Who is, this man??? Why does he want to save, my country?

[Diane4145]

I have to admit, that I'm not easily impressed with anything, or anyone!:biggrin: I really love the fact that on this board, we express our "FREEDOM OF SPEECH", so, here's mine!This man, has my attention!:clap: If you're concerned about the state of your country, where it is, or seems to be going, you need this! http://www.ronpaulnation.com/tv.html

[Miss Kitty]

It's a dance dance revolution!

[Smiling JOe]

I'm really scared of any candidate who uses their name, followed by the word, "nation." Reminds me too much of a monarchy.

[30A Skunkape]

I'm really scared of any candidate who uses their name, followed by the word, "nation." Reminds me too much of a monarchy.

Or Alabama's coach:biggrin:

[Diane4145]

Be nice, Skunky!:funn:Or Alabama's coach:biggrin:

[hnooe]

I have to admit, that I'm not easily impressed with anything, or anyone!:biggrin: I really love the fact that on this board, we express our "FREEDOM OF SPEECH", so, here's mine!This man, has my attention!:clap: If you're concerned about the state of your country, where it is, or seems to be going, you need this! http://www.ronpaulnation.com/tv.html

He very much has my attention too--and, he is the only Republican candidate that this left leaning, life long, Democrat would vote for...and I know I speak for other Democrats as well!

[kathydwells]

Or Alabama's coach:biggrin:

YOU CAN BITE ME TOO!!!!!!!!!! :bang:This has not been a good day for me. Have some sympathy will ya??????? ;-)

[30abob]

My wife and I compliment each other on the subject of Ron Paul...

I'm cynical about his chances, so I will vote for him in the primary (had to change my registration to do so in the Sunshine state) knowing that he will most likely never win the nomination from a major party.

My wife is a conspiracy theorist and avid supporter (who goes to "meet up" groups, marches in parades, and holds signs and waves at cars) that believes she's really making a difference in other peoples opinions.

...on second thought maybe we don't compliment each other at all.:confused:

[wrobert]

He very much has my attention too--and, he is the only Republican candidate that this left leaning, life long, Democrat would vote for...and I know I speak for other Democrats as well!


That is an interesting comment. Because this guy is more conservative then just about........everyone. What exactly is it that a left leaning Democrat finds that they like about this small government, fewer taxes, more personal responsibility Republican?

[sowalgayboi]

I'm still not convinced as a life long democrat. Although he seems to be the only candidate who really speaks common sense I still don't trust a republican.

[wrobert]

I'm still not convinced as a life long democrat. Although he seems to be the only candidate who really speaks common sense I still don't trust a republican.

He is really a Libertarian. So far he has not stated that he would endorse the winner of the Republican primary. He wants the platform that the party is providing, but does not necessarily supportive of the party's choice, if it is not him.

[sowalgayboi]

He is really a Libertarian. So far he has not stated that he would endorse the winner of the Republican primary. He wants the platform that the party is providing, but does not necessarily supportive of the party's choice, if it is not him.

Thank you for the correction. I forgot that he is using the republican party for a better chance at getting elected.

[30abob]

He is really a Libertarian. So far he has not stated that he would endorse the winner of the Republican primary. He wants the platform that the party is providing, but does not necessarily supportive of the party's choice, if it is not him.

I think he HAS answered this question directly (at least in the clip I saw from one of the previous debates), by saying that he would NOT support the nominee of the Republican party unless that nominee's positions were similar to his own - while acknowledging that none currently did. He said this without apology to the party. This commitment of purpose/values is quite frankly what so many people find appealing about him, I know I do.

If you don't think that the Republican party has serious problems consider this:

I'm a 38 year old white male
Married to the same woman for almost 18 years
Have four children
Live in the South (Georgia until recently)
My parents are from the "builder" generation and have been married for 45 years
Have a management position with a large company
Owned a small business for 3 years
WAS an associate pastor for 3 years prior to that
I have voted for the Republican presidential candidate for the past 20 yearsAND I DON"T FEEL LIKE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY POSITIONS REPRESENT ME OR MY IDEALS! Not that the Democrats positions appeal to me either.

The last two presidential election cycles have demonstrated that America is pretty evenly divided when given a choice between the two conventional party lines. What will happen when someone like Ron Paul appeals to those on both sides of convention? I don't know exactly but it ought to be interesting!

By the way I've considered my political views to be most closely aligned with the Libertarian party for the past 3 years.

[rehdrahk]

My wife and I compliment each other on the subject of Ron Paul...

I'm cynical about his chances, so I will vote for him in the primary (had to change my registration to do so in the Sunshine state) knowing that he will most likely never win the nomination from a major party.

My wife is a conspiracy theorist and avid supporter (who goes to "meet up" groups, marches in parades, and holds signs and waves at cars) that believes she's really making a difference in other peoples opinions.

...on second thought maybe we don't compliment each other at all.:confused:

Saw the float last night and held up my sign to support the cause.

I surely hope that everyone starts to become politically energized in the next few weeks. It is really important to know that Florida is a closed state, therefore you must be registered for the party you wish to vote for in the primaries ... I too changed from independent to republican to cast my first ever primary vote for Ron Paul.

It is nice to see that people are starting to realize that RP is not a a fringe candidate and that if you actually take the time to go on you tube and watch his videos ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG2PUZoukfA ), you too may see why he drawing support from such a wide fan base :) (Soldiers, Repubs, Indpens, Democs, Disfranchised voters ... and overall just a whole array of freedom and truth seeking Americans.

[wrobert]

[quote=30abob;323093]I think he HAS answered this question directly (at least in the clip I saw from one of the previous debates), by saying that he would NOT support the nominee of the Republican party unless that nominee's positions were similar to his own - while acknowledging that none currently did. He said this without apology to the party. [quote]


Then run as an independent. Don't get me wrong. The system is flawed. He has to use the Republican Party to be able to get the media coverage through the debates and events. But, within the system, there are some, I guess I would say unwritten rules or protocols. And one of them is no matter how many candidates that you have for a position, once the party chooses one, then we all come together and get that person elected.

As for Ron Paul, I agree with a lot of what he says, mainly we need to quit trying to please everyone. Free markets do work if allowed too. We spend way too much money trying to make our friends happy. Politricks, as Joe calls them are everywhere.

But how different is someone that knowingly is taking advantage of the system while trying to be a candidate of character?

[wrobert]

I'm a 38 year old white male
Married to the same woman for almost 18 years
Have four children
Live in the South (Georgia until recently)
My parents are from the "builder" generation and have been married for 45 years
Have a management position with a large company
Owned a small business for 3 years
WAS an associate pastor for 3 years prior to that
I have voted for the Republican presidential candidate for the past 20 yearsAND I DON"T FEEL LIKE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY POSITIONS REPRESENT ME OR MY IDEALS! Not that the Democrats positions appeal to me either.

The last two presidential election cycles have demonstrated that America is pretty evenly divided when given a choice between the two conventional party lines. What will happen when someone like Ron Paul appeals to those on both sides of convention? I don't know exactly but it ought to be interesting!

By the way I've considered my political views to be most closely aligned with the Libertarian party for the past 3 years.

We have quite a bit in common and I too feel your pain. I have struggled with the direction the Republican party is going for several years. I try to keep my focus on local politics, but even that is getting hard to do with some of the things that local Republicans are doing. I seem to identify more with libertarian views, especially when it comes to social issues, then anything else. But I keep thinking that maybe the Republicans will wake up and realize that people really want conservative government. But then I probably am living in my own little dream world.

I can tell you this. You need to get involved. Be it Republican or Democrat, that, I am convinced is the key. Right now we have no one coming to the local Republican club meetings or executive committee meetings speaking for Ron Paul. I have contacted all of the Presidential candidates and asked them to send people to speak, to no avail. Only Mitt Romney came to the regional dinner that was recently held. People are craving information and if Ron Paul were to win Walton County, I think it would send a serious wake up message to the locally elected officials. Just my thoughts.

[Smiling JOe]

WaltonGOP, I don't think Ron Paul is trying to work the system. Rather, I think that his political thoughts align more with what has traditionally been the Republican Party, which has now shifted to center. If anyone is trying to work the system, it is all of the other heavy spending, large gov't candidates running under the guise of being Republicans. Want to get some people to show up at Republican mtgs? Get the crooks, large-govt thinking people to stop calling themselves Republicans, out of office.

[NoHall]

I liked the music.

[wrobert]

WaltonGOP, I don't think Ron Paul is trying to work the system. Rather, I think that his political thoughts align more with what has traditionally been the Republican Party, which has now shifted to center. If anyone is trying to work the system, it is all of the other heavy spending, large gov't candidates running under the guise of being Republicans. Want to get some people to show up at Republican mtgs? Get the crooks, large-govt thinking people to stop calling themselves Republicans, out of office.


Don't I wish. There should be some sort of a program where you could actually kick someone out. But they say they want a big tent and they want everyone in it. I realize everyone does not believe as I do, I sort of like being by myself from time to time.

[Smiling JOe]

I just remembered one other thing that has to happen to get people to show up at the GOP mtgs. You have to take away people's TVs, alcohol and firearms. Do that, and I guarantee your party's success.

[rehdrahk]

WaltonGOP, I don't think Ron Paul is trying to work the system. Rather, I think that his political thoughts align more with what has traditionally been the Republican Party, which has now shifted to center. If anyone is trying to work the system, it is all of the other heavy spending, large gov't candidates running under the guise of being Republicans. Want to get some people to show up at Republican mtgs? Get the crooks, large-govt thinking people to stop calling themselves Republicans, out of office.

I could not agree with Joe more ... I think he hit the nail square on it's head!

I pledge allegiance to the Flag
of the United States of America,
and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation under God, indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.

* Also, the ideas of a Republic (an) and the ideas of Liberty (arian) are not so different.

* Warning: this may be considered controversial.

[Little Fish]

30aBob/WaltonGOP:

I share some of your concerns and have become disillusioned with the state of politics in this nation. IMO, the Republican Party will lose this round (which is probably what they deserve given the past few years of miserable performance). Personally, I remain ambivalent to the outcome of the Election and will do my best to navigate whatever may come my way.

