]

If you want to blame it on someone, blame it on Bill.

[goofer44]

Now that Obama is seen as a viable candidate and not just too young/too inexperienced/a flash in the pan, Hillary is definitely toast. It is clear that all along, most Democrats were just hoping someone else would emerge.

Over the weekend she got angry, today she got teary. :shock: It is amazing how quickly this has happened. But is it all that surprising?

Today she had her Ed Muskie moment.....which ended his campaign in 1972. I think she will drop out if she loses in South Carolina. Losing 3 of the early primaries will be too much rejection for her to bear. She is under enormous stress now and is starting to show it.

[Smiling JOe]

SJ, I love and respect you and I say this in that spirit -- please balance your conservative talk radio news consumption with an hour of NPR for some perspective.

All three of the frontrunners for the Democratic nomination are pretty centrist. Of the three, Edwards is the furthest left with elements of populism mixed into his platform. Hillary is good bit to the right of Edwards as her platform stops short of socializing medicine, and instead socializes insurance, she is not quite as willing to increase taxes on corporations. Barack Obama is to the right of Hillary and very centrist. Most of the criticism of his platform comes from the most liberal wing of the party, they accuse him of not going far enough with healthcare, etc. and don't like his record of working with Republicans to make change happen.

As for the sentiment that this election is becoming a popularity contest, I find that insulting. I looked carefully at each candidates platform early last year and studied and listened and decided that Obama's plan was the one that most closely matched my own views and that seemed the most reasonable, achievable, and grounded in reality. I think a lot of people felt the same way, but worried that he was unelectable either because he was black or because the Clinton machine was so powerful. His decisive and historic victory in Iowa reassured those attracted to his message that he was a viable candidate, and his poll numbers soared. Your dismissive attitude of Obama's success in the campaign as a "popularity contest" comes off as elitist if not bigoted, and I know you to be neither of those things.
:wave: I love you, too. You may find this difficult to believe based on your guess as to my news sources, but I try to listen to all sides, and on average, listen to more npr, than talk radio. It is really difficult to hear much on the left side of things, by tuning into the radio. The shows are non-existent in our local area. NPR has a small bit of news from that angle. I try to catch the BBC news hour at night, but don't always listen in. Without cable, I don't get Fox, Fox News, CNN, nor MSNBC. I am limited to somewhat left CBS, NBC, ABC, and the mostly neutral PBS.

As for the bigot comment, I'm glad you clarified your statement. I am far from a bigot. My comment comes from the perspective that Obama is very likable as a person, and Hillary is very repulsive.

Regarding who is the most left, that remains to be seen. I may have misunderstood the part you mentioned about Hillary, "she is not quite as willing to increase taxes on corporations." I thought I heard Hillary in a recent speech stating that the oil companies make too many profits and that she wants the Federal Gov't to take away/limit their profits.

[Smiling JOe]

I think the thread was probably started because she was the front runner when this all started. Many people were ready to swear her in just a few months ago. I think you nailed the reason for the question. IMO, with all of Bill's support, and her experience, this is Hillary's race to lose. If Obama's name was the subject of the thread, it would be more along the lines of Will Obama be able to Win? He was the underdog, in my opinion.

[seacrestkristi]

Well said. :clap:

Let's stop playing the woman card. Particularly in light of the fact that Americans have shown an ability to look beyond race in this election, I think blaming her poor showing in Iowa and in some polls on her sex rings hollow.

Why don't we stop playing the race card while we're at it too. You claim to be so proud that people are looking beyond the fact that the man is half black, half white. Isn't it a given that is how it should be. The fact that you're so proud that people are looking past his race is strange to me. Big whoop. They should be. What is so outstanding about that? Where is the big change? To me, he is the status quo. What is so new about Obama? What is the change. He's a politician too. So what has he done for his state? What is so 'new' and different about him?

[Dune-AHH]

Well said. :clap:

Let's stop playing the woman card. Particularly in light of the fact that Americans have shown an ability to look beyond race in this election, I think blaming her poor showing in Iowa and in some polls on her sex rings hollow.

Another Well Said.

[goofer44]

I think the thread was probably started because she was the front runner when this all started. Many people were ready to swear her in just a few months ago. I personally don't like her policies and she just gives me a bad feeling overall. Mitt Romney is starting to give me that same feeling at this point. They both seem like robots to me. I wouldn't say that this country isn't ready for a female president, just not this female. Bring on Margaret Thatcher and I'll vote for a female.


I started the thread in mid December right after her complete flip flop in the democratic debate when she contradicted herself regarding giving driver licenses to illegals in NY ( the Spitzer plan ). That moment showed quite effectively what Edwards was criticizing Clinton on. Her inability or reluctance, to answer a question directly. It was right after that debate that the big slide started. It has taken on more momentum and I believe she willl leave the race after she loses South Carolina. Today's emotional moment will accelerate her self destruction.

[Smiling JOe]

Goofer, I hear only a sound bite of her breakdown today. It sounded very sad, like she has given up. Do you think it was just good acting, or do you think that is the signal for real, that she is giving up?

[NoHall]

Goofer, I hear only a sound bite of her breakdown today. It sounded very sad, like she has given up. Do you think it was just good acting, or do you think that is the signal for real, that she is giving up?

It was like a Momma guilt trip..."You go ahead and trash your room and stay out late and get pregnant. I'm just trying to keep you from dying of a meth overdose because I LOVE you. If I didn't love you I wouldn't stay up all night and worry..."

Made me want to get pregnant and live in a trailer park. In Bermuda. Crocodile tears don't work with me.

[jpbhen]

It was like a Momma guilt trip..."You go ahead and trash your room and stay out late and get pregnant. I'm just trying to keep you from dying of a meth overdose because I LOVE you. If I didn't love you I wouldn't stay up all night and worry..."

Made me want to get pregnant and live in a trailer park. In Bermuda. Crocodile tears don't work with me.

amen.

[Fishfood]

There's no crying in politics. That really was pathetic. Anyway even if she gets beaten in these first four states she still has a very good shot of winning the nomination. I hope Obama wins, but February 5th is really the big day and in the states with no independents allowed Hillary will probably do much better than she has in these early states. I still think it's 50-50 between the two.

