Is small the new big???

[Chickpea]

Interested in your thoughts here. I know this market skews things in Sowal as so many people vacation here and, furthermore, I think that programs for second and third homes for some are more flexible - so to keep this on point let's assume we are talking ONLY about one's principal residence.

I recently attended a seminar that looked at the increasing national trend toward quality spaces (meaning: away from the McMansion to smaller, better-built homes). The demand for building smaller is becoming louder and is coming from homeowners who want comfortable places to live that are “right-sized”; making them more sustainable, energy-efficient, and economic to build. I personally love the idea of exploring the topic of smaller houses from the perspective of design, development and marketing. Given also national trend of a higher consciousness towards being more sustainable and a better steward of the land- does this not make sense to you guys? (not to mention the advantages of less to furnish, insure, heat, cool, clean, etc…)

[jdarg]

"The Not So Big House" is one of our favorite books. McMansions are ridiculous.

Several years ago, we had considered building in KY, and had house plans based on this concept of quality vs. quantity. All spaces would be used at some time during the day- no empty rooms or cavernous spaces that would have to be filled with furniture but not people.

[SGB]

I also love "The Not So Big House" book and concept. Jdarg - I have the "Creating the Not So Big House" book if you ever want to borrow it.

[jdarg]

I also love "The Not So Big House" book and concept. Jdarg - I have the "Creating the Not So Big House" book if you ever want to borrow it.


Thanks- I might! I need to read the "Not so Much Stuff" book first.:bang:

[peapod1980]

Given also national trend of a higher consciousness towards being more sustainable and a better steward of the land- does this not make sense to you guys? (not to mention the advantages of less to furnish, insure, heat, cool, clean, etc…)
We have been following this trend/school of thought/movement for the last few years. We are big fans of the whole "prefab" design movement, though I find the "prefab" label a bit of misnomer since a lot of what falls into that category is actually more on the level of high design and high quality. We live in a relatively small home on a modest-size lot, and I honestly feel it's enough space for us, even though it calls for a lot of togetherness to live this way. That's OK with me. If we would ever build a house--not likely, but just for the sake of discussion--I know we'd do it to be able to design exactly what we wanted rather than gain more space. I know of a married couple roughly in their 50s, no kids, currently living in a huge home who have just sold that home to build an even grander (in every sense of the word) one. Why?! To me, that is just irresponsible on so many levels.

[Miss Kitty]

I figured this concept out after living large for 7 years in "Mr. K's" house. Lovely 1926 home on 1/2 acre treed lot. By today's Starter Castle standards, it's 5100 sq ft. was hardly considered large (now they are building them up to 8 or 9,000 sq.ft. on that street). Personally, I felt like I was always losing things and people in that house. When we moved in 2000, we "lost" about 2,000 sq. ft. and I now feel at home. However, I REALLY feel at home in 1600 sq. ft. in sowal! :wave:

[SHELLY]

Too little...to late. Over the last couple decades we've wasted far too many resources (forrests, farms/orchards/beaches, minerals, metals, GRANITE) and too much energy building and maintaining too-big and too-tall "living spaces" (with many, many more to come) that today stand empty. What a shame.


.

[Smiling JOe]

The Not So Big House, while better than most mcmansions, the designs are still fairly oversized, in my opinion. I have been preaching your message for a number of years now, for many reasons. I have a couple of interesting titles for you, but I'll have to dig them out and post later.

[RiverOtter]

Hey Chick, I moved from a 1,900 sq ft house (blt in 1940) so no thought to space to a 5,000 sq footer. I can honestly say I am ready to move down to 3,500 maybe 4,000 very well planned sq ft.

[dbuck]

Too little...to late. Over the last couple decades we've wasted far too many resources (forrests, farms/orchards/beaches, minerals, metals, GRANITE) and too much energy building and maintaining too-big and too-tall "living spaces" (with many, many more to come) that today stand empty. What a shame.


.

But . . . the pendulum always swings back.

[RiverOtter]

Too little...to late. Over the last couple decades we've wasted far too many resources (forrests, farms/orchards/beaches, minerals, metals, GRANITE) and too much energy building and maintaining too-big and too-tall "living spaces" (with many, many more to come) that today stand empty. What a shame.


.


Shelly....... did you just hug a tree :blink:

[Smiling JOe]

One book for you, with all the designs, less than 1250sf, is The Big Book of Small House Designs (http://www.amazon.com/Book-Small-House-Designs-Award-Winning/dp/1579123651/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-6581963-3098063?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1185752576&sr=8-1). Another is Good House Cheap House: Adventures in Creating an Extraordinary Home at an Everyday Price (http://www.amazon.com/Good-House-Cheap-Adventures-Extraordinary/dp/1561587524/ref=pd_sim_b_3_img/105-6581963-3098063?ie=UTF8&qid=1185752576&sr=8-1)

Some designs are quite impressive. Remember that our population is aging and they will not be able to handle stairs as easily as younger people. Nor, will many want to be so spread out with only one or two people in the house. Insurance in the coastal areas will also push people to smaller homes, less expensive to replace. There are green aspects to smaller tighter homes, too. I've often said that a community calling itself green needs to be sure to keep the homes small, especially if the homes are empty much of the time.

[goodwitch58]

I drove around yesterday looking at new developments/towns/communities in Sowal and West PCB for a customer. I am concerned at the number of really big houses, on tiny lots, that are in various stages of completion....and the communities are close to being empty.

Who is going to buy and live in all these places? Did anyone identify a market for these houses before they built them?

What so may people ask for is "a little Florida beach house.." but, there are none. The older ones were all torn down to make way for the big houses with granite countertops I guess.

I love to hug the trees...before they are bulldozed by a developer:eek:

[Miss Kitty]

Hey Chick, I moved from a 1,900 sq ft house (blt in 1940) so no thought to space to a 5,000 sq footer. I can honestly say I am ready to move down to 3,500 maybe 4,000 very well planned sq ft.

Happens all the time. That space looks good on paper. You and I should have rented all that space before we bought! :biggrin: I still don't know what people need with 7, 8 or more sq. ft.! :blink:

[SHELLY]

But . . . the pendulum always swings back.

Only if they'll level all the McMansions and condos and put the beaches and wetlands back again....Not.

.

[SHELLY]

Shelly....... did you just hug a tree :blink:

You mean there's a tree here???? :shock:



.