Little Fish

[wrobert]

I just remembered one other thing that has to happen to get people to show up at the GOP mtgs. You have to take away people's TVs, alcohol and firearms. Do that, and I guarantee your party's success.

Firearms? Are you nutz? If you take away our guns we would no longer be Republicans. lol!

[Smiling JOe]

Oh, is that the only recognizable common characteristic of Republicans these days? You could probably get plenty of people by just taking away the TVs and alcohol. You can keep the firearms.

[ckhagen]

Just for the record... for those who say Ron Paul isn't a Republican. He's been a Republican congressman for TEN terms. Elected as a Republican, in Texas for that matter.

Also, there is a reason that many Ron Paul supporters don't attend the local meetings. First of all a large percentage of them are disenfranchised voters who haven't voted in years because they were so disgusted with the choices. Also, some of us are actually somewhat discouraged about attending the meetings because in GOP meetings all over this country, once you get "labeled" a Ron Paul supporter, your opinion no longer counts and you have zero chances of being elected to anything, including a delegate.

FWIW, I spent much time working at the SoWal Rep HQ during the 2004 election. So I'm not one of those "new" voters. And the reason I've not been able to attend GOP meetings in this county is because I have two toddlers and a husband who works nights. Last I checked, it wasn't cool to bring kidlets to political meetings. I'll show up sometime soon though. I just probably won't tell anyone I'm a Ron Paul supporter ;)

[ckhagen]

Oh and we had a Ron Paul meetup tonight. Eight new (never met 'em before) members showed up. All from SoWal :D

[wrobert]

Oh and we had a Ron Paul meetup tonight. Eight new (never met 'em before) members showed up. All from SoWal :D


And where are you advertising this? I have been looking for one for months. I even stop people on the street that wear Ron Paul T-shirts and ask but so far no luck.

[wrobert]

Just for the record... for those who say Ron Paul isn't a Republican. He's been a Republican congressman for TEN terms. Elected as a Republican, in Texas for that matter.

Also, there is a reason that many Ron Paul supporters don't attend the local meetings. First of all a large percentage of them are disenfranchised voters who haven't voted in years because they were so disgusted with the choices. Also, some of us are actually somewhat discouraged about attending the meetings because in GOP meetings all over this country, once you get "labeled" a Ron Paul supporter, your opinion no longer counts and you have zero chances of being elected to anything, including a delegate.

FWIW, I spent much time working at the So Walton Rep HQ during the 2004 election. So I'm not one of those "new" voters. And the reason I've not been able to attend GOP meetings in this county is because I have two toddlers and a husband who works nights. Last I checked, it wasn't cool to bring kidlets to political meetings. I'll show up sometime soon though. I just probably won't tell anyone I'm a Ron Paul supporter ;)


Ron Paul was the 1988 Libertarian Presidential candidate. So he must have been a libertarian at that time.

I also understand that Texas allows you to run for dual offices. So he is also running for reelection at the same time he is running for President. I guess he is not one that wishes to go 'all in'.

But I would still love to hear more about him from reasonable people. I tried to talk to some of his supporters at the debate in Orlando and those people were over the top. I have done some research on the internet but all I seem to find are the extreme for and against web sites. His site is okay but I want real people to tell me why I should vote for Paul.

[jdarg]

Ron Paul was the 1988 Libertarian Presidential candidate. So he must have been a libertarian at that time.

I also understand that Texas allows you to run for dual offices. So he is also running for reelection at the same time he is running for President. I guess he is not one that wishes to go 'all in'.

But I would still love to hear more about him from reasonable people. I tried to talk to some of his supporters at the debate in Orlando and those people were over the top. I have done some research on the internet but all I seem to find are the extreme for and against web sites. His site is okay but I want real people to tell me why I should vote for Paul.

Yes thank you. I don't know if you were SoWalling when someone kept up an insane Ron Paul thread campaign- mostly just repeating "Vote Ron Paul" over and over. We tried to watch his youtube videos, we tried to understand, and while parts of his message sound good (but I can't bear to dig any deeper than his ultra conservative views on reproductive choice), his messengers are, well, a little out there. He appears to be an easy bandwagon- this internet campaign style is appealing and easy for many people, and of course we all want to get out of Iraq ASAP.

[User 3]

But I would still love to hear more about him from reasonable people. I tried to talk to some of his supporters at the debate in Orlando and those people were over the top. I have done some research on the internet but all I seem to find are the extreme for and against web sites. His site is okay but I want real people to tell me why I should vote for Paul.

Go to meetup.com and search for "Ron Paul South Walton County". The group ckhagen is referring to is the top group listed.

[rehdrahk]

While you are at meetup.com, also check out the other groups ... there is one for Okaloosa, that I am a member of, that is steadily growing and Pensacola has it going on.

There is a rumor that the Pensacola group raised enough money to buy some billboards in their area .... pretty sweet :)

[ckhagen]

And where are you advertising this? I have been looking for one for months. I even stop people on the street that wear Ron Paul T-shirts and ask but so far no luck.

We do ;)
If you visit Ron Paul's website at www.ronpaul2008.com (http://www.ronpaul2008.com) and go to "Get Involved" there's a link to www.meetup.com (http://www.meetup.com) on there. There are... quote... 74,254 Members in 1,317 Meetup Groups, 7,810 waiting for a Meetup Group. Ron Paul has more members of Meetup groups than all the other candidates, combined.

Our Walton groups are really just getting started as most of us in Walton have been participating in the much larger Okaloosa group.

Ron Paul was the 1988 Libertarian Presidential candidate. So he must have been a libertarian at that time.

Well, if we're going to go by that standard, then Guiliani is still a Dem and Mitt would definitely be pro-choice. :D


I also understand that Texas allows you to run for dual offices. So he is also running for reelection at the same time he is running for President. I guess he is not one that wishes to go 'all in'.

Have you ever met his constituents in Texas? I have, they would skin him alive if he sold them out for a run for the Presidency. The rule is there, he's taking advantage of it. Hillary isn't giving up her Senatorial seat last I checked, (not that I keep up with her or anything like that, lol).


But I would still love to hear more about him from reasonable people. I tried to talk to some of his supporters at the debate in Orlando and those people were over the top. I have done some research on the internet but all I seem to find are the extreme for and against web sites. His site is okay but I want real people to tell me why I should vote for Paul.

I don't think any of us from the area made it to the Orlando debate. Plenty of us went to St. Pete, but none of us were able to get tickets to the debate even though we registered for tickets several months in advance. :idontno: We did attend the Florida straw poll and we were aghast at what happened with Mitt buying the hundreds of tickets and his sons handing them out of trash bags in stacks of 40.

That aside, because I do know that straw polls are run that way, just never expected to see it live and in person that bad. We attended a debate watching party at a theater a few blocks from the debate theater. There were 1500 people there. Ron gave a fantastic speech and we were positively thrilled that we went even if we didn't get tickets to the debate.

If you want to learn about his views on the issues... have you visited the campaign website? www.ronpaul2008.com (http://www.ronpaul2008.com) Click on 'Issues' a the top and he's got quite a list covered. If you want to know more beyond that, go to www.ronpaullibrary.com (http://www.ronpaullibrary.com). All of his writings are archived there. Or really, just ask me a question. Usually someone in the group knows where you can find Ron Paul's answer.

[ckhagen]

There is a rumor that the Pensacola group raised enough money to buy some billboards in their area .... pretty sweet :)

Yeah and we've put up 4 (going on 5 or 6?) LED billboard spots in Okaloosa!

[wrobert]

Go to meetup.com and search for "Ron Paul South Walton County". The group ckhagen is referring to is the top group listed.


See I guess that was my problem. I searched for the postal communities and not the whole county.

[wrobert]

We do ;)
If you visit Ron Paul's website at www.ronpaul2008.com (http://www.ronpaul2008.com) and go to "Get Involved" there's a link to www.meetup.com (http://www.meetup.com) on there. There are... quote... 74,254 Members in 1,317 Meetup Groups, 7,810 waiting for a Meetup Group. Ron Paul has more members of Meetup groups than all the other candidates, combined.

Our Walton groups are really just getting started as most of us in Walton have been participating in the much larger Okaloosa group.



Well, if we're going to go by that standard, then Guiliani is still a Dem and Mitt would definitely be pro-choice. :D



Have you ever met his constituents in Texas? I have, they would skin him alive if he sold them out for a run for the Presidency. The rule is there, he's taking advantage of it. Hillary isn't giving up her Senatorial seat last I checked, (not that I keep up with her or anything like that, lol).



I don't think any of us from the area made it to the Orlando debate. Plenty of us went to St. Pete, but none of us were able to get tickets to the debate even though we registered for tickets several months in advance. :idontno: We did attend the Florida straw poll and we were aghast at what happened with Mitt buying the hundreds of tickets and his sons handing them out of trash bags in stacks of 40.

That aside, because I do know that straw polls are run that way, just never expected to see it live and in person that bad. We attended a debate watching party at a theater a few blocks from the debate theater. There were 1500 people there. Ron gave a fantastic speech and we were positively thrilled that we went even if we didn't get tickets to the debate.

If you want to learn about his views on the issues... have you visited the campaign website? www.ronpaul2008.com (http://www.ronpaul2008.com) Click on 'Issues' a the top and he's got quite a list covered. If you want to know more beyond that, go to www.ronpaullibrary.com (http://www.ronpaullibrary.com). All of his writings are archived there. Or really, just ask me a question. Usually someone in the group knows where you can find Ron Paul's answer.


Are YOU going to tell me why YOU think I should vote for Ron Paul? I already did that other stuff but I have yet to hear an argument from a person that is committed to his campaign.

[CayceCol]

de-lurking... hi!

GOP, I am a 20-something, former... Nader-voter... that has been raised as a disenfranchised hippie child of the Reagan era. I am a new mom who is over-taxed, under-insured and seeking real change.

