New York Times Article PCB Airport/Beaches

[goodwitch58]

Thought this might be interesting to everyone. Hope it links properly.


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/09/us/09airport.html?ex=1179374400&en=1713838221e1516b&ei=5059&partner=AOL

[kurt]

Thanks for posting the link.
“It’s pretty hard to imagine any demand for direct flights from Bay County to, say, London or Paris,” said Melanie Shepherdson, a staff lawyer for the Natural Resources Defense Council, which has sued to stop the airport project on environmental grounds. “It’s kind of a joke when you think about it.”
Not a joke to a few people in SoWal I know.

What's a joke is NYT, NPR, and the likes of CNN thinking there is still a debate on whether development is going to happen in the panhandle or not. :roll: The airport is at the center of a growing debate over whether to keep the Panhandle relatively quiet or to seek the kind of development that has made other parts of Florida vibrant, if teeming, hubs of sprawl.
. . . a little further down . . .
St. Joe owns most of the land surrounding the proposed airport site, and plans to build 5,800 homes and 4.3 million square feet of commercial space in the West Bay sector, a 78,000-acre area that includes the airport.


Seems like 2 different people wrote different parts of the article.

[flyguy]

What I don't understand is why people think a new airport will suddenly bring in new tourists.

I have no doubt a new airport will benefit the area economically based on the influx of capital and the redevelopement of the old airport. The influx of capital will be mostly taxpayer money to pay for new construction. But that is not the same as bringing more tourists and vacation home buyers.

The current airport is without question underutilized. And if someone wants to bring in a 747, you could land it at Fort Walton. The problem is, no airlines want to because the passenger traffic will not support it.

To me the key quote in the article is:

"Given that the current airport is operating at only half its capacity — with 12 outbound flights a day — the plaintiffs say it makes no sense to build a sprawling replacement"

I have to agree that St. Joe is going to reap the greatest benefit and the taxpayers will be paying for an airport that will be underutilized for many many years to come.

Just my humble opinion,
Flyguy

[TooFarTampa]

The current airport is without question underutilized. And if someone wants to bring in a 747, you could land it at Fort Walton. The problem is, no airlines want to because the passenger traffic will not support it.


I believe the traffic is light because the prices are so high to fly into PCB. Makes for a vicious circle. Most people I know choose FWB every time. It's a drive to SoWal, but not a terrible one. Either way you would need a car so what's an extra 30 minutes of driving to save $100 or more a person?

[Bob]

What I don't understand is why people think a new airport will suddenly bring in new tourists.

I have no doubt a new airport will benefit the area economically based on the influx of capital and the redevelopement of the old airport. The influx of capital will be mostly taxpayer money to pay for new construction. But that is not the same as bringing more tourists and vacation home buyers.

The current airport is without question underutilized. And if someone wants to bring in a 747, you could land it at Fort Walton. The problem is, no airlines want to because the passenger traffic will not support it.

To me the key quote in the article is:

"Given that the current airport is operating at only half its capacity — with 12 outbound flights a day — the plaintiffs say it makes no sense to build a sprawling replacement"

I have to agree that St. Joe is going to reap the greatest benefit and the taxpayers will be paying for an airport that will be underutilized for many many years to come.

Just my humble opinion,
FlyguyNothing sudden will happen. The wisdom of this airport is that it an integral part of the overall infrastructure needed for growth. Of course, if you want no growth, you'll be against the new airport. You can't sell international service to an air force base facility that has a total of 6 gates. Better to have 4 thousand acres donated for the project, than ante up for the same land when the current facility is too small. The current investment in the new airport will seem small 20 years from now.

[jdarg]

I believe the traffic is light because the prices are so high to fly into PCB. Makes for a vicious circle. Most people I know choose FWB every time. It's a drive to SoWal, but not a terrible one. Either way you would need a car so what's an extra 30 minutes of driving to save $100 or more a person?

I think it depends on where you are flying. We use both PCB and Valparaiso to fly to Louisville- the prices are always within $10-20 of each other, so we shop based on departure and arrival times.

[flyguy]

Nothing sudden will happen. The wisdom of this airport is that it an integral part of the overall infrastructure needed for growth. Of course, if you want no growth, you'll be against the new airport. You can't sell international service to an air force base facility that has a total of 6 gates. Better to have 4 thousand acres donated for the project, than ante up for the same land when the current facility is too small. The current investment in the new airport will seem small 20 years from now.


I do agree that eventually the area will grow into a new airport and agree in general with your post.

I just think the growth in tourists will eventually justify a larger airport. The airport will not be the source of growth in tourists. And the growth in tourists is many years away to reach a point of needing a larger airport.