[seacrestkristi]

:bow:

[SHELLY]

I drove around yesterday looking at new developments/towns/communities in Sowal and West PCB for a customer. I am concerned at the number of really big houses, on tiny lots, that are in various stages of completion....and the communities are close to being empty.

Who is going to buy and live in all these places? Did anyone identify a market for these houses before they built them?


The market was for the investulators...but they're all trying to dump and run now.


.

[RiverOtter]

Happens all the time. That space looks good on paper. You and I should have rented all that space before we bought! :biggrin: I still don't know what people need with 7, 8 or more sq. ft.! :blink:


I was working in the back yard today and at one time could hear all 3 ac units running :bang: Can't wait to see that bill :bang:

[Gypsea]

Ask Mr. Smallbox! ;-)

[Gypsea]

Personally, I'm ready to downsize. :D

[Rambunkscious]

I'm with you GYPSEA!!!

On the issue of small vs larger homes, some practical perspectives need to be accounted for. Keep in mind, most of these larger homes were built in the recent boom. Building lots were a million bucks and more. When you pay that kind of bucks for a building lot, you mean you are gonna put a small, bare bones house on it???? You almost have to put a larger deluxe house on a lot that costs that much. Hindsight is 20-20, if we had known that the market would be krapper bound, & that the lot prices would also go in the krapper, maybe smaller houses would make some economic sense. I was never very good at fortune telling.

[Smiling JOe]

Only if they'll level all the McMansions and condos and put the beaches and wetlands back again....Not.

.Funny you say that, because about five years ago, my thoughts of this first began. To whom are they marketing these huge homes? Back then, anyone would buy them. However, I don't think they were thinking about the retiring baby boomers getting old. I think we will one day see these huge homes gutted, and rebuilt with three kitchens and and elevator, converting one home into three unit condos for the aging population.

[seacrestkristi]

Ask Mr. Smallbox! ;-)

:lolabove: :lolabove: :lolabove:

[PC Snoop]

When any of you'll are ready to build right size and green, give me a call. I have all the sources at my fingertips. "Prefab" or systems-built (6 different companies) that will withstand the nasty (occasionally) weather between beautiful sunny days, Insulated and sealed tight as a drum so you do not need 3 A/C's. Even have financing for energy efficient loans on your lot. And most importantly, it will look like the house next door, if that is what you want or the architectural review board :yikes: will allow.

[iqueequeg]

We built our 3300 sf house in a Boston suburb 10 years ago, and believe it or not were told it was too small for the neighborhood (average size in our neighborhood is 6000-7000 sf ). Our house was architect designed, the spaces all flow, and it has "curb appeal" from some of the nice touches the architect added. We put it on the market 2 months ago and it sold within a month. There are 3 other houses within a block that have been on the market for over a year. One of them was only priced a little more than ours, and is 6000 sf. The owners of that house actually approached our agent and said "I don't understand why they didn't buy our house-it's so much bigger!"

It seems to me that this McMansion trend is an exercise in circular logic, where the initial builder and subsequent buyers require features that they don't need but think some future buyer will want. People build as much space as they can afford, because the "investment" part of the home purchase says the bigger the better, right? Then they add features that they never even plan on using (when's the last time you used your whirlpool tub?) because "buyers in this price range will expect it". They scrimp on things that actually make a house more livable, but that don't add square footage, like using an architect, adding porches, and adding exterior finishes that make a house look inviting. Then at the end, they're out of money so half the rooms end up undecorated and unused.

This kind of thinking is perpetuated by listings that compare prices per square foot, particularly in developments like Watercolor or Rosemary. It implies that the houses are otherwise identical, so you should simply buy the one that has the cheapest price per square foot. Instead, buy the one that you like, and that works for you. Chances are, when the time comes to sell, you'll find someone else who likes it too.

[NoHall]

Hey Chick, I moved from a 1,900 sq ft house (blt in 1940) so no thought to space to a 5,000 sq footer. I can honestly say I am ready to move down to 3,500 maybe 4,000 very well planned sq ft.

I think I'm winning the "undersized" house contest here. I'm at 1232 sq ft. Granted, I live alone. If I had kids, this place would be crowded. But it's perfect for me, and I can clean it from tip to tail in under 2 hours.

You mean there's a tree here???? :shock:


I was working in the back yard today and at one time could hear all 3 ac units running :bang: Can't wait to see that bill :bang:

Did I mention that I live in the Deep South and don't have central ac? I have a giant tree instead, right between me and the afternoon sun.

I really don't understand the concept of living in something so large unless there are 6 or more children living at home.

[tistheseason]

Funny you say that, because about five years ago, my thoughts of this first began. To whom are they marketing these huge homes? Back then, anyone would buy them. However, I don't think they were thinking about the retiring baby boomers getting old. I think we will one day see these huge homes gutted, and rebuilt with three kitchens and and elevator, converting one home into three unit condos for the aging population.

I think you are on to something here! I think this a great idea. Maybe we should start buying them up and converting them. . . the baby boomers will be ready for them soon!

Want to go into business together? :D

[Mermaid]

Interested in your thoughts here. I know this market skews things in Sowal as so many people vacation here and, furthermore, I think that programs for second and third homes for some are more flexible - so to keep this on point let's assume we are talking ONLY about one's principal residence.

I recently attended a seminar that looked at the increasing national trend toward quality spaces (meaning: away from the McMansion to smaller, better-built homes). The demand for building smaller is becoming louder and is coming from homeowners who want comfortable places to live that are “right-sized”; making them more sustainable, energy-efficient, and economic to build. I personally love the idea of exploring the topic of smaller houses from the perspective of design, development and marketing. Given also national trend of a higher consciousness towards being more sustainable and a better steward of the land- does this not make sense to you guys? (not to mention the advantages of less to furnish, insure, heat, cool, clean, etc…)

Chickpea, your last sentence brings to mind my parents. About five years ago they sold the house I grew up in--a rambling 4 bedroom in the Boston suburbs--and downsized to a 1200 sq ft condo in Naples. It took them a full year to get rid of a lifetime's accumulated stuff (I think the mental anguish in reducing took as much time as the physical aspect of tossing and/or giving away ;-) ).

My father is a talented engineer and he fully gutted the circa 1980s condo, refiguring the spaces to make everything useful, much as Susan Susanka has preached for years. My parent's 1200 sq ft lives like someone else's 2400. Proof positive that it's not not how much you have, but what you do with it. My mother--who initially resisted downsizing--now says that when you have less to take care of, you have more time to do what you really want to do. Like have funn.