[seacrestkristi]

I don't think it was neither a breakdown or pathetic. I think her being a little emotional was a sign of true caring and compassion for this country. :wub:

[TooFarTampa]

I don't think it was neither a breakdown or pathetic. I think her being a little emotional was a sign of true caring and compassion for this country. :wub:

I think it was calculated, and I am not alone, and it is not the first time Hillary's truthiness has been questioned, hence her main problem.

[seacrestkristi]

So you think she faked her tears too? I don't. I'm not alone either. :wave:

[rapunzel]

:wave: I love you, too. You may find this difficult to believe based on your guess as to my news sources, but I try to listen to all sides, and on average, listen to more npr, than talk radio. It is really difficult to hear much on the left side of things, by tuning into the radio. The shows are non-existent in our local area. NPR has a small bit of news from that angle. I try to catch the BBC news hour at night, but don't always listen in. Without cable, I don't get Fox, Fox News, CNN, nor MSNBC. I am limited to somewhat left CBS, NBC, ABC, and the mostly neutral PBS.

As for the bigot comment, I'm glad you clarified your statement. I am far from a bigot. My comment comes from the perspective that Obama is very likable as a person, and Hillary is very repulsive.

Regarding who is the most left, that remains to be seen. I may have misunderstood the part you mentioned about Hillary, "she is not quite as willing to increase taxes on corporations." I thought I heard Hillary in a recent speech stating that the oil companies make too many profits and that she wants the Federal Gov't to take away/limit their profits.

I apologize for making assumptions about your news sources. The bits of news I caught yesterday included some hand-wringing from liberals on Obama's centrist views and willingness to embrace bipartisanship, but the conservative talk radio guys turned on a dime from bashing Hillary to this sort of crap (talking about Obama's speech after Iowa--
"Wasn't that cool? Wasn't that amazing? Wasn't that uplifting? Wasn't that just . . . totally wrong?" Limbaugh asked after playing a clip from Obama's speech. "What was that an appeal for? 'Red state America, blue states, we're the United States.' Yes, that means, the codeword there is: bipartisanship. We have to stop the partisan rancor. . . . Folks, when you hear anybody -- and this gets back to basic conservatism 101 -- when you hear anybody, I don't care if it's a Republican or a Democrat start talking about 'ending bipartisan,' red flags ought to go up left and right. Partisanship is ideal. Partisanship is crucial. Partisanship is based in ideals and principles, and people who hold those principles dear and are loyal to them will not compromise them. Partisanship founded the country; partisanship propels the country. What we do not need is an end to partisanship. If we finally come up with this notion of bipartisanship across the board and the country's unified, one of two things is actually going to have happened. One side is going to have lost. So the question is, 'Who wins?' The question is victory, not bipartisanship. I would love the bipartisanship of liberalism as a 20 percent body of thought in this country. I could live with that kind of bipartisanship. The idea is to defeat them! Liberalism poses threats and dangers to this country, and your economic security, and your economic future. Liberals are to be defeated, not to be gotten along with. It's the nature of American politics."

And then there were a few tirades about Democrats being a bunch of mindless lemmings and supporting Obama because he's doing well.

I am sorry if I took your post to be advancing that sort of viewpoint, since that was not your intent.

I'm just so sick of the rhetoric, the negative drumbeat of fear and despair. It depresses me how many people are influenced by this propaganda that is not backed up by facts or logic. I felt I had to point out that Obama is the least liberal of the D candidates.

And, um, the news sources...that's just sad. I can't even make myself watch PBS news. Have you tried streaming BBC news? That might be an option -- although I've been cringing at British coverage of the election all morning.

[Mango]

Why don't we stop playing the race card while we're at it too. You claim to be so proud that people are looking beyond the fact that the man is half black, half white.

Maybe you should be telling Gloria Steinem to stop playing the race card.

In her desperate support of Hillary in an op-ed in the New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/08/opinion/08steinem.html?_r=2&ref=opinion&oref=slogin&oref=slogin)today she writes: "because racism stereotyped black men as more “masculine” for so long that some white men find their presence to be masculinity-affirming (as long as there aren’t too many of them); and because there is still no “right” way to be a woman in public power without being considered a you-know-what."
:blink:
Edward Morrissey (http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/016554.php#comments)says it best:
"Hillary had a lot of advantages coming into this race, something Steinem fails to mention. Besides the identity politics angle Steinem pursued, she had a lot of goodwill left over in the party from her husband's administration, a big political machine waiting for her, and money raining all over her for a year. At some point, however, Hillary had to show that she was the best candidate for the job -- and she's been failing miserably at that task.
Steinem shows everything that's wrong with identity politics. It's crass, it's irrational, it assumes that people should get "turns", and in the end it's anti-democratic. Obama hasn't played that game like Hillary has -- and that may be why Obama's beating Hillary like a bongo drum in Iowa and New Hampshire."

[seacrestkristi]

After all it is a big game, isn't it? Mystery is more fuNN than clear cut plans to so many.:creepy:

[rapunzel]

The crying thing yesterday, it didn't strike me as fake. It struck me as someone who has given up so much of her life, compromised so many times, for the promise of the day when it would be her turn, only to realize it's all slipping away. On a personal level, I do feel sorry for her. When you think that on top of the rejection, she is having to deal with the Democratic establishment (aka Clinton machine) up in arms because of all the money they've given her and she's losing. Professional donors see it as an investment to give money, and they are not supportive when things don't go well.

I fear we are writing her obituary prematurely, though. She and Obama are still essentially tied in national polls, and we can't forget that the machine is supporting the Clinton Restoration. Obama and his supporters can swarm Iowa, New Hampshire, and perhaps South Carolina and get his message in front of voters and push the GOTV. Tsunami Tuesday is going to make that sort of grassroots push impossible. The Democratic establishment in all those states will be far more prepared than the Obama organizations. A lot of powerful people have put a lot of money behind Hillary, and they will not give up easily.