I support Ron Paul because I am tired of the "Washington machine" - I am tired of my liberties being compromised - The things I abhor the most are the current conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan and the tired justifications supporting these conflicts.

Among many other things, Dr. Paul has offered coherent platforms on leaving Iraq, getting rid of the income tax and limiting governmental spending. He has promised to lower barriers to efficent health care. He has identified and spoken out against the current administrations' threat to Americans' civil libeties.



How can you not love this guy?!

[ckhagen]

Are YOU going to tell me why YOU think I should vote for Ron Paul? I already did that other stuff but I have yet to hear an argument from a person that is committed to his campaign.

Sure.
Hm, where do I start?

Well, I guess one of the issues closest to home for me is his my personal liberties especially regarding healthcare choice. I staunchly oppose forced vaccinations (family history of severe reactions) for one and he agrees. I personally favor his opposition to CODEX compliance and restrictions on our nutritional supplements. And of course, since I was homeschooled from grades K-12, I have to applaud his homeschooling support and his commitment to keep the Federal government (DoE) out of homeschooling and the idea of equal consideration for scholarships for HS'd students.

That stuff is small potatoes though. What it all comes down to is his commitment to reducing the size of the Federal government, reducing spending drasticly, reducing taxes (ie, discontinuing the Federal Income Tax and NOT replacing it with sales tax!)... reduce, reduce, reduce.

Of course, I also agree with his Iraq war views. And his Iran views (which appear to have been right all along).

His economic policies are so different from everyone else's and make a lot of sense. The dollar is a disaster, he seems to be the only one who has a real solution.

Really though, there are a thousand other issues and those may be more important to you than the ones that are important to me. The best thing about him is his record. You know exactly what he stands for because he sticks with what he believes in and his record reflects it.

Cayce pretty much summed it up by saying we're fed up with the "Washington Machine".

[Smiling JOe]

Some quotes from Wikipedia, re: Ron Paul:

"Special interests have replaced the concern that the Founders had for general welfare. Vote trading is seen as good politics. The errand-boy mentality is ordinary, the defender of liberty is seen as bizarre. It's difficult for one who loves true liberty and utterly detests the power of the state to come to Washington for a period of time and not leave a true cynic." -- Ron Paul

2008 campaign chair Kent Snyder first worked for (Ron)Paul on the 1988 campaign—when U.S. Senator John McCain told him, "You're working for the most honest man in Congress."

"Unlike many political candidates, Paul receives the overwhelming majority of his campaign contributions from individuals.[91] In 2005 and 2006, individuals contributed 96.8% of the funds he raised. Federal Election Commission (FEC) records show Paul accepts money from political action committees (PAC's), although much less than most of his counterparts in Congress. Paul received PAC money during the 1998 (5.7%), 2000 (4.5%), 2002 (1.8%), 2004 (5.8%), and 2006 (2.1%) Congressional electoral cycles.[92] In a special report, the group Clean Up Washington listed Paul as taking the seventh-lowest amount of PAC money of all House members, as well as accepting one of the lowest amounts of lobbyist money and taking the fourth-highest percentage of contributions from small donors. Their data studied contributions from the 2000 election cycle to midway through 2006.[93] Of the 2008 Republican presidential candidates, he has accepted the lowest percentage of PAC money."

Actions in Congress
"Paul was on a bipartisan coalition of 17 members of Congress that sued President Bill Clinton in 1999 over his conduct of the Kosovo war. They accused Clinton of failing to inform Congress of the action's status within 48 hours as required by WPR, and of failing to obtain Congressional declaration of war as specifically required in the Constitution. Congress had voted 427–2 against a declaration of war with Yugoslavia, and had voted to deny support for the air campaign in Kosovo. A federal judge dismissed the lawsuit, ruling that since Congress had voted for funding after Clinton had actively engaged troops in the war with Kosovo, legislators had sent a confusing message about whether they approved of the war. Paul said that the judge's decision attempted to circumvent the Constitution and to authorize the president to conduct a war without approval from Congress."

****************

I will say this for the man, he has one fascinating background which seems to be filled with much experience in many aspects.

[wrobert]

Sure.

[QUOTE]That stuff is small potatoes though. What it all comes down to is his commitment to reducing the size of the Federal government, reducing spending drasticly, reducing taxes (ie, discontinuing the Federal Income Tax and NOT replacing it with sales tax!)... reduce, reduce, reduce.

Then why would a left leaning, liberal democrat be supporting him?


His economic policies are so different from everyone else's and make a lot of sense. The dollar is a disaster, he seems to be the only one who has a real solution.

What is his solution?


Also could you explain the problem with CODEX? I did some reading and again I must be missing something.

[Smiling JOe]

[quote=ckhagen;324669]Sure.



Then why would a left leaning, liberal democrat be supporting him?




What is his solution?


Also could you explain the problem with CODEX? I did some reading and again I must be missing something.Just a guess, but maybe that democrat wants Paul to win, because he is the only Rep who is against the war. :idontno: Or, maybe they want him to take votes away from an electable candidate, sending the Paul voters who like the no-war stuff over to the dems. Or, maybe they just haven't looked at Ron Paul's history of wanting a very limited, small Federal Gov't. Paul is also in favor of giving much of the Fed power back to the States, as the founding fathers wanted. This would include any decisions on gay marriage and abortion. That alone should be enough to outweigh his drive for small Fed Gov't (which is very anti-Dem).

[wrobert]

de-lurking... hi!

GOP, I am a 20-something, former... Nader-voter... that has been raised as a disenfranchised hippie child of the Reagan era. I am a new mom who is over-taxed, under-insured and seeking real change.

I support Ron Paul because I am tired of the "Washington machine" - I am tired of my liberties being compromised - The things I abhor the most are the current conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan and the tired justifications supporting these conflicts.

Among many other things, Dr. Paul has offered coherent platforms on leaving Iraq, getting rid of the income tax and limiting governmental spending. He has promised to lower barriers to efficent health care. He has identified and spoken out against the current administrations' threat to Americans' civil libeties.

How can you not love this guy?!

There are quite a few of his ideas that I think are great.

I am not sure how being an isolationist would work.

How is he going to lower barriers to healthcare?

If he gets rid of the income tax and does not believe in a sales tax, how are the necessities going to be funded?

I certainly agree with him on the civil liberty position. I seem to be in the minority among my Republican friends but I hate the amount of stuff I have to go through now just to open a bank account.

[jdarg]

I am not in favor of returning federal powers to the states- we are not the same nation we were when the founding fathers put their ideas to paper. If most decisions were made at state level, it would be very divisive, not to mention confusing.

And would this lead to "designer" states? You could choose your home state based on the laws and climate of that state regarding your taxes, healthcare, religious freedoms, etc.

[ckhagen]

Then why would a left leaning, liberal democrat be supporting him?


Because maybe not everyone who classifies themselves as a "liberal" is a liberal leaning to socialism? Maybe they call themselves a liberal because they confuse it or meld it with (or don't understand it) a desire for personal liberty (especially social issues)?



What is his solution?

Well first, stop spending money we can't afford to be spending (ie, war and occupation). Then maybe we can stop printing money that isn't hardly worth the paper it's printed on. And stop borrowing from China and start paying them back!
Then in the future...
Introducing competing currency... reducing the control of the central bank (Federal Reserve). And ideally returning us to a gold standard, which would obviously not take place any time soon.


Also could you explain the problem with CODEX? I did some reading and again I must be missing something.

Codex compliance requires that vitamins and minerals have a determined "upper safe limit" of consumption based on the "risk assessment protocols" determined by Codex with consumption levels being monitored by a doctor's prescription. This is justified since vitamins are classified as Codex toxins. The net result is an end-around the 1994 Dietary Supplement Health & Education Act that was to protect these freedoms.

Do we really want the WTO determining what they think is safe for US consumers? Do you really want to have to get a prescription for some Vitamin C? Ask any educated Herbalist, Natropath, or HFS owner and they're almost always vehemently against us surrendering our sovereignty in this way, all in the name of "free trade".

Here's the deal with CODEX in 7 points: http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/index.php?page_id=157

The issue of eliminating the income tax and not replacing it is actually not that complicated. Based on the amount of money that the income tax brings in, if we eliminated it, we would be left with the same amount of money spent in the year 2000 budget. So... should he have his way, ending the war for example, we would be nearly back at that level of spending/income right there.

And, I'm not sure how many time the guy has to say it but just for repeating sake "I'm not an isolationist... I'm a non-interventionist!"
I think that's very clear. Would an isolationist lift the embargo and sanctions on Cuba and Iran? Would they be very vocal about trading and diplomacy? Just because he doesn't want to go blowing up this country, invading that one, and occupying the rest, doesn't mean he wants to isolate us. I guess you have to be all on board with pre-emptive war and global occupation in order to not be labeled an isolationist these days?

And I don't know, but I think we would probably feel a little threatened if Saudi Arabia opened a base in Pace. With the amount of money we owe China, I wouldn't doubt they start wanting to occupy us someday. :idontno:

[Dune-AHH]

I am not in favor of returning federal powers to the states- we are not the same nation we were when the founding fathers put their ideas to paper. If most decisions were made at state level, it would be very divisive, not to mention confusing.

And would this lead to "designer" states? You could choose your home state based on the laws and climate of that state regarding your taxes, healthcare, religious freedoms, etc.

:idontno: What would be so bad about that?

It seems to me, we over-empower the single office of President and then ultimately end up feeling disenfranchised....unable to be heard because we're too small & too distant to sway anything.

Maybe if the some of the power was more spread out across the states, we as citizens would be more "self" empowered. There's a greater sense of achievability & accountability working at a community (& state) level where folks can physically LOOK one another in the eye.

Perhaps this a irrelevant out-there analogy: but I equate it to sending one's kid to a boarding school far far away, versus early education within the perimeters of home & community. Most folks seem to prefer to keep their kids close to home so they can be involved in shaping their lives.

[ckhagen]

I am not in favor of returning federal powers to the states- we are not the same nation we were when the founding fathers put their ideas to paper. If most decisions were made at state level, it would be very divisive, not to mention confusing.