[John R]

my first house was 900sf, great to live in, but a little hard/small to run my business out of(tv's take up a lot of space)

second house was 1518sf, perfect. i miss it a lot.

current house is 1519sf, one more than perfect:cool:

when i move back west, i think i'd like to build smaller. just have one guest room instead of two. possibly an out-building for the truck and shop.

i've got my eye on this(available in steel): http://www.lamidesign.com/plans/planscat/0242/0242pg.html

some links: http://www.fabprefab.com/
http://livemodern.com/home

[BeachSiO2]

This is right up my alley. We are closing on 1440 sqft of living space later today, not counting porches.:clap:

I think it will be a good size for us since our last two have been 1022 sqft (too small) and 2370 sqft (too big). Now that I've typed it, I see that it sounds like the Goldilocks and the three bears.. just right ;-)

[jdarg]

This is right up my alley. We are closing on 1440 sqft of living space later today, not counting porches.:clap:

I think it will be a good size for us since our last two have been 1022 sqft (too small) and 2370 sqft (too big). Now that I've typed it, I see that it sounds like the Goldilocks and the three bears.. just right ;-)

:clap:

Our first house was about 1200, and we had Will, 2 dogs and 3 cats packed in it. But Bdarg had gutted the entire house and put it back together to fit us and our needs, so it actually worked better for than the next house, which was 3000+. The current house is just right.;-)

[BeachSiO2]

:clap:

Our first house was about 1200, and we had Will, 2 dogs and 3 cats packed in it. But Bdarg had gutted the entire house and put it back together to fit us and our needs, so it actually worked better for than the next house, which was 3000+. The current house is just right.;-)

Thanks JDarg. I guess I should add the disclaimer that there are only 2 of us with no pets so smaller is ok!

[jdarg]

Thanks JDarg. I guess I should add the disclaimer that there are only 2 of us with no pets so smaller is ok!

Actually, it's not the pets taking up all the space. Will has 2 rooms- a bedroom AND an office.:lol: You know all 14 year olds need an office. We couldn't fit his bed, bookshelves, dresser, desk, computer and gaming stuff, etc. into one room, so he slowly worked his way into the back bedroom too.:roll:

[BeachSiO2]

Actually, it's not the pets taking up all the space. Will has 2 rooms- a bedroom AND an office.:lol: You know all 14 year olds need an office. We couldn't fit his bed, bookshelves, dresser, desk, computer and gaming stuff, etc. into one room, so he slowly worked his way into the back bedroom too.:roll:

I agree that all 14 year olds do need an office, and that back bedroom would be perfect..;-)

[scooterbug44]

If one is quite generous when measuring, my dwelling is almost 600 sqr ft. I wish I had a bigger closet, but I (and all of my stuff) still fit quite nicely in that space and guests love it.

There are so many great ways to use small spaces to their full potential, instead of building yet another large and soulless room that serves only one function.

Houses should be customized to fit their owners' needs and lifestyle, regardless of "resale features". The amount of money wasted on "commercial grade" appliances that are only used to heat up takeout & leftovers, spa tubs for people who only take showers, formal dining rooms for people who usually eat in the kitchen and don't have dinner parties, multiple guest rooms w/ private baths that sit unused most of the time........

[Smiling JOe]

Houses should be customized to fit their owners' needs and lifestyle, regardless of "resale features". The amount of money wasted on "commercial grade" appliances that are only used to heat up takeout & leftovers, spa tubs for people who only take showers, formal dining rooms for people who usually eat in the kitchen and don't have dinner parties, multiple guest rooms w/ private baths that sit unused most of the time........

You forgot to mention the gourmet kitchens for people who hate to cook.

[BeachSiO2]

You forgot to mention the gourmet kitchens for people who hate to cook.

I always wondered about that one also.. :idontno:

[scooterbug44]

You forgot to mention the gourmet kitchens for people who hate to cook.

That was in the part about the "commercial grade appliances only used to heat up takeout & leftovers".

I don't know who convinces people they need these things, but they are responsible for McMansions!

[beachmouse]

Our house came with an alleged formal dining room, but since I couldn't figure out why we'd need another place to put a dining table when we we already had two of them in the breakfast area and the back porch, it ended up being converted into a library/ study instead.

And given a choice, Mr. Mouse would rather eat on the couch while watching television anyways. Sigh.

[Paula]

Chickpea:

I love the small house movement and I agree that the best known book about small houses is good, though the houses don't seem that small to me (anything over 1500 sq. ft. wouldn't be considered small to me, and 1200 - 1300 would do it for a family of 4-5; would be tight for more than that, though do-able for sure).

If I were considering designing/building small houses:

1) I'd read about how people live together (what they really need to be happy/organized/settled), what supports people living good lives (e.g., being able to connect, yet get some time apart; gathering spaces; storage; safety, spaces for guests, spaces for work-at-home), what young families and elderly really need for good lives. I remember once reading that one problem with really big houses is that no one needs to spend time together, especially with technology. Our house is an old house (close to 100 years old) that has a 1990's addition to add a garage for 2 cars and a family room. The main living spaces on two floors are probably around 1800 square feet, with a basement and attic that are usable. Anyway, what I like is that when I'm sitting in the recliner in the living room with my laptop doing my work (it's a good job), I can hear the kids upstairs -- I like to hear the sound of the girls practicing their dancing in their rooms (it's cute), I can hear them cough (but I can't hear them talking), and I can sometimes hear them laughing -- all sounds I like to hear. The kids don't have computers or TVs in their rooms because the family computer is in the family room and the family TV is in the family room.

2. I really like having porches/decks for outdoor living. Things that extend the space outdoors - in cooler climates, a porch that has windows that can be used much/all of the year as well.

3. I do wish we had a nice separate room for a guest room because we like guests, and I do like a house to have enough space for when the kids come back with their own families when they are adults. We want them to be able to be comfortable here during their stays.

4. Home work spaces are nice (though we just have our shared desk in the basement - I work in the recliner, the kids work at the dining room table)

5. Energy efficient and environmentally friendly, of course.

6. Room enough to entertain with a big table (which probably means shared dining room/living room space so the table can be made bigger or smaller as needed and an efficient kitchen for cooking/storing).

7. Clever storage options to make the most of the space: I'm already starting to get rid of lots of stuff for when the kids grow up and in case we move to a smaller house. If we don't move to a smaller house, then at least we won't be taking care of a lot of stuff we don't need.

