Premier Auction - March 10, 2007

[P.A.G.]

We will be having an auction on Saturday, March 10, 2007. Please review our website for further details.

www.thepremierauctiongroup.com (http://www.thepremierauctiongroup.com)

Spencer Mann, President
spencer@thepremierauctiongroup.com

[bdc63]

We will be having an auction on Saturday, March 10, 2007. Please review our website for further details.

www.thepremierauctiongroup.com (http://www.thepremierauctiongroup.com)

Spencer Mann, President
spencer@thepremierauctiongroup.com

Hi Premier.

What's the minimum bid / reserve for these two properties?

Are they being offered for auction by an owner, a builder, or a bank?

Thanks.

[P.A.G.]

The minimum bids will be determined by the bidders. When a bidder registers, he/she will write down their minimum bid. We will then take the highest minimum bid and start the auction from there.

The home in Palmeira Villas is being offered by the builder and the home in Destiny is being offered by the occupant of the home.

If you would like to register to bid, please call our office at 622-3247.

[bdc63]

Thanks for your quick response, Premier.

The minimum bids will be determined by the bidders. When a bidder registers, he/she will write down their minimum bid. We will then take the highest minimum bid and start the auction from there. .

so ... it's an absolute auction?

what if you have 20 bidders register, and they all list their minimum as $1?

what if only one bidder registers?

are there any conditions by which the seller can pull the property prior to (or during) the auction?

I suspect that someday (when the market is right) I'll be traveling to participate in auctions. I would appreciate any wisdom/education on the process that you're willing or able to share.

[P.A.G.]

It is not absolute. There is a reserve set, however I can't disclose that. The seller may pull the auction beforehand, but not after the terms of the auction have been announced. I hope this helps. Please let me know if I can answer anymore questions.

[bdc63]

It is not absolute. There is a reserve set, however I can't disclose that. The seller may pull the auction beforehand, but not after the terms of the auction have been announced. I hope this helps. Please let me know if I can answer anymore questions.

Thanks for answering my questions, and good luck. Please update us on the outcome, if you can.

[P.A.G.]

No problem. I will let you know what happens.

[Smiling JOe]

It is not absolute. There is a reserve set, however I can't disclose that. The seller may pull the auction beforehand, but not after the terms of the auction have been announced. I hope this helps. Please let me know if I can answer anymore questions.You have me confused. If the seller has set a reserve, the minimum bid being "set" by the bidders, is pointless, is it not? :idontno: If the seller has set a reserve price, what is the purpose of having a minimum bid being set by the buyers? Just curious.

[P.A.G.]

It would be a disadvantage to the seller to disclose the reserve price and start the bidding there. The seller can still choose to accept a bid that is lower than the reserve price.

[Smiling JOe]

Thanks for your reply. It just seems confusing to talk about the min. bid as though it has real meaning. In my opinion, it sounds like too formal a process for such a simple thing.

[P.A.G.]

I can understand your point of view. The minimum bid is however important though. For example, let's say that the seller has a reserve price of $500,000. Let's say that the highest minimum bid is at $300,000.
So bidding starts at $300,000 and ends at $450,000. The seller decides that he/she is happy with $450,000 and decides to accept the offer. If bidding had started at reserve price, we would have had no bids, and no signed contract for the seller. Hopefully, this explains it a little better. Let's also rephrase "minimum bid" to "opening bid."

[Smiling JOe]

I can understand your point of view. The minimum bid is however important though. For example, let's say that the seller has a reserve price of $500,000. Let's say that the highest minimum bid is at $300,000.
So bidding starts at $300,000 and ends at $450,000. The seller decides that he/she is happy with $450,000 and decides to accept the offer. If bidding had started at reserve price, we would have had no bids, and no signed contract for the seller. Hopefully, this explains it a little better. Let's also rephrase "minimum bid" to "opening bid."I completely understand the purpose of the opening bid and how it may help make a sale, but can't the auctioneer simply start by asking, "who will give me three hundred?" All of the formal stuff seems unneccessary. I will end my comments on that point, here.

[Pirate]

I will go ahead and pay the 450k on the Destiny house. Send me the settlement statement.

[P.A.G.]

Pirate, I bet you would. That would be some kind of steal. The attention to detail is amazing in that home.

[P.A.G.]

SJ, thanks for your input. Please keep us in mind if you have any clients that may be interested in auctions.

[Smiling JOe]

Who was the builder on that house in Palmeira?

[P.A.G.]

The builder was Tim Kirby Construction.

[SHELLY]

We will be having an auction on Saturday, March 10, 2007. Please review our website for further details.


Hey Spense,

In this upcoming auction, do the sellers have to pay the Premier Auction Company a fee in order to have the right to refuse the highest bid?

____________________

i.e., In this article from today's Sun Sentinal entitled: "Some homeowners turning to auctions to unload cash-draining properties" (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/local/sfl-zauctionsbr25jan25,0,3359961.story?coll=sfla-business-front): There's this statement,

"Nicole Hollander, president of Auction USA, said she expects plenty of below-market sales at this event as the housing slump lingers in this region.

Some sellers in the auction paid $1,500 for the right to turn down the highest bid, if they don't feel it's sufficient. But others paid nothing and have agreed to sell to the highest bidder, regardless of price.
_________________________

Anything like that going on in this auction?

.

[P.A.G.]