And would this lead to "designer" states? You could choose your home state based on the laws and climate of that state regarding your taxes, healthcare, religious freedoms, etc.

What makes us different? Why does it render the Constitution worthless?

The states are given certain powers to prevent us from ALL having to live by ONE rule. It's basic checks and balances. The role of Federal Government in this case is to protect us from having liberties taken away (unconstitutionally) by the states, but not to impose laws from the Federal level on all of the states. The Federal government doesn't deal with murder for example... that is left up to the states. Does that mean there are states in which you can't be prosecuted for it? Or course not.

As it is there are 50 states and 50 different ways of dealing with all of this stuff. We're not that different. Freedom of Religion is something guaranteed by the First Amendment, which does apply to the entire country and can't be tinkered with by the states.

So basically what I'm saying is... I think you're misunderstanding... He's not saying he would take Federal powers and give them to the states, but "return" Federal powers to the states that have been taken from them. He's trying to protect the states from having their power, unconstitutionally, usurped by the Federal Government. Marriage for example... Marriage was something specifically given to the states to deal with. The Federal government should not have *anything* do to with deciding who can and can't marry. That includes making a Constitutional Amendment saying that marriage is between and man and a woman. (I'm a Christian by the way, and I agree). It's not an issue for the Federal government to decide. In fact, he'll take it one more step and say that marriage is technically a covenant made on religious grounds. We shouldn't be limiting the ability of two people to contract with one another, commercially, domestically, etc... If they have a church who will dub their contract a religious covenant typically called marriage, then that's their business.

And considering one of the reasons you "need" a marriage license is for tax purposes, eliminating the IRS takes care of that. Personally, I wish I would have never gotten a marriage license! I don't need anyone to tell me that I'm married. And the fact that we've let the Federal government use tax purposes to corner us into allowing the state to license us to marry is just ridiculous.

Anyways, as it stands the states rights are extremely important.
Here's the wiki on how states rights are set up and how our liberties are supposed to be secured by the Bill of Rights. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_rights

[jdarg]

Both Dune-ahh and Ckhagan make great arguments, but I still don't agree that returning certain decisions back to the states is a good thing. I envision a nation where certain states would have elected officials that were so extremely conservative or liberal that they would alienate many of their own residents with their decisions. I like the fact that members of the House and Senate are collectively making certain decisions for the rest of us- of course when we disagree with the decision, we view it as unbalanced. Then we work to elect state officials that do reflect our views. Sometimes we win, sometimes we don't.

Our nation is so complicated now, with so many different peoples and so many more issues and problems. We can't take it back to the way our founding fathers started it- it's a nice idea though, but not realistic for our society. It would be like untangling a spider web, and can you imagine the political and logistical nightmare that would come about in choosing just what powers would be returned to the states? Who will decide that one?

Regarding the income tax- there are too many "necessities" as WaltonGOP put it. Again, unrealistic. Sure, I don't want to pay income or sales tax, but I look at taxes as my contribution to living in the USA and all the freedoms that go with it. Should we get this for free?

If Ron Paul is so interested in personal liberty, why is he so anti- reproductive choice? Limiting a woman's reproductive freedoms is about as intrusive and anti-liberty as it gets.

I think we have all seen how religion has quickly ingratiated itself into politics. Of course we have religious freedoms, but we are not free from religious influence.

BTW- I don't have a clue who will get my vote. Every time I think I might be leaning towards somebody, I hear a blip or blurb about a view that makes me pull back. Regarding Ron Paul, I am waiting to meet somebody like myself and hear why they like him- I am a college graduate, a married 43 year old parent of an elementary and a high school kid, formerly voted along conservative lines, and did a 360 politically, spiritually, philosphically after the kids came along. I always have and will continue to be pro-choice. I am insane about public school education and making it work, not just for my kids, but for all kids (so we need taxes). I don't like fads and gimmicks and sound bytes (like this Youtube campaign stuff). If somebody reading this fits my demographic, tell me why you like Ron Paul.

I feel like I just wrote a personal dating ad.:floor:

[rehdrahk]

I am 30, computer professional and local business owner, engaged to get married. Not an exact match for your profile :), but if you are willing to listen, I can tell you why I plan on voting for RP.

Let's start with Freedom ... This is one of my key reasons ...
I find that he is the only candidate that in any way has respect for the overall individual freedoms that were granted to us by our Constitution. Granted there can be some things from the Constitution that may not hold as much water today as they did in the past, but as far as I understand how things are supposed to work ... the Constitution can be amended in order advance with the progression of our society. Problem right now is that so many things going at the Federal Level are circumventing the Constitution and therefore attacking individual rights as well as chipping away at our national sovereignty.

Second ... and much more controversial is the war in Iraq ...
I lived in NYC during the 911 attacks ... and will admit I was the first one to say let's go get those f&*(%ers. Now that the evidence has unfolded, I have come to the conclusion that our current Federal Government has their own agenda, which unfortunately at this time is highly entangled with corporate positions/politics, and does not reflect the best interest of the American people. I feel like all the other candidates are not doing their part in being honest with us about how much this war is costing us and what our overall goal of being there is?

I will stop here if you would like to comment ... I have a few other points if you would like me to continue ... but we may end up with a short novel.

I consider myself a well read study on many of the issues that are going on in our country and would love to answer any direct questions you may want to ask me about RP :)

The weekend is almost here ...

[Smiling JOe]

If Ron Paul is so interested in personal liberty, why is he so anti- reproductive choice? Limiting a woman's reproductive freedoms is about as intrusive and anti-liberty as it gets.


Don't know much about Ron Paul other than the background info, I've been reading lately, but I'll take a guess at your answer. It's kind of a combo answer. Returning the powers back to the States, each State could create its own laws regarding things such as abortion, marriage, etc. If you were sexually active and were thinking about getting an abortion, you could move to a State where it was legal, to have it done (no guarantee that it would be legal in any state). Same thing with the marriage. I guess each State would decide on requirements such as proof of residency, or maybe they say, When in Rome,.... In reality, it isn't much different than govt which already exists, with each State getting to decide many things, such as legal driving age, legal drinking age, legal smoking age, firearm laws, State Income tax laws, etc. In particular, I can recall only two issues which Paul has mentioned returning the powers to the States --
1) abortion, 2) marriage licenses

Ron Paul graduated from college with a degree in Biology. He became a doctor, in particular, an OB/GYN. Somewhere I read that he became the only OB/GYN in his town and he was delivering 40 per month. :blink: That's a lot of babies. I think I also read that he delivered over 4000 babies in his career as an OB/GYN. Now this is just a guess, but Ron Paul having a degree in Biology, then going into med shcool, taking an Oath to save lives, becoming an OB/GYN, he doesn't believe in killing, or going against his oath as a doctor. I don't know if he ever had to perform an abortion, but if I was a baby doctor, there is no way I could ever bring myself to "performing" an abortion. Maybe it all goes back to his beliefs. Interestingly, unlike most other Republicans, he acknowledges that the Fed Gov't should not have the authority to make decisions such as that, and even though he doesn't personally believe in it, he is willing to allow the State's to make their own decisions.

On another note, he also would like to get rid of the harsh drug war. He would likely return that power to the States to make their own drug laws. Maybe California and Oregon would be filled with potheads. I know many people who would pack up and move west for just that reason. If Ron Paul could just motivate the pot smokers in America to vote for him, he would win the election by a landslide, but motivated pot smoker is an oxymoron.

[seacrestkristi]

:scratch:

[wrobert]

I will stop here if you would like to comment ... I have a few other points if you would like me to continue ... but we may end up with a short novel.

I consider myself a well read study on many of the issues that are going on in our country and would love to answer any direct questions you may want to ask me about RP :)

The weekend is almost here ...


I am interested if you wish to continue.

I agree that powers need to be returned to the States for the reason SJ gave. All the potheads could move out west, and maybe other States could gear themselves toward other populations, and those that think alike could live together in harmony. RP stance on drug laws is, imho, the reason the college students are behind him. I doubt you could get 1 out of 10 that could even spell Constitution much less explain the nuances that lead to the overall balance of the powers.

[30abob]

Both Dune-ahh and Ckhagan make great arguments, but I still don't agree that returning certain decisions back to the states is a good thing. I envision a nation where certain states would have elected officials that were so extremely conservative or liberal that they would alienate many of their own residents with their decisions...

I'm not picking a fight, but... have you taken a real hard look at what's going on right now? Would all the people who feel "alienated" please raise their hand... wait, wait, wait,... I'm still counting!

[jdarg]

I'm not picking a fight, but... have you taken a real hard look at what's going on right now? Would all the people who feel "alienated" please raise their hand... wait, wait, wait,... I'm still counting!

Yes Bob, I have taken a real hard look. Yeah, it isn't always pretty, but it could be worse. Fortunately, there are elected officials in other states that might balance out my elected officials that don't share my views. If many decisions went back to state level, and I didn't agree with my state and its political climate, making decisions, would I need to move? Call me screwed.


SJ, I think you see the "designer state" scenario that scares me.

[Smiling JOe]

SJ, I think you see the "designer state" scenario that scares me.Yes, but I think it might be exaggerated a bit. The voters still are the ones who put people into the decision making roles, and the Fed Gov't will still tie grant money and road funding dollars onto the carrots dangling over the State's heads, so in reality, I don't think much would change other than some things which don't directly affect the public at large, such as gay marriage issues and legalized pot smoking in one's own home, which most pot smokers already do anyway.

[jdarg]

I think there should be a Meetup for people like me that just don't get the Ron Paul revolution. What does one do at a Meetup? I may be too old for Meeting Up.

[Smiling JOe]

I think there should be a Meetup for people like me that just don't get the Ron Paul revolution. What does one do at a Meetup? I may be too old for Meeting Up.:floor: Hah! never to old for a meeting, as long as it last no longer than one hour. The mind can only absorb what the seat can endure. In regards to a revolution, do not literally sign up or the gov't will know exactly who to kill. ;-) Never been to a meetup. I prefer to hear opposing views, rather than hearing the same shpeel that I could read from a website or see in a youtube video. But by all means, feel free to meet up.

