Level Dunes...insert more condos

[SHELLY]

Condo that would destroy part of beach dune draws controversy

SEAGROVE BEACH — Plans for a small development are stirring up some big controversy over sand dunes.

Angelos, a 24-unit condominium project, is slated for 3.57 acres of gulf-front property south of San Roy Road.

It might have gone unnoticed because of its small size in relation to many other developments in South Walton County.

But the developer’s plan to tear up a portion of a primary dune system on the property is getting attention.

http://www.nwfdailynews.com/article/7378

[DD]

:eek:

[Smiling JOe]

I'm glad to see that guy in the vid clip trying to stop the development on the sand dunes. However, one thing that comes to mind is that the property under his condo used to be the sand dunes, too. Keeping that in mind, it almost makes me think that he just doesn't want his view blocked.

[SHELLY]

I'm glad to see that guy in the vid clip trying to stop the development on the sand dunes. However, one thing that comes to mind is that the property under his condo used to be the sand dunes, too. Keeping that in mind, it almost makes me think that he just doesn't want his view blocked.

DING! We've got a winner.


.

[florida girl]

I fail to understand how the insurance companies provide insurance for projects that most probably will suffer damage in hurricanes due to the unstability of sand dunes, and somebody obviously sold him the property with the dream of developing and making millions. With as much money as he thinks will be made at stake, most likely all stops will come out. I frankly blame the insurance companies and the real estate persons who spin the tale.

[scooterbug44]

Reading the article, one thing jumped out at me. The building is being built "seaward of the Coastal Control Line". Is that a typo/misunderstanding? I thought you couldn't have any enclosed construction (just porches or decks) over this line, and even that was changed with the last building code revision.........

[yippie]

Here is the entire article as it printed in today's paper.





‘It has withstood hurricane after hurricane and it’s still there’
Condo on dunes creates sand storm
Residents in South Walton County want developer to redesign project so dunes aren’t destroyed
By HEATHER CIVIL heatherc@nwfdailynews.com


****SEAGROVE BEACH — Plans for a small development are stirring up some big controversy over sand dunes.
****Angelos, a 24-unit condominium project, is slated for 3.57 acres of gulf-front property south of San Roy Road.
****It might have gone unnoticed because of its small size in relation to many other developments in South Walton County.
****But the developer’s plan to tear up a portion of a primary dune system on the property is getting attention.
****“Everyone would really like it (the dune system) preserved,” said Meg Nelson, president of the Walton County Coastal Dune Lake Advisory Board.
****Angelos still needs approval from the county and the state Department of Environmental Protection before construction can happen.
****The Walton County Commission will discuss the project at a meeting Aug. 14.
****Locals and some experts think the developer, William Wilson, should redesign the project, which they say could possibly destroy or damage several thousand square feet of the dune system.
****Wilson could not be reached for comment.
****Bill Mancil lives near the Angelos project site. He worries the condominiums will destroy a dune system that offers protection for nearby structures during storms.
****“It has withstood hurricane after hurricane, and it’s still there,” Mancil said.
****The roughly 31-foot-tall primary dune is part of a large dune system held together by the roots of vegetation such as sea oats.
****The condominiums, if built as planned, will destroy some vegetation on the landward side of the dune.
****The developer is offering something in return for building the condos.
****Project plans include the addition of about 4,000 cubic yards of new sand and sea oats to restore the gulf side of the dune, which has eroded over time.
****However, restoring the gulf side of the dune will not make up for the damage done to the landward side if construction moves forward as planned, some say.
****It can take a long time for newly planted sea oats to develop a root system strong enough to hold a dune together during a storm event, such as a hurricane, Brad Pickel said.
****Walton County has retained Pickel as a coastal management expert on the Angelos project. Pickel is the former beach management director for the Walton County Tourist Development Council.
****The new sea oats and sand at the Angelos site would have to escape storms for several seasons to become strong enough to support the dune, Pickel said.
****“It has to have time to establish,” Pickel said.
****A primary dune, such as the one at the Angelos project site, provides storm protection to the upland areas, including buildings.
****The dune also provides good habitat for many species, including the federally endangered Choctawhatchee beach mouse.
****It’s not known whether any beach mice reside on the property in question, but it’s possible, said Billy McKee, environmental planning manager for Walton County.
****If the condominium project moves forward, that’s something the developer will have to determine.
****The dune on the Angelos property is probably more than 50 years old, McKee said.
****Replacing old vegetation with new vegetation is “not the same thing,” he said.
****Walton County requires Angelos preserve 95 percent of the vegetation on the property because the project is being built seaward of the Coastal Construction Control Line, McKee said.
****Projects built seaward of that invisible line must meet specific requirements set by the county and DEP designed to preserve the beaches and dune systems.
****The plans for Angelos as they are now do not preserve enough of the existing vegetation to meet the county’s requirement, McKee said.
****There is an alternative that could preserve the dune and vegetation while allowing the developer to build the condominiums.
****The footprint of the building needs to be reduced by about 8,700 square feet, McKee said.
****However, the developer has not been receptive to that idea, he added.
****“They have so far been unwilling to do that (footprint change),” he said.
****Mancil and others hope the county will not allow the project to move forward as planned.
****If the developer would change the project to offer less damage to the dune, there might not be as much opposition to it, he said.
****“They’re stretching the limits on too many things,” he said.

