Watercolor

[newbie]

I've been down to this area numerous times down because of the beauty of the area. I like it much better than Hilton Head, Amelia, Kiawah, etc. due to the white sand, lack of highrises, clear water, dunes, etc.

I have looked and looked at houses along various parts of 30A over the last 2 years or so. I really like Watercolor. However, I have noticed that every time I come down, it appears that there has been yet another round of price cuts on the houses. I also get data from a realtor. The data seems to show that activity has picked up in Watercolor, but prices are continuing to fall. I have some info from a couple of years ago that showed many prices on homes in the $700 plus range per square foot. Over the last six months or so, it seems the many of the sales in Watercolor have been under $500 per square foot. Am I missing something? I wouldn't want to pull the trigger on a purchase while prices are still falling.


:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Smiling JOe]

Data is only as good as the analyst who is reading it. Something that you cannot do with a project as large as WaterColor is look at only the avg sq ft price for sales when making your assumptions that prices are decreasing. You need to keep in mind the location of the houses, too. It might be that the cheaper more recent sales are in ph 3 or ph 4 which doesn't have easy access to the beach. Remember that some of WaterColor is located east of hwy 395, a good mile or more from the WaterColor Beach Club, BaitHouse, Beach, etc. I'm not suggesting that the price per sq ft hasn't or isn't decreasing, but make sure that you are comparing apples to apples, when reading the data. It might be best to have your Realtor give you a WaterColor map and you can track the avg sq ft prices, pinpointing the homes' locations. It will vary greatly.

[SablePoint]

I agree with most of what you're saying Smiling Joe. But I'm building in Phase 3 of Watercolor and your statement about Phase 3 not having easy access to the beach seems to be a misconception that a lot of people have.

Our house in Phase 3 is closer to the WaterColor Town Center and Beach Club than just about any home in Phase 2 (actually, almost every property in Phase 3 is closer to the Beach Club than almost every property in Phase 2). If you look at a map of WaterColor and draw concentric circles radiating out from the Beach Club, you’ll see what I’m talking about.

Plus, to get to the Beach Club, Town Center, Bait House, Boat House, etc... from Phase 3, you don't have to ride your bike down busy Western Lake Parkway (the main thoroughfare through town)... you get to take an awesome scenic tour across the Western Lake pedestrian bridge.

Most parents would probably prefer that their kids not ride down Western Lake Parkway… and from Phase 3, you don’t have to do that.

I think Phase 3 is definitely the undiscovered gem in WaterColor (one reason being is that it is still being developed, unlike Phase 2 and Phase 1 which are nearly built out and naturally have the most inventory of homes for sale).

Phase 3 is a "Destination." People only go to Phase 3 if they have a house back there. It is the "no outlet" section of WaterColor... which is bordered on the south by Western Lake, and on the west and north by Grayton Beach State Park (and therefore permanently protected from encroaching development).

Phase 1 & 2 are "through fares" where traffic drives through on their way to Town Center, 30-a, and the Beach Club… or to 395 and Publix. Whereas Phase 3 is secluded and removed from all of the traffic.

Although not formally designated as such, Phase 3 seems to me to be almost the "Estate Section" of WaterColor. It seems that the lots are larger, the trees are taller (reaching above the rooflines and providing a more wooded setting)... and everything just seems more private.

I would choose Phase 3 over Phase 2 (and most of Phase 1) every time. And I believe that as time goes on and the community gets more built out… many more people will come to realize this.

With all of that said… there is absolutely nothing wrong with Phase 1 & 2. WaterColor is the most breathtaking resort development I’ve ever experienced… anywhere. To me, it is the Crown Jewel of the Emerald Coast.

[Smiling JOe]

SablePoint, you make some great points about ph3, and as long as the people are on foot or bike, you are correct, and most people do go to the beach in WC on bike, it seems. Of course I was refering to the driving distance. Ph 4 seems well removed from the heart of WaterColor, in terms of proximity.

[SeaGrooving]

SablePoint,

Good points, nice articulation, and exactly why we bought our lot in Phase III instead of any other Phase.... no traffic there, fewer rentals (we hope) and surrounded by nature trails :-)

[SablePoint]

Smiling Joe, I should have stated that I agree with 100% of everything you said except...
It might be that the cheaper more recent sales are in ph 3 or ph 4 which doesn't have easy access to the beach.
Phase 3 is actually pricier than Phase 2.... so I don't think that you're seeing "cheaper more recent sales" in phase 3.