8. Very quiet appliances (dishwasher/fridge/airconditioners, heaters/etc.) since you can hear these more clearly in a small space.

Our cottages (as many of you know) are at the Cottages at Camp Creek. I think the architects/builders did a great job creating 3 bedroom (one which holds a king bed comfortably)/2 full bath cottages in 1100 or less square feet. They are easy to navigate, great for one-floor living, look good, are easy care, hurricane sturdy (though not like Alys Beach of course), big porches, and leave the owners a lot of room for personalizing them. The only thing I would do to them over time is add more creative storage (but not too much because the idea is to live simply), add some of that hurricane protection film to the windows if the association lets us do it -- the windows are protected up to 130-140 mph winds I believe already so I'm not sure it's needed (I'll have to confirm this with the builder). Owners can make the inside as fancy or simple as they'd like. For the long-term, we did buy two 1100 square foot side by side cottages so that the kids can use one when they visit with their families someday and be comfortable. And we like to go there with our extended family and friends sometimes so it's nice to spread out. But otherwise one 1100 cottage is more than enough to live in (and we'd continue to rent the other out except for when the kids are using it/them). It's especially big enough because it's warm most of the year so we really think of the porch and the outdoors (pool/beach) as where we live.

Frankly, if people are looking for smaller places along 30A, there are plenty from what I saw and still see, even new construction, if you really want to have a smaller place at the beach.

[PC Snoop]

Thanks for the links John R. :clap: I needed them for some projects I am involved with.

[scooterbug44]

Dwell magazine features a lot of smaller/creative spaces. Some are just too tiny or modern for me, but overall much more compact than the norm. They also feature environmentally friendly products.

[peapod1980]

If any of you are familiar with Rocio Romero, her residence is near St. Louis and open for tours. Anybody who'd like to see it, I'd be happy to plan the field trip! :biggrin:
http://www.rocioromero.com/

[Mango]

Chickpea, it sounds like you've gotten lots of good feedback from people.

and yes, I've put a lot of thought into downsizing and the style and size of whatever I build in Sowal at some point.

........and the first thing that comes to mind is it will just have to be
big enough to fit my Xmas tree and store my ornaments. :lol:

[scooterbug44]

Thanks peapod! She even has a hurricane rated unit that is a nice alternative to a trailer and seems quite reasonably priced!

Storage is usually the deal breaker for folks trying to downsize, but there are many solutions. I love deep window seats w/ storage areas below, additional upper shelves in closets, drawers under beds, dropped ceilings over bathrooms that are storage lofts etc.

[John R]

If any of you are familiar with Rocio Romero, her residence is near St. Louis and open for tours. Anybody who'd like to see it, I'd be happy to plan the field trip! :biggrin:


someday.

[Chickpea]

Thank you all for this excellent feedback (plus I needed a break from the political forum!). Many of you make some excellent points and it is great to see how many of you are willing to downsize and reap the benefits of living smaller. I actually loved reading your personal stories and knowing some of you it has been particularly interesting and enlightening.

I have one question though about something that I hear all the time and my simple brain cannot make it make sense - why do people who pay a lot for a large house always make the argument that they now have to build a large house to make their investment worth it?? What is wrong or fiscally irreponsible about putting a small or medium house on a large lot? It does not devalue one's property and surely the economics of building small and less make it a sounder financial decision.

[Chickpea]

Hey Chick, I moved from a 1,900 sq ft house (blt in 1940) so no thought to space to a 5,000 sq footer. I can honestly say I am ready to move down to 3,500 maybe 4,000 very well planned sq ft.

Hey RO,
How many people live in your house? Also do you work out of your house?
Thanks

[Chickpea]

Thanks peapod! She even has a hurricane rated unit that is a nice alternative to a trailer and seems quite reasonably priced!

Storage is usually the deal breaker for folks trying to downsize, but there are many solutions. I love deep window seats w/ storage areas below, additional upper shelves in closets, drawers under beds, dropped ceilings over bathrooms that are storage lofts etc.

All the ideas you state are great for clever storage. There are a million ways for being resourceful....

[Chickpea]

Chickpea:

I love the small house movement and I agree that the best known book about small houses is good, though the houses don't seem that small to me (anything over 1500 sq. ft. wouldn't be considered small to me, and 1200 - 1300 would do it for a family of 4-5; would be tight for more than that, though do-able for sure).

If I were considering designing/building small houses:

1) I'd read about how people live together (what they really need to be happy/organized/settled), what supports people living good lives (e.g., being able to connect, yet get some time apart; gathering spaces; storage; safety, spaces for guests, spaces for work-at-home), what young families and elderly really need for good lives. I remember once reading that one problem with really big houses is that no one needs to spend time together, especially with technology. Our house is an old house (close to 100 years old) that has a 1990's addition to add a garage for 2 cars and a family room. The main living spaces on two floors are probably around 1800 square feet, with a basement and attic that are usable. Anyway, what I like is that when I'm sitting in the recliner in the living room with my laptop doing my work (it's a good job), I can hear the kids upstairs -- I like to hear the sound of the girls practicing their dancing in their rooms (it's cute), I can hear them cough (but I can't hear them talking), and I can sometimes hear them laughing -- all sounds I like to hear. The kids don't have computers or TVs in their rooms because the family computer is in the family room and the family TV is in the family room.

2. I really like having porches/decks for outdoor living. Things that extend the space outdoors - in cooler climates, a porch that has windows that can be used much/all of the year as well.

3. I do wish we had a nice separate room for a guest room because we like guests, and I do like a house to have enough space for when the kids come back with their own families when they are adults. We want them to be able to be comfortable here during their stays.

4. Home work spaces are nice (though we just have our shared desk in the basement - I work in the recliner, the kids work at the dining room table)

5. Energy efficient and environmentally friendly, of course.

6. Room enough to entertain with a big table (which probably means shared dining room/living room space so the table can be made bigger or smaller as needed and an efficient kitchen for cooking/storing).

7. Clever storage options to make the most of the space: I'm already starting to get rid of lots of stuff for when the kids grow up and in case we move to a smaller house. If we don't move to a smaller house, then at least we won't be taking care of a lot of stuff we don't need.

8. Very quiet appliances (dishwasher/fridge/airconditioners, heaters/etc.) since you can hear these more clearly in a small space.