Photos by DEBI HAUSSERMANN | Daily News Established dunes along Beachside Drive and the Gulf of Mexico in South Walton County may soon be affected by a proposed condominium. Local residents are afraid that destruction of the primary dune will cause severe problems when the next hurricane hits the area.



Hal Smith talks Thursday about a proposed 24-unit condominium some say would destroy a primary dune. To see a video of the dune system, go to nwfdailynews.









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Article
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[Babyblue]

DING! We've got a winner.


.

No, we all lose if this goes forward.

[SHELLY]

No, we all lose if this goes forward.

Who on earth (that wants one) doesn't already own an overpriced pre-construction Florida condominium--or 2 or 3??

I just hope the developer doesn't pull an "Aquatera." (Leaving behind a weed-covered parcel and an Auction sign.)



.

[Beach Runner]

Who on earth (that wants one) doesn't already own an overpriced pre-construction Florida condominium--or 2 or 3??


IMO the startling increase in high-density developments are leading to the demise of the 30-A area. We are already seeing traffic congestion, people fighting over space on the beach, beach crowding leading to more crap on the beach, problems with not enough beach accesses, parking problems at beach accesses, neighborhoods becoming gated communities to keep people from using their private property as a public beach access, etc. Like I said on another thread, it's not the 30-A of five years ago. We have less beach and more people. I don't see the size of the beach increasing any time soon, but as long as the board of county commissioners continues to approve high-density developments, the number of people and vehicles will continue to increase. A two-lane road like 30-A can only handle so many vehicles before it reaches its saturation point.

Actually I know where the guy in the video is standing. We have driven over there to see what all of the controversy is about. I believe he will lose his southwestern view, but I think he will still have a southern view and a nice western view of sunsets (except in the winter when it sets more to the southwest).

[SHELLY]

IMO the startling increase in high-density developments are leading to the demise of the 30-A area. We are already seeing traffic congestion, people fighting over space on the beach, beach crowding leading to more crap on the beach, problems with not enough beach accesses, parking problems at beach accesses, neighborhoods becoming gated communities to keep people from using their private property as a public beach access, etc. Like I said on another thread, it's not the 30-A of five years ago. We have less beach and more people. I don't see the size of the beach increasing any time soon, but as long as the board of county commissioners continues to approve high-density developments, the number of people and vehicles will continue to increase. A two-lane road like 30-A can only handle so many vehicles before it reaches its saturation point.
.

But wait!....There's more!! We've still got the International Airport, Minnie-Disney and Joe-Bob's On-Again-Off-Again Animal Park to factor in!

Hang on to your wigs and keys...it's gonna be an interesting ride. Better pitch your tent on the beach today to ensure you've got a space.


.

[John Hall]

development is good,

too much is bad unless its planned

yep more inventory to sit

are they gonna build a sea wall to ha ha

[tc]

I have two questions...
1. Do we really need more condos?
2. And from which out-of-state brown beach do they plan on getting the "new sand"?

[SHELLY]

I have two questions...
1. Do we really need more condos?
2. And from which out-of-state brown beach do they plan on getting the "new sand"?

1. As long as there is a sliver of gulf view along the coast or a slab of granite on earth without a home--we MUST continue building condos. The baby boomers are coming for gosh sakes!!

2. No need to go out of town for sand...they just stick a ship offshore to suck up sand, broken shells and sea turtles and blow them onto the beach--it's like walking among shards of glass.

.

[pk305]

Exactly where in Seagrove is this??