But on everything else you said:
Data is only as good as the analyst who is reading it. Something that you cannot do with a project as large as WaterColor is look at only the avg sq ft price for sales when making your assumptions that prices are decreasing. You need to keep in mind the location of the houses, too... ...Remember that some of WaterColor is located east of hwy 395, a good mile or more from the WaterColor Beach Club, BaitHouse, Beach, etc. I'm not suggesting that the price per sq ft hasn't or isn't decreasing, but make sure that you are comparing apples to apples, when reading the data. It might be best to have your Realtor give you a WaterColor map and you can track the avg sq ft prices, pinpointing the homes' locations. It will vary greatly.

I wholeheartedly agree.

[jimmyp5]

SJ and SablePoint have made some very perceptive & accurate statements about the WaterColor phases. And Newbie, a number of lookers are going through the exact same issues you're asking about ... I'm a full-time Realtor in WaterColor, it's all I do.

In my opinion, too many buyers and sellers and Realtors get too hung up on price-per-foot comparisons too much of the time. Sure, it's a useful index for spotting trends, comparisons between communities & phases, etc., but please remember it's only one characteristic.

Even right within WaterColor, I'd encourage you to also look closely at architecture, floorplan, quality of construction, location, finishes/fixtures/appliances, number & size of porches, covered parking, indoor & outdoor storage, etc.

As for the trend of per-foot prices falling over the last two years, I don't know how familiar you are with the Panhandle or 30-A markets in general, but WaterColor is clearly not alone in softer pricing the last couple years. There are several exhaustive (even one or two exhausting ones) threads on SoWal regarding this, that you ought to peruse.

My quickest answer to WaterColor's trend that you ask about is that an overdue price correction was triggered by the record '05 storm season, yet homes kept getting built here all through '06 and still. So our inventory has swollen tremendously, even as buying activity was very light.

Some of the high per-foot prices seen 2 years ago came from the general frenzy in the 30-A (and national) real estate market, and some came from the fact that there were only 30-40 homes, total, on the market here then.

Some of the lower per-foot prices you've seen the last couple months came from a text-book buyers market of up to 150 homes, from larger homes (on average) than 2 years ago (so typically a little less per foot), but it's mostly from sales being made by sellers who needed to get out at the time ... good ol' supply & demand helped these buyers make some very good buys.

And that's exactly where we are still today. Many of the other pundits on this board can help you try to decide whether we're at the bottom yet or not.

Please PM me if you'd like to discuss this further.

[SablePoint]

I was refering to the driving distance. Ph 4 seems well removed from the heart of WaterColor, in terms of proximity.

Absolutely agree. Phase 4 is not in the same ballgame. I guess that's why I took exception to the comment which seemed to lump Phase 3 in with Phase 4. Absolutely no comparison between the two.

Phase 3 is, in my opinion, closer to the heart of WaterColor than even Phase 2.

According to St. Joe... Cerulean Park is "the heart of the community and defines a long water axis that connects Gulf to lake." At the lake, the axis continues over the Western Lake pedestrian bridge. And what's on the other end of the bridge? Cerulean Park North, of course! It's an exquisite extension, and "bridging" of the two parks... and the two phases... across the lake. Cerulean Park North then continues along another water axis (with stream and fountains) till you ultimately reach the Phase 3 Pool.

Cerulean Park and Cerulean Park North are the anchor and the centerpiece of the development. You can almost draw a stright line from the Beach Club, through the Town Center, through Cerulean Park to the Bait House, Boat House, then over Western Lake to Cerulean Park North and ending at the Phase 3 Pool.

I have to admit that I didn't know that WaterColor had all of those plans when I bought into Phase 3 (heck, the bridge wasn't even built at the time). But now that I've seen how they had this vision all along, and how it all fits together... and how stunning it is... I'm just awestruck.

Yes. Phase 4 is far removed from the heart of WaterColor. I'm sure it will be nice. But Phase 4 will never be in the same league as Phase 3.