Hillary's supporters are demanding that she attack Obama, and that's happening. Her campaign sent out a mailer stating he is "unwilling to take a stand on choice." NARAL is now calling 82,000 pro-choice Independent voters in New Hampshire with a message from NARAL president Nancy Keenan: "All the Democratic candidates running for president are pro-choice and will support and defend a woman's right to choose."

There are also calls for Mark Penn's head, and reports that Bill Clinton has been in contact with James Carville, and Carville has agreed to come on board if they get rid of Penn. (If Bill Clinton brings in his old guard to save Hillary's campaign, how can we pretend that she is anything more than a figurehead rather than a feminist?) Carville is good at what he does, and he knows how to crank up the machine. Is he good enough to bring Obama down?

[Smiling JOe]

Punzy, Apology accepted. Thank you.

I didn't even realize that Rush was still on the air. They don't even play him on the talk channels around here. Rush is an entertainer at best. I do listen to his son, Sean Hannity, every once in a while. I say his son, because Sean can be a real fruit cake, often focusing on one thing, taken out of context. So, I also think of him more as a pudding stick (reference to the days of the outhouse -- I'll let you guess what a pudding stick is used for). Some days when I listen, he just annoys me and I change the station.

Yes, my current TV selection is crap, but it wasn't much better with Cable. I do miss C-Span. This morning, I was listening to Diane Rheeme's discuss politics, and I thought she was never going to get the question out. The BBC broadcasts over the PBS TV station sometimes, as well as on NPR. Back in the days when I had highspeed cable, I streamlined most of my news. Now, I don't even click on the youtube videos, because it takes forever for them to download. Most of the news I get today comes from reading online papers.

I think we are all tired of the rhetoric and distractions of the candidates. It is a political race, so I guess we won't be changing their tactics.

I believe your quote of Rush Limbaugh mentioned that some people would fall into Obama's camp just because he is popular. I would agree with that. Not all people really care about the election (Surprise!), and people in general do tend to follow the masses. Look no further than the stock market and real estate trends, and you will see more proof of this idea. It doesn't mean that many of Obama's crew aren't sophisticated and knowledgeable, and are with him because they think he is the best candidate. Sure, there are some smart and concerned people in the US, but have you really looked around the country at the people in general? Those people I describe are out there. I wouldn't even go so far to say they are dumb, but they have the cattle mentality. It's human.

[scooterbug44]

I don't think Hilary losing the nomination or (god forbid) the presidential race means the end of her political career.

IMO she will have a long career as a Senator as her talents seem better suited to that job.

[Smiling JOe]

...When you think that on top of the rejection, she is having to deal with the Democratic establishment (aka Clinton machine) up in arms because of all the money they've given her and she's losing. Professional donors see it as an investment to give money, and they are not supportive when things don't go well.

I fear we are writing her obituary prematurely, though. ...A lot of powerful people have put a lot of money behind Hillary, and they will not give up easily.

Hillary's supporters are demanding that she attack Obama, and that's happening. Her campaign sent out a mailer stating he is "unwilling to take a stand on choice." NARAL is now calling 82,000 pro-choice Independent voters in New Hampshire with a message from NARAL president Nancy Keenan: "All the Democratic candidates running for president are pro-choice and will support and defend a woman's right to choose." ...

According to what I've heard, somewhere between 1-3% of voters are showing up at the Caucuses. So you may be spot-on about her obituary being premature. I'm not sure that the popular vote really matters anyway.

I'll say this one statement about the issue of abortion. Whether or not one is for or against it, and even if Roe V Wade is overturned and abortion suddenly becomes illegal, women who want to have an abortion will do it, and the legal aspects of abortion would only affect the health and safety of the would-be-mother. Congress (both houses) know this health/safety issue is out there, and they will do what they can to protect the life and health of the would be mother. (sounds strange since they don't fight as hard for the life of the unborn child, but I think it to be true.) Making alcohol illegal only changed the vendor of alcohol and the health of the drinker, as many moonshiners didn't know what they were doing and gave people ethyl alcohol and lead poisoning. Making abortion illegal, will change only the vendor of abortions, and perhaps put more would-be-mothers' lives in harms way. To put the legality of abortion in the top five list of important issues in a Presidential election, IMO, is just wrong.

[goofer44]

PUDDING STICK :floor::floor::floor:

I now have a great put down for my NY friends !!! And they won't even know what the hell it means !! :clap::clap::clap:

[rapunzel]

According to what I've heard, somewhere between 1-3% of voters are showing up at the Caucuses. So you may be spot-on about her obituary being premature. I'm not sure that the popular vote really matters anyway.

I'll say this one statement about the issue of abortion. Whether or not one is for or against it, and even if Roe V Wade is overturned and abortion suddenly becomes illegal, women who want to have an abortion will do it, and the legal aspects of abortion would only affect the health and safety of the would-be-mother. Congress (both houses) know this health/safety issue is out there, and they will do what they can to protect the life and health of the would be mother. (sounds strange since they don't fight as hard for the life of the unborn child, but I think it to be true.) Making alcohol illegal only changed the vendor of alcohol and the health of the drinker, as many moonshiners didn't know what they were doing and gave people ethyl alcohol and lead poisoning. Making abortion illegal, will change only the vendor of abortions, and perhaps put more would-be-mothers' lives in harms way. To put the legality of abortion in the top five list of important issues in a Presidential election, IMO, is just wrong.

I couldn't agree more with that last sentence. It makes me sick to think of all the important issues the Supreme Court deals with that directly effect all of our lives, but the only issue anyone seems to care about is a SC nominee's view on Roe v Wade.

I bring up the abortion mailer to point out the Rovian tactics of the whole thing.

[scooterbug44]

Congress (both houses) know this health/safety issue is out there, and they will do what they can to protect the life and health of the would be mother. To put the legality of abortion in the top five list of important issues in a Presidential election, IMO, is just wrong.

I don't think abortion should be the litmus test, but when politicians start legislating your medical rights, it definitely becomes a factor. Usually when you start exploring their position on that issue it reveals a lot about that candidate and how they feel about a variety of issues.

The issues of foreign policy, immigration and the economy are definitely much more important.