Shelley,

These are reserve auctions. If the bid meets the reserve, it will sell. The seller may not back out at that point. Even in an absolute auction, we would not offer anything like that for a seller to back out. I think it's very misleading. The seller may only choose to back out of the auction before the terms of the auction are announced on auction day.

Spencer

[bdc63]

I've been reading a bit about real estate auctions of late ... my take is that buyers and sellers are still miles apart on what they think property values are in this market, and this is keeping most auctions from being successful (with the expection of "absolute actions, where the buyer alone determines the "market value"). When a property goes to auction, buyers are expecting an absolute steal (I offer the attached article as evidence of this observation). If auctions are being used by sellers with lofty price aspirations, then I suspect both buyers and seller will walk away from the auction process with a bitter taste in their respective mouths.

The article also addresses the "minimum bid" questions that Smiling Joe brought up.


Low bids take glow off property auction - Starting amounts possible next time

By Pete Skiba
pskiba@news-press.com
Originally posted on January 24, 2007



One Cape Coral homeowner left an auction sponsored by the Miloff Aubuchon Realty Group Inc. elated her home fetched a $400,000 bid.

Then the bottom fell out.

"The bid came over the Internet. They said there was a computer glitch," said Rosemarie Leibert, 79. "They put it back on auction and the bid was $250,000."
Leibert declined to take the bid.

The glitch occurred because the bidder hit $100,000 four times when the first bid didn't go through fast enough, said Marty Higgenbotham, owner of Higgenbotham Auctioneers international Ltd. since 1959.
"One glitch out of 850 bids isn't that bad," Higgenbotham said. "We said we'd like to have seller answers to the bids by Tuesday, but that doesn't mean negotiations don't continue. We probably won't know the results until Friday or Saturday."

The auction last weekend attracted more than 400 during its two-day run at the Crowne Plaza hotel in Bell Tower.

"Bidders placed 33 bids on 44 lots, 64 bids on 66 homes and bids on three out of the seven luxury homes," Higgenbotham said. "We still receive phone calls asking if the homes are sold and can they bid on them."
Neither Miloff Aubuchon officials nor auctioneers would say how many bids were accepted by 5 p.m. Tuesday. At both days of the auction everyone spoken to said the bids came in too low and no one expected them to be accepted.

Leibert was upset with the auction, calling it a "farce." She believes the bids were too low and the auction didn't deliver serious bidders.
"I think a lot of buyers thought they were going to bottom-feed. These are eager but not desperate sellers." Miloff said. "The auction tells me we are in a market correction."

Leibert's three-bedroom, two-bath, 2,200-square-foot home, valued at $255,810 on the Lee County Property Appraiser Web site Leepa.org, remains listed with Miloff Aubuchon.

One buyer who bid $400,000 a lot for each of two neighboring lots on the Caloosahatchee River wasn't surprised his bids were rejected. The lots listed at $799,900.
"I'll bet that less than 25 percent of the sellers accept," said Minnesota developer Larry Gensmer. "I think they could have had a better auction if they had announced a starting bid."

Calling the effort a learning experience, Jeff Miloff, the realty group's sales manager, said another auction planned for March could have different rules.
The bids were so unrealistic the auction showed people didn't do their homework, Miloff said.

"The next auction could have suggested opening bids," Miloff said. "People had no sense of what they were bidding. It made no sense."

[P.A.G.]

bdc,

I can see where people have this opinion. A lot of companies will list and auction any property that they can get their hands on. This leads to such a wide gap between sellers and buyers. We are very selective in the properties that we take on. Our closing percentage is related directly with the our success. If we don't believe that a property has a VERY good chance of selling at the reserve price, then we will not list it. Thanks for your article.

[SHELLY]

I've been reading a bit about real estate auctions of late ... my take is that buyers and sellers are still miles apart on what they think property values are in this market, and this is keeping most auctions from being successful (with the expection of "absolute actions, where the buyer alone determines the "market value").

Most properties in these multi-property auctions are there because the seller has been unsuccessful selling the property in the conventional way. I'd bet the farm that their prices were too high for the 'conventional' market and they're having a hard time swallowing the fact that no one wants their property at the asking price.

Going to auction--where normally an item goes to the highest bidder--should serve as a reality check for the sellers. What is keeping the auctions from being successful isn't the buyers....it's the sellers. The market price for their piece of property in an auction is the highest price a buyer is willing to pay before the hammer goes down; and if the seller doesn't like it.......:idontno:

[bdc63]

bdc,

Our closing percentage is related directly with the our success.

That's interesting. Is "closing percentage" the industries standard measurement? Is this something that a reputable auction house should be willing to disclose to either a buyer or a seller?

Can you give us your closing percentage (as well as your number of auction listings) for '06?

[bdc63]

Most properties in these multi-property auctions are there because the seller has been unsuccessful selling the property in the conventional way. I'd bet the farm that their prices were too high for the 'conventional' market and they're having a hard time swallowing the fact that no one wants their property at the asking price.

Going to auction--where normally an item goes to the highest bidder--should serve as a reality check for the sellers. What is keeping the auctions from being successful isn't the buyers....it's the sellers. The market price for their piece of property in an auction is the highest price a buyer is willing to pay before the hammer goes down; and if the seller doesn't like it.......:idontno:

I see it a bit differently than you do, Shelly.

A market price is determined when you have a seller AND a buyer agree to a price. We pretty much don't even have a "market" right now, because there is no agreement (and nothing is selling). At some point, one of the two sides will decide that they can't wait any longer. Will it be the Buyers that flinch? The Seller? We all have to decide that for ourselves and place our bets accordingly.