[User 3]

How is he going to lower barriers to healthcare?

The federal government decided long ago that it knew how to manage your health care better than you and replaced personal responsibility and accountability with a system that puts corporate interests first. Our free market health care system that was once the envy of the world became a federally-managed disaster.


Few people realize that Congress forced Health Maintenance Organizations (HMOs) on us. HMOs rose to prominence through federal legislation, incentives, and coercion.


Now, the Food and Drug Administration's bias toward large pharmaceutical companies enlarges their power, limits treatment options, and drives consumers to seek Canadian medicines. Regulations from D.C. make it virtually impossible for small business owners to cover their employees. The unemployed often cannot afford insurance, meaning those who need basic medical attention overcrowd emergency rooms and drive up premiums.


The federal government will not suddenly become efficient managers if universal health care is instituted. Government health care only means long waiting periods, lack of choice, poor quality, and frustration. Many Canadians, fed up with socialized medicine, come to the U.S. in order to obtain care. Socialized medicine will not magically work here.


Health care should not be left up to HMOs, big drug companies, and government bureaucrats.


It is time to take back our health care. This is why he supports:
Making all medical expenses tax deductible.
Eliminating federal regulations that discourage small businesses from providing coverage.
Giving doctors the freedom to collectively negotiate with insurance companies and drive down the cost of medical care.
Making every American eligible for a Health Savings Account (HSA), and removing the requirement that individuals must obtain a high-deductible insurance policy before opening an HSA.
Reform licensure requirements so that pharmacists and nurses can perform some basic functions to increase access to care and lower costs.By removing federal regulations, encouraging competition, and presenting real choices, we can make our health care system the envy of the world once again.

[Miss Kitty]

:floor: Hah! never to old for a meeting, as long as it last no longer than one hour. The mind can only absorb what the seat can endure. In regards to a revolution, do not literally sign up or the gov't will know exactly who to kill. ;-) Never been to a meetup. I prefer to hear opposing views, rather than hearing the same shpeel that I could read from a website or see in a youtube video. But by all means, feel free to meet up.

And never give money to a political party, unless it is done with a money order. :bang:

[Fishfood]

If Ron Paul is so interested in personal liberty, why is he so anti- reproductive choice? Limiting a woman's reproductive freedoms is about as intrusive and anti-liberty as it gets.



Ron Paul approaches the abortion issue in a way consistent with his libertarian views. On one hand you have the personal freedom of the woman, but on the other you have the personal freedom of the unborn child. It's not ideologically inconsistent for him to say he feels the issue should be left up to the states. He's delivered a lot of babies in his time and I feel this makes him personally against abortion the way it is normally used.

[wrobert]

Okay here is a question for the RP supporters. If RP does not win the Republican nomination, will you then continue to be involved by selecting a candidate that most closely has the same ideas and thoughts as RP, or will you drop out of the political process and not do anything to affect change?

I did find a SoWal meetup, being held in south Okaloosa. Sort of defeats the purpose if you ask me. Like when the Walton County Chamber has a lunch in Okaloosa County.

[30abob]

Yes Bob, I have taken a real hard look. Yeah, it isn't always pretty, but it could be worse. Fortunately, there are elected officials in other states that might balance out my elected officials that don't share my views. If many decisions went back to state level, and I didn't agree with my state and its political climate, making decisions, would I need to move? Call me screwed.


SJ, I think you see the "designer state" scenario that scares me.


Ok, "Screwed":

I agree it could be worse... I think I see "worse" coming with any of the three front runners' in either party.:shock: BUT, I refuse to be afraid of FREEDOM, it was for FREEDOM that so many before us sacrificed so much. The sacrifice's that we have made of late unknowingly are what bother me the most; giving up our Liberties and calling it "Security" and being afraid to get to know our neighbors next door or two streets over because "they're different".

It really boils down to our expectations of government. What do you want the government to do FOR you. I want as little as possible as a stereotypical Libertarian.

[30abob]

Okay here is a question for the RP supporters. If RP does not win the Republican nomination, will you then continue to be involved by selecting a candidate that most closely has the same ideas and thoughts as RP, or will you drop out of the political process and not do anything to affect change?

I did find a south Walton meetup, being held in south Okaloosa. Sort of defeats the purpose if you ask me. Like when the Walton County Chamber has a lunch in Okaloosa County.

Drop out? No. Find someone else? I hope, but no luck so far.

I think the "next" meetup for Walton Co. will be in Walton Co., at the new Panera Bread @ Silver Sands.

[Bdarg]

[quote=WaltonGOP;324715]Just a guess, but maybe that democrat wants Paul to win, because he is the only Rep who is against the war. :idontno: Or, maybe they want him to take votes away from an electable candidate, sending the Paul voters who like the no-war stuff over to the dems. Or, maybe they just haven't looked at Ron Paul's history of wanting a very limited, small Federal Gov't. Paul is also in favor of giving much of the Fed power back to the States, as the founding fathers wanted. This would include any decisions on gay marriage and abortion. That alone should be enough to outweigh his drive for small Fed Gov't (which is very anti-Dem).

Was there not a war in the mid 1800's that was to decide the role of states rights vs. federal union? Didn't hundreds of thousands of Americans die in the war? Was it not the party of Lincoln (a.k.a. GOP) that won the war for the UNION? When did the GOP change their mind on that war?

[wrobert]

Drop out? No. Find someone else? I hope, but no luck so far.

I think the "next" meetup for Walton Co. will be in Walton Co., at the new Panera Bread @ Silver Sands.

The meetup site says Panera Bread at Destin Commons. I am sure someone can correct that. IF I were to decide to drive all the way down there I would certainly not want to go to the wrong place.

[wrobert]

[quote=Smiling JOe;324804]

Was there not a war in the mid 1800's that was to decide the role of states rights vs. federal union? Didn't hundreds of thousands of Americans die in the war? Was it not the party of Lincoln (a.k.a. GOP) that won the war for the UNION? When did the GOP change their mind on that war?

From what I have read about Lincoln he was a big Federal rights person. The war was to keep the union together. As far as the GOP changing their mind, from what I see it seems to change as the power structure changes. When the Dems ran Tallahassee, the GOP was all for local control, then when they got in charge they wanted State control. The same thing happens at the Fed level. They want control at the level that they control.

Personally, I am for local control. I think communities can and should be different. And I see no problem with different laws and standards in different parts of this country.

[Smiling JOe]

bdarg,

Good question. As I understand it, Constitutionalists and Libertarians are in agreement that basic rights like freedom from slavery is a Federal issue. Not a State issue. If an issue is addressed in the Constitution, Bill of Rights, Amendments to the Constitution, it is a Federal issue. If the issue is not, it would be a State issue. So, they would be in agreement with Abe Lincoln in that States should not be able to make decisions on things such as slavery. Control of Gambling, Drinking, abortion, marriage, smoking, drug use, etc are not the role of Federal Gov't, as they are not addressed in Constitution and or Amendments, or the Bill of Rights. Does that make sense?

[seacrestkristi]

It does mention freedom to pursue happiness. Seems those would be included under that, no?

[Smiling JOe]

Thinking about the power returning to the States, in a sense, isn't that different than having different communities or subdivisions in a town. Some have hardly any regulations and rules, while others will tell you what type of fence to have, where to place it, the location of your porch and the exterior paint color of your house.

[Smiling JOe]

It does mention freedom to pursue happiness. Seems those would be included under that, no?Sorry, I left out another important document which would fall under the Federal Gov't -- The Declaration of Independence covers the pursuit of happiness.

[User 3]

Okay here is a question for the RP supporters. If RP does not win the Republican nomination, will you then continue to be involved by selecting a candidate that most closely has the same ideas and thoughts as RP, or will you drop out of the political process and not do anything to affect change?

If he does not win the Republican nomination, I hope he would run as a Third Party candidate. He has not stated anything of the sort, but imho, I don't think he has ruled it out. If he did not run as a Third Party candidate, I would write-in Ron Paul on my ballot.

I did find a south Walton meetup, being held in south Okaloosa. Sort of defeats the purpose if you ask me. Like when the Walton County Chamber has a lunch in Okaloosa County.

The meeting you are referring to is also on the Okaloosa meetup page. The SoWal group appears to be a lot smaller than the Okaloosa group. If they are collaborating together, I would say it makes sense.

[wrobert]

[quote]If he does not win the Republican nomination, I hope he would run as a Third Party candidate. He has not stated anything of the sort, but imho, I don't think he has ruled it out. If he did not run as a Third Party candidate, I would write-in Ron Paul on my ballot.

If he does not win the Republican nomination he has zero chance of winning nationally. So you would write him in, instead of trying to change things slowly with the ultimate result being to get someone like RP in office. This sort of strategy, imho, is why things will never change. It makes no sense if you want to win.

The meeting you are referring to is also on the Okaloosa meetup page. The South Walton group appears to be a lot smaller than the Okaloosa group. If they are collaborating together, I would say it makes sense.

I have ran more than one campaign myself. And the lack of organization is going to be the downfall here. How are you going to get people motivated if they do not even know where to go to meet others?

[Smiling JOe]

If he does not win the Republican nomination, I hope he would run as a Third Party candidate. He has not stated anything of the sort, but imho, I don't think he has ruled it out. If he did not run as a Third Party candidate, I would write-in Ron Paul on my ballot.



Interesting that you bring this up. I recall reading that Ron Paul is still a potential nominee of both the Libertarian Party and the Constitution Party, even though he currently seeking nomination with the GOP.

[Dune-AHH]

[quote=User 3;325380]

If he does not win the Republican nomination he has zero chance of winning nationally. So you would write him in, instead of trying to change things slowly with the ultimate result being to get someone like RP in office. This sort of strategy, imho, is why things will never change. It makes no sense if you want to win.


Sorry, I'm not understanding what you're saying here...please clarify / expand.

[Smiling JOe]

Listening to all of the GOP news peeps, who are very influential with their audiences, I have not heard any mention of Ron Paul, but I often hear them talk about the need for Iraq to be squashed. With that in mind, I doubt Ron Paul has a chance in hell at getting the GOP nomination, unless all the dems switch to reps and vote him in, and that sure is heck isn't going to happen because he doesn't offer HillaryCare.

