Nature Walk Beach Club & Retail Developement NOT yet approved! THere is still time!!

[KATO]

Nature Walk Beach Club and retail development NOT approved yet!! There is still time!
The development

Nature Walk purchased the Old Seagrove Motel Beach front property. If approved, it will include 20 gulf front condos, retails shops with minimal parking and a Beach Club with beach service, pool, alcohol etc.. The Beach Club was added in an effort to help sell the 500+ lots in Nature Walk subdivision. Anyone that is an owner in Nature Walk will be a member of the club. They are projecting that they will shuttle bus 2500 people in per day during high season. The Seagrove Motel at full capacity was 200 people per day.

The Problems

If this Beach Club is approved, it will set the standard for all developers to be able to buy a parcel of beach front property (not designated as residential) and build a beach club on it for their development regardless of the location of their subdivision. This is not just a Seagrove problem-- This is a 30-A problem. If approved, these "beach clubs" will start popping up all over 30-A whenever the right parcel is for sale.

Walton County does not have the manpower or infrastructure in place to support all the traffic, illegal parking, beach clean up and patrol required to support this many people in such a concentrated area. That is why Walton has so many public beach accesses in place. To keep people and cars spread out. Walton also has a 50' height limit on all buildings. That is to prevent the building of high rise condos. Another method of preventing a large number of people in a concentrated area. Busing in 2500 people per day to 340' of beach frontage is just like having a high rise condo!!

Who is going to pay for all the additional support/services that will be required to handle the increased head count? As this will probably cause a decrease in property value and Walton will be forced to decrease property tax, who will bear the burden of the expenses? It is clear that one piece of property//beach club itself will not generate enough revenue to cover all the expenses it creates the county and us. What if the developer has a subdivision in another county and only has to pay taxes on one small piece of property?? Are we talking decrease in property value and increase in property tax?

Everyone has the right to enjoy and use the beach but I doubt that everyone in Nature Walk would end up in the exact same area if there was not a beach club to attract them there. But, if it is "their" club, then they will come and all those that do not want to take the shuttle will drive. Imagine all the traffic with the cars and shuttle buses!!

Then there are the beaches. What kind of impact will 2500 people per day have on 340' of beach? Goodbye sea turtles and sea oats. Will dunes ever recover with that kind of traffic? Again.. this will be a 30-A problem ...not just a Seagrove problem.. Greed can cloud peoples better judgement... Beach Clubs will spring up everywhere if just ONE is approved.

Everyone needs to consider the long term impact an approval of the Beach Club will have on all of 30-A. We need to fight to preserve the charm and way of life of this precious area. There are so few coastal areas like ours left. Please help to preserve this area!!

I urge everyone to not only email all the commissioners but to also attend the PUBLIC hearing where the commissioners will decide if they are going to approve the Nature Walk Retail and Beach Club development. I beleive the meeting date is Jan 24th. You can verify this on the Walton.gov site.
Below are the commissioners email address. Please ask them to deny at minimum the approval of the Beach CLub.

meacindy@co.walton.fl.us

brascott@co.walton.fl.us

prikenneth@co.walton.fl.us

jonlarry@co.walton.fl.us

comsara@co.walton.fl.us

Best and thanks for your support!!!!!!!!

[Smiling JOe]

I have a question for you. Where do you suggests that beach goers living further than walking distance drive and park to access the beach? Sure, there are many public accesses, but how many have parking? How many have parking for more than 20 vehicles? How many in the Seagrove area allow parking on the streets? I hear you b_tching, but where is your solution? If Nature Walk will have 2500 beachgoers at maximum in one day, where do you suggest they park to access the beach? Bramble doesn't have parking for that many vehicles, the Seaside/WaterColor Access has the largest parking area but that access won't come close to handling that capacity, plus, people tend to drive the shortest distance. I guess that means that they will park up and down the streets and in people's yards, until onwers get pissed. The County will still need just as much service employees whether or not these people are spread between five existing public accesses or on private access. Are you suggesting that Nature Walk should not have been allowed to be developed?


As I stated in another thread regarding this same issue of Nature Walk, the real problem here in SoWal is the lack of public parking and restrooms at public beach accesses. If parking was adequate and restrooms were available and clean, these developers wouldn't have to try to find a place to dump their owners and guests.