[fisher]

I see it a bit differently than you do, Shelly.

A market price is determined when you have a seller AND a buyer agree to a price. We pretty much don't even have a "market" right now, because there is no agreement (and nothing is selling). At some point, one of the two sides will decide that they can't wait any longer. Will it be the Buyers that flinch? The Seller? We all have to decide that for ourselves and place our bets accordingly.

It's already happening and the sellers are the ones flinching. Just look at recent selling prices compared to prices one or two years ago. Many sellers are taking losses on property in order to get out. I have seen no examples of buyers flinching--except of course, the developers of Redfish Village that way overpaid for the lot in Blue Mountain in order to set the record straight on the product offering for the RV condos.

[SHELLY]

I see it a bit differently than you do, Shelly.

A market price is determined when you have a seller AND a buyer agree to a price. We pretty much don't even have a "market" right now, because there is no agreement (and nothing is selling). At some point, one of the two sides will decide that they can't wait any longer. Will it be the Buyers that flinch? The Seller? We all have to decide that for ourselves and place our bets accordingly.

Point taken...so it's neither a seller's market....nor a buyer's market....nor an auction. <insert cricket soundbite here>

With the sellers experiencing death by a thousand payments--my money is riding on the sellers blinking first.


.

[full time]

I see the comment about the crickets and no buyers. Any information on the number of houses under contract along 30-A? I've heard rumor that Watercolor has seen a spike in activity. Can anyone confirm?

[bdc63]

Point taken...so it's neither a seller's market....nor a buyer's market....nor an auction. <insert cricket soundbite here>

With the sellers experiencing death by a thousand payments--my money is riding on the sellers blinking first.


.

... and this statement I agree with totally.

[bdc63]

It's already happening and the sellers are the ones flinching. Just look at recent selling prices compared to prices one or two years ago. Many sellers are taking losses on property in order to get out. I have seen no examples of buyers flinching--except of course, the developers of Redfish Village that way overpaid for the lot in Blue Mountain in order to set the record straight on the product offering for the RV condos.

somebody needs to flinch MORE

[fisher]

I see the comment about the crickets and no buyers. Any information on the number of houses under contract along 30-A? I've heard rumor that Watercolor has seen a spike in activity. Can anyone confirm?

Things are beginning to move a bit in Watercolor--certainly not at a frantic pace but not glacial as it has been for the last 10 or 12 months. However, most of the sales are occurring at ever lower prices. Houses for around $400 per square foot and lots at prices from 2004 and even late 2003. There are losses being taken. The flinching has begun and will continue as builders get more desperate to unload aging inventory and investors dump excess lots.

[full time]

"Houses for around $400 per square foot..."

Wow - is that accurate Fisher? I had heard that the average sales price last year was closer to $600 per foot in Watercolor. I guess you have to be weary about information that doesn't come from the message board.

[fisher]

"Houses for around $400 per square foot..."

Wow - is that accurate Fisher? I had heard that the average sales price last year was closer to $600 per foot in Watercolor. I guess you have to be weary about information that doesn't come from the message board.

A house on Red Cedar sold recently for just over $430 per sq foot, one is pending on Royal Fern with a LIST price of $439, a big home in Cerulean Landing recently closed for around $450, a tennis district house is pending with a LIST price of $477, the auction house in cypress cove sold for about $410, and a home south of 30A in Rosemary sold for about $550.

Close in Phase I houses in Watercolor seem to be selling in the range of $600-700 per square foot. Outside of that area, sellers will be very, very lucky to get over $500.

[full time]

"Outside of that area, sellers will be very, very lucky to get over $500."

I asked a realtor today if what you were saying was correct. She pulled the results from last year which showed in Phase II and III of Watercolor, 15 sales that exceed $500 per square foot - 8 were $500+, 4 were $600+ and 3 were $700+. These were the result from a total of 34 sales last year. I thought you knew what you were talking about - but apparently not. By the way, she told me three more houses in Watercolor went under contract today. Sounds pretty encouraging

[Smiling JOe]

fulltime, for the period of the last six months from today, home sales in WaterColor:
Avg $563.47 per sq ft.
Lowest closed sale price $670,500
Highest closed sale price $3,850,000
Avg closed SALE price $1,688,652
Avg closed LIST price $1,846,342
Tot number of homes sold 19
Average Days on Market 208

Fisher isn't completely off base with his numbers. There were two sales with price per sf being $358/sf and four homes with $/sf being in the $400's.

[fisher]

"Outside of that area, sellers will be very, very lucky to get over $500."

I asked a realtor today if what you were saying was correct. She pulled the results from last year which showed in Phase II and III of Watercolor, 15 sales that exceed $500 per square foot - 8 were $500+, 4 were $600+ and 3 were $700+. These were the result from a total of 34 sales last year. I thought you knew what you were talking about - but apparently not. By the way, she told me three more houses in Watercolor went under contract today. Sounds pretty encouraging

If your realtor pulled a total of 34 sales and only 15 were for over $500, weren't the rest under $500??? Joe's note indicates that my numbers were pretty accurate--there were even a couple of sale for under $400 per square foot, but those may have been in Phase IV but I'm not sure.