Our cottages (as many of you know) are at the Cottages at Camp Creek. I think the architects/builders did a great job creating 3 bedroom (one which holds a king bed comfortably)/2 full bath cottages in 1100 or less square feet. They are easy to navigate, great for one-floor living, look good, are easy care, hurricane sturdy (though not like Alys Beach of course), big porches, and leave the owners a lot of room for personalizing them. The only thing I would do to them over time is add more creative storage (but not too much because the idea is to live simply), add some of that hurricane protection film to the windows if the association lets us do it -- the windows are protected up to 130-140 mph winds I believe already so I'm not sure it's needed (I'll have to confirm this with the builder). Owners can make the inside as fancy or simple as they'd like. For the long-term, we did buy two 1100 square foot side by side cottages so that the kids can use one when they visit with their families someday and be comfortable. And we like to go there with our extended family and friends sometimes so it's nice to spread out. But otherwise one 1100 cottage is more than enough to live in (and we'd continue to rent the other out except for when the kids are using it/them). It's especially big enough because it's warm most of the year so we really think of the porch and the outdoors (pool/beach) as where we live.

Frankly, if people are looking for smaller places along 30A, there are plenty from what I saw and still see, even new construction, if you really want to have a smaller place at the beach.

Paula,
Beautifully stated, thoughtful, intelligent and evocative like so many of your posts!

[Chickpea]

I forgot to add that in the spirit of being candid - we live in just over 2100 s.f (family of 4) - it is a 3 bedroom plus office, 3-1/2 bath. Works just fine for us but I constantly meet people who tell me that their 4500 s.f house is too little for them - and I am left wondering: What needs do they have that I do not????

And finally, I know an architect (very well known in the field) who does absolutely excellent work and he was recently asked by someone in the US to design a (drum roll please..................) a 120,000 s.f house (no typos - that is a one hundred and twenty thousand s.f. house!!!!! I asked him, "where the hell do you begin with this and what is his program???" - I was told 3 programs:

1) For him and his wife
2) For their kids and guests (interesting that the kids are lumped with guests and not parents - kids' ages vary from 6-15
3) For his business.....

[Miss Kitty]

Thank you all for this excellent feedback (plus I needed a break from the political forum!). Many of you make some excellent points and it is great to see how many of you are willing to downsize and reap the benefits of living smaller. I actually loved reading your personal stories and knowing some of you it has been particularly interesting and enlightening.

I have one question though about something that I hear all the time and my simple brain cannot make it make sense - why do people who pay a lot for a large house always make the argument that they now have to build a large house to make their investment worth it?? What is wrong or fiscally irreponsible about putting a small or medium house on a large lot? It does not devalue one's property and surely the economics of building small and less make it a sounder financial decision.

Oh chickypea, I have been asking this question forever around here. Mr. K has tried and tried to explain it to me. :bang: He says if there is an empty lot or a teardown on an $800,000 lot purchased by a builder, he will want to make $$$ by building as many sq. ft. as possible, since he makes no money on the land. If I owned said lot, I could possibly find a builder to build that smaller home.

[SHELLY]

I have one question though about something that I hear all the time and my simple brain cannot make it make sense - why do people who pay a lot for a large house always make the argument that they now have to build a large house to make their investment worth it?? What is wrong or fiscally irreponsible about putting a small or medium house on a large lot? It does not devalue one's property and surely the economics of building small and less make it a sounder financial decision.

During the RE frenzy folks were building/buying high-priced "investment" property so they can service the Baby Boomers (or so says the sales pitch)....but consider this:


Study: Many Boomers Lack Retirement Fund
Monday July 30, 6:45 pm ET
By Eileen Alt Powell, AP Business Writer

Study Says Nearly One-Third of Older Baby Boomers Haven't Saved Enough for Retirement

NEW YORK (AP) -- Nearly one-third of baby boomers ages 51 to 61 are at risk of not having enough in savings to finance a comfortable retirement, according to a study being released Tuesday by the Center for Retirement Research at Boston College.

With its analysis, the center has joined the national debate over how much savings is enough -- and has done so on the side that says there's a shortfall.

"We just don't believe people are saving too much," Alicia H. Munnell, a professor of management sciences at Boston College and director of the retirement research center, told The Associated Press.

A recently published academic study looked at the retirement preparedness of Americans who were in their 50s in 1992 and concluded that at least 80 percent had more than enough assets for retirement. Other scientists have argued that Americans may be saving too much.

The new Boston College study evaluated the same 51-61 age group, but looked at their finances in 2004, and found 32 percent to be "at risk" for not being able to maintain their preretirement standing of living in retirement.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070730/boomers_savings.html?.v=2

[Mermaid]

Thank you all for this excellent feedback (plus I needed a break from the political forum!). Many of you make some excellent points and it is great to see how many of you are willing to downsize and reap the benefits of living smaller. I actually loved reading your personal stories and knowing some of you it has been particularly interesting and enlightening.

I have one question though about something that I hear all the time and my simple brain cannot make it make sense - why do people who pay a lot for a large house always make the argument that they now have to build a large house to make their investment worth it?? What is wrong or fiscally irreponsible about putting a small or medium house on a large lot? It does not devalue one's property and surely the economics of building small and less make it a sounder financial decision.

I don't know if this is the answer to the question, Chickpea, but I think the overwhelming (though thankfully changing?) mentality in this country is that "bigger is better." Not "better is better."

It's a fine idea in and of itself--bigger is better--but somehow it's turned into a mockery of its original intent. In the housing market in particular, it's become an end, not a means. A brand new bigger house is what success looks like to its purchasers. If I have a bigger house, that means I have a bigger job, a bigger income, a bigger life than the person whose house is not so bigger as mine. It's simple. I live big, therefore I AM big.

I like the concept of bigger is better in its best form: I'd like to build a house that is full of bigger ideas. I'd like an architect who could think big on my behalf and build me a house that is made of the best, most useful materials and have the best use of space to suit the needs of my family and friends, thus giving an overall feeling of competence and quality. If all these things were in a house, it would feel grand, and that feeling would have nothing to do with how much square footage was involved. In fact, well-designed houses defy square footage.