[Seagrove Lover]

Dear Shelly,

Where do you live? In one of those house or condo's that does not belong on the beacheach. Or are you are just a citizen from afara that just love an unspoiled beach. I suggest at one time your house or condo was not there also and you destoroyed someone's paradise. Give it a break, you live here too. Let others build and come and enjoy it or move on. I am tired off listening to you and others codemnation of builders as evil. It is not just your paradise. It is mine and others too. Responsible builder are building on their land. You live here somewhere so your house is an abomination also. Get over it:angry: !

[SHELLY]

Dear Shelly,

I am tired off listening to you and others codemnation of builders as evil. !




Might I suggest then that you DON'T pick up a copy of next week's Business Week Magazine. <COVER STORY: Bonfire of the Builders>


http://images.businessweek.com/mz/07/33/0733covdv.jpg


http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_33/b4046601.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index_top+stor y



.

[goodwitch58]

Dear Shelly,

Where do you live? In one of those house or condo's that does not belong on the beacheach. Or are you are just a citizen from afara that just love an unspoiled beach. I suggest at one time your house or condo was not there also and you destoroyed someone's paradise. Give it a break, you live here too. Let others build and come and enjoy it or move on. I am tired off listening to you and others codemnation of builders as evil. It is not just your paradise. It is mine and others too. Responsible builder are building on their land. You live here somewhere so your house is an abomination also. Get over it:angry: !

Responsible builders:idontno:

[scooterbug44]

Big difference between a "responsible builder" creating a single family home so that more people can can live in or visit the area and those who build, build, build as much (or more) than allowed with no regard to the environmental impact, limitations of the roads & emergency services, character of the neighborhood etc.

[John R]

as you know, i am for the preservation of our dunes. interesting camera point of view though, showing houses on his street and the next street over, closer to the water...

[Smiling JOe]

as you know, i am for the preservation of our dunes. interesting camera point of view though, showing houses on his street and the next street over, closer to the water...Those are condos. That is the interesting rub to me. The gentleman is preaching from the condo which probably has dunes in its name, because that is where the dunes once existed. I think to make a better point of the story, they could have found someone to interview who wasn't indirectly connected to the adjacent dunes to the subject property's east, being removed.

[John R]

Those are condos. That is the interesting rub to me. The gentleman is preaching from the condo which probably has dunes in its name, because that is where the dunes once existed. I think to make a better point of the story, they could have found someone to interview who wasn't indirectly connected to the adjacent dunes to the subject property's east, being removed.

condos or houses, our points are the same. there's already development beyond where he's arguing about.

[scooterbug44]

Following that logic, they should be allowed to build condo blocks the size of One Seagrove Place all along 30A because there is already one there.

[Beach Runner]

Big difference between a "responsible builder" creating a single family home so that more people can can live in or visit the area and those who build, build, build as much (or more) than allowed with no regard to the environmental impact, limitations of the roads & emergency services, character of the neighborhood etc.
Amen, brother.

as you know, i am for the preservation of our dunes. interesting camera point of view though, showing houses on his street and the next street over, closer to the water...
Circled is the dune in question. Yes, the condo to its right is closer to the water. But it was built in 1984 before the land development code existed, so the fact that it's closer to the water is irrelevant. Maybe you need to walk this property like we have to see what the fuss is about. Oh, and BTW, there are 24 units proposed for that location.

http://home.earthlink.net/~beachrunner/angelos.jpg

[John R]

Following that logic, they should be allowed to build condo blocks the size of One Seagrove Place all along 30A because there is already one there.

that's apparently how our commissioners are leaning, based on current history.

guys/girls, i am not for the development. i guess we need the dripping with irony smilie...

and have no need to walk the property.

[Beach Runner]

that's apparently how our commissioners are leaning, based on current history.

guys/girls, i am not for the development. i guess we need the dripping with irony smilie...

and have no need to walk the property.
Please excuse me for making a false assumption, okay? BTW we walked it because we just wanted to see firsthand what all the fuss was about.

[BeachSiO2]

Please excuse me for making a false assumption, okay? BTW we walked it because we just wanted to see firsthand what all the fuss was about.

From your photograph, it looks like the dune is almost the entire lot. Are you saying that you walked "on the dune"? :nono1: ;-)

[SHELLY]

From your photograph, it looks like the dune is almost the entire lot. Are you saying that you walked "on the dune"? :nono1: ;-)


That's nothing compared to what the Caterpillar bulldozer and a crew of illegals are going to do to it soon.