I did not go back to the beginning of 2006 in order to assess current trends in prices. I looked at the most recent sales, many of which have been in the $400 to $450 range. I also stated that prices up close in Phase I seem to be running in the $600 to $700 range these days. Regardless, recent sales indicate that prices are still falling. However, maybe the three houses that went under contract today will buck the trend. We'll see the data once they close.

And, yes, activity is picking up in Watercolor which is a good sign. We'll see if prices follow suit. However, the inventory still needs to come down dramatically before I believe that will happen. There are still 130 houses on the market in WC and more coming on line every week as homes under construction hit the market. Also, spring is coming and lots of people put their property ont he market in the spring. March-July will be a good indicator of where the market is headed next.

[full time]

SJ - the difference between $400 per foot and $563 per foot is only off about 29%. In my world, that gets you fired. Only on this board is it considered "not completely off base"

[full time]

"If your realtor pulled a total of 34 sales and only 15 were for over $500, weren't the rest under $500??? "

No, because I didn't post the figures from Phase I. 25% of the houses sold last year in Watercolor were for less than $500 per foot. The remaining 75% sold for between $500 to $800+ per foot.

"Joe's note indicates that my numbers were pretty accurate--"

No, you were not even close. You said sellers not in Phase I would be "very, very lucky" to get over $500 per foot. That's clearly erroneous.

[ctbuga]

I see the comment about the crickets and no buyers. Any information on the number of houses under contract along 30-A? I've heard rumor that Watercolor has seen a spike in activity. Can anyone confirm?


I can CONFIRM that there has been SOLID activity in WaterColor. 3 different homes went "contingent" from the same BUYER! Just under $6M in real estate! Who said there was "no market?" I BEG TO DIFFER!!!!!

[Smiling JOe]

SJ - the difference between $400 per foot and $563 per foot is only off about 29%. In my world, that gets you fired. Only on this board is it considered "not completely off base"Chill out, baby. Fisher never mentioned average price per sf. Please go back and read his post. My data shows you that 6 out of the 19 home sales in the last six months sold in the $400's per sf or less. There were some sales on the high end too. No need to get all huffy, and try to discredit my comment about fisher not being "totally off base." If you go back and read his comment, I think you will see that he wasn't totally off base, as he never mentioned avg sales price. ;-)

[full time]

"Chill out, baby."

No problem dude. Fisher said that you would be lucky to sell a house in Watercolor (not in Phase I) for over $500 per foot. Knowing now that 15 houses in Phase II and III sold for in excess of $500 per foot (9 for over $600 per foot), do you agree with Fisher? If so, you and Fisher should limit yourselves to the entertainment and restaurant boards where subjective opinions are the norm.

[fisher]

Chill out, baby. Fisher never mentioned average price per sf. Please go back and read his post. My data shows you that 6 out of the 19 home sales in the last six months sold in the $400's per sf or less. There were some sales on the high end too. No need to get all huffy, and try to discredit my comment about fisher not being "totally off base." If you go back and read his comment, I think you will see that he wasn't totally off base, as he never mentioned avg sales price. ;-)

Thanks Joe.:D

[kurt]

I can CONFIRM that there has been SOLID activity in WaterColor. 3 different homes went "contingent" from the same BUYER! Just under $6M in real estate! Who said there was "no market?" I BEG TO DIFFER!!!!!

:welcome:

What's the rest of the story?

[Smiling JOe]

A house on Red Cedar sold recently for just over $430 per sq foot, one is pending on Royal Fern with a LIST price of $439, a big home in Cerulean Landing recently closed for around $450, a tennis district house is pending with a LIST price of $477, the auction house in cypress cove sold for about $410, and a home south of 30A in Rosemary sold for about $550.

Close in Phase I houses in Watercolor seem to be selling in the range of $600-700 per square foot. Outside of that area, sellers will be very, very lucky to get over $500.

"Chill out, baby."

No problem dude. Fisher said that you would be lucky to sell a house in Watercolor (not in Phase I) for over $500 per foot. Knowing now that 15 houses in Phase II and III sold for in excess of $500 per foot (9 for over $600 per foot), do you agree with Fisher? If so, you and Fisher should limit yourselves to the entertainment and restaurant boards where subjective opinions are the norm.

fulltime, what I base my comments on are fisher's post, shown above in bold. He was not "COMPLETELY" off base. I stand by my statement. Yes, twice, and now for the third and final time, I used the word "completely" when refering to fisher not being off base. By your comments to me, I can see that you are upset about something. Just chill out. Breathe. If you want only statistical data without the interpretation, perhaps you should start your own data thread. Understanding real estate is not always as simple as a bunch of numbers on paper. There is plenty of subjective information which may be important, and it is not on only the restaurant thread. Thank you. ;-)

[full time]

"Understanding real estate is not always as simple as a bunch of numbers on paper. There is plenty of subjective information which may be important..."

Absolutely Bill - it just depends on what the definition of is is.

[Smiling JOe]

http://www.getthehiv.com/forum/images/smilies/new/TrainWreck1.gif

That is really big of you, fulltime. I believe you, in your first post on this thread, mentioned that you heard a rumor about WaterColor sales. I provide you with factual information, and you want to argue. I just don't understand.http://getthehiv.com/forum/images/smilies/new/Beating_A_Dead_Horse.gif

[full time]

OK, the train wreck was funny, but I've been reading Fisher's rants on here bashing the real estate market and I've come to the conclusion that he doesn't know what he is talking about (and that goes for Mr. Shelly too). Both speak in absolutes which usually means they are absolutely wrong.