[Buckhead Rick]

Owning a lot in Phase 4 I agree with all the previous folks, phase 4 is a part of Watercolor in name only, we are really more like Natureswalk and other nice developments north of 30A. In the future (who knows how long that is) Phase 4 we offer access to a nice shopping area, hopefully with more than a Publix and liquor store - though that's a good starting point, Beach access -though a car ride away, and many pools but will have to be priced considerbly below the rest of WC and closer to Natureswalk.
The great thing about 30A is there is a price point for many different people.

[Babyblue]

I've been down to this area numerous times down because of the beauty of the area. I like it much better than Hilton Head, Amelia, Kiawah, etc. due to the white sand, lack of highrises, clear water, dunes, etc.

I have looked and looked at houses along various parts of 30A over the last 2 years or so. I really like Watercolor. However, I have noticed that every time I come down, it appears that there has been yet another round of price cuts on the houses. I also get data from a realtor. The data seems to show that activity has picked up in Watercolor, but prices are continuing to fall. I have some info from a couple of years ago that showed many prices on homes in the $700 plus range per square foot. Over the last six months or so, it seems the many of the sales in Watercolor have been under $500 per square foot. Am I missing something? I wouldn't want to pull the trigger on a purchase while prices are still falling.


:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Pull the trigger. Just make an offer you can live with.

[Smiling JOe]

SablePoint, my apologies for lumping ph 3 and 4 together. Your analysis seems spot-on. My real point was to just make certain you are comparing apples to apples when looking at sq ft price, whether it be location, size of house, size of lot, proximity to beach, services, shopping, dining, etc, materials being used, fit and finish.

As jimmyp5 pointed out fit and finish can add greatly to the cost. My brother, a builder, installed a door, which costs $8000, last week. He has also installed a door in another house, which costs less than $500. When you start adding up the upgrades for each little fixture, door, window, flooring, fireplace, outdoor porches with second kitchens, etc, the price per sq ft can jump radically. The opposite holds true if one sticks to the less expensive fit and finishes.

[SablePoint]

Absolutely agree again.

When we were having builders bid to build our house, several of them were suggesting NOT using impact glass and doors because it was so expensive. And when you have LOTS of big windows and doors (12' ceilings require big windows)... it becomes incredibly expensive.

We have 3 covered porches... each requiring an exterior door. And we have a carriage house which adds another exterior door. And a garage, which adds yet another.

All in all, we have SIX exterior entrances to our house. And THREE of these have double french doors!

Finally, even though we don't really intend to rent out our house, we had to consider whether to add Ving locks in case it was ever to go in the rental program. I'm guessing that you can't just cut into a hurricane imact door to change locks... because you have to decide this ahead of time so the door manufacturer can build the door to accomodate the Ving lock. This upgrade cost $2,000 per door. That's NOT the cost of the door AND the upgrade. That's just the ADDITIONAL cost, on top of the already expensive impact door cost. And with a carriage house, that's another $2,000 upgrade.

Compare all of the above to another house that may have only 2 exterior doors (and perhaps not even impact glass on top of that).

Yes, there can be a significant difference in cost per sq. ft. from one house to another. The above example only discusses doors... but there are a hundred other cost issues that can be similarly analyzed.

Also agree with everyone else's posts... SeaGrooving, jimmyp5, Buckhead Rick, Babyblue... Thanks.

[SablePoint]

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Check out my Virtual Walking Tour of WaterColor (http://129bluejack.googlepages.com/virtualwalkingtour)



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For the most part, the compass icon represents where I was standing when I took the photo. Click on each compass icon to see the photo.

Zoom in on the satellite map for more detail. Click on any photo for a larger version (then you can even click on "Original Size" for an even larger size image).

You can start at the Beach Club and then walk northwest through Town Center, Cerulean Park, then over Western Lake to Phase 3, Cerulean Park North... to the Phase 3 Pool... then a couple blocks west to my house under construction. From my house, walk south through the woods and then over the awesome boardwalk bridge at Cadmium Park and back into Phase 1.

I also posted a few pics of Camp WaterColor in Phase 2.


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[full time]

So Jimmyp - in this buyer's market, how much would you pay per square foot for a nice Watercolor house?

[Smiling JOe]

So Jimmyp - in this buyer's market, how much would you pay per square foot for a nice Watercolor house?I hope my reply doesn't come off as harsh, but this avg price comparison is what we've been talking about in the above posts. If you will read the above posts, you will see that even in a "nice WaterColor house," there is great difference between price per sf. ie- location, fit, finish, materials, lot size, total house size, carriage house, etc. Perhaps if you could narrow your question to be very specific on the type house for which you are looking to buy in WC, it might be possible for jimmy to give you a reasonable answer.