[User 3]

If he does not win the Republican nomination he has zero chance of winning nationally. So you would write him in, instead of trying to change things slowly with the ultimate result being to get someone like RP in office. This sort of strategy, imho, is why things will never change. It makes no sense if you want to win.

Have you looked at the Zogby polls? He fairs pretty well with all sides of the political spectrum. I do agree it would be a long shot for him to win as a write-in, but I am not sure what I would be winning if I voted for a "top-tier" candidate with whom I don't agree.

I have ran more than one campaign myself. And the lack of organization is going to be the downfall here. How are you going to get people motivated if they do not even know where to go to meet others?

I have seen more Signs and Billboards and Blimps and Airplanes and Boats and "money bombs" displaying Ron Paul's name than all of the other candidates combined. I am pretty sure you need a little organization to put all of that together. I agree there needs to be more, and I know there are more organized efforts on the way, the problem will be getting the media to cover all of this organization.

[Smiling JOe]

The question is will enough individuals contribute to his campaign? He boasts that he doesn't want the money/ties to big business, and that he relies on contributions from individuals. However, all politicians seem to know that the real money comes from promises to big businesses.

[Bdarg]

bdarg,

Good question. As I understand it, Constitutionalists and Libertarians are in agreement that basic rights like freedom from slavery is a Federal issue. Not a State issue. If an issue is addressed in the Constitution, Bill of Rights, Amendments to the Constitution, it is a Federal issue. If the issue is not, it would be a State issue. So, they would be in agreement with Abe Lincoln in that States should not be able to make decisions on things such as slavery. Control of Gambling, Drinking, abortion, marriage, smoking, drug use, etc are not the role of Federal Gov't, as they are not addressed in Constitution and or Amendments, or the Bill of Rights. Does that make sense?

Not fully.

The civil war was state's rights vs. federal rights. (Slavery, I am sorry to say, only came into play as a battle tactic.) The union was for the union trumping the state, the confederacy was states trumping the union. Thus, as the name implies a confederacy of states, allied but not ruling over each other. All the examples you have given could, and many have, been argued at one time or another to be covered by the state and by the feds. The constitution, as in the case of slavery, was amended in order to cover the issue.

There are many things that I find enticing about the Libertarians and their principles, however, many years ago I had the pleasure to hear a national Libertarian Presidential candidate speak. His basic tack was that everyone should have freedom to do anything they want. If that freedom over runs the freedoms of another, then the offended party should file legal action to stop that activity, be it dumping toxic pollutants in the river upstream of the complainant or having the noisy dog. The river example was one that he actually used in his speech. Not that I think all libertarians are like their particular presidential candidate that year, but it made me realize that backing off the conventions that we have built as a nation in order to provide marginally more liberty while promoting exceedingly more lawsuit does not seem a feasible way to run a country. Kant, Hume, Mills, et al were for individual rights, but I think they also saw a balance between the liberty of individual and the need to out a careful limit on some liberties for the greater good.

[30abob]

The meetup site says Panera Bread at Destin Commons. I am sure someone can correct that. IF I were to decide to drive all the way down there I would certainly not want to go to the wrong place.

I think they just decided to change at the last Destin Commons meetup. I didn't go, my wife did, so I'm repeating 2nd hand info.

[wrobert]

I have seen more Signs and Billboards and Blimps and Airplanes and Boats and "money bombs" displaying Ron Paul's name than all of the other candidates combined. I am pretty sure you need a little organization to put all of that together. I agree there needs to be more, and I know there are more organized efforts on the way, the problem will be getting the media to cover all of this organization.


I guess I am a poor communicator. I was talking about the fact that there are two locations for the next south Walton meetup, several miles apart, and no one seems to know which one is the real one.

[wrobert]

The question is will enough individuals contribute to his campaign? He boasts that he doesn't want the money/ties to big business, and that he relies on contributions from individuals. However, all politicians seem to know that the real money comes from promises to big businesses.


He may shun money from big business, but if what you see on the internet is true, lol, then he will take money from just about anyone who is warm and still breathing.

[User 3]

I guess I am a poor communicator. I was talking about the fact that there are two locations for the next south Walton meetup, several miles apart, and no one seems to know which one is the real one.
Wednesday Dec12 6:00 PM (http://ronpaul.meetup.com/959/calendar/6876461)

Our next Meetup:
Ron Paul and Panera Bread (http://ronpaul.meetup.com/959/calendar/6876461/)

Want to meet other Ron Paul supporters?
Come to Panera Bread in the Destin Commons every Wednesday night at 6pm!
Nothing fancy, just food, friends, and lots of Ron Paul talk.
Got ideas for getting the word out that this is Ron Paul country?? Be there.

When? Wednesday, Dec 12, 2007, 6:00 PM

Where? Panera Bread
Destin Commons
Destin, FL 32541

Info/Map (http://ronpaul.meetup.com/959/venue/?venueId=445773)RSVP limit Only 20 members (including guests) can RSVP 'Yes' or 'Maybe' for this Meetup. There's still room for 18 more.
Who? 2 members have said Yes

I don't see two locations listed on here and this is directly off their site.

[wrobert]

Wednesday Dec12 6:00 PM (http://ronpaul.meetup.com/959/calendar/6876461)

Our next Meetup:
Ron Paul and Panera Bread (http://ronpaul.meetup.com/959/calendar/6876461/)

Want to meet other Ron Paul supporters?
Come to Panera Bread in the Destin Commons every Wednesday night at 6pm!
Nothing fancy, just food, friends, and lots of Ron Paul talk.
Got ideas for getting the word out that this is Ron Paul country?? Be there.

When? Wednesday, Dec 12, 2007, 6:00 PM

Where? Panera Bread
Destin Commons
Destin, FL 32541

Info/Map (http://ronpaul.meetup.com/959/venue/?venueId=445773)RSVP limit Only 20 members (including guests) can RSVP 'Yes' or 'Maybe' for this Meetup. There's still room for 18 more.
Who? 2 members have said Yes

I don't see two locations listed on here and this is directly off their site.


But someone said on this thread that they thought it was in Silver Sands, per a decision at the last meeting. That came up because I questioned the SoWal meetup taking place in south Okaloosa.

[User 3]

He may shun money from big business, but if what you see on the internet is true, lol, then he will take money from just about anyone who is warm and still breathing.

Who do the other candidates accept money from? I am pretty sure taking money from big businesses and lobbyists comes with an "I'll give you money if you'll..." Should all big businesses and lobbyists make the decisions for us the individuals?

[Smiling JOe]

Not fully.

The civil war was state's rights vs. federal rights. (Slavery, I am sorry to say, only came into play as a battle tactic.) The union was for the union trumping the state, the confederacy was states trumping the union. Thus, as the name implies a confederacy of states, allied but not ruling over each other. All the examples you have given could, and many have, been argued at one time or another to be covered by the state and by the feds. The constitution, as in the case of slavery, was amended in order to cover the issue.

I agree that slavery was used as a tactic in the War, and not the cause of the War. As I understand the War, it was not a true Civil War, because in a Civil War, you have at least two opponents fighting for the supreme power of the others. The confederacy of states wanted to separate from the north, not rule over them.

I don't think most freedom fighters believe that their freedoms shouldn't be limited when they begin affecting other people's freedoms. I believe that most understand that there is a give and take, although there are some fruit loops out there.

I am really having difficulty in seeing ways in which returning some powers from the Feds to the States, would harm us in any way. In fact, I think it might give us more of a freedom to choose the rules, by moving to other states which might better suit our lifestyle or political and social beliefs. Depending on a few States' rules, it might make college football games more exciting. Help me think of some examples of how returning the powers to the States would be a bad thing.

[User 3]

But someone said on this thread that they thought it was in Silver Sands, per a decision at the last meeting. That came up because I questioned the south Walton meetup taking place in south Okaloosa.

This is what was said:

I think they just decided to change at the last Destin Commons meetup. I didn't go, my wife did, so I'm repeating 2nd hand info.

This was second hand information. What I posted was directly off their website. If someone heard second hand information about repairing a broken oven and without checking the manual broke it worse, that would be the individuals fault not the informations fault.

[wrobert]

This is what was said:
This was second hand information. What I posted was directly off their website. If someone heard second hand information about repairing a broken oven and without checking the manual broke it worse, that would be the individuals fault not the informations fault.

Okay, so I guess it would not be bad to advertise a RP meetup at a location in which no one is going to show up. I am sure that will go a long way toward increasing his support.

[Fishfood]

If Ron Paul does not enter the presidential race as a third party candidate (maybe) or win the Republican nomination (highly unlikely), I will probably not be voting.

[30abob]

Okay, so I guess it would not be bad to advertise a RP meetup at a location in which no one is going to show up. I am sure that will go a long way toward increasing his support.

Did you hurt yourself jumping to that conclusion?;-)

I sincerely apologize for any any confusion I may have contributed! My wife and sometimes have communication difficulties; you know "the rocks in my head fit the holes in her head" thing. We have confirmed and reconfirmed that the meetup is NOT at Silver Sands but at Destin Commons as listed on meetup.com. Nouns and pronouns are often interchangeable in my wife's vocabulary and I should have known to run the comment through my "filter" before passing on anything. MY BAD!:blush:

[wrobert]

Did you hurt yourself jumping to that conclusion?;-)

I sincerely apologize for any any confusion I may have contributed! My wife and sometimes have communication difficulties; you know "the rocks in my head fit the holes in her head" thing. We have confirmed and reconfirmed that the meetup is NOT at Silver Sands but at Destin Commons as listed on meetup.com. Nouns and pronouns are often interchangeable in my wife's vocabulary and I should have known to run the comment through my "filter" before passing on anything. MY BAD!:blush:


Okay then. Let me confirm something just for my own clarification, you see, I am easily confused on these issues.