[Smiling JOe]

Goofer, to clarify, pudding stick isn't always a put-down. It simply refers to one who enjoys stirring the pudding. Usually, it is a negative trait, but sometimes the pudding does need to be stirred. Either way, the pudding stick gets covered in pudding.

[Smiling JOe]

I don't think abortion should be the litmus test, but when politicians start legislating your medical rights, it definitely becomes a factor.


I hear what you are saying, but a bunch of politicians never stopped the people from doing what they do. As Punzy pointed out, it is all a scare tactic and will not stop people from getting abortions.

Wealthy people will travel to other countries or go to private, confidential physicians, to get abortions. The ones who cannot afford that, will go to illegal clinics, or break out the coat hangers. The only thing at risk with making abortion illegal, is the would-be-mother's health and life. Politicians know this and will work policy around any Supreme Court ruling.

[scooterbug44]

So as long as unregulated illegal clinics or coat hangers are an option for the poor and politicians have my well being foremost in their minds we're all good on the medical front? What a crock! :angry:

It should be a medical decision between women and their doctors. No one else gets to have a say!

[Smiling JOe]

Should they have a say in what you smoke in your own house? What you drink? No, but they do have a say, and it still doesn't stop people from smoking pot and drinking. I never said you had to like it, just said that it won't stop people from having abortions. I don't know how to say it any more clearly, making abortion illegal will harm the health and life of the would-be-mothers, but making something illegal, will not stop people from doing what they do.

[Mango]

The crying thing yesterday, it didn't strike me as fake. It struck me as someone who has given up so much of her life, compromised so many times, for the promise of the day when it would be her turn, only to realize it's all slipping away. On a personal level, I do feel sorry for her. When you think that on top of the rejection, she is having to deal with the Democratic establishment (aka Clinton machine) up in arms because of all the money they've given her and she's losing. Professional donors see it as an investment to give money, and they are not supportive when things don't go well.

I fear we are writing her obituary prematurely, though. She and Obama are still essentially tied in national polls, and we can't forget that the machine is supporting the Clinton Restoration. Obama and his supporters can swarm Iowa, New Hampshire, and perhaps South Carolina and get his message in front of voters and push the GOTV. Tsunami Tuesday is going to make that sort of grassroots push impossible. The Democratic establishment in all those states will be far more prepared than the Obama organizations. A lot of powerful people have put a lot of money behind Hillary, and they will not give up easily.

Hillary's supporters are demanding that she attack Obama, and that's happening. Her campaign sent out a mailer stating he is "unwilling to take a stand on choice." NARAL is now calling 82,000 pro-choice Independent voters in New Hampshire with a message from NARAL president Nancy Keenan: "All the Democratic candidates running for president are pro-choice and will support and defend a woman's right to choose."

There are also calls for Mark Penn's head, and reports that Bill Clinton has been in contact with James Carville, and Carville has agreed to come on board if they get rid of Penn. (If Bill Clinton brings in his old guard to save Hillary's campaign, how can we pretend that she is anything more than a figurehead rather than a feminist?) Carville is good at what he does, and he knows how to crank up the machine. Is he good enough to bring Obama down?

No, I don't feel sorry for her display. If it were tears for a major crisis from any candidate, male or female, I would understand, but not from a campaign. You could expect this behaviour in private with family. I think it hurt her because are we to expect crying during a critical negotiation that she may have had some sleepless nights over?

As far as Penn, I voiced on another thread that having a pollster as campaign manager could be detrimental, so one can only believe that Carville has already been "unofficially" offering strategy anyway? To bring him on officially would only be a repeat of the same ole same ole Clinton machine strategy. Hillary needs to stand alone on this.

[scooterbug44]

Actually, it does keep SOME people from doing things if they are illegal. Yes, women can still find unsafe and financially draining ways to get an abortion if it's made illegal, but it would effect the number performed.

Big difference between outlawing a medical procedure that could save a life or prevent a great deal of pain and anguish and deciding whether or not you can smoke pot in your home (which IS legal in some places w/ a prescription).

[rapunzel]

I take it back...I have no sympathy, and Bill Clinton has just lost all of my respect. Disgusting.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/01/08/sot.clinton.obama.fairy.tale.cnn

I think Carville's come home.:puke:

[Mango]

I take it back...I have no sympathy, and Bill Clinton has just lost all of my respect. Disgusting.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/01/08/sot.clinton.obama.fairy.tale.cnn

I think Carville's come home.:puke:
I no see no pukier coming out of the emoticon? :idontno:Are you dry heaving now? :lol: Carville coming home? me thinks he's been there all along hiding in the Clinton New Network (CNN) file cabinets.

Go out and play and have funn like Jdarg said. :wave:

[Tootsie]

:wave: I love you, too. You may find this difficult to believe based on your guess as to my news sources, but I try to listen to all sides, and on average, listen to more npr, than talk radio. It is really difficult to hear much on the left side of things, by tuning into the radio. The shows are non-existent in our local area. NPR has a small bit of news from that angle. I try to catch the BBC news hour at night, but don't always listen in. Without cable, I don't get Fox, Fox News, CNN, nor MSNBC. I am limited to somewhat left CBS, NBC, ABC, and the mostly neutral PBS.

As for the bigot comment, I'm glad you clarified your statement. I am far from a bigot. My comment comes from the perspective that Obama is very likable as a person, and Hillary is very repulsive.

.

SJ! yes, Obama is likable. your personal view on Hillary is well known. But, I think "very repulsive" unfair, unless you clarify that this is your own feeling/opinion. Personally, I think you have a very strong, deep down dislike of the woman - like many. but, repulsive? I don't recall anyone saying such about a male candidate. well maybe nadar, but he doesn't count.

perhaps you are psychologically unable to handle your mysterious sexual attraction to Hil, an older woman in pastel suits with the noochies (with hair) to run for president, on top of having to accept that you will never have the chance to caress her soft face, kiss her pursed lips, and protect her forever in your arms. therefore, you lash out at the mere mention of her name. :lol: ever thought of that Mr. SJ???? (:lol: killing myself here).

and there is nothing wrong with a teary moment. we all have them. maybe its hard for some men to believe, but tears are not something you can always control when you feel very strongly about something.