Also as I stated earlier, there is more than 340' of public beach in that area and there is no private beach. Do a little research so that you will know what you are saying if you decide to speak at the meeting tomorrow.


Take it or leave it, it is just my opinion. I like the old bumper sticker I saw a few years back, "Stop b_tching and start a revolution."

[Smiling JOe]

Here is my post from the other thread. Apparently it was in response to this issue, but in the Redfish Village access thread:

This one is slightly different than the one in BMB for Redfish Village because the beach in front of Seagrove Villas was dedicated to the public for Swimming Park , on the plat book 2, page 50, recorded in 1950. See attachment of plat. Seagrove Villas property consist of lots 14-17, Blk 7.

So, while the access is intended to be private, the owners will not be dumped onto a short stretch of privately owned beach. In fact, I don't see privately owned beach property within 500 ft in either direction.

I am not saying that this private access is what is needed in Seagrove. I think the reoccurring problem I continue to see is the lack of public parking at public beach accesses to accomodate the public's use of the beach. I can understand the reasons why developments want to provide a way for their owners and guests to access the beach. This problem will not go away until the County or TDC buys or takes property near the public accesses to the public beaches so that ample parking is provided. If the County wants to keep the tourists and the locals, they better get to work at buying property for public parking.

[KATO]

First of all, I did not say that the beach is "private" -- It is not and I have done my research. I said they have 340' of frontage. Let's be logical about it. They are not going to spread out past the 340' regardless of the beach being public or private. Everyone is going to want to be close to the bathrooms, pool, and bar. Not to mention the people setting up the chairs. You really thing they are going to drag those things 500' down the beach. Of course not. There will be a density problem...and it will look like like Sandestin. I am pretty sure everyone coming to 30-A comes here for a reason...because it is NOT Sandestin.

As for the parking, it IS a problem and has always been a problem and this will create a bigger problem than we already have since most of these people will opt to drive to the Beach Club. Bottom line, if you are going to build a "private" Beach Club then you should provide enough parking to accomodate all your members. If they want the beach club then maybe they should nix the condos and the retail shops and use that space for parking. But no, the developer wants to maximize their profits and make their problem our problem.

Maybe Walton should use some of our tax money to buy frontage and put in some additional public access points with parking. But considering the access point at Greenwood ( for Example) has not been rebuilt since 05, I do not see that happening.

And NO I do not think the county should have approved Nature Walk subdivision on such a large scale. That is poor planning and Walton should have considered the infrastructure that is currently in place and what options there are to expand it before setting the area up for disaster.

Speaking of disaster, when all those lots sell, it will sure make evacuating from a hurricane interesting!

If you have any answers on how to resolve this mess, I'd love to hear them.

[jimmyp5]

Are you suggesting that Nature Walk should not have been allowed to be developed?

No, not at the upzoned density that was granted. And then after final approval, they even went back and asked to upzone a portion of the single-family to higher-density multifamily. All on a piece of land with no contiguous beach frontage, no off-site beach frontage (at the time of review & approval) and only one long, skinny vehicle way in & out, except for a construction access road running along the back of our subdivision that'll be in use no doubt for years to come.

[Sandie]

KATO--
I'm unable to send email to the addresses you have listed. I want to email each one (several times) for I love Seagrove just as is. I can't imagine what this will do to the beautiful area--we call our 2nd home. Please let me know how to email each one. Thanks SPB

[Sandie]

By the way, it is my understanding Nature Walk is also trying to purchase the Old Wheel House area, this will become their access road. Golf carts will be able to drive to the beach club. Now--that will be just great!! Not only a ton of people but golf carts crossing 30-A. What are those people thinking, oh, I see they are not THINKING!!!!!!:bang:

[jimmyp5]

By the way, it is my understanding Nature Walk is also trying to purchase the Old Wheel House area, this will become their access road.

You don't mean access from the NatureWalk development to the beach club .... and there'd be no reason to drive to the Wheelhouse in a car/bus and then drive your golf cart across the street .... what do you mean?

[Sandie]

They may bus people that are renting in Nature Walk, I don't believe everyone will have a golf cart, but some will. I'm just saying what I heard about Nature Walk trying to purchase Wheel House and making an access road to the beach club. Sorry if I didn't make any sense.

[Smiling JOe]

No, not at the upzoned density that was granted. And then after final approval, they even went back and asked to upzone a portion of the single-family to higher-density multifamily. All on a piece of land with no contiguous beach frontage, no off-site beach frontage (at the time of review & approval) and only one long, skinny vehicle way in & out, except for a construction access road running along the back of our subdivision that'll be in use no doubt for years to come.
I hear your concerns and they are valid. Kato, you also make a valid point about lazy people not walking further than they have to once they reach the access.

So if you were a County Commissioner, where would you draw the line? If Nature Walk shouldn't have been allowed, should any further development in WalCo be allowed? What about Owl's Head, Freeport Plantation, Hammock Bay, Windswept, etc, none of which have contiguous beach frontage nor off-site beach frontage? It sounds like you want to require a developer to buy and create private beach access parking for each of a developments properties, but you are simulatenously agains private access dumping these people onto the beach? Where should the line be drawn? Don't you think those owners in Owl's Head will want to visit the beach on occasion?

Again, the lack of parking is the issue and the County is going to suffer greatly in the future if the issue is not resolved.

BTW, Golf Carts are illegal to operate on the roads in WalCo, so even crossing the road would be a violation.

[jimmyp5]

So ... where would you draw the line?

Somewhere near lower densities and fewer total approvals, I guess. Or, by requiring much more mitigation re traffic, parking, school impacts, etc. than have been required so far.

Even though half of SoWal is public land -- thank goodness, truly our salvation I believe, in many ways -- the private lands being developed could've been done so with a lot more forethought by govt. and by the developers.

Having a better/stronger/more coherent master plan and land use code could've helped, but even sticking to the actual rules in place could've helped (e.g., 5-acre minimum for VMU zoning).

The principles of 1) private property rights above all else, and 2) development=good, more development=more good are apt to bury this beautiful place until it looks more like Anywhere, USA.

[Smiling JOe]

Somewhere near lower densities and fewer total approvals, I guess. Or, by requiring much more mitigation re traffic, parking, school impacts, etc. than have been required so far.

Even though half of SoWal is public land -- thank goodness, truly our salvation I believe, in many ways -- the private lands being developed could've been done so with a lot more forethought by govt. and by the developers.

Having a better/stronger/more coherent master plan and land use code could've helped, but even sticking to the actual rules in place could've helped (e.g., 5-acre minimum for VMU zoning).

The principles of 1) private property rights above all else, and 2) development=good, more development=more good are apt to bury this beautiful place until it looks more like Anywhere, USA.:clap_1: When are you running for office? Well said. There seems to be a great lack of consistency in WalCo government.

[KATO]

Sorry the email addresses did not work!

Try the link below to the Walton website. There is a tab at the top with the commissioners info. One for each district, their email addresses are there.

http://www.co.walton.fl.us/default.asp?ID=2



Anyone that would like to be involved, feel free to email me directly. We are trying to make a difference even if it is just minimizing the scale of what they want to do.

thanks!

[BeachSteelers]

I went to the meeting yesterday and this is what I see:

525 platted houses@Approx.$1 million per home=$525mil
21 condos@$2+ million each =$42 mil
546 beach club homeowner memberships@ $50,000 value each=$27+mil
It's a 1/2 billion dollar project which will make any opposition to it tough.
These are the developers numbers. The beach club would see constant traffic flow from private cars and shuttles from 8am till 8pm.
At 4 people per home thats nearly 2500 people w/entitlement to the club. So say even 1/3 on a big holiday weekend go to the club. Thats 800+ people( using their numbers) on 340' beach and at the club. A 10 passenger would need 160 trips to service those needs. 2 vans 80 trips. Are people going to wait for overcrowded vans or will they drive themselves adding to traffic? I'll bet the latter.
There's no limit on memberships. Plus some homes will be rentals which makes their 4 person per home numbers seem rather light.
This club will change the feel of Seagrove forever. 30A by the County's own admission is 500 cars a day over capacity. Will this help, I think not. Neither will turning lanes or traffic circle at 395.
I don't feel a need as a Seagrove homeowner to sacrifice our beach and community because some developer cleared 500+ lots that he's having trouble moving. It benefits the community in no way whatsoever. It only diminishes it.
I'm Ok with there condo plans. But their plans call for no limits on members to the club which by their own numbers is too much for this small area. The only public facility there is a convenience store. Is that a benefit to the community? There's 2 already w/n 1/2 mile of it.
They've contacted people w/n 500 ft of it but I think it has a much larger impact than that.
This is not a solution to beach access or parking. It's just a way for a developer to futher line their pockets with greenbacks at the expense of the community. Which when their done the Developer will be able to move on while we're left with the consequences of excess traffic,trash,parking problems, low pay service jobs. I see way more negatives than positives. Bye, I'm gonna hug my trees now.
Peaceful Holidays to All.

[Smiling JOe]

BeachSteelers, your numbers appear fairly accurate, but do note that they are not selling memberships to the Beach Club. That number is a perceived Value, but I find it difficult to believe $50,000 per membership would be realistic. That might be the answer to solve the riddle. Charge owners $50,000 per membership and that place will be vacant. I have even suggested to NatureWalk's representative that they could sell memberships at $10,000 - $15,000 each, and that would allow for their exclusive usage from Memorial Day to Labor Day. During the rest of the year, all NatureWalk owners and guest could use the Beach Club without membership. I feel pretty certain that what I was saying was going straight through his head and out the other ear.

By the way, I think your trip totals may be off because many visitors to the beach in this general area of 30A will frequent the beach more than once per day. In my opinion, you could really break apart their Study from Abbott regarding the average frequency of the time people spend on the beach. Find out what area in particular the study was done. Also point out that their average includes 24 hours a day and 365 days a year. We all know that the real season does not include that many days. For anyone interested in what the developer is saying based on their study from Abbott is that the average visitor to the beach stays 4 days and frequents the beach only one out of the four days, and on average, spends two hours on the beach. (:floor: - per year:floor:!) Tell those boys to get a new study that is specific to the tourist habits of 30A. They say that the Study also shows the reason for coming to the beaches. Number four on the list is the beach. :floor: Shopping and Golf were two of the others beating out "the beach." :floor: I would like to know where the majority of these golfers are playing since there is not a public course anywhere in SoWal, South of the Bay and east of Sandestin.

[jimmyp5]

SJ, if what you're saying -- about the consultant's assumptions in the traffic/beach use study -- is correct, and if the county officials actually believe those kinds of assumptions are +/- accurate, we in a heap o' trouble.

[Smiling JOe]

SJ, if what you're saying -- about the consultant's assumptions in the traffic/beach use study -- is correct, and if the county officials actually believe those kinds of assumptions are +/- accurate, we in a heap o' trouble.You are correct, and the developer's answer to you calling BS on their study will be, "prove it." Show us your data. Where are your stats? We paid to have a study done.

I encourage you to get a copy of the study and note the particulars of location. Also, break down those averages by the period from Memorial Day to Labor Day rather than using the entire year. I have not seen the study, but I have been told that it is not a recent study, so that might also have some weight. From the stats I heard from the study, I would venture to guess that it may include SoWal (but maybe not), but it is probably extended to at least Destin and Ft Walton Beach. It might also be for Panama City Beach. Get a copy of that study, and begin using it against them. Pick it apart, and ask why the developer did not use a study pertaining to this area. Traffic flow, the lack of, will be the biggest burden of this Beach Access in my opinion. Already traffic is bad at 395/30, and a while a round-a-bout might help today's load, it will do nothing for the increased loads of 2009 when this project gets completed.

[STL Don]

BeachSteelers, your numbers appear fairly accurate, but do note that they are not selling memberships to the Beach Club. That number is a perceived Value, but I find it difficult to believe $50,000 per membership would be realistic. That might be the answer to solve the riddle. Charge owners $50,000 per membership and that place will be vacant. I have even suggested to NatureWalk's representative that they could sell memberships at $10,000 - $15,000 each, and that would allow for their exclusive usage from Memorial Day to Labor Day. During the rest of the year, all NatureWalk owners and guest could use the Beach Club without membership. I feel pretty certain that what I was saying was going straight through his head and out the other ear.

By the way, I think your trip totals may be off because many visitors to the beach in this general area of 30A will frequent the beach more than once per day. In my opinion, you could really break apart their Study from Abbott regarding the average frequency of the time people spend on the beach. Find out what area in particular the study was done. Also point out that their average includes 24 hours a day and 365 days a year. We all know that the real season does not include that many days. For anyone interested in what the developer is saying based on their study from Abbott is that the average visitor to the beach stays 4 days and frequents the beach only one out of the four days, and on average, spends two hours on the beach. (:floor: - per year:floor:!) Tell those boys to get a new study that is specific to the tourist habits of 30A. They say that the Study also shows the reason for coming to the beaches. Number four on the list is the beach. :floor: Shopping and Golf were two of the others beating out "the beach." :floor: I would like to know where the majority of these golfers are playing since there is not a public course anywhere in SoWal, South of the Bay and east of Sandestin.

Last I heard, Santa Rosa golf club was open to the public.

[Smiling JOe]

Last I heard, Santa Rosa golf club was open to the public.I stand corrected. Question, do you think that more people come to SoWal to play golf or go to the beach?

[BeachSteelers]

I aslo learned the Developer was quite flustered after that meeting. Saying how people who don't live close showed to express concern. I guess if you more than 500ft away you should just shut the PieHole! Incredible!!! Also of interest is that the Architectual Firm is owned a Fl State Senator. Sorry I wish I had a name.
Smiling Joe, I'm really against the Club itself. No restriction of membership so as many as 546 might be "given" to homeowners. Are they allowed guest with them too? Which would add to the numbers.
Sure seemed, to me, that the County"s people didn't feel and increase in traffic is all that bad. Guess 100K "donation" for roads sure goes along way for your cause!
I have a Petition for people to sign.IM me if anyone interested in trying to preserve Seagrove. It will be sent to the meeting on the 24th of Jan. Unfortunately I'll be out of town from the Jan.10th till Feb. so I won't be able to attend. But be sure all signatures will be sent to the Commissioners.

Lets fight the good fight.

[Smiling JOe]

I aslo learned the Developer was quite flustered after that meeting. Saying how people who don't live close showed to express concern. I guess if you more than 500ft away you should just shut the PieHole! Incredible!!! Also of interest is that the Architectual Firm is owned a Fl State Senator. Sorry I wish I had a name.
Smiling Joe, I'm really against the Club itself. No restriction of membership so as many as 546 might be "given" to homeowners. Are they allowed guest with them too? Which would add to the numbers.
Sure seemed, to me, that the County"s people didn't feel and increase in traffic is all that bad. Guess 100K "donation" for roads sure goes along way for your cause!
I have a Petition for people to sign.IM me if anyone interested in trying to preserve Seagrove. It will be sent to the meeting on the 24th of Jan. Unfortunately I'll be out of town from the Jan.10th till Feb. so I won't be able to attend. But be sure all signatures will be sent to the Commissioners.

Lets fight the good fight.

I did find a deed from 1950 from Mr and Mrs C.H. McGee, Sr for the Seagrove 3rd Addition in which it states, "none of said lots shall be sold, leased, or rented to, or occupied by any person or persons other than the Caucasian race, but domestic servants of other races actually employed by those residing on said property may reside thereon while thus employed." :eek: Obviously, today's Federal Laws over-ride that.

Nothing else in that deed shows any restrictions for those lots 14 thru 17 in Blk 7. In fact, that property and all the lots in Blk 12, are the only exceptions to the restrictions.

As I understand it, all owners and guests (including rentors) would have use of the Beach Club, so you would be looking at 546 family units or rentor units at any given time. Remember, 8-10 rentors may be staying in one house at a time.

$100,000 is much to liberal. They didn't donate that much. Somewhere around $27,000 was required, and they donated around $55K to the capital fund, bringing that total up to around $80K. I think that might pay for a short turning lane, but not much more, and certainly not enough to balance out the negative impact on traffic.

[Smiling JOe]

Word on the street is that during the meeting yesterday, which you attended, Beechsteelers, the developer's representative told County Engineer, Greg Grahamn, that he could get him lot #5. :shock: I am sure it was harmless humor ;-), but wouldn't you love to have that on tape?

[KATO]

here is your senator....

He owns the design firm doing the Beach Club.....

Charles W. Clary III, FAIA, is a founding Principal for DAG Architects Inc.,
and has over twenty-five years experience in architectural design and
project management. Charlie graduated from Auburn University with a Bachelor
of Architecture in 1977 and a Bachelor of Environmental Design in 1976. He
has been registered in the State of Florida since 1983. Charlie was born and
raised in Okaloosa County and now lives in Destin with his wife. He is
intimately familiar with Walton County and Northwest Florida. He was elected
to the Florida Senate in 1996 and was reelected in 2000 and 2002.
The American Institute of Architects has recognized Charlie's contribution
to architecture and public service first as a City Council member for the
City of Destin and then as a State Senator by his elevation to Fellowship of
the Institute in 2000. As one of 102 Fellows in the State of Florida, he has
been admitted to the leadership of the profession in this state. He also
received a Component Excellence Award from the Institute in 1999.
The Florida Association of the American Institute of Architects presented
him with their President’s Award in 1997 and honored him again in 2001 with
the "Charles W. Clary Service Award" for his advancement of the cause of
good design and planning and his contribution to the dignity and value of
the architectural profession as Florida’s first architect to serve as a
State Senator.
Representative Projects include the following:
Seaside Modica Market and Conference Center - Charlie served as a
participating member of DAG’s project team which collaborated with Deborah
Berke, Architect, of New York to produce this popular landmark of the
Seaside community.
School District of Okaloosa County – Charlie served as Principal in Charge
of over seventy educational facilities for the Okaloosa School System. It
was his service to this school district which established the firm’s
reputation in schoolwork and allowed it to expand into neighboring counties.
Escambia, Bay, and Leon County School Districts – while Charlie's public
service now limits his involvement in education projects, he has assumed the
role of team critic, thereby utilizing his considerable experience in school
projects and challenging the younger members of the firm to continue to seek
excellence in their work.
Community Colleges – Charlie continues to provide leadership in
architectural and engineering work with Okaloosa-Walton, Gulf Coast and
Tallahassee community colleges. As the senior architect for educational
work, his experience and counsel continue to allow DAG Architects to improve
their ability to provide services in this important area of architecture.

Charles W. Clary III, FAIA, is a founding Principal for DAG Architects Inc., and has over twenty-five years experience in architectural design and project management. Charlie graduated from Auburn University with a Bachelor of Architecture in 1977 and a Bachelor of Environmental Design in 1976. He has been registered in the State of Florida since 1983. Charlie was born and raised in Okaloosa County and now lives in Destin with his wife. He is intimately familiar with Walton County and Northwest Florida. He was elected to the Florida Senate in 1996 and was reelected in 2000 and 2002.
The American Institute of Architects has recognized Charlie's contribution to architecture and public service first as a City Council member for the City of Destin and then as a State Senator by his elevation to Fellowship of the Institute in 2000. As one of 102 Fellows in the State of Florida, he has been admitted to the leadership of the profession in this state. He also received a Component Excellence Award from the Institute in 1999.
The Florida Association of the American Institute of Architects presented him with their President’s Award in 1997 and honored him again in 2001 with the “Charles W. Clary Service Award” for his advancement of the cause of good design and planning and his contribution to the dignity and value of the architectural profession as Florida’s first architect to serve as a State Senator.
Representative Projects include the following:
Seaside Modica Market and Conference Center - Charlie served as a participating member of DAG’s project team which collaborated with Deborah Berke, Architect, of New York to produce this popular landmark of the Seaside community.
School District of Okaloosa County – Charlie served as Principal in Charge of over seventy educational facilities for the Okaloosa School System. It was his service to this school district which established the firm’s reputation in schoolwork and allowed it to expand into neighboring counties.
Escambia, Bay, and Leon County School Districts – while Charlie's public service now limits his involvement in education projects, he has assumed the role of team critic, thereby utilizing his considerable experience in school projects and challenging the younger members of the firm to continue to seek excellence in their work.
Community Colleges – Charlie continues to provide leadership in architectural and engineering work with Okaloosa-Walton, Gulf Coast and Tallahassee community colleges. As the senior architect for educational work, his experience and counsel continue to allow DAG Architects to improve their ability to provide services in this important area of architecture.

[Smiling JOe]

here is your senator....

He owns the design firm doing the Beach Club.....

Charles W. Clary III, FAIA, ...http://www.dagarchitects.com/bios/databaseimageservice.axd?imageid=-7507047065139608251&thumbnail=False&bgr=58&bgg=62&bgb=66
I hear that he was at the meeting on Thursday, and taking notes.

Mr Clary is a former state senator, but I guess, once a politician, always a politician.

[Smiling JOe]

The new and improved Private Beach Club/Accesses at the Seagrove Villas:




http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/FOT/FFPOFP38.jpg

http://www.patrick-kaufhold.de/crowdedbeach2.jpg

http://www.edinphoto.org.uk/0_a_o/0_around_edinburgh_-_portobello_crowded_beach_-_evening_news.jpg

http://images.travelpost.com/EU/Ukraine/Donetsk/Yalta/%5CYalta_32893_0_12302005_1712310508_500.jpg

http://theseoultimes.com/ST/photo_gallery/Photo_News/images/large/20050725-00200.jpg

Looks more like a concert lawn to me. :idontno: Can you imagine the parking lot? :bang:


Did someone from Montgomery St ask the representative from NatureWalk to get the max capacity number for the beach? :floor:

Developer: "No problem. I think if we max out at no more than 2500 people, they should all fit on the beach very nicely. It will be in the Summer, so they will be warm and cozy.":floor:

[John R]

those above look like atlantic city, somewhere else in jersey, two from europe, and the last one from asia. all looking quite harmonious. hey, if they can do it, surely we can. and you're right smiling joe, where are all thos people parking? maybe those are all robert davis inspired communities, and they all rode their bikes to the beach, while staying for $1000/wk.

[BeachSteelers]

S. Joe,I remember the developer offering up lot 5 to Mr. Graham. Would love if it was on tape but you and I heard it. Truely shows how they plan on throwing their weight around. Bribe,Lie and Misrepresent is a developers best friend. I thought his cross armed body language during questioning really spoke volumes about his feeling about listening to the communities concerns. IM me if anyone wants to signour petition against the beachclub.

[Smiling JOe]

While on the top of NatureWalk Beach Club, doesn't their seawall sit on public property, too? I have no evidence of such, but I was told by a representative of NatureWalk, that it does indeed sit on County property, but it wasn't NatureWalk's problem since it was done prior to their purchase. My understanding is that if they didn't ask the question via something like a property disclosure statement as a part of the transaction, they (NatureWalk), may be liable. If they did ask and were not told about it, they may not be liable. If they did ask and were told, again, they may be liable.

Just thought I would stir the puddin' with some new information.

[BMBWalker]

those above look like atlantic city, somewhere else in jersey, two from europe, and the last one from asia. all looking quite harmonious. hey, if they can do it, surely we can. and you're right smiling joe, where are all thos people parking? maybe those are all robert davis inspired communities, and they all rode their bikes to the beach, while staying for $1000/wk.

JR...watch out, your financial envy is showing!!!

[Mermaid]

Just as a side note, Cassine Station--condos and ground level mixed use--was also designed by DAG Architects.

[BeachSteelers]

Maybe rename the developement NatureShuttle.

[AAbsolute]

Best I can see KATO hasn't been concerned with anything in Sowal since this issue. I don't remember seeing much opposition to the Watersound Beach Club that has no membership limits that I know of and serves 5 times as many potential member opportunities as of today.

Serious question: Was this about public policy of potential overcrowding of Walton County beaches or was this specific to only this project?

[sowalgayboi]

For one it's a non-issue as Nature Walk is now on the list of abandoned but not forgotten.

Secondly the WaterSound Beach Club was not smack dab in the middle of one of the most congested areas of 30A. I would assume that this person lived or owned property very close to this proposed beach club and was freaking out about having to share a beach with 2500+ people. I've been on the beach in that area and I can't imagine how horrible that would be. Saying it would be like SanDestin is an understatement. Just the trash left by that many people would be disgusting.

Although I am speaking of my own opinion and not that of the OP.

[Smiling JOe]

My opposition was because they were trying to break the Walton County Land-use Code (LUC) with this development. Also, because they were trying to dump 600 + guests and owners into an otherwise low density residential neighborhood. Seagrove Motel property is zoned for only four homes, but the current use is only a non-conforming use. According to LUC, if the improved structures on the property are destroyed by more than 50% in value, for whatever reason, and by whatever means, natural or man-made, the use will revert back to the orginal use of one single family home per lot of record (there are only four lots on that property). The developer's plans appear that they would destroy all of the buildings, and then rebuild, thereby not being able to have the non-conforming use of multi-family/commercial, according to WalCo LUC.

[AAbsolute]

Is there a Public Policy on where to provide access for the eventual masses who are not so fortunate as to live in a gulf front neighborhood?

[Smiling JOe]

I think the TDC has some guidelines on acquiring public accesses, but not "policy." Eventually, we will need more parking at these regional accesses, but that discussion should probably be started on a new thread.

[beachmouse]

One thing I've noticed is that a lot of people seem to totally forget about the state parks along or close to 30-A. Yes, they're pay beaches, but if you go there a lot, the annual pass is useable statewide and a very good value, IMO. Topsail Hill is huge, and I don't think I've ever seen more than about ten vehicles in the west parking lot off of 98. Same goes for Deer Lake, which is reportedly a bit more, um, family-friendly, since St. Joe started to develop the area east of there that used to be the nude beach. Have only been to Camp Helen once or twice, but it seems similarly underutilized.

[scooterbug44]

Is there anyone who has actually had trouble* finding a way to access the beach? :idontno:

I know that a couple of the larger/more utilized accesses sometimes have folks parking along the road on peak days, but in general I've never heard of an actual problem.

*Trouble does not include having to walk several hundred feet OR issues because you used a private access or non-public parking space to access the beach.

[John R]

what is the reasoning for reviving this thread 22 mos later to ask about a long gone poster?

[AAbsolute]

I think the TDC has some guidelines on acquiring public accesses, but not "policy." Eventually, we will need more parking at these regional accesses, but that discussion should probably be started on a new thread.

The opposition to this particular DO seems to smack of hipocrisy. I'm not looking for an argument, but probably diserve it if I get one on this. I know hypocrisy comes across as a bad word. I don't know the Developer of the parcel except that I think his firm hosted Mayor Giuliani at the function we attended.

Does anyone responding to this thread know how many folks from Draper Lake or Forrest Lakes or Seacrest Beach or Watersound North or Watercolor Phase IV or Treetps etc, etc. etc. have deeded access to the Beach and use only small access easements or outparcels.

[AAbsolute]

what is the reasoning for reviving this thread 22 mos later to ask about a long gone poster?

I believe time usually makes things a lot more clear and can tell "The rest of the story"

[Chip and Dale]

What is the status of Naturewalk CDD? If the developer doesn't pay the assessments, but still technically controls the CDD, where does that leave things? At some point, the bondholders are going to get a little miffed.

[tsutcli]

For one it's a non-issue as Nature Walk is now on the list of abandoned but not forgotten.

Secondly the WaterSound Beach Club was not smack dab in the middle of one of the most congested areas of 30A. I would assume that this person lived or owned property very close to this proposed beach club and was freaking out about having to share a beach with 2500+ people. I've been on the beach in that area and I can't imagine how horrible that would be. Saying it would be like SanDestin is an understatement. Just the trash left by that many people would be disgusting.

Although I am speaking of my own opinion and not that of the OP.
..and don't forget Hotel Veridian planned for that same congested intersection!!!!! What a mess it would be, more like Destin in high season even in off season.

[Miss Kitty]

Perhaps Nature Walk coud now become a nature walk with paved streets? Bad idea from the conception, IMO.

[AAbsolute]

I like the bridge at the entry. Maybe vacant lots would be 85,000 today.

[Smiling JOe]

All of the sales agents for Nature Walk also liked the bridge. A visitor might believe the bridge was the best thing since Wonder Bread.

[Miss Kitty]

All of the sales agents for Nature Walk also liked the bridge. A visitor might believe the bridge was the best thing since Wonder Bread.

:lolabove:...I took that tour with Mermy. The Bridge, The Bridge, The Bridge to Nowhere!

[AAbsolute]

Are there homes built back there or is that Watercolor?

[DuneLaker]

I think there were a few homes built, don't know what state they were left in. Nature Walk also left a road that could be connected to 30A to ease some of the congestion from the 30A, 395 intersection. :blush:sj

[sowalgayboi]

Perhaps Nature Walk coud now become a nature walk with paved streets? Bad idea from the conception, IMO.

My understanding is that it already is. Hopefully local teenagers won't figure out how to get in or it'll be blighted real soon. I'm sure anyone who owns in WC IV is thrilled to have this right behind them.