I do think, however, that does not appeal to the market at large, at least not if current building trends up and down 30-A are any indication. I think it takes courage to buy something deliberately less McMansionish (especially if you could afford it, and especially if most of your peers were doing it). The movement towards making the choice for quality of construction versus quantity of construction is still something still in its infancy. Gaining a strong toehold, though. There's always the hope that common sense will once again triumph. :biggrin:

[Mango]

I have one question though about something that I hear all the time and my simple brain cannot make it make sense - why do people who pay a lot for a large house always make the argument that they now have to build a large house to make their investment worth it?? What is wrong or fiscally irreponsible about putting a small or medium house on a large lot? It does not devalue one's property and surely the economics of building small and less make it a sounder financial decision.

I think this would have to do with the size of the homes in the neighborhood. If you live in McMansionville and there's still a vacant lot around, anyone who purchases it will be inclined to keep up with the Joneses or be inclined to construct in tune with the feel for the neighborhood.

My neighborhood is an exception though. In the late 80's, early 90's, they built homes in the 4000 sq ft range, but then the developer went belly up. Most of us didn't need homes that size, and built homes in the 2200-3000 sq ft range. We all sit on large lots of about 2-3 acres. Some people as their families expanded or brought in-laws to live with them expanded their homes, but most left them alone.

My next door neighbor though who built last decided to build a 5000 sq ft home with an outbuilding studio :shock: and recently went to have to it appraised.
It really didn't appraise that much more than mine being that I have a larger level lot (hers has a large incline) She really thought that she would get a much higher value than what I had thought she she came to me for a refinance. She's always complaining about her utility bills and maintenance of the house and its just her and her 2 daughters.

People forget that it is location, location and adjustments will be made on an appraisal for square footage obviously upon appraisal, but the location and topography of the land is what is most important.

I do want to note that in an appraisal and for those considering downsizing, that even though you may have the same sq footage, updated baths, use of specific materials etc. will make a difference in value.
In my area (not sure about how they do it in sowal) if someone has a 2 bedroom, the appraiser will try to find 2 bedrooms vs, a 3 bedroom with the same sq. footage, so if I were to downsize, I would try for a 3 bedroom house, or build it so I can convert it back to 3 bedroom for resale purposes if necessary.

I think Paula's cottages are an excellent example of a 3 bedroom layout design for downsizing.

[scooterbug44]

The amount of space you NEED and would USE is very often not what you will end up with. Real estate agents and builders will steer you towards a larger home because they get more $$ that way. It is also more challenging/exacting work to design & build a more compact home so people cut corners and just make stuff bigger and generic.

Craftsmanship and charm will always sell a house better and faster than a list of "features" and unnecessary square footage.

[Smiling JOe]

The amount of space you NEED and would USE is very often not what you will end up with. Real estate agents and builders will steer you towards a larger home because they get more $$ that way. It is also more challenging/exacting work to design & build a more compact home so people cut corners and just make stuff bigger and generic.

Craftsmanship and charm will always sell a house better and faster than a list of "features" and unnecessary square footage.Wait a minute, missy. Don't go lumping us all together. :nono1: There are plenty of Realtors who don't operate like that.

[Rambunkscious]

No, the small is not the new big. Bigger is better in every way.
Bigger houses justify pricey lots, smaller houses dont; imagine paying a million bucks for a building lot and putting a thousand sf house on it and trying to sell it-------the appraiser would give you almost nothing for the house because its size would be obsolete........Who would pay as much for a 1000 sf house as those would pay for a 3 or 4 thousand sf house????? NOBODY.

The same architects who design 1000 sf houses also design 4000 sf houses.
Large houses are not immune to creative design. Are any of you driving around in a mo-ped??? How bout a car built just for gas mileage? No?
Why not? Because Bigger is Better!!!

Wake up America!

[scooterbug44]

Who would pay as much for a 1000 sf house as those would pay for a 3 or 4 thousand sf house????? NOBODY.

The same architects who design 1000 sf houses also design 4000 sf houses.
Large houses are not immune to creative design.


More isn't always better, sometimes it's just more!

Obviously, if everything was equal (location, lot size etc), people wouldn't pay as much for 1000 as they do for 4000. One would certainly hope the latter has more bedrooms, bathrooms, etc.

I'm not saying large houses can't be creative, but that smaller houses w/ space limitations require more creativity, just as a smaller suitcase makes you have to plan better when packing. Innovation usually occurs when you have limited resources and options!

[Paula]

Paula,
Beautifully stated, thoughtful, intelligent and evocative like so many of your posts!

Awwwweee, Chickpea :blush: :wub: Thanks. It was a looong post so somewhere in there were a few good ideas! Also consider that people who want small homes fall into different categories -- simple/efficient/low cost to bells&whistles/probably efficient/high cost/upscale.

One comparison of similar square foot cottages would be the ones behind Angelina's and the Cottages at Camp Creek. I think they're both about the same square footage, though the ones behind Angelina's are two stories and the ones at Cottages at Camp Creek that are similar square footage are all on one floor. I'd be curious to see the inside of the ones behind Angelina's to see how they used the space. Magnolia cottages are probably the next step up in size.

[Smiling JOe]

I think it also makes a difference in the type of house it will be. Chickpea mentioned a primary residence, which should be designed differently than a second home. Outdoor storage, as well as creative closet space is needed, to name a couple of differences.

[peapod1980]

I also love "The Not So Big House" book and concept. Jdarg - I have the "Creating the Not So Big House" book if you ever want to borrow it.

Thanks- I might! I need to read the "Not so Much Stuff" book first.:bang:
Hey, jdarg, you're in luck! The "NSBH" lady has just come out with a book about simplifying your whole life! :clap:
http://www.amazon.com/Not-So-Big-Life-Matters/dp/1400065313/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-0334390-0900077?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1186019055&sr=8-1

[nmosley]

"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." -- Edward Abbey 1927-1989

Truer words have never been penned!
Though I hate to say it :blush:

I am loving this post because I have always felt this way about the small vs large battle of the builders. We live in Texas. Here, the last 10 years have seen the worst monstrosities posing as "luxury and affluence". I love smaller scale homes with architectural interest and classic lines that are timeless. The houses seem to get bigger and bigger and as Shelly puts it (all have granite) but they lack character and originality.

The real problem is that builders, developers, etc. have refused to build smaller houses or allow the building of smaller houses on the lots in the nicer communities. So if you want to live somewhere that is appealing (better schools or safe environments, for example) you are forced to have a house that is much larger than you really need or want. It is insane!!

I am deeply affirmed by the thoughts on this post, since it makes me feel like I am not alone in my musings. Blessings to all today and thanks to Smiling Joe for the thought on patriotism... it never hurts to think outside of the box!