I do agree with your comment about the "popularity" contest. Americans are going to jump on board with the front runners typically. Also, americans care a great deal about personality and charisma, and they must be able to identify/relate to the candidate in some personal way - if a candidate isn't personable then forget it (gore, kerry).

[Smiling JOe]

Actually, it does keep SOME people from doing things if they are illegal. Yes, women can still find unsafe and financially draining ways to get an abortion if it's made illegal, but it would effect the number performed.

Big difference between outlawing a medical procedure that could save a life or prevent a great deal of pain and anguish and deciding whether or not you can smoke pot in your home (which IS legal in some places w/ a prescription).
Smoking pot with a prescription may be legal, but as I understand it, as long as the Fed regulates doctors, the feds will revoke any license of a doctor prescribing pot. Smoking pot in the home is only part of the issue of smoking pot in the home. One often has to go into sketchy neighborhoods, risking his or her own life and safety to buy the pot. Not to mention, by possessing it in large enough quantities, they risk losing their possessions such as auto and home. You may not find the two comparable and I understand your reasons. I just disagree with the comparison not being accurate.

Here is a question for you. Bush, Bush Sr, and Ronald Reagan were/are against abortion, and many people voted against them because of their position on abortion. Abortion is still legal. So, what is the cause for alarm? Do you really find the issue to be important in the Presidential Campaign, since it has always been an issue in the past, but it continues to be legal?

[Smiling JOe]

Actually, it does keep SOME people from doing things if they are illegal. Yes, women can still find unsafe and financially draining ways to get an abortion if it's made illegal, but it would effect the number performed.

Big difference between outlawing a medical procedure that could save a life or prevent a great deal of pain and anguish and deciding whether or not you can smoke pot in your home (which IS legal in some places w/ a prescription).
Smoking pot with a prescription may be legal, but as I understand it, as long as the Fed regulates doctors, the feds will revoke any license of a doctor prescribing pot. Smoking pot in the home is only part of the issue of smoking pot in the home. One often has to go into sketchy neighborhoods, risking his or her own life and safety to buy the pot. Not to mention, by possessing it in large enough quantities, they risk losing their possessions such as auto and home. You may not find the two comparable and I understand your reasons. I just disagree with the comparison not being accurate.

Here is a question for you. Bush, Bush Sr, and Ronald Reagan were/are against abortion, and many people voted against them because of their position on abortion. Abortion is still legal. So, what is the cause for alarm? Do you really find the issue to be important in the Presidential Campaign, since it has always been an issue in the past, but it continues to be legal, no matter if Presidents are for or against it?

[scooterbug44]

I think it's an issue because of who may be appointed to the Supreme Court during the coming president's term. Showdown coming IMO.

Don't think it's THE issue as the economy and our foreign policy are much more important but it is an issue that affects a LOT of women. It's estimated that 1/3 of American women will have an abortion by age 45.

Yes, you may do illegal things and risk your safety to get pot, but it won't kill you or ruin your life if you DON'T get it, which is why I didn't think it was a good example.

[Fishfood]

I think her being a little emotional was a sign of true caring and compassion for this country. :wub:

We'll have to agree to disagree here. ;-)

[Tootsie]

I take it back...I have no sympathy, and Bill Clinton has just lost all of my respect. Disgusting.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/01/08/sot.clinton.obama.fairy.tale.cnn

I think Carville's come home.:puke:
:yikes:pretty poor. I'm disappointed. Was that Bill impersonating Bush? Or Bush dressed in Bill's clothes and hair? or did someone drag Bill from his deathbed?

[goofer44]

This should remind the country that Sen. Clinton is really the candidate of the STATUS QUO especially if Carville, Begala, and et al join the Clinton campaign. If they do join, it will be the death knell of her campaign, imo. CLINTON FATIGUE.

[hnooe]

Apparently not just yet....

[Gypsea]

SJ! yes, Obama is likable. your personal view on Hillary is well known. But, I think "very repulsive" unfair, unless you clarify that this is your own feeling/opinion. Personally, I think you have a very strong, deep down dislike of the woman - like many. but, repulsive? I don't recall anyone saying such about a male candidate. well maybe nadar, but he doesn't count.

perhaps you are psychologically unable to handle your mysterious sexual attraction to Hil, an older woman in pastel suits with the noochies (with hair) to run for president, on top of having to accept that you will never have the chance to caress her soft face, kiss her pursed lips, and protect her forever in your arms. therefore, you lash out at the mere mention of her name. :lol: ever thought of that Mr. SJ???? (:lol: killing myself here).

and there is nothing wrong with a teary moment. we all have them. maybe its hard for some men to believe, but tears are not something you can always control when you feel very strongly about something.

I do agree with your comment about the "popularity" contest. Americans are going to jump on board with the front runners typically. Also, americans care a great deal about personality and charisma, and they must be able to identify/relate to the candidate in some personal way - if a candidate isn't personable then forget it (gore, kerry).

Toots, I agree with you. I am amazed at the vehemence shown towards Hillary. In my opinion, ANY candidate will be better than who we have in the White House now. Can't wait for 1/20/2009!!!!

[NoHall]

SJ! yes, Obama is likable. your personal view on Hillary is well known. But, I think "very repulsive" unfair, unless you clarify that this is your own feeling/opinion. Personally, I think you have a very strong, deep down dislike of the woman - like many. but, repulsive? I don't recall anyone saying such about a male candidate. well maybe nadar, but he doesn't count.

I thought the word "repulsive" might be a tad strong, too..


perhaps you are psychologically unable to handle your mysterious sexual attraction to Hil, an older woman in pastel suits with the noochies (with hair) to run for president, on top of having to accept that you will never have the chance to caress her soft face, kiss her pursed lips, and protect her forever in your arms. therefore, you lash out at the mere mention of her name. :lol: ever thought of that Mr. SJ???? (:lol: killing myself here).



...until I read this! :puke:

:floor:

(I find her a tad repulsive myself, and I don't have a crush on her, either...)

[InletBchDweller]

Goofer, I hear only a sound bite of her breakdown today. It sounded very sad, like she has given up. Do you think it was just good acting, or do you think that is the signal for real, that she is giving up?