.

[goodwitch58]

can someone explain to me why any investor/developer is building anything more in SoWal right now? There is so much inventory, so few sales, and it is becoming so overcrowded....

I can see someone building a house to live in or rent...but a condo complex?

Do developers not do market research the way other business people do? :idontno:

[Miss Kitty]

can someone explain to me why any investor/developer is building [b]anything[b] more in SoWal right now? There is so much inventory, so few sales, and it is becoming so overcrowded....

I can see someone building a house to live in or rent...but a condo complex?

Do developers not do market research the way other business people do? :idontno:

:floor: ...I am not laughing at you goodwitch, but greed trumps everything...even good sense!

[Beach Runner]

From your photograph, it looks like the dune is almost the entire lot. Are you saying that you walked "on the dune"? :nono1: ;-)
LOL. No, we walked the perimeter. BTW my "circle" is an approximation. The Google photo doesn't show the fence that exists now which delineates the north side of the property.

[BeachSiO2]

LOL. No, we walked the perimeter. BTW my "circle" is an approximation. The Google photo doesn't show the fence that exists now which delineates the north side of the property.

:biggrin:

[goodwitch58]

Miss Kitty, I understand that greed trumps everything in some people; but, even greed won't work here when there is so much unsold and the overbuilding is destroying the very thing that makes the area attractive which makes the greed "work."

Oh, hell, you're right-- there is no good sense in this situation.....

[scooterbug44]

I think that if logic was the determining factor they wouldn't be building condos 1) on a dune 2) out of scale with the the neighborhood 3) in an area w/ limited access 4) with "private" beach

[Miss Kitty]

Miss Kitty, I understand that greed trumps everything in some people; but, even greed won't work here when there is so much unsold and the overbuilding is destroying the very thing that makes the area attractive which makes the greed "work."

Oh, hell, you're right-- there is no good sense in this situation.....

:bang: ...I know, it sux. What can we do???? :idontno: Help me...I can pay taxes, but cannot vote! :blink:

[tc]

Dear Shelly,

Where do you live? In one of those house or condo's that does not belong on the beacheach. Or are you are just a citizen from afara that just love an unspoiled beach. I suggest at one time your house or condo was not there also and you destoroyed someone's paradise. Give it a break, you live here too. Let others build and come and enjoy it or move on. I am tired off listening to you and others codemnation of builders as evil. It is not just your paradise. It is mine and others too. Responsible builder are building on their land. You live here somewhere so your house is an abomination also. Get over it:angry: !

"Responsible Building" is based on supply and demand. I don't know if you've driven around SOWAL lately but the supply outweighs the demand considerably. There are more than 20 vacant, (yes, vacant-non furnished) homes in my neigborhood alone just sitting, most with the A/C cranking. Let's use logic....

[alabama]

SeaGrove Lover, I agree, also, is that not a private beach ??? if that is the real issue with these people, plus just dont want anything built. Suggestion, all opposed buy the land, have the beach and no building....solved

[Seagrove Lover]

Good Discusson:

Lets me disclose I own a unit at Sugar Dunes. The ones next to the development. So I am affected.

The land was always going to be developed. I knew that when I purchased. The property would be lovely not to have anything developed, however lets understand why "this board" even exists. You, me and even Shelly love this area. I understand why others want to come here. My point was that you were probably not a native and we all came at some point to the area to live in a house that was once not there. Without places to live, or rent then no more Shellys or seagrove lovers are going to come. Just because we have one (or more) why should everyone else stop building so we can have it the same way it was when we built or purchased.

On one other note. The area is only stalled in development. Believe me the inventory is going to sell and more will be needed. It is paradise. Those of you looking short term see too much inventory. This is temporary due to many pressures. It is just the start of the building.

Shelly get out while you can, or are you enjoying the value increase (long-term) as I am. ;-)

[Beach Runner]

:bang: ...I know, it sux. What can we do???? :idontno: Help me...I can pay taxes, but cannot vote! :blink:
Voice your opinions by attending Planning Commission and BCC meetings. If you can't attend the meetings, you can email, snail mail, fax, or phone the Planning Department and the members of the BCC. All of their info is on the Walton County website.

[SHELLY]

Shelly get out while you can, or are you enjoying the value increase (long-term) as I am. ;-)


My definition of "value" is very much different than yours.


.

[Seagrove Lover]

Yes shelly I suspect we will look at most things on opposing sides. Is that ok?:blink:

[sandflea]

I remember when there was nothing between the Back Porch and Panama City Beach but the Gulf to the south and pine trees to the north.