The next Ron Paul Meetup for South Walton County will be held in South Okaloosa County. If this is true then I believe that makes my first post correct, or maybe just slightly correct, there are no South Walton County Meetups being held in South Walton County.

[User 3]

Okay then. Let me confirm something just for my own clarification, you see, I am easily confused on these issues.

The next Ron Paul Meetup for South Walton County will be held in South Okaloosa County. If this is true then I believe that makes my first post correct, or maybe just slightly correct, there are no South Walton County Meetups being held in South Walton County.

Correct.

[bohemily]

TOkay then. Let me confirm something just for my own clarification, you see, I am easily confused on these issues.

The next Ron Paul Meetup for South Walton County will be held in South Okaloosa County. If this is true then I believe that makes my first post correct, or maybe just slightly correct, there are no South Walton County Meetups being held in South Walton County.


There will be a meeting in South Walton Co soon, it is just not on meet up yet.

[wrobert]

T


There will be a meeting in South Walton Co soon, it is just not on meet up yet.


Will it be for south Walton County residents or is it going to be for south Bay County?

[bohemily]

Will it be for south Walton County residents or is it going to be for south Bay County?



I'm really not sure why this bothers you so much WaltonGOP? They originally met at Destin Commons Panera wearing Ron Paul shirts. They had lots of people passing by asking them questions about who this Ron Paul guy was and they just decided to keep meeting there. The Panera at Silver Sands wasn't finished yet...plus because the Okaloosa group was large they left it there because some from the Okaloosa group were driving over from Niceville. Not that big of a deal.

The South Walton Country group has just recently grown and there are plans to meet soon at a place in Blue Mt Beach.

You asked on this thread earlier for people to tell you why we were voting for Ron Paul or why you should vote for him (I forgot your exact wording). I have voted Republican for years. I've been disenchanted with the GOP for several years now and had been voting for Libertarian candidates whenever possible in the last few years. I honestly feel like Ron Paul stands for what I thought the Republicans stood for years ago...small and limited government.


I was not at all excited about the election coming up until I found out about Ron Paul. Freedom has always been very important to me. I heard Ron Paul say recently in a speech that this is for Freedom, Liberty, and Peace and that about sums it up for me.

[wrobert]

[quote=bohemily;325833]I'm really not sure why this bothers you so much WaltonGOP? They originally met at Destin Commons Panera wearing Ron Paul shirts. They had lots of people passing by asking them questions whenever possible in the last few years. [quote]

I am not sure either. I think has more to do with me pointing out that there was no meetup going on in south Walton county and being told I was wrong. Like I said earlier, it also bothers me with the Walton County Chamber holds meetings in south Okaloosa County. Maybe it is a compulsion.

[ckhagen]

Ok... I was offline for a couple days.

I'm really aggravated about this bashing of the fact that the Meetup in in the Destin Panera. And FWIW, I think you need to stop jumping to conclusions regarding the location and the improprieties you're trying to project on it.

The Destin Panera gatherings on Wednesday night started before the South Walton group was even started. It started as a part of the Okaloosa group, put together by a guy from Niceville and myself since we were both active in the Okaloosa group (II live in and attend church in SoWal but, I drop my son off at Village Baptist for AWANA on Wednesday nights... btw, no one in SoWal holds AWANA meetings or we would just go around here ;) ;) ).

So, it's actually an Okaloosa group activity. Does that make you feel better? :D I can't help it if people from SoWal started showing up ;)

Now that the South Walton Meetup is live, we're going to start holding actual planning meetings in Blue Mountain. But, if you just want to LEARN about Ron Paul and not actually help the campaign functions, you should show up to the Panera in Destin Commons. For right now, the only meetings in SoWal, like most Meetup groups, will be organizational type meetings. We don't have time to have multiple social meetings in two places 3 miles apart with only 50ish days left until the primary.

[ckhagen]

Btw, this was added this afternoon.

Walton Business Meeting

When:
Saturday, December 15, 2007, 10:00 AM
Where:
Palmetto Family Health Care
2460 W County Highway 30A
Santa Rosa Beach , FL 32459

* Info/Map

Description:

This will be a business meeting to discuss strategy. We're in the process of getting a voter list so we can make phone calls and perhaps knock on doors. We'll talk about sign waiving, the national/state campaign, and letter writing. We'll need volunteers, so bring your friends! Contact me if there's something else you want to put on the agenda. I know it's Saturday morning but this may avoid conflicts with babysitters, Christmas parties, shopping, and church. Hopefully 10AM isn't too early!

[wrobert]

I'm really aggravated about this bashing of the fact that the Meetup in in the Destin Panera. And FWIW, I think you need to stop jumping to conclusions regarding the location and the improprieties you're trying to project on it.


First I hate that I am aggravating you. That is not my intent.

Second, what conclusion am I jumping too and what impropriety am I projecting onto you or your group?



So, it's actually an Okaloosa group activity. Does that make you feel better? :D I can't help it if people from SoWal started showing up ;)


The point I was trying to make.


But, if you just want to LEARN about Ron Paul and not actually help the campaign functions, you should show up to the Panera in Destin Commons.


This exchange has actually taught me enough. I do not think any additional information is going to be needed by me.

We don't have time to have multiple social meetings in two places 3 miles apart with only 50ish days left until the primary.

Blue Mountain and Destin Commons? Thought it was much further.

The Walton County Republican Executive Committee meets in Freeport (Walton County) on the third Monday of each month at 6:30 PM at the Freeport Community Center. If you are a registered Republican and wish to come and speak as to why you are supporting Ron Paul or why we should vote for Ron Paul, you are welcomed. I have made this offer to various individuals working on the different campaigns, but this is the first place I have found a RP organizer that I could have a civil conversation with.

[Smiling JOe]

This exchange has actually taught me enough. I do not think any additional information is going to be needed by me.



Wouldn't it be scary if you learned about God, only through God's followers?

[wrobert]

Wouldn't it be scary if you learned about God, only through God's followers?


Boy now that is pretty profound. Maybe I do need to continue looking. Especially after seeing how several of them acted recently.

[Camp Creek Kid]

Y'all need to get over it and vote for Mitt Romney :D

[ckhagen]

First I hate that I am aggravating you. That is not my intent.

Second, what conclusion am I jumping too and what impropriety am I projecting onto you or your group?

Well, you made it sound as if we were doing Walton County a disservice by holding meetings outside of the county, which we weren't. Especially by equating it to what the Walton Chamber does, which is pretty ridiculous. Sorry for getting irritated, but I just don't like being lumped in with something that sounds disloyal considering our group is made up of very honest people. We all only voted once in the Florida (St. Pete) Straw Poll... Unlike the Romney supporters who voted 40+ times each with tickets paid for by the campaign :lolabove:


This exchange has actually taught me enough. I do not think any additional information is going to be needed by me.
Well, it's up to you, but there are many more of us who have a lot more to offer on the subject who haven't participated in this conversation. We span ages 17-85, civilians and military, men and women


Blue Mountain and Destin Commons? Thought it was much further.
I said "social" meetings. We have the social meetings at Panera. The organizational meeting is in Blue Mountain.


The Walton County Republican Executive Committee meets in Freeport (Walton County) on the third Monday of each month at 6:30 PM at the Freeport Community Center. If you are a registered Republican and wish to come and speak as to why you are supporting Ron Paul or why we should vote for Ron Paul, you are welcomed. I have made this offer to various individuals working on the different campaigns, but this is the first place I have found a RP organizer that I could have a civil conversation with.

Is that next week? I'll see what I can do. We start super-voter canvassing this week for Okaloosa (still working on getting materials from National/State headquarters for Walton).

[wrobert]

Is that next week? I'll see what I can do. We start super-voter canvassing this week for Okaloosa (still working on getting materials from National/State headquarters for Walton).


December 17th

[wrobert]

CKHagen,

Take a look at this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmPi2GbbUes. This is being posted repeatedly on another list I belong too. The big Fred Thompson conspiracy. According to the poster if the complaintant had not been a FT supporter none of this would have happened. This is the sort of nonsense that I think give RP supporters a bad name to many. Just my thoughts.

[ckhagen]

Sorry, but I don't see what that has to do with anything discussed here.

I don't know that man or why he chose to do what he was doing.
Perhaps it was because Fred decided to monopolize the gun shows by buying the sole rights for candidate presence? That's pretty dirty... to fool people into thinking you're the only candidate that supports their position (I'm sure the attendees don't realize he paid to have SOLE rights, not just to have presence). Sort of like Romney buying the straw poll in St. Pete (which I was present for and extremely saddened by). Those kinds of things give the candidates bad names... not just their supporters.

I think the real question in that situation as to whether or not there was a "conspiracy" is... what *exactly* was he arrested for and charged with? I would venture to say that the vast majority of times that someone is approached by police for doing what he was doing, they're not arrested. So, unless he put up a fight and refused to move and was actually committing some sort of crime, you've got to wonder why they went as far as to arrest him. Now, if he did refuse to move and was in an area that the police deemed unlawful, then that's different. But, there's a ton of unanswered questions on all sides here.

[Andy A.]

I have watched Ron Paul in several of the GOP debates. He does not appear to be a Republican. He is a Libertarian and that is fine, but to run as a Republican is the same as a wolf in sheep's clothing. To do so is dishonest and unfair to bona fide Republicans. If he wants to run as a Libertarian, I'll be more inclined to listen to what he has to say, though so far most of his positions are not ones I could support. Once again, I say, if you're a Libertarian run as one and quit posing as a Republican. Before I draw all Ron Paul supporter's wrath, this is only one person's opinion. If you want to know why I can't support him, thats an entirely different subject.

[rehdrahk]

I sure would like to know what your definition of a Republican is ... if you do not mind sharing ...

[Andy A.]

Abraham Lincoln, Ike Eisenhower, Ronald Reagan, Richard Nixon(I know, I know) John McCain...I could go on but you should get the picture by now.

[rehdrahk]

Since when does a list of names define the term Republican ... maybe I should rephrase the question:

What is the platform that you feel is best representative of the Republican Party?