[Miss Kitty]

:wave: nmosley! You sound like you might live in my hood! I am getting ready to call the authoritites on a builder getting ready to chop down 2-50 yr. old magnolias and a pecan tree in the backyard of a "teardown" two houses down from me. My friend lives behind this home and will soon have a starter castle peering down in her yard. This teardown leaves me as one of the last original homes on my block. :(

[scooterbug44]

Clear cutting lots is one of my pet peeves! The native oak trees are so cool!

[Chickpea]

"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." -- Edward Abbey 1927-1989

Truer words have never been penned!
Though I hate to say it :blush:

I am loving this post because I have always felt this way about the small vs large battle of the builders. We live in Texas. Here, the last 10 years have seen the worst monstrosities posing as "luxury and affluence". I love smaller scale homes with architectural interest and classic lines that are timeless. The houses seem to get bigger and bigger and as Shelly puts it (all have granite) but they lack character and originality.

The real problem is that builders, developers, etc. have refused to build smaller houses or allow the building of smaller houses on the lots in the nicer communities. So if you want to live somewhere that is appealing (better schools or safe environments, for example) you are forced to have a house that is much larger than you really need or want. It is insane!!

I am deeply affirmed by the thoughts on this post, since it makes me feel like I am not alone in my musings. Blessings to all today and thanks to Smiling Joe for the thought on patriotism... it never hurts to think outside of the box!

Great post - thanks.

BTW: who ever decided that granite was truely the mark of a a high end house??? There are many more materials far more interesting and less expensive.

I recently spoke to a developer who has real estate projects all over the world (marketing mostly although not exclusively word of mouth - attracts the super wealthy with private jets) - but all this to say that in his developments, people can buy lots as small as 1/8 acre and as large as 5 acres BUT all houses, even on largest lots are capped at a maximum of 5,000 sf. I asked him if this was ever a problem and he basically said NO - people adjust (especially for vacation homes) and that he and many others are leaning more and more in the direction of small.....music to my ears...

[Smiling JOe]

I thought you were going to say that the homes were capped at a size of something like 2000-2500sf. :floor:

Check out some of Ross Chapin's designs (http://www.rosschapin.com/Plans/plans.html). Some are like living on a boat, but look well thought out. He is building communities with common areas with the tiny homes surrounding it. I love the style, I just have too much (needless) stuff.

http://www.rosschapin.com/Projects/PocketNeighborhoods/Conover/images/CC1-2.jpg

[Paula]

I love that style, too, SJ. Light, porches, sense of community, simple but high quality, charming, colorful. If a small house has a basement, that is a plus in my view because basements add a lot of flexibility without adding height/width to the house. In Florida, though, seems like homes aren't as likely to have basements.

[beachmouse]

High water table, and you don't need to set the foundation deep because of freeze concerns like you do Up North. The only homes with basements here normally involve walk-outs on hilly lots.

Instead, everyone keeps their junk in the garage. It's amazing how many people are unable to put their cars in the garage because of that.

[jdarg]

High water table, and you don't need to set the foundation deep because of freeze concerns like you do Up North. The only homes with basements here normally involve walk-outs on hilly lots.

Instead, everyone keeps their junk in the garage. It's amazing how many people are unable to put their cars in the garage because of that.


:wave: :wave: :wave:

[peapod1980]

BTW: who ever decided that granite was truely the mark of a a high end house??? There are many more materials far more interesting and less expensive.
Chickpea, I've asked this question a million times! It's so strange. I wonder, seriously, how many times I've heard uttered on a re-hab/house flipping show: "Now, in the kitchen we're going to re-do the countertops with granite because this is a very high end area." :roll: Give me concrete or stainless tops over granite any day.

[John R]

check out these books for living small. http://www.saveourtreehouse.com/SaveOurTreehouse/books/treehouse_books.htm

[Chickpea]

:roll: Give me concrete or stainless tops over granite any day.

Me too! Or soapstone, limestone, the list can go on and on - glad to hear this though - somehow re-invigorates me!

[SON]

I have been a Dwell MAG reader for a long time and two or three issues back they showed several couples living in 1000 Sq Ft. homes with creative storage solutions for stuff.

www.dwellmag.com

Cheers,
Son

[peapod1980]

Me too! Or soapstone, limestone, the list can go on and on - glad to hear this though - somehow re-invigorates me!
Oh, gosh, I absolutely love soapstone--love it! It has a really high price point, too, though, doesn't it?

[John R]

Oh, gosh, I absolutely love soapstone--love it! It has a really high price point, too, though, doesn't it?

soft though. not for the faint of heart, hard on countertops, or those with children...

[Rambunkscious]

John R, where did you get that "worst" decal? I love it and want one or maybe a hundred cause all my friends would love one too.

Also, the lady logo (on the left side of the page of your post) would be needed to be added to my order also (the real lady not the logo).

Mighty classy stuff here.

[Miss Kitty]

Oh, gosh, I absolutely love soapstone--love it! It has a really high price point, too, though, doesn't it?

Did this in the big house...no not jail. Wanted concrete, but it hadn't caught on here at the time and I couldn't find a fabricater. Soapstone, although beautiful, is VERY high maintenance at the beginning. I had to slop mineral oil on it and rub rub rub it in at least once a week for months. We moved before the break in period was over and I decided to never have it again.

[SHELLY]

Chickpea, I've asked this question a million times! It's so strange. I wonder, seriously, how many times I've heard uttered on a re-hab/house flipping show: "Now, in the kitchen we're going to re-do the countertops with granite because this is a very high end area." :roll: Give me concrete or stainless tops over granite any day.

Granite CTs and SS appliances will be the trademark of the Bubble Era just like Harvest Gold/Advocado and paneling were the trademark of the 70s.


.

[Miss Kitty]

Granite CTs and SS appliances will be to the Bubble Era what Harvest Gold/Advocado and paneling were to the 70s.


.

Okay...what's the next great thing?

[SHELLY]

Okay...what's the next great thing?

Eating Ramen Noodles on a kitchen counter of a home whose mortgage is paid in full.



.

[Miss Kitty]

Eating Ramen Noodles on a kitchen counter of a home whose mortgage is paid in full.



.

:clap: ...working on it!!!

[beachmouse]

Ten more years, and we're free in that regard.

[Chickpea]

Did this in the big house...no not jail. Wanted concrete, but it hadn't caught on here at the time and I couldn't find a fabricater. Soapstone, although beautiful, is VERY high maintenance at the beginning. I had to slop mineral oil on it and rub rub rub it in at least once a week for months. We moved before the break in period was over and I decided to never have it again.

It is indeed high maintenance but it is beautiful!!! It is wierd that you had to apply mineral oil that frequently - that seems excessive but ?????

You know me - beauty trumps all :wub:

[peapod1980]

John R, where did you get that "worst" decal? I love it and want one or maybe a hundred cause all my friends would love one too.

Also, the lady logo (on the left side of the page of your post) would be needed to be added to my order also (the real lady not the logo).

Mighty classy stuff here.
Ram, you didn't ask me, but I'm more than happy to do anything I can to help you in this regard:
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=w+sticker+worst&category0=

[Miss Kitty]

It is indeed high maintenance but it is beautiful!!! It is wierd that you had to apply mineral oil that frequently - that seems excessive but ?????

You know me - beauty trumps all :wub:

:wave: ...which is why in my next home, I will have either Carrera or some other marble in my kitchen! :clap:

[Chickpea]

:wave: ...which is why in my next home, I will have either Carrera or some other marble in my kitchen! :clap:

Fair enough - just make sure it is honed (not polished!) in kitchen unless you are dying for another high maintenance material.

And honed marble is bellissimo.

[Beachbummett]

:wave: ...which is why in my next home, I will have either Carrera or some other marble in my kitchen! :clap:

Fair enough - just make sure it is honed (not polished!) in kitchen unless you are dying for another high maintenance material.

And honed marble is bellissimo.

you rang?!:D :wave:

[Miss Kitty]

you rang?!:D :wave:

:roll: ...:wave:

[Beachbummett]

:roll: ...:wave:

:biggrin: :wave: i looooooooooove my new marble kitchen counter tops! Afyon Sugar....second whitest marble known to man. Gorgeous. Come see it. I got mine polished just because I think it's prettier....but.....my island is jacobean color dark brown wood, I will just tell everyone to work on it, not the marble.

[Miss Kitty]

:biggrin: :wave: i looooooooooove my new marble kitchen counter tops! Afyon Sugar....second whitest marble known to man. Gorgeous. Come see it. I got mine polished just because I think it's prettier....but.....my island is jacobean color dark brown wood, I will just tell everyone to work on it, not the marble.

I will come dance on them for you since you don't like cooking! :biggrin: :wave:

[Beachbummett]

I will come dance on them for you since you don't like cooking! :biggrin: :wave:

I really love you Miss K....but....ahhhhh....NO! I have four large decks and a big tower you can dance on. Ok?

[NoHall]

I thought you were going to say that the homes were capped at a size of something like 2000-2500sf. :floor:

Check out some of Ross Chapin's designs (http://www.rosschapin.com/Plans/plans.html). Some are like living on a boat, but look well thought out. He is building communities with common areas with the tiny homes surrounding it. I love the style, I just have too much (needless) stuff.

http://www.rosschapin.com/Projects/PocketNeighborhoods/Conover/images/CC1-2.jpg

Those look wonderful!

That's the other thing I love about my teeny house--All the needless stuff goes away because there is nowhere to store it.

:biggrin: :wave: i looooooooooove my new marble kitchen counter tops! Afyon Sugar....second whitest marble known to man. Gorgeous. Come see it. I got mine polished just because I think it's prettier....but.....my island is jacobean color dark brown wood, I will just tell everyone to work on it, not the marble.

50-year-old metal edged formica. I would say that it's Retro, but it's really just the original countertops. Who's jealous?

[Beachbummett]

Those look wonderful!

That's the other thing I love about my teeny house--All the needless stuff goes away because there is nowhere to store it.



50-year-old metal edged formica. I would say that it's Retro, but it's really just the original countertops. Who's jealous?


Here you need one of these to go in it! I love these! They also come in pink!

[NoHall]

Here you need one of these to go in it! I love these! They also come in pink!

http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/confused/confused0053.gif (http://search.orange.co.uk/all?q=site%3Awww.arlingtonhotelgroup.co.uk+norfolk )

I love those with all my heart!!!

[Cork On the Ocean]

Here you need one of these to go in it! I love these! They also come in pink!

I'm shocked you didn't put those pink appliances in your new kitchen. Guess you got trumped, huh :lol: The new place is absolutely gorgeous! Sorry I missed you last weekend sweetie. Let me know when you're coming back in. :wub:

To the original question. Good one. Chickpea. I'm all about small and luxurious. My place in Tampa Bay is only 1700 sq ft but has 2 fireplaces, outdoor kitchen, pool, double jacuzzi in master and very open. I loved it for a residence because it was so easy to keep clean and why pay for space you don't need?

Even my place here is 4 BR so I have plenty of room for beach guests but it's only about 1800 sq ft. Doesn't have all the comfies that I like but does have plenty of room for me. Perfect for someone who hates to clean and has no kids.

Actually hope tp buy a really small place cash in the future and as Shelly says, eat ramen noodles :floor:. Then buy a motorhome or sailboat and get outta dodge for a little while.

Experiences not stuff for this gal!

I do have to say I like the granite countertops though. I don't even have a cutting board (Ali can attest to this) and I don't need to find one with the granite :floor: Perfect for the lazy cook!

Yep, I vote for small and compact for most things! :funn:

[scooterbug44]

A common mistake I find is that people jump on the bandwagon and put ALL the bells and whistles in rather than just the ones they would use. It is easy to fit all you need in a smaller space and live comfortably if you only include what YOU will use. Plan for how you live your daily life, rather than for infrequent or one time events.

For example:
-a smaller kitchen for someone who doesn't cook alot instead of a huge unused space with thousands wasted on commercial grade stainless appliances
-No formal dining room if people don't give dinner parties and have other spaces to eat in
-only enough garage space for the number of cars owned by residents, while guests park in the open or under a pretty planted arbor
-Guests rooms w/ smaller closets and luggage storage space instead of walk-ins

[peapod1980]

Chickpea, ran across this today:
http://www.bankrate.com/aolre/news/pf/20070816_small_houses_1.asp

[Chickpea]

Chickpea, ran across this today:
http://www.bankrate.com/aolre/news/pf/20070816_small_houses_1.asp

Thanks Peapod - liked reading this and agree with most of it. I think this trend is likely to continue and can be promising!