[SHELLY]

http://www.getthehiv.com/forum/images/smilies/new/TrainWreck1.gif

That is really big of you, fulltime. I believe you, in your first post on this thread, mentioned that you heard a rumor about WaterColor sales. I provide you with factual information, and you want to argue. I just don't understand.http://getthehiv.com/forum/images/smilies/new/Beating_A_Dead_Horse.gif

SJ,

The requested answer you were supposed to have given was: "That's absolutely right!!!...the sales prices that the Realtor pulled out of her...ah...the Realtor pulled out proves that the local housing market is taking off again like a rocket and your investments are going to make you rich....RICH I TELL YOU!!!.... beyond your wildest dreams!!"

.

.

[full time]

Hey Shelly - Yahoo has some day trader boards. Why don't you join them?

[SHELLY]

Hey Shelly - Yahoo has some day trader boards. Why don't you join them?

Because they don't have the "Open House fun factors" of balloons and fresh baked cookies!


.

[full time]

"Because they don't have the "Open House fun factors" of balloons and fresh baked cookies!"

No, but real estate doesn't have longs and shorts and puts and stops and all that other sensual language of the day trader you desire. Can we open an Ameritrade dating service for Shelly?

[fisher]

The pending house in Phase I Tennis District in Watercolor just closed for $440 per square foot.

[fisher]

...and a nice house south of 30A in Rosemary closed for $557 per square foot. Things do seem to be moving a bit better recently but prices continue to be low and will stay that way until lots more inventory bleeds off the market.

[Smiling JOe]

Actually, two others sold in WaterColor yesterday, one at $544.44 per sq ft and the other at $677.60 per sq ft., that is $1,225,000 and $2,850,000, respectively.

[SHELLY]

Actually, two others sold in WaterColor yesterday, one at $544.44 per sq ft and the other at $677.60 per sq ft., that is $1,225,000 and $2,850,000, respectively.

SJ,

Where they above, below or at asking price?

.

[fisher]

SJ,

Where they above, below or at asking price?

.

The $1.2 million house was on the park in Rose Garden Mews and was about $100k below asking price. This was a very low price for such a good location. The other was $600k below asking price and was a very low price for a house on 30A with a view of the gulf from the tower.

[Smiling JOe]

SJ,

Where they above, below or at asking price?

.They were 7.5% and 18.1% below asking prices, respectively.

[SHELLY]

This upcoming auction on Feb 15th down in South Florida should be interesting to watch:

Tringali's property auction to test waters
By MICHAEL BRAGA


SOUTHERN MANATEE COUNTY -- It is no surprise that Michael Tringali is being forced to sell homes, home sites and land at public auction.

The former partner of Neil Mohamad Husani became considerably over-leveraged during the real estate boom.

When the market turned, he was unable to generate enough income from his home building and real estate investment activities to cover his nearly $87 million in bank debt.

Now a group of Tringali's banks, which includes Bank of America and Bradenton's Coast Bank, are forcing Tringali to hold a public sale on Feb. 15 at the Sarasota Bradenton International Convention Center.

For sale are four luxury homes and 12 home sites in Tringali's Portofino on the Bay development off Vamo Road in Sarasota County; 14 newly constructed, middle-class homes in Golden Verna Estates near Myakka City; and 253 acres in the same area of Eastern Manatee County.

Just 18 months ago, Tringali's luxury homes were selling for $850,000 and up, while the middle-class houses were changing hands at about $400,000 and land near Myakka City was fetching more than $12,000 an acre.

Barbara Anson, a veteran real estate agent with Wagner Realty in Myakka City, said she is especially interested to see what will happen.

She said Tringali has been trying to sell houses at Golden Verna Estates for $400,000 to $500,000, which she believes is much too high.

At the same time, Anson predicts that Tringali's 253-acre spread in East Manatee will fetch no more than $1.5 million, or $6,000 per acre.

That is in spite of the fact that Husani paid $3.04 million, or $12,000 per acre, for the property in August 2005, and quickly sold it to Tringali in a cashless transaction valued $7.6 million, or $30,000 per acre :eek: .

It is Coast Bank that is now on the hook for the property. The troubled Bradenton bank loaned Tringali $4.94 million in August 2005, and Tringali stopped paying late last year.

For the bank to recoup its losses, Anson believes the property will have to be sold for $19,525 per acre. But that is impossible, she said.

"It is agricultural land. Nothing has been done down at the county to subdivide it."

Buyers will pay no more than $6,000 per acre, Anson said. That means the bank will have to take a $12,500 per acre loss on the property -- a total hit of $3.1 million -- if it wants to sell on auction day.

[SHELLY]

UPDATE ON THE ABOVE AUCTION:

Bids low at Tringali auction
Offers on investor's foreclosed property come in at a fraction of their original prices
By MICHAEL BRAGA

MANATEE COUNTY -- Martin Higgenbotham did everything he could to get people bidding on Michael Tringali's high-end Sarasota and rural Manatee County properties.

The auctioneer joked, pleaded, cajoled and berated the standing-room-only crowd of 150 real estate agents, developers, bankers, ranchers and homeowners that filled an anteroom of the Sarasota Bradenton Convention Center.

But everybody on Thursday night seemed to be waiting for someone else to raise a hand or shout out a price.

In the end, high bids on properties came in at a half or a third of what the real estate sold for at the height of Southwest Florida's phenomenal boom.