[SablePoint]

So Jimmyp - in this buyer's market, how much would you pay per square foot for a nice Watercolor house?

Sounds like your question is a bit "tongue-in-cheek"... and even though you didn't ask me... I'll bite anyway.

Your question is too broad. It's like asking, "How much would you pay for a Mercedes?"

(I think that's the concensus of the people posting in this thread anyway)

You must first identify:
What you want? (in terms of amenities, finishes, etc.) and...
Where you want it? (within the large and diverse WaterColor community).

Anyone wanting to assign importance to the price/sq. ft. question is either not really interested in owning in WaterColor... or, they haven't actually begun looking.

If you really want to own in WaterColor, you'll find what you want... and you'll buy it. The odds are that you won't buy the cheapest price/sq. ft. house you can find (unless that's the only thing that matters to you).

[John R]

the real question is: how much are you willing to pay for the finish quality you want? and that of course begs the statement: If you have to ask...

[SablePoint]

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Check out my Virtual Walking Tour of WaterColor (http://129bluejack.googlepages.com/virtualwalkingtour)



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No comments on my Virtual Walking Tour of WaterColor (http://129bluejack.googlepages.com/virtualwalkingtour)? :confused:

I was so excited once I finished it. I thought it was so cool and couldn't wait to post it for everyone to see... and was hoping to hear some "oohs" and "ahhs"!

Did anyone look at it? Maybe it wasn't easy to zoom in and view photos? Did anyone view the larger photos by clicking on the small ones? Are there too many photos?

Any comments, positive or negative, are appreciated...

Thanks.

[jimmyp5]

SJ and sable answered full-time's question nearly like I would ... it depends on what you're looking for, and why ... full-time, part-time, purely investment, for income or appreciation?

this is a good discussion, and has gotten a few of us talking, but i'll note also that newbie's never weighed in again after starting this thread ....

[egrp]

No comments on my Virtual Walking Tour of WaterColor (http://129bluejack.googlepages.com/virtualwalkingtour)? :confused:

I was so excited once I finished it. I thought it was so cool and couldn't wait to post it for everyone to see... and was hoping to hear some "oohs" and "ahhs"!

Did anyone look at it? Maybe it wasn't easy to zoom in and view photos? Did anyone view the larger photos by clicking on the small ones? Are there too many photos?

Any comments, positive or negative, are appreciated...

Thanks.

Wayne, actually the walking tour is very very cool...have not seen the ph III pool yet, it looks great. the frogs came out really cool. i'm sure everyone has these, but 2 things that make watercolor very special are those glass blown catails and the street lamps with the holes in them to give a starry efect. its those little things that makes u want to drop $1,000/SF on a house.

I love google earth...just wish they would have more recent images...that was probably nealy 3 yrs ago!!

thanks for sharing!!

[gardening1970]

Sable -

I checked out your walking tour - very cool but the pictures took longer to download than I have to spend at the moment. Will take another look when I have more time. I took lots of photos while biking through Watercolor on Springbreak. Will be nice to see what I missed.

I'm curious to know if you've had success finding fractional co-owners for your house.

Has anyone else on the board heard success stories with fractional homes in SoWal?

[Smiling JOe]

I'm curious to know if you've had success finding fractional co-owners for your house.

Has anyone else on the board heard success stories with fractional homes in SoWal?They may work in many cases, but the only stories which I hear about them usually involve one seller needing to sell, and that can tend to be a problem if the other owners do not want to sell.

[SablePoint]

Thanks for the comments about the Virtual Walking Tour.

The website that is providing/hosting the Tour is Panoramio.com... and they're probably experiencing overloaded servers because I think they're experiencing explosive growth. I've also experience timew where the photos were slow to download... and other times when it's pretty snappy.

[SHELLY]

Did anyone look at it? Maybe it wasn't easy to zoom in and view photos? Did anyone view the larger photos by clicking on the small ones? Are there too many photos?

Any comments, positive or negative, are appreciated...

Thanks.

Well, since you asked....

I can certainly appreciate the time and effort you put into this website, but <here it comes>, it was very time consuming to take in...the clicking, the clinking again, the waiting, the zooming larger, the waiting, the clicking back, the mouse moving, the zooming, the clicking, the zooming, the moving---then on to the SECOND location....wash, rinse, repeat.