[scooterbug44]

I think we should get rid of party affiliations and just make it an open race - one national primary to narrow it to 3-4 candidates, the candidate with the most votes wins, no soft money from parties, candidates running just on THEIR stated policy platforms and 5% of all money raised goes to reducing the national debt.

[Smiling JOe]

I have watched Ron Paul in several of the GOP debates. He does not appear to be a Republican. He is a Libertarian and that is fine, but to run as a Republican is the same as a wolf in sheep's clothing. To do so is dishonest and unfair to bona fide Republicans. If he wants to run as a Libertarian, I'll be more inclined to listen to what he has to say, though so far most of his positions are not ones I could support. Once again, I say, if you're a Libertarian run as one and quit posing as a Republican. Before I draw all Ron Paul supporter's wrath, this is only one person's opinion. If you want to know why I can't support him, thats an entirely different subject.

Maybe he doesn't fit today's typical Republican definition of large gov't and extremely hefty spending. I'm not sure that GW Bush fits into the class with any of the Republicans you mentioned except for maybe one, yet you have no problem with GW being labeled a Republican. With the exception of the sending the troops to Afghanistan and Iraq (Wait a minute, Clinton sent troops to battle in Iraq), his actions in the Presidency could almost throw him across the line into the large gov't / hefty spending of the Democratic Party, maybe even beyond that. The traditional Republican Party was swept away after Reagan left the White House. I hear many people talking about wanting to see more conservative spending in the Republican Party. Maybe Ron Paul will represent them, since other candidates won't. I even hear the Democrats talk about the wasteful gov't spending and they want it to stop, too. Personally, I think that too many voters are scared of the freedoms which Ron Paul represents, and I don't think he has a real shot at the White House. I think you will see the US drift toward candidates who are fiscally conservative and socially liberal, and if you find the person with those qualities, they will win the votes every time.

You ask why Ron Paul shouldn't run in the Libertarian Party. Perhaps it is because the Libertarian Party is shut out of the major TV Network debates which are controlled by the Republican and Democratic Parties. Talk about an unbalanced playing field. I'm really liking Scooterbug's suggestion of having no parties. Why shouldn't the Dems be debating the Republicans, Libertarians, Communists, Socialists, etc? (think I'm kidding about those parties? guess again, they exist in the USA) Throw them all on the stage and get rid of this control by the so-called press. Let C-Span run the debates.

[User 3]

I have watched Ron Paul in several of the GOP debates. He does not appear to be a Republican. He is a Libertarian and that is fine, but to run as a Republican is the same as a wolf in sheep's clothing. To do so is dishonest and unfair to bona fide Republicans.

I am so confused. Why, if Ron Paul is a Libertarian, would he be elected into congress in the state of Texas for 10 terms (20 years) as a Republican? I guess we could, using that same logic, also come to the conclusion that:

A. Guliani is a Democrat posing as a Republican.
B. Romney is Pro-Choice posing as a Pro-Lifer.
C. Huckabee is Pro-taxation posing a tax cutter.
D. Guliani, Romney, Huckabee, and McCain are all pro illegal immigration posing as border defenders.

I'm sure I could go on.

What makes his views different than that of Ronald Reagan?

[ckhagen]

I should add... his 1988 run on the Libertarian ticket was actually at the Libertarian party's request IIRC and he was still a registered Republican during the race.

Ya'll act like he just showed up to the Republican party this year, which is by and far not the case. He's been a Republican far longer than Guiliani and has been an elected official *as a Republican* for longer than any other Rep in the race!

He was one of only FOUR Republican Congressmen to endorse Reagan during the '76 election.

[Bob]

I have watched Ron Paul in several of the GOP debates. He does not appear to be a Republican. He is a Libertarian and that is fine, but to run as a Republican is the same as a wolf in sheep's clothing. To do so is dishonest and unfair to bona fide Republicans. If he wants to run as a Libertarian, I'll be more inclined to listen to what he has to say, though so far most of his positions are not ones I could support. Once again, I say, if you're a Libertarian run as one and quit posing as a Republican. Before I draw all Ron Paul supporter's wrath, this is only one person's opinion. If you want to know why I can't support him, thats an entirely different subject.Well then email GW and ask him to resign. He's run as a Repub twice, spends like a Democrat, protects our borders like a Democrat, and generally governs like an idiot.

[Andy A.]

Well then email GW and ask him to resign. He's run as a Repub twice, spends like a Democrat, protects our borders like a Democrat, and generally governs like an idiot.
Are you sure you didn't mean governs lile a Democrat since you corredtly used it everywhere else. And Sj, believe it or not, I agree with everthing in your post, particularly fiscal conservative, social liberal.

[Smiling JOe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Mz9pDGHBTo

[ckhagen]

Over 6 million dollars raised yesterday. By over 56,000 individuals... not PACs and Corporations. That breaks the all-time record for one day fund raising set by John Kerry.

Btw, the Republican candidate with the highest fund raising numbers last quarter was Rudy with 11.3 million. Ron Paul is at over 18 million this quarter... quarterly numbers usually drop 25-50% in the 4th quarter. I can't wait until the FEC reports in January... can't wait.

[Andy A.]

Over 6 million dollars raised yesterday. By over 56,000 individuals... not PACs and Corporations. That breaks the all-time record for one day fund raising set by John Kerry.

Btw, the Republican candidate with the highest fund raising numbers last quarter was Rudy with 11.3 million. Ron Paul is at over 18 million this quarter... quarterly numbers usually drop 25-50% in the 4th quarter. I can't wait until the FEC reports in January... can't wait.
Isn't it a shame we have progressed to the point where we are using how much money a candidate can raise as to what his qualifications for running for president are? I think Scooter's idea is probably a good one. Personally, I am disgusted with the whole bloomin' process.

[ckhagen]

Yes, it IS sad that we've come to that. The fundraising numbers were how the "top-tier" was decided by the media! They continue to use it as their litmus test of status. Unfortunately, if you look at the Top Contributors of Hillary, Obama, Rudy, and Mitt... all their money comes from the same places. From the banking industry. opensecrets.org... check it out. Compare. We've been sold these "top-tier" candidates based on corporate fund raising. Ron Paul is actually raising nearly all funds from individuals. They're sending it to him so that he has the money to buy the TV ads and the direct mail media to further name recognition. Without it, the large corporations and the media win.

[wrobert]

Over 6 million dollars raised yesterday. By over 56,000 individuals... not PACs and Corporations. That breaks the all-time record for one day fund raising set by John Kerry.

Btw, the Republican candidate with the highest fund raising numbers last quarter was Rudy with 11.3 million. Ron Paul is at over 18 million this quarter... quarterly numbers usually drop 25-50% in the 4th quarter. I can't wait until the FEC reports in January... can't wait.


Corporations are people too. If they all go Enron then where would we be? For everyone to constantly espouse the evils of corporations I imagine most just complete the proxy and turn it back in.

[ckhagen]

Corporations are people too. If they all go Enron then where would we be? For everyone to constantly espouse the evils of corporations I imagine most just complete the proxy and turn it back in.

But when they're placing so much value in the media on the amount of funds, corporations will always win. And why do the "top-tier" candidates all receive large sums of money from the same people (JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, etc...)? If their policies are so different (we're talking about DEMs and REPs), then why are these firms giving them all such large sums?

The fund raising numbers (large ones) fool the general public into thinking there are many, many individual votes behind certain candidates. The emphasis on the numbers creates this. It allows big business to have more influence than I think it should have.

A $200,000 donation from Morgan Stanley should not send the message to the media and then the public, that someone is qualified for the job.

[Smiling JOe]

many large corporations (I want to say "most"), give money to any candidate who they think has a shot in hell chance of winning. They like to remind all politicians that the corporation contributed to their campaign. I wonder if BeachSiO2's Christmas card is still at the top of his politician's tree. lol.

[scooterbug44]

It's not just large corporations - people do it at the local level as well.

I'm not as impressed by who makes the most $, I'm impressed by who manages it the best! A major factor IMO considering our exponentially increasing debts and budget overruns!

[Bdarg]

many large corporations (I want to say "most"), give money to any candidate who they think has a shot in hell chance of winning. They like to remind all politicians that the corporation contributed to their campaign. I wonder if BeachSiO2's Christmas card is still at the top of his politician's tree. lol.


Most of that "many" give to multiple candidates in the same race, i.e. hedging one's bet.

I have seen the average donations of Paul's members, however I have not seen the high/low donor figures. Was it 55,999 giving a buck each and some future defendant of election money launderer charges giving the other $5,940,001? Anytime politics are involved, you have to ask.

[ckhagen]

It was 57,668 donors with an average donation size of $103 each. They feed that information to independent grassroots guys who specialize in stats and post it all in charts like here... http://paulcash.slact.net/
If you click on the Tea Party 07 link, you can follow the chart there at the bottom to see the average donation sizes throughout the day.
I know a couple of people who "Maxed Out" to the $2300 mark, but most people I know gave around $50 and the majority of people I know, didn't donate at all (Christmas is coming, makes it rough, myself included). I guess, I'm not really getting how you think your scenario (money laundering?) is possible. These were nearly all credit card donations taken online with the exception of phoned in donations.

Last quarter, the FEC report showed that his average donation IIRC, was approximately $40 each. We won't know how the other candidates numbers play out until January... they don't have quite the same level of real-time transparancy. We really have no clue how much they've even raised, much less the number of donors or size of donation. That will come with the FEC report in January.

Not really related to fundraising, but I was checking this out today... http://blog.compete.com/2007/12/11/republicans-ron-paul-guiliani-romney-mccain-huckabee-thompson-if-clicks-equaled-votes/
They also have one that covers DEMs linked on there.

[BeachSiO2]

I wonder if BeachSiO2's Christmas card is still at the top of his politician's tree. lol.

Thanks for the plug but it doesn't really matter anymore if they moved it :biggrin:. I found out yesterday that my project survived the Congressional Omnibus process and was funded while many earmarks were completely cut out. Now it will go to the President and we'll see what happens. Thank you sweet little 8lb 6oz baby Jesus for no line item veto ;-)

[BabyJesus]

It wasn't me.