I think the tears were just an act. Obama has Oprahs 'sheeple' pulling for him and she made a sad attempt to try to gain some of the 'sheeple's' respect. I think Terry and Lenny did a great job, they should go to Hollywood and coach actors...:biggrin:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tootsie, you make me laugh....

[elgordoboy]

SJ! yes, Obama is likable. your personal view on Hillary is well known. But, I think "very repulsive" unfair, unless you clarify that this is your own feeling/opinion. Personally, I think you have a very strong, deep down dislike of the woman - like many. but, repulsive? I don't recall anyone saying such about a male candidate. well maybe nadar, but he doesn't count.

perhaps you are psychologically unable to handle your mysterious sexual attraction to Hil, an older woman in pastel suits with the noochies (with hair) to run for president, on top of having to accept that you will never have the chance to caress her soft face, kiss her pursed lips, and protect her forever in your arms. therefore, you lash out at the mere mention of her name. :lol: ever thought of that Mr. SJ???? (:lol: killing myself here).

and there is nothing wrong with a teary moment. we all have them. maybe its hard for some men to believe, but tears are not something you can always control when you feel very strongly about something.

I do agree with your comment about the "popularity" contest. Americans are going to jump on board with the front runners typically. Also, americans care a great deal about personality and charisma, and they must be able to identify/relate to the candidate in some personal way - if a candidate isn't personable then forget it (gore, kerry).
Good stuff :D

[rapunzel]

I think I was just called a sheeple. :blink:

I guess one has to expect a certain degree of incivility from certain quarters on the right.

In today's NY Times, Maureen Dowd wrote what I've been thinking far more articulately than I ever could...

The Obama campaign calculated that they had the women’s vote over the weekend but watched it slip away in the track of her tears.

At the Portsmouth cafe on Monday, talking to a group of mostly women, she blinked back her misty dread of where Obama’s “false hopes” will lead us — “I just don’t want to see us fall backwards,” she said tremulously — in time to smack her rival: “But some of us are right and some of us are wrong. Some of us are ready and some of us are not.”

There was a poignancy about the moment, seeing Hillary crack with exhaustion from decades of yearning to be the principal rather than the plus-one. But there was a whiff of Nixonian self-pity about her choking up. What was moving her so deeply was her recognition that the country was failing to grasp how much it needs her. In a weirdly narcissistic way, she was crying for us. But it was grimly typical of her that what finally made her break down was the prospect of losing.

As Spencer Tracy said to Katharine Hepburn in “Adam’s Rib,” “Here we go again, the old juice. Guaranteed heart melter. A few female tears, stronger than any acid.” http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/09/opinion/08dowd.html?ref=opinion

[Gypsea]

I think I was just called a sheeple. :blink:

I guess one has to expect a certain degree of incivility from certain quarters on the right.

In today's NY Times, Maureen Dowd wrote what I've been thinking far more articulately than I ever could...

The Obama campaign calculated that they had the women’s vote over the weekend but watched it slip away in the track of her tears.


At the Portsmouth cafe on Monday, talking to a group of mostly women, she blinked back her misty dread of where Obama’s “false hopes” will lead us — “I just don’t want to see us fall backwards,” she said tremulously — in time to smack her rival: “But some of us are right and some of us are wrong. Some of us are ready and some of us are not.”


There was a poignancy about the moment, seeing Hillary crack with exhaustion from decades of yearning to be the principal rather than the plus-one. But there was a whiff of Nixonian self-pity about her choking up. What was moving her so deeply was her recognition that the country was failing to grasp how much it needs her. In a weirdly narcissistic way, she was crying for us. But it was grimly typical of her that what finally made her break down was the prospect of losing.


As Spencer Tracy said to Katharine Hepburn in “Adam’s Rib,” “Here we go again, the old juice. Guaranteed heart melter. A few female tears, stronger than any acid.”http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/09/opinion/08dowd.html?ref=opinion

Don't worry ~ you are certainly NOT a sheeple! :wave:

[30A Skunkape]

Obama needs to get Oprah in front of a camera and have her cry while she describes his worthiness. Crying Oprah trumps crying Hillary any day of the week. I need a Kleenexhttp://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/sad/sad0004.gif (http://www.boredblogs.net)
http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/sad/sad0002.gif (http://www.boredblogs.net)
http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/sad/sad0017.gif (http://www.boredblogs.net) http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/sad/sad0049.gif (http://www.boredblogs.net)

[Mystified]

Some one who wants power that badly scares me!

Isn't that what they all want?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v23/ChattiPatti/SLAPPP.gif

[Tootsie]

I thought the word "repulsive" might be a tad strong, too..




...until I read this! :puke:

:floor:

(I find her a tad repulsive myself, and I don't have a crush on her, either...)

I was wondering if anybody ever saw this paragraph that had me rolling in the floor as I wrote it!!!:lol:

[Tootsie]

I think I was just called a sheeple. :blink:

I guess one has to expect a certain degree of incivility from certain quarters on the right.

In today's NY Times, Maureen Dowd wrote what I've been thinking far more articulately than I ever could...

The Obama campaign calculated that they had the women’s vote over the weekend but watched it slip away in the track of her tears.


At the Portsmouth cafe on Monday, talking to a group of mostly women, she blinked back her misty dread of where Obama’s “false hopes” will lead us — “I just don’t want to see us fall backwards,” she said tremulously — in time to smack her rival: “But some of us are right and some of us are wrong. Some of us are ready and some of us are not.”


There was a poignancy about the moment, seeing Hillary crack with exhaustion from decades of yearning to be the principal rather than the plus-one. But there was a whiff of Nixonian self-pity about her choking up. What was moving her so deeply was her recognition that the country was failing to grasp how much it needs her. In a weirdly narcissistic way, she was crying for us. But it was grimly typical of her that what finally made her break down was the prospect of losing.