After only viewing about 3 or 4 of the locations, I found it tedious and extremely time-consuming...add to that the plug for the fractional sale and it was very much like a time share presentation...without the benefit of a free overnight stay and tickets to Dolly Parton's Dixie Stampede Dinner Show.

.

[egrp]

As far as fractionals go...I feel many folks in that mkt are more interested in the added benefits and amenities, which are available through the JOE fractionals at WC and WSB...refered to as Private Residence Clubs. Since those PRCs are readily available, you may have trouble finding interest in selling a single family home as a fraction in WC, but good luck...you may find interest from folks looking for more than the 5 weeks per year JOE offers.

[SablePoint]

Sable -
I checked out your walking tour - very cool but the pictures took longer to download than I have to spend at the moment. Will take another look when I have more time. I took lots of photos while biking through Watercolor on Springbreak. Will be nice to see what I missed.

Hi Gardening -

I'm hoping that the company that provides the free photo mapping, Panoramio.com, will catch up and get more servers and bandwidth to handle what appears to be overwhelming growth.

And, I was hoping that others might post their own WaterColor, or SoWal tours! I just thought it was a really neat, and effective, way to use the Google Sattelite Maps.

There was a 50 photo maximum that I could get with my free account at Panoramio and I would have liked to post more photos. Hopefully others will do so and post them on SoWal so that we can all see. I'd love to see yours from your biking trip if you ever get time to put together your own tour.

And, the really cool thing is that at some point, a lot of these photos are sent over to Google and incorporated into their Google Earth program... so that anyone using Earth will be able to see all of the photos that people are posting from all over the globe!




I'm curious to know if you've had success finding fractional co-owners for your house.

Has anyone else on the board heard success stories with fractional homes in SoWal?



Our house isn't scheduled to be completed until the end of July.

My wife and I have actually barely started even looking for partners and the first two people I've spoken to are very interested. I'm concerned that I may have "opened the floodgates" by posting my "Virtual Walking Tour" on SoWal when I'm not really ready to start talking to a lot of people about it yet. I completed the site at www.129Bluejack.com about a month ago, but have not promoted it anywhere yet... until, I guess yesterday, when I posted the Walking Tour here.

And I'd like to say that while people loosely use the term "fractionals"... we definitely are not selling fractionals as the industry defines the term. First of all, "Fractionals" are not allowed in WaterColor (unless it's St. Joe selling them like they've done on some of their 2 BR condos). But there are lots of WaterColor homes that are owned by several couples.

We are simply getting several like minded people together to share the ownership of a resort vacation home. I'm sure that everyone reading this knows someone who is a partner on a vacation home somewhere. It simply makes sense to a lot of people. I have several friends and acquaintenances who have partnered on vacation properties. We're looking forward to coming to WaterColor for decades to come... and maybe passing it on to the next generation after we've passed on to a place that's even nicer than WaterColor!

[SablePoint]

They may work in many cases, but the only stories which I hear about them usually involve one seller needing to sell, and that can tend to be a problem if the other owners do not want to sell.

You're right that they do work in many cases... and I'd venture to say they work in the vast majority of cases.

Of great importance is structuring the partnership properly from the start. There's no reason that the other owners must want to sell just because one wants to. We are seeking partners who want to own in WaterColor for a long time to come. But of course, people's lives change... there's also death and divorce... so it's important to address these things in the partnership agreement.

I don't know anyone who is unhappy with their vacation home partnerships. But I'm sure there are some... and of course, those are the ones you're most likely to hear about.

And I don't know about any specific partnerships in WaterColor... but I know someone who is partners on a beach house in South Carolina and there are people standing in line wanting to buy in if one of the partners ever wants to sell. Another friend of mine recently sold his ownerhip in a home in Hilton Head and is now wishing that he hadn't.

I believe that you'll see more and more people partnering in vacation home ownership in the future because it just makes good sense.

[Miss Kitty]

Nice work Sablepoint! I have the best homeowner partner...Mr. Kitty! :clap_1:

[SablePoint]

Nice work Sablepoint! I have the best homeowner partner...Mr. Kitty! :clap_1:

Thanks Miss Kitty. Looks like we're going to be neighbors! I hope to meet you and Mr. Kitty soon!