As much as I love for ppl to come here and fall in love with my home, I still cringe when I see another development. Kinda contradicts my career :blink:

[goodwitch58]

Seagrove Lover

might it be you who is looking short term...

[SHELLY]

Yes shelly I suspect we will look at most things on opposing sides. Is that ok?:blink:

I've got no problem with that. :idontno:

....let me remind you that you're the one with issues as stated in an earlier post:

"I am tired off listening to you and others codemnation of builders as evil. It is not just your paradise. It is mine and others too."

.

[alabama]

THIS IS TO ALL, i have been following all of the threads posted, you are all spending your energy to stop a building, something at some time will probably be put there. Have you thought of spending your energy and tax dollars to contact all the commissioners, and ask for your walton county taxes to protect what you do not wish for???? or is this just a case of being bored, and now hey there is something for us to rally and fight, just a thought?
:idontno:

[John R]

THIS IS TO ALL, i have been following all of the threads posted...

apparently not.

[Beach Runner]

THIS IS TO ALL, i have been following all of the threads posted, you are all spending your energy to stop a building, something at some time will probably be put there. Have you thought of spending your energy and tax dollars to contact all the commissioners, and ask for your walton county taxes to protect what you do not wish for???? or is this just a case of being bored, and now hey there is something for us to rally and fight, just a thought?
:idontno:
I have written many letters. First, a developer's proposal goes to the Planning Department. To express your concerns, contact:

Walton County Planning & Development Services
Pat Blackshear, Planning and Development Services Director
31 Coastal Center Blvd, Ste 130
Santa Rosa Beach, FL 32459
Telephone: (850) 267-1955
Fax: (850) 622-9133
blapat@co.walton.fl.us

Then the developer's proposal goes before the Planning Commission. If they approve the recommendation of the Planning Department, it goes before the BCC (Board of County Commissioners). You can contact them as follows:

District 1:
Scott Brannon
19367 U.S. Hwy 331 S
Freeport, FL 32439
Tel: (850) 835-4860
Fax: (850) 835-4836
E-mail: brascott@co.walton.fl.us

District 2:
Kenneth Pridgen
17400 State Highway 83 North
DeFuniak Springs, FL 32433
Phone: (850) 834-6328
Fax: (850) 834-6385
Email: prikenneth@co.walton.fl.us

District 3:
Larry Jones
1483 County Highway 1087
DeFuniak Springs, FL. 32435
Phone: (850) 892-8474
Fax: (850)892-8475
e-mail: jonlarry@co.walton.fl.us

District 4:
Sara Comander
(850) 835-4834.
417 Highway 20 East
Freeport, FL 32439
Email: comsara@co.walton.fl.us

District 5:
Cindy Meadows
90 Spires Lane, Unit 7-A
Santa Rosa Beach, FL. 32459
Phone: (850) 622-3059
Fax: (850) 622-3067
e-mail: meacindy@co.walton.fl.us

[scooterbug44]

If you had read all the threads, you would have noted that people are frequently asked to contact their county commissioners (at the posted email and phone numbers) and attend meetings (at the locations & times given) to fight the issues/projects being discussed.

[alabama]

There is the word FIGHT, what are you FIGHTING for, complete preservation or no more buildings.
:idontno:

[John R]

There is the word FIGHT, what are you FIGHTING for, complete preservation or no more buildings.
:idontno:

yeah, that's the ticket...no more buildings, anywhere. i'll FIGHT the bulldozer operator as soon as he turns the key, yeah, that's it.

did you read your question before you hit the 'post' button?

[seaside2]

:floor: ...I am not laughing at you goodwitch, but greed trumps everything...even good sense!
Amen, sister!!!

[scooterbug44]

There is the word FIGHT, what are you FIGHTING for, complete preservation or no more buildings.
:idontno:
Neither! Stopping all growth is unrealistic and wrong. However, there are certain projects that NEED to be fought because of their size and impact. You will note that in many cases the outrage is because, through loopholes or bad decisions, projects are planned & approved that are technically not allowed by their zoning.

[Beach Runner]

Neither! Stopping all growth is unrealistic and wrong. However, there are certain projects that NEED to be fought because of their size and impact. You will note that in many cases the outrage is because, through loopholes or bad decisions, projects are planned & approved that are technically not allowed by their zoning.
That's what I'm talkin' about!!!!!