As Spencer Tracy said to Katharine Hepburn in “Adam’s Rib,” “Here we go again, the old juice. Guaranteed heart melter. A few female tears, stronger than any acid.”http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/09/opinion/08dowd.html?ref=opinion


punzy: I can kinda sorta buy this. even though I still think the teary part was genuine. my goodness she's worked so hard, and then the question someone asked her was a "woman" question - "how do you do it and still stay positive, etc". I think she was just touched (on top of fatigue) that someone would ask a caring question like that. I liked your own description yesterday much better than above... and I think it is highly possible that all of it comes into play.

[InletBchDweller]

I think I was just called a sheeple. :blink:



absolutely not:wub:, I was not saying that people who support Obama are sheeple.

I was referring to the people who idolize Oprah and whatever she endorses - they do.
use this razor, they do
buy this book, they do
order these sheets, they do
support Obama, they do

I have nothing against Oprah, I admire her, but I dont think that b/c you are a movie star/celebrity figure that you should get into politics. How sad that some people want to vote with whom their "star" does.....

I may call you other things, but not a sheeple....;-):biggrin::wub:

[jdarg]

Sometimes I wish Oprah would run for President. Talk about a smart woman- she clearly knows how to run a business, thinks locally and globally, gets along with just about everybody, could "brand" the US back into a popular "product" (since everyone hates us now), knows how to delegate, knows to surround herself with smart people, has incredible fan/friend/family/corporate loyalty, admits her mistakes and works hard to fix them, and everything she touches is successful.

The rare criticism that you hear about her usually has a sour grapes tone. She is on a whole other level than other celebrities that endorse candidates- in other words, Chuck Norris, Barbara Streisand, etc. are not in the same ball park.

[Tootsie]

Sometimes I wish Oprah would run for President. Talk about a smart woman- she clearly knows how to run a business, thinks locally and globally, gets along with just about everybody, could "brand" the US back into a popular "product" (since everyone hates us now), knows how to delegate, knows to surround herself with smart people, has incredible fan/friend/family/corporate loyalty, admits her mistakes and works hard to fix them, and everything she touches is successful.

The rare criticism that you hear about her usually has a sour grapes tone. She is on a whole other level than other celebrities that endorse candidates- in other words, Chuck Norris, Barbara Streisand, etc. are not in the same ball park.

:clap:you do tell the truth jdarg. I rarely watch the show, but I do listen to the woman. She knows her stuff, wants to make a difference and certainly has made a difference.

[Mystified]

Has anyone seen this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AScoMhVZQnw

[InletBchDweller]

Sometimes I wish Oprah would run for President. Talk about a smart woman- she clearly knows how to run a business, thinks locally and globally, gets along with just about everybody, could "brand" the US back into a popular "product" (since everyone hates us now), knows how to delegate, knows to surround herself with smart people, has incredible fan/friend/family/corporate loyalty, admits her mistakes and works hard to fix them, and everything she touches is successful.

The rare criticism that you hear about her usually has a sour grapes tone. She is on a whole other level than other celebrities that endorse candidates- in other words, Chuck Norris, Barbara Streisand, etc. are not in the same ball park.

I agree that all of the above bolded things about Oprah are true- BUT does that make someone a good canidate for President? no - Heck I think that I have many of those qualities and JDarg you do as well.

We will have to disagree on the celebrity thing, I just dont think that celebrities should try to sway people just because of their exposure. I know the candidates use it but I personally dont think it is right. :wave:

[jdarg]

I agree that all of the above bolded things about Oprah are true- BUT does that make someone a good canidate for President? no - Heck I think that I have many of those qualities and JDarg you do as well.

We will have to disagree on the celebrity thing, I just dont think that celebrities should try to sway people just because of their exposure. I know the candidates use it but I personally dont think it is right. :wave:

If those aren't extremely important qualities for a Presidential to have, then what are? Successful people have these qualities. Many people also only consider the one person (the candidate) in all this- remember that the President is not alone. He/she will have to select a cabinet, and these are the people that are supposed to know the nuts and bolts of every issue- the "specialists." I am counting on our next president's ability to hire "specialists" with the qualities described above, in addition to knowing the job description for their particular cabinet position.

[Tootsie]

wonder why Oprah isn't running.. :idontno:

she may do better to endorse her candidate, and participate from behind the scenes.

[Mystified]

I can only take Oprah in small doses, like when there are beauty or fashion topics on.

What a beautiful avatar Tootsie! Is it Gustav Klimt?

[goofer44]

I can only take Oprah in small doses, like when there are beauty or fashion topics on.

What a beautiful avatar Tootsie! Is it Gustav Klimt?

I was wondering the same thing. Beautiful avatar.

[goofer44]

Punzy

Thanks for posting Maureen Dowd's column. I generally don't read her but the column reflected my feelings also.

[InletBchDweller]

If those aren't extremely important qualities for a Presidential to have, then what are? Successful people have these qualities. Many people also only consider the one person (the candidate) in all this- remember that the President is not alone. He/she will have to select a cabinet, and these are the people that are supposed to know the nuts and bolts of every issue- the "specialists." I am counting on our next president's ability to hire "specialists" with the qualities described above, in addition to knowing the job description for their particular cabinet position.

ok, I will reword....having those qualities are important in running for Presidency but having just those qualities are not enough. IMHO....:blush:

[jdarg]

ok, I will reword....having those qualities are important in running for Presidency but having just those qualities are not enough. IMHO....:blush:

I didn't say they were the only qualities!

[InletBchDweller]

I didn't say they were the only qualities!

oops, I guess that is what I get for drive by reading and posting...

you know, stir beans, post, wash from washer to dryer, post, draw bath water for little ibd, post, eat dinner, post....:biggrin: Anyone else do this????

[seacrestkristi]

I was wondering if anybody ever saw this paragraph that had me rolling in the floor as I wrote it!!!:lol:

:wave:Oh yeah, your work was not in vain, gull. After, I got done :floor: I read the the whole thing aloud againprobably twice, then I :rofl: some more. What a hoot, toots! Grayt shock quality. :rolling:That was a really deeeep thought. :clap:

[elgordoboy]

wonder why Oprah isn't running.. :idontno:

she may do better to endorse her candidate, and participate from behind the scenes.
Can't take the pay cut.:wave:

[NoHall]

I was wondering if anybody ever saw this paragraph that had me rolling in the floor as I wrote it!!!:lol:
I read every word of your posts, albeit with fear and trembling. I was laughing the whole time I was throwing up in my mouth.