The 253-acre tract that Tringali's partner, Neil Mohamad Husani, bought in August 2005 for $3.04 million, or $12,000 per acre, went for just $1.6 million -- $6,500 per acre.

The high bid for a 3,300-square-foot luxury home in Tringali's Portofino on the Bay subdivision off Vamo Road in Sarasota, that might have commanded more than $1 million in the boom, was just $500,000. Bids for undeveloped lots in the same subdivision that sold for $325,000 and up in 2005, came in at $170,000 or less.

And finished homes in the Golden Verna Estates subdivision near Myakka City, selling for around $380,000 during the boom, generated bids of no more than $240,000 and most garnered no more than $170,000.

"That's low," said Barbara Anson, a veteran Realtor with Wagner Realty in Myakka City. "But this is an auction."

Higgenbotham Auctioneers, the Lakeland organization hired to conduct the sale, had hoped to sell 32 of Tringali's properties, but many, especially the building lots at Portofino on the Bay, didn't draw any bidders.

It will not be clear until Monday night whether bankers, who loaned millions of dollars to Tringali during the boom, will be willing to accept the bids that did come in.

They already have turned down Jim Jackson's $240,000 bid for a four-bedroom home at Golden Verna. So the Punta Gorda resident, who manages the Wal-Mart Supercenter in Arcadia, asked the bank's representative how much the bank would take for three-bedroom home in the same subdivision.

The answer was $217,000. So Jackson bid $217,500.

"I'm sure I got that one," he said.

Though Tringali might have expected some closure from the auction, it will likely be just the first step in the long, drawn-out process of repaying banks for nearly $87 million that he borrowed with Husani's help.

During a 21-month buying spree between July 2004 and March 2006, Husani bought nearly 2,000 acres for $42 million and sold them to Tringali for $98 million in cashless transactions. Tringali then used the inflated sales prices to raise $83 million from area banks.

But with the downturn in the real estate market, Tringali was unable to generate enough sales to meet his obligations, and his banks began to foreclose.

Clearwater-based Mercantile Bank was the first. Then Bradenton's Coast Bank and North Carolina's Wachovia Bank.

Fort Lauderdale-based BankAtlantic and Signature Bank of St. Petersburg bought Tringali's properties in lieu of foreclosure, while Cincinnati-based Fifth Third Bank persuaded one of its good Southwest Florida customers to take over Tringali's property in downtown Sarasota in return for a $9.8 million loan.

The last bank to foreclose was Orion Bank, which slapped a lien on Trinagli's 289-acre property off Dog Kennel Road in eastern Sarasota County this month.

Though Tringali bought his Portofino on the Bay and Golden Verna Estates subdivision before meeting Husani, those projects also fell victim to the developer's financial problems.

Golden Verna Estates was Tringali's first development in the area.

He paid $2.4 million for the land in two transactions, receiving loans from Bank of America and the now defunct Brasota Mortgage Co.

He has sold more than 60 completed homes or building lots in the development since then. During the past six months, finished homes in Golden Verna have fetched $217,000 to $644,000, with a median price of $383,000.

Bids at Thursday's auction came it at just $160,000 to $240,000.

Two years after buying Golden Verna, Tringali paid $1.15 million for 15 lots at the Portofino on the Bay development, receiving $7.26 million loan commitments from Amsouth, Signature Bank and Bradenton's First Priority Bank.

Tringali sold one of the lots to his brother, Dominic Tringali, for $350,000, another to an outside buyer for $325,000, and bought a third for himself for $472,500.

He then began building homes on four of the lots, while waiting for buyers to express interest in the rest.

Since June 2005, Tringali has not sold a single home or building lot in the development, Sarasota County Property Appraiser records show.

The highest price paid for a lot at the Thursday auction was $170,000, while bids for complete or nearly complete homes ranged from $400,000 to $500,000 -- too little for the bankers that financed them.

Tringali's 253-acre tract near Myakka City was bought by an unidentified Manatee County rancher for $6,500 per acre.

That is $500 per acre more than the price Anson expected the property to sell for.

But it is $5,500 less than the $12,000-per-acre price Husani paid for the property in August 2005 and $23,500 less than the $30,000-per-acre price Tringali supposedly paid a week later.

If it accepts that price, Coast Bank, which loaned $4.94 million to Tringali in August 2005, would have to take a $3.3 million loss.

Though Higgenbotham told his audience that they were missing tremendous opportunities, Re/Max agent Garrick Newman expects there will be a lot more opportunities for the region's buyers to get deals at auction.

"We'll see a lot more of these."

[P.A.G.]

If anyone is interested in bidding, you may do so by calling the office or through our website. We have quite a few so far.

850-622-3247
www.thepremierauctiongroup.com

[SHELLY]

Thanks for answering my questions, and good luck. Please update us on the outcome, if you can.

No problem. I will let you know what happens.

OK Spence, how'd the auction turn out yesterday?

Give us all the details...and were there balloons??...what colors did you use?


.

[P.A.G.]

Shelly,

You should have been there. We did execute a contract on the Palmeira home. We are still in negotiations on the Destiny home. Sorry, but no balloons.

[30A Skunkape]

Auctions must be the way to go. Yesterday, a plane buzzed the beach at Grayton with a 'propertyfiresale.com' banner in tow:floor:

[30A Skunkape]

Auctions must be the way to go. Yesterday, a plane buzzed the beach at Grayton with a 'propertyfiresale.com' banner in tow:floor:

Oops, made a mistake. Visited their website (ad paid off!) and they don't auction, just sell property for people willing to take a loss:lol:

[Smiling JOe]

Shelly,

You should have been there. We did execute a contract on the Palmeira home. We are still in negotiations on the Destiny home. Sorry, but no balloons.

What I don't understand is why auction companies advertise that they will sell property on the spot, yet there are negotiaitions after the auction. :idontno: I do note that I have not seen PAG advertising this, but I do see other companies doing so.

[Smiling JOe]

"Chill out, baby."

No problem dude. Fisher said that you would be lucky to sell a house in Watercolor (not in Phase I) for over $500 per foot. Knowing now that 15 houses in Phase II and III sold for in excess of $500 per foot (9 for over $600 per foot), do you agree with Fisher? If so, you and Fisher should limit yourselves to the entertainment and restaurant boards where subjective opinions are the norm.
My comments of agreeing with Fisher's sold prices at that time had nothing to do with this other statement. I think you are "fishing" for a fight. Maybe you can take it to another place. If you go back and actually read my comment and get rid of your anger, you will see this part of my comment:

"My data shows you that 6 out of the 19 home sales in the last six months sold in the $400's per sf or less. There were some sales on the high end too."

Looking at the last six months of c;osed home sales in WaterColor, the average price per sq ft is $537. There are 21 sales and the lowest price sale was $670,000 and the highest price sale was $3.85 Million. To balance out those sales in the lower price range around $425/sq ft, there are about 5 sales in the Cerulean Park and Western Lake areas to bring the average up tremendously, with those sq ft prices being from $700-$800 per sq ft.

[hi n dry]

I was at the Palmeira Villa auction and the winning bid was $810k.

[Smiling JOe]

I'd say that $900K (buyer's premium of 10% on top of auction price) is a great buy for a home in Pameira. It is hard to beat that location.

[bdc63]

What I don't understand is why auction companies advertise that they will sell property on the spot, yet there are negotiaitions after the auction. :idontno: I do note that I have not seen PAG advertising this, but I do see other companies doing so.

I took that to mean that the reserve wasn't met by the highest bidder, and rather than everyone involved in the process losing out on their commissions, they're "negotiating" with both parties. (and, by "negotiating", of course I mean that you go to the seller and say "you know, in this sinking market, you may not be able to get that good of an offer again if you wait six months,", then you go to the buyer and say "you know, this market is turning around, and you may not be able to get a price this good again EVER!"

So, at this point, the auction was 50% successful ... one sold at or above reserve (presumably) and the other auction did not receive any bids at or above the reserve price.

[SHELLY]

I was at the Palmeira Villa auction and the winning bid was $810k.

Thanks H&D.

P.A.G.'s report was somewhat lacking in detail.

How about a "man on the street" report on the auction experience?

Number of bidders, opening bid, pace of auction, quality of snacks?


.

[P.A.G.]

hi n dry,

The winning bid was 810k, but it didn't meet the reserve. After negotiations, we came to a better price.

[bdc63]

hi n dry,

The winning bid was 810k, but it didn't meet the reserve. After negotiations, we came to a better price.

so, both properties up for auction failed to meet or beat their reserve price?

[Camp Creek Kid]

so, both properties up for auction failed to meet or beat their reserve price?

What does it matter? It sounds like they got a sale.

[bdc63]

What does it matter? It sounds like they got a sale.

Only realtors look at it as binary ... sale or no sale.

At this stage of the game, buyers and sellers are interested in a lot more than that.

This property was originally appraised at over $1.6 million in 2005, according to an email that I received from PAG. They wouldn't disclose the reserve price when I asked. Now it seems there was a sale in the $810K range, but that didn't meet the sellers reserve. So, 50%-ish off of the 2005 market highs, but the seller had even higher expectations. As a matter of fact, there were two auctions yesterday that didn't meet the sellers reserve.

That's a ton of information to potential buyers like me. ie. Sellers still don't get what is happening in this market if they are setting reserves too high. Don't waste a plane ticket to come down and look around until you see signs that they do. Also ... 50% off 2005 apprasials is an interesting sound bite.

If I (and others on this site) didn't ask the questions and dig for information, I wouldn't know any of this. I'd love to find a realtor that I could trust to provide this type of information and honest analysis to me, but they seem to be an endangered species. On the other hand, the Davidkis Lereahpus seems to be multiplying like rabbits!

[P.A.G.]

bdc63,

It's definitely worth the plane ticket to come down. I've started buying again over the last few months. There are some deals to be had if you can find the reasonable sellers. Both of the reserves were set at reasonable levels.

[bdc63]

bdc63,

It's definitely worth the plane ticket to come down. I've started buying again over the last few months. There are some deals to be had if you can find the reasonable sellers. Both of the reserves were set at reasonable levels.

Thank you PAG for your views, and for not being ticked about all of the ranting I've done on your thread.

I think that there is going to be another leg down as the credit crisis plays out ... I'll likely save my next trip down until we see what that looks like ...

[Smiling JOe]

Auctions must be the way to go. Yesterday, a plane buzzed the beach at Grayton with a 'propertyfiresale.com' banner in tow:floor:You mean this one???

[SHELLY]

Auctions must be the way to go. Yesterday, a plane buzzed the beach at Grayton with a 'propertyfiresale.com' banner in tow:floor:

Apparently the guy hasn't read the Survey of Emerging Market Conditions put out by the UF Bergstrom Center for Real Estate Studies.


.

[Smiling JOe]

from propertyfiresale.com -- "The Mission of this site is to allow sellers an avenue to market their real estate for a loss in exchange for a swift and smooth real estate closing." They state that they won't have any listings until summer 07. It is also apparent that they may start charging people to see their listings. From their site, "
Active Real Estate Offerings coming in the Summer of 2007. Register now (while it's free) to be alerted regarding future opportunities!"

:floor:

[rapunzel]

What I don't understand is the criteria that the owner take a loss on a property. It seems to me that someone who bought for $1.2 million in 2005 might qualify as a fire sale if they listed at $1.1, but the guy with a similar house next door couldn't list the house he bought in 2000 for$700,000, even though it would be more of a "fire sale". Is there some advantage to selling property for a loss from the realtor/broker perspective?

[sberry123]

What I don't understand is the criteria that the owner take a loss on a property. It seems to me that someone who bought for $1.2 million in 2005 might qualify as a fire sale if they listed at $1.1, but the guy with a similar house next door couldn't list the house he bought in 2000 for$700,000, even though it would be more of a "fire sale". Is there some advantage to selling property for a loss from the realtor/broker perspective?

Why do you need this? Just lower your price, it will show up as a lower price in MLS, you may take a loss or you may not take a loss. What does it matter? It is all about the market, what someone is willing to pay for your property. Just my $.02.:idontno:

This Real Estate site was created after being part of a substantial real estate loss. In 2005 I partnered with two others on a vacant lot in Destin, Florida with intentions of building a "spec" home. After closing and some delays we decided to sell our vacant land for $100,000 less than our original purchase price. That capital loss was then added to broker fees,
interest paid, and closing cost for a total of approximately $170,000.

[bdc63]

Why do you need this? Just lower your price, it will show up as a lower price in MLS, you may take a loss or you may not take a loss. What does it matter? It is all about the market, what someone is willing to pay for your property. Just my $.02.:idontno:

This Real Estate site was created after being part of a substantial real estate loss. In 2005 I partnered with two others on a vacant lot in Destin, Florida with intentions of building a "spec" home. After closing and some delays we decided to sell our vacant land for $100,000 less than our original purchase price. That capital loss was then added to broker fees,
interest paid, and closing cost for a total of approximately $170,000.

maybe it is a FSBO site, with no/minimum commissions and fees :idontno:

[Smiling JOe]

maybe it is a FSBO site, with no/minimum commissions and fees :idontno:
It is difficult to tell because they don't list the brokerage name beside the contact (Realtor) name and number on each page of their site (which I am fairly certain is a violation of law), but I believe that White Sands Realty does charge for their listings.

One other thing of which is a concern to me regarding this particular marketing technique is that it shows the motivation of the seller. I sure hope they are not taking the listings as a Single Agent or Transaction Brokerage. If so, they may also be breaking the Realtors Code of Ethics.

I think that before they spent money on flying a banner around, they should have read up on some basic rules and laws.

[bdc63]

One other thing of which is a concern to me regarding this particular marketing technique is that it shows the motivation of the seller. I sure hope they are not taking the listings as a Single Agent or Transaction Brokerage. If so, they may also be breaking the Realtors Code of Ethics.

I think that it might be an interesting marketing technique. I gotta tell ya, as a potential buyer if I could sort the MLS by "sellers that HAVE to sell, and will consider ANY offer", I would love it.

And as for the Realtors Code of Ethics, I suspect there was some 'bending' of the code during the orgy known as the real estate boom, and I suspect there will be some 'bending' as the bust continues to unfold.

[Franny]

I see the comment about the crickets and no buyers. Any information on the number of houses under contract along 30-A? I've heard rumor that Watercolor has seen a spike in activity. Can anyone confirm?

There has been an increase in activity in Watercolor with several homes under contract. If you want the exact numbers PM me with your email address.

[fisher]

There has been an increase in activity in Watercolor with several homes under contract. If you want the exact numbers PM me with your email address.

There has been a definite increase in activity in home sales in Watercolor, especially compared to 2006. Good news for the market. I have also noticed a bit of an uptick in Rosemary, but not much activity in Watersound or Alys. Anyone know whats going on in Cypress Dunes, The Preserve and property outside the major developments? How about land and condo sales?

I believe Watercolor also fared better than the other communities in 2006--although better than the others wasn't saying much. I have always thought Watercolor had the broadest appeal and would do better than the other areas in downturns or upturns.

It will be interesting to see what prices these homes are going for and to see how the actual closings in Walton County in Feb, March and April will actually compare to 2006 and 2005 when the Real Trend reports are issued.

[hi n dry]

There has been a definite increase in activity in home sales in Watercolor, especially compared to 2006. Good news for the market. I have also noticed a bit of an uptick in Rosemary, but not much activity in Watersound or Alys. Anyone know whats going on in Cypress Dunes, The Preserve and property outside the major developments? ....

Lots have recently sold for around $200k in the Preserve at Grayton Beach.
Kelly Hamilton at Coldwell Banker 850.622.1074 (CELL: 850.225.7337)
did a great job of helping a friend of mine find a good deal on a lot there.

[Pirate]

There has been an increase in activity in Watercolor with several homes under contract. If you want the exact numbers PM me with your email address.


Any time several homes is a "spike" you know it ain't pretty. There are a few deals to be had however, and some sellers realize this isn't going to end tomorrow.