JMHO
Flyguy

[PC Snoop]

Yep regardless of suggestions to the contrary of the nation's newspaper of record the new airport will happen. It is important to St Joe, but it is important to President Bush and it is important to our friends at the Dept of Homeland Security :eek: .
Based on what I have gleaned from 30-A summer reading list book "Green Empire", St Joe press releases and relatively informed professionals (none are realtors) this is why I think it will happen.
4K acres of slash pine to be built to all interested parties exact specifications. DHS wants to be able to scan sniff, poke and no telling what else to every FexEx size package that leaves or enters the country. Tell all small package shippers that they will send all packages to the new DHS facility at our new airport and they will comply. This will be a working test facility to keep us safe from the bad guys over there. Build a building or campus. Thus all the shippers are here with a bunch of freight landings and fees everyday to be handled by living wage workers.
Anyone else see the name that is suggested for the new airport? "Emerald Coast International Airport". Not "PC/Bay Co. Int'l Airport". Why do they do that, Elmer? Because it is strategically sited to the whole area. It's area of draw is appox. 75 miles. That is FWB plus to Port St Joe. PSJ does not have an airport to speak of, so that is good. But you say that FWB has a perfectly good airport. Consider that that perfectly good airport is only there because the USAF likes to be nice and let the civilians us their runway. Post 9-11 the USAF must have reconsidered their desire to be nice with the new emphasis on "Operational Security and Threat Vulnerablity" criteria. Especially when you consider the primary mission of the base and its importance to national defense. FWB loses on that score. Another reason to build a brand new airport in the area. Any excuse will do to justify breaking the lease. BRAC considerations, national security, what ever and then sweeten the deal with $$$ to 4 or 6 lane Hwy 20. FWB is closed, now go to ECIA to catch your flight.
The airport is a done deal. St Joe has in excess of 1200 acres already under lease or sold. The plan is set. The players lined up. Just need the pres here for the ground breaking.

[beachmouse]

The problem with that argument is that if you're talking west of Sandestin, your back up airport is Pensacola because of better prices and flight availability than you'd find in PC. Nice airport, and they've got some non-stop options you'd otherwise have to go to Birmingham to see.

That, and if there was some great conspiracy to get rid of commercial service at VPS, they hardly would have spent $30 million in 03-04 for a shiny new commercial air terminal there. (Which looks oddly similar to the proposed Bay County airport. Is there a common architect recycling plans?) Plus, it's in the Air Force's own best interest to have readily available commercial air service close to base. Lots of the seats outbound and inbound from VPS are AF-related business travelers. Add in a pretty public recent community push to get Southwest flying out of VPS, and it just doesn't make sense.

[sand flea]

I do agree that eventually the area will grow into a new airport and agree in general with your post.

I just think the growth in tourists will eventually justify a larger airport. The airport will not be the source of growth in tourists. And the growth in tourists is many years away to reach a point of needing a larger airport.

JMHO
Flyguy


This has been done before. Case in point is The Columbia International Airport, in Columbia, South Carolina. Their origional airport was land locked by down town development and The university Of S.C. They built the new airport in the boondocks(sand hills) between Pelion, S.C. and West Columbia. When my family and I moved to W. Col'a. to work at this airport the country was in the grips of the '80's recesion, but an industrial
park developed around the airport and, UPS moved in to ship their products. In some over 5 years this all was surounded by housing.

I think that this could bring some econimic diversity to the area and, who knows ,we could all use a few more customers.

[Seabreeze]

In the early-mid '60s, Charlotte, Birmingham and Atlanta were essentially the same sized large towns/small cities with only regional feeder airports. All were in a position to step up and become the hub of the Southeast. Atlanta Mayor William B. Hartsfield had the foresight to see that building a larger, international airport would be the conduit for greater economic development. Alas, when the new Atlanta Airport was built (granted, too big a facility for Atlanta at the time, and a facility that pales in size to the current airport which is among the two busiest in the world), it wasn't long before more and more businesses relocated to Atlanta. This drove jobs growth and housing growth mightily over the next two decades and elevated the sophistication of a once sleepy little Southern town. Atlanta became "HotLanta" and the rest is history. Unfortunately, along with the boom came Atlanta's world-class gridlock. Ask anyone what single factor helped create Atlanta's major city status and they'll point to the airport. A larger airport in the Panhandle with the capability of international arrivals and departures will be a boom, in time. The challenge will be to appropriately manage the growth when it occurs. It will be a trade-off in terms of positives and negatives -- as everything always seems to be be.

[Jellyfish]

IMO the real key is to get Southwest into PCB with $79 fares to just about anywhere....THAT will drive tourism for sure.

[Donna]

You can bet the St. Joe Company would not be pushing a new international airport if it would not have a huge positive impact on their investments in the area. The advantage of improved access isn't just that it becomes easier to get here/there or that air fares will be lower. It is direct access to markets where there is a lot more investment money and where Panhandle property prices are still a remarkable value, comparatively. I have seen this dynamic in so many places...Orange County, CA; Phoenix, AZ; Denver, CO; Atlanta, GA; Oakland and Sacramento, CA; Las Vegas, NV; and now even in Seattle, WA. Several of the international carriers just announced direct service into SEATAC, largely via their recognition of the Greater Seattle Area as being the most important urban area in the country in the coming decade. A big part of that is Seattle being the recipient of much of the combined philanthropy of Warren Buffett and Bill/Melinda Gates.

Of course, this is a double-edged sword. Huge growth and soaring property values are great for some, not so great for others who value the area as it exists today. I mean, I was horrified the first time driving along Panama City Beach and seeing those skyway condos! And the North County (Walton) will change radically as a result of all this new growth and the huge demand for service jobs. The resulting impacts are well known from the experience of other similar areas. Hopefully, the County will tackle these entirely predictable problems (access, infrastructure, affordable housing, protection of natural areas and special character) as part of the entitlements for new growth, as opposed to trying to resolve them after the horse is out of the barn. Time will tell. :yikes:

[Smiling JOe]

FAA Recommends 2nd Atlanta Airport
Last Modified: 5/15/2007 12:28:06 PM
www.11alive.com/news/article_news.aspx?storyid=97074 (http://www.11alive.com/news/article_news.aspx?storyid=97074)

Hartsfield-Jackson may not be the only major airport in the Atlanta area if officials listen to a recommendation by the U.S. Secretary of Transportation. During a trip to the Atlanta airport Tuesday, Secretary Mary Peters said Atlanta is one of several cities that may need to consider a second airport by 2025.

The report released by the Federal Aviation Administration said in the next 10 to 20 years, Atlanta, Chicago, Las Vegas, and San Diego will need to expand existing airports, build new ones or find other solutions to meet the country's increasing demand for air travel.

The FAA released the report titled "Capacity Needs in the National Airspace System." It looks at changes in future airport capacity through 2025. Peters was on hand for the news conference at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International
Airport. She praised efforts by the city of Atlanta and the airport to address the coming growth, including the construction of a fifth runway and new air traffic control towers.

Both the runway and the towers opened at Hartsfield-Jackson a year ago on May 16, 2006.

(The Associated Press contributed to this report).

[BeachSiO2]

Well, at least it will be interesting to see what happens with the TDC/CVB over there...:yikes: No wonder they want to call the airport, Emerald Coast, not just Bay County :biggrin:

http://www.newsherald.com/headlines/article.display.php?a=1331

[beachmouse]

Be interesting to see if the name sticks. I can think of a half dozen airports off the top of my head where the common name for them is totally different than the airport's official name. (The significantly long flap over Washington National/Reagan for one)

[trying2makeabuc]

Talking about the new airport is like starving people in a boat talking about what they want their first meal to be once they are rescued. It ain't gonna help for a while.

But just for fun, I'll jump into the mix. The airport will have an big impact as has been stated (especially the ATL example.). Anidotally, I originally come from MN and it takes my friends 6 hours with a transfer in Memphis or Atlanta to get here. Not too convenient.

[Smiling JOe]

Talking about the new airport is like starving people in a boat talking about what they want their first meal to be once they are rescued. It ain't gonna help for a while.


Not quite. Your analogy is one which the rescue doesn't have an estimated date for commencement and completion. In fact, the rescue might not happen at all -- not so with the new airport.

[trying2makeabuc]

Not quite. Your analogy is one which the rescue doesn't have an estimated date for commencement and completion. In fact, the rescue might not happen at all -- not so with the new airport.

Realistically, the airport still has lawsuits and other hurdles to clear. Then good old government construction timetable. So, maybe, maybe, Jan 2010 there will be an airport. If you plan on selling ahead of the need on speculation (will there really be that much of that in this market by then?) then you might sell it around 2010. If you will sell to people who are coming because of the airport, it might be 1-3 years later. I would take my chances on the lifeboat!

[Camp Creek Kid]

But just for fun, I'll jump into the mix. The airport will have an big impact as has been stated (especially the ATL example.). Anidotally, I originally come from MN and it takes my friends 6 hours with a transfer in Memphis or Atlanta to get here. Not too convenient.

I think 6 hours is very convenient, but its all relative I suppose. Most of our visitors who drive here are at least 4 1/2 to 5 hours away (Birm., Atlanta) withouts stops and we get lots of visitors from Chattanooga, Nashville and Memphis which are even further away. In 6 hours we here in SoWal can maybe make to the outskirts of Orlando.

[kurt]

Realistically, the airport still has lawsuits and other hurdles to clear. Then good old government construction timetable. So, maybe, maybe, Jan 2010 there will be an airport. If you plan on selling ahead of the need on speculation (will there really be that much of that in this market by then?) then you might sell it around 2010. If you will sell to people who are coming because of the airport, it might be 1-3 years later. I would take my chances on the lifeboat!

I won't make any time predictions because it is a massive project, but I've noticed around here that when St. Joe is involved in getting something built related to infrastructure it happens as quickly as if they were doing it themselves.

Also, there may not be many quick bucks to be made here now but I do believe those who buy smartly over the next few years will do very well on their investments by the time the airport is complete if not before. And I don't base that belief just on the airport being built.

[Smiling JOe]

Realistically, the airport still has lawsuits and other hurdles to clear. Then good old government construction timetable. So, maybe, maybe, Jan 2010 there will be an airport.

You seem to know more about this airport than I do. What lawsuits have yet to be cleared? You mention other hurdles need to also be cleared. Perhaps you could share those, too. :idontno: I know of one final permit to be issued by the DEP, but that is the only one, and the DEP has given pre-approval of that permit, from what I've read.

[Babyblue]

The airport is coming. Trying to fly from Destin to PDK is a pain and expensive.