I only cover my eyes when I get to your siggy. What happened to the Pope, anyway?

I didn't say they were the only qualities!

And where's Tapa Boca when we RULLY need it?!

Can't take the pay cut.:wave:
True dat, and I've always loved your siggy...

[elgordoboy]

I read every word of your posts, albeit with fear and trembling. I was laughing the whole time I was throwing up in my mouth.

I only cover my eyes when I get to your siggy. What happened to the Pope, anyway?



And where's Tapa Boca when we RULLY need it?!


True dat, and I've always loved your siggy...
TY,TY :wave:

[Smiling JOe]

I was wondering if anybody ever saw this paragraph that had me rolling in the floor as I wrote it!!!:lol:
I don't know how I missed that paragraph before. Thanks to Gypsea for quoting you on it. :floor: My sexual desires for Sen. Clinton are now out in the open. :blush: :floor:

[Smiling JOe]

Sometimes I wish Oprah would run for President. Talk about a smart woman- she clearly knows how to run a business, thinks locally and globally, gets along with just about everybody, could "brand" the US back into a popular "product" (since everyone hates us now), knows how to delegate, knows to surround herself with smart people, has incredible fan/friend/family/corporate loyalty, admits her mistakes and works hard to fix them, and everything she touches is successful.

The rare criticism that you hear about her usually has a sour grapes tone. She is on a whole other level than other celebrities that endorse candidates- in other words, Chuck Norris, Barbara Streisand, etc. are not in the same ball park.

Did you see the documentary on Oprah, recently being aired on FL public TV, ch 56? It goes back to her roots, and is quite amazing. I don't watch the show, but I used to watch it. I stand by my personal thoughts that Hillary repulses me. Just hearing her voice, makes me cringe, like when someone scrapes their fingernails down the chalkboard. Oprah is just the opposite for me. I enjoy listening to her calm, caring voice.

[NoHall]

I don't know how I missed that paragraph before. Thanks to Gypsea for quoting you on it. :floor: My sexual desires for Sen. Clinton are now out in the open. :blush: :floor:
repression is an ugly thing...;-)

[Tootsie]

I can only take Oprah in small doses, like when there are beauty or fashion topics on.

What a beautiful avatar Tootsie! Is it Gustav Klimt?

yes! thanks.

I don't know how I missed that paragraph before. Thanks to Gypsea for quoting you on it. :floor: My sexual desires for Sen. Clinton are now out in the open. :blush: :floor:
and I laughed so hard while typing it all just for you!

[Mystified]

Off subject for a quick sec....Only to say that all of your dogs are beautiful!

[Gypsea]

I don't know how I missed that paragraph before. Thanks to Gypsea for quoting you on it. :floor: My sexual desires for Sen. Clinton are now out in the open. :blush: :floor:

Maybe y'all can rent out the Lincoln bedroom!

[seacrestkristi]

I don't know how I missed that paragraph before. Thanks to Gypsea for quoting you on it. :floor: My sexual desires for Sen. Clinton are now out in the open. :blush: :floor:

repression is an ugly thing...;-)

yes! thanks.


and I laughed so hard while typing it all just for you!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::r ofl::rofl:

[Tootsie]

Maybe y'all can rent out the Lincoln bedroom!
:clap::floor::lol::funn:

[Smiling JOe]

http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/1710/specialho9.jpg

Unfortunately, Hillary probably wouldn't go for me. She's too much in love with Bill.

[Smiling JOe]

http://www.sexysatan.com/jokepics/2224.jpg

This photo is in terrible taste for KFC, but I cannot resist laughing and sharing.

[Smiling JOe]

http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/j/msnbc/Sections/Newsweek/Components/Photos/Mag/061218_Issue/061209_ClintonObama_vl.widec.jpg

[NoHall]

http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/1710/specialho9.jpg

Unfortunately, Hillary probably wouldn't go for me. She's too much in love with Bill.

Why does Tipper have a Hillary button?

SJ, your crush on Hillary is getting a little over the top. You're not going to post your entire stash of secret pictures, are you?

[Rita]

Why does Tipper have a Hillary button?

SJ, your crush on Hillary is getting a little over the top. You're not going to post your entire stash of secret pictures, are you?

I also wondered that ! hmmm... and who is Bill eyeing??? :lol:


.

[Gypsea]

http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/1710/specialho9.jpg

Unfortunately, Hillary probably wouldn't go for me. She's too much in love with Bill.

Who knows ~ a guy could get lucky!!!! ;-)

[Gypsea]

http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/1710/specialho9.jpg

Unfortunately, Hillary probably wouldn't go for me. She's too much in love with Bill.

Speaking of thighs, we know why you posted this pic! You can't fool us! :funn:

[Mystified]

Where does one get all those cool animated smileys?

[goofer44]

http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/j/msnbc/Sections/Newsweek/Components/Photos/Mag/061218_Issue/061209_ClintonObama_vl.widec.jpg

SJ

What a cool picture. Where do you find these things ??? I would love to find a bigger image and in my travels get Hillary and Barack to sign it. Al Gore signed a NEWSWEEK cover for me in 2001 which had him and Bush as caricatures boxing. It wasd a funny cover. Gore was very gracious about signing it.

[Smiling JOe]

They are on the internet, Goofer. Hoping to find some seductive pics of Hillary for Tootsie, I googled, "sexy Hillary Clinton" then clicked on images, and that one came up. I guess that is about as sexy as she gets.

[Tootsie]

They are on the internet, Goofer. Hoping to find some seductive pics of Hillary for Tootsie, I googled, "sexy Hillary Clinton" then clicked on images, and that one came up. I guess that is about as sexy as she gets.

I did the same google a few days ago. nothing.:lol:

[NoHall]

They are on the internet, Goofer. Hoping to find some seductive pics of Hillary for Tootsie, I googled, "sexy Hillary Clinton" then clicked on images, and that one came up. I guess that is about as sexy as she gets.

I almost didn't recognize her in a skirt...:blink: