I know, that's what's confusing to me. If there's a three day music festival, do people create huge encampments, then leave them to go back home at night and assume that it will be untouched? Would you set up a ladder in a prime spot for a Mardi Gras parade and expect it to be there the next day? Why is the beach different?

I think the aggrevation comes not from stuff left overnight, but stuff left all week, and stuff abandoned completely. It's trash, plain and simple. Yeah, it's a pain to haul it in and out, but I see people doing it every day.

You can leave those things out on your own property anytime you choose. Geeze Louise
Posted via Mobile Device

Shot in the dark, might she also be Chairperson of my HOA in Houston??? JK

So these things are on private property, and were left by the property owner? Hard to tell, isn't it? It would be different if we were actually able to tell what was private property and what it not. We can't though, even with legions of attorneys on both sides, it seems.

Even so.....I think if I set up a tent for my kids with chairs and crap on the front lawn, the neighbors might think it was a little tacky after three or four days.

I think this situation just calls for a little neighborliness. And no, I don't think slicing the stuff up is neighborly.

There is nothing illegal about being on the beach at night. I have walked in the morning and passed by people sleeping on their beach towel. During nesting season, it is recommended to not have bright lights as they will blind a turtle for awhile and should a nest hatch, the turtles naturally crawl toward light which is supposed to be the horizon and therfore the ocean. This is why some have come up with the red light covers as it is a part of the light spectrum that turtles apparently don't see and yet it gives people lighting to be able to see where they are going.

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Anthony

Every new walker walks a day or so with an area coordinator to cover everything from education to what to look for to what to do or not to do. My orientation I recall being told not to pick up anything, not even garbage. "Just focus on convering your assigned area as quickly and as transparent as possible"
I choose (chose) to pick up garbage when I walk because I was there anyway and maybe I could make the beach a little cleaner when everyone else woke up and hit the beach.

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Anthony

Thank you Ash! That makes perfect sense. Sometimes people get badge happy and act out on their own and sometimes it reflects back on the very thing they were to protect! No pun intended. She acted on her own by doing what she done. I always say "Call the Authorities first" if you take an action you can and in this case will be held accountable. Different story had a turtle been entangled or hung up on anything she tore up. But I do not think this was the case! When I move there I will be glad to join in and become part of this. Quick question.... Do they issue semi machine guns and explosives? Sorry had to... Reminded me of the old Police Academy Movie

That's not unlimited. An unit of government can legally say that you can't have junk (inoperable and no license plate) cars visible from the road, and may further restrict the type of working vehicles that you're allowed to have in the driveway or be otherwsie visible from the street.

If you ever want to see just how much the government can dictate land use, check out the building code for Coral Gables and see what you've got to go through if you want to repaint your home in a color that has not yet been approved by the City Beautiful for general use.

I decided to take a look around 9am this morning, on the beach near where this particular incident supposedly took place. It was a disaster -- plenty of abandoned tents, tent frames, overturned tents, overturned tent frames, piles of empty chairs, coolers etc. It looked aweful. By the time I got to the beach, there were plenty of people on the beach, but no one at these sites I mentioned. Looked like a disaster zone. I may do some relocation in the morning if I am nearby. Surely an overturned tent frame without a canvas isn't something that anyone could claim to be using, and certainly it provides a hazard to people walking on the beach.

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"Originally Posted by Interested Girl
You can leave those things out on your own property anytime you choose. Geeze Louise"

You make that sound like a universal statement. It is inaccurate. Owning property doesn't come with unlimited rights. If you think that you can leave junk cars on blocks in your driveway, many local governments in the State of FL and other states, will fine you and haul off your clunkers, and CHARGE you for storage. Subdivsions also often have written covenants not allowing property owners to leave crap in the yards.

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Such a ray of sunshine you are. I am so glad I am NOT your neighbor.

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I know I don't get there often enough, but God knows I surely try, It's a magic kind of medicine that no doctor could prescribe!

Where in my post did I imply or state anything about a right to leave junked cars or clunkers on my property. I made a statement about lawn chairs.

Yes covenants sometimes restrict useage. In that case I was made aware of those restrictions prior to purchase. in any case restrictions within a subdivision are not enforced other than through some legal action by another owner or through the HOA and not through some "Whack-A-Doodle" vigilante or certain people stumbling around in the dark on private property.

Posted via Mobile Device

Oh come on, wrobert. My wife and I "turtle watched" one year at Topsail. NO ONE GETS PAID, to the best of my knowledge. I know we certainly didn't nor did we expect to. wrobert, I have the deepest respect for you but you obviously know nothing about the beach situation in Walton County so, with all due respect, may I suggest you keep informing us on things you DO know about.

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Speak out freely...Hold to the truth...Question boldly.

Your anger may be off but you turned mine on! This thread has nothing to do with party politics. If you want to diss wrobert for his avatar, create another thread to do it in. Many defended your right to say and do whatever you want by putting in many years to "kill anything for money". We didn't like it but because we had taken an oath to do so, we did it. Now, my ANGER OFF.

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Speak out freely...Hold to the truth...Question boldly.

I have never posted on this site, but visit it frequently and have pretty much had the divine blessing of growing up in the area. My parents owned a beach house in old Seacrest starting in 1984. I have seen the entire 30A grow and blossom with me in life.

Although this event has brought many issues and angles about what we are ALL passionate about - our beaches - I feel that many of you are missing the fact that our culture as a whole has gotten extremely lazy. I think I read one person that mentioned this laziness . . . in all 3 pages of posts.

Timing is everything, this has been building for the past five years. If we as a community along with our law enforcement officials don't put a stop to the carelessness and disregard of the beach and nature here, then this will be a never ending lose-lose battle. Nobody is winning right now - not us, not the turtles, not the animals in our habitat and apparently not the tourists who feel they have been victimized.

I am not sure what exactly happened with Ms. Mary, but I too have had my moments of disappointment on the beach and although not part of the Turtle Watch I too pick up trash and fill in holes on my almost daily walks along the beach. I have had the opportunity to explain these actions to tourists and most are understanding and happy to help after they know. BUT, our culture has gotten lazy and unless they have a good reason to do something, most people won't do it anymore. The old fashioned values have been lost and the "me now" generation.

I have to agree with Gigdet on the fact that if we take all of this passion for the beach (and that is the 1 and only thing we all have in common on this thread) and use it to come up with solutions, then we would really be doing something good for the community. Now, how in the world could we actually have it enforced????

And I really resent this comment, particularly since it is coming from someone I believe is wanting to claim old 98 a "scenic highway".

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Speak out freely...Hold to the truth...Question boldly.

Thank you for including me in your post! Andy WE defended the right to have an OPINION as well, and that was mine.. And in turn you gave yours, Now... ain't FREEDOM just wonderful!

Oh and the Bush Family, IMO (That means in MY OPINION) were responsible for many that died. But as you said thats another thread. Go start one for the Bush LOVERS and I will meet you there!

Come have a glass of wine with us tonight, We will be at Angelina's Around 6pm if they are still open. Oh and if we finish here tonight, we should but ya never know.

Andy - I agree - sometimes we group people together and assign a phrase or cute remark - It is not right and I appologize to all for my lack of judgement. Nothing added to the discussion by that post and I can only say I am sorry.

Actually I think declaring old 98 a "scenic highway" is a joke. Nothing scenic about the back side of high rise after high rise. Do I think the area has been neglected in the past - yes, but scenic "Give Me A Break".

I respect your opinion and we agree on more things than not.

You stand as a man and express your viewpoint and I respect that.

...and I suppose no one who purchased property, deeded to the water, did their due diligence and noticed that the public was using the beach to sunbath and play. That is something you should have observed, without having to need it disclosed.

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Sorry can't make it tonight as my daughter is here from Oklahoma. But I'll take a raincheck. And, yes, freedom is wonderful! And, no, I don't agree with you about the Bush family any more than you would probably agree with me about the Johnson family.

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Speak out freely...Hold to the truth...Question boldly.

I believe somebody gets paid for administrative work, also there is a coordinator and an assistant, and anybody that walks at least three times a week has the opportunity to get paid.

When we bought our property you could shoot a cannon east and west and never strike a soul. Your statement does not apply to me and even if it did just because someone was there does not mean they had the legal right to be there.

This photo was taken near the "incident" about 9am this morning:




...and nearby signs like this are posted:

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If you buy a piece of property in the woods, and you go to the property and see many people on the property, choose to buy it anyway, that is your problem. No different here. Sure, people who bought when no one else vacationed here, may have an excuse, though not legitimate in my opinion, but they wouldn't be in the majority in Walton County. I bet less than ten deeded Gulf Front owners have ever complained about the TDC trucks coming onto the beach to remove the garbage, even if the owners bought in 1952.

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Thank you for the kind words and no appology is needed. We all do that at times on this board (group people together) and while it may be wrong, in the heat of the moment, it is done by all of us. Someone once suggested you create a response to a post, read it, and then delete it. If you come back to it and post it, then it is really your opinion. I am far too responsive for that. So I guess I'll continue to make some posts that upon reflection I shouldn't have made. But then, that is part of the fun in participating on this board.

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Speak out freely...Hold to the truth...Question boldly.

And you would be wrong and loose the bet.
Posted via Mobile Device

Whether you agree or disagree Mary has probably done more for the "get the crap" off the beach cause then anyone has done in a long time!

I was down in Seagrove last night and was appalled at all the crap left on the beach.

I truly feel if people were forced to bring there junk in at night they may think twice about what they bring down there. Imagine having fun at the beach without all that plastic junk....

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"You are your choices"
www.lifeonshore.com
http://bobbyjblog.com

I think this issue rates a photo expose' by the fabulous Kurt--especially the garbage heap left behind on the morning of the 5th of July before we haul our arses out of bed at 0'dark-thirty to clean up the mess. Me thinks that visitors may be under the impression that our beach cleans itself--or that the county has a "Disney-like" squad of cleaners who leap out from behind the dunes.

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But hey...Top Ramen tastes a whole lot better when you eat it off of a Granite Countertop. (Mr & Mrs Too Much Homebuyer)

Florida State Flower

A shout out to Katherine,
Hope you are reading this! We love you!

I really wish that one of the newspapers would do an expose..with full color photographs...showing just what is happening to the beaches--it would probably be picked up by AP and Facebook and Twitter and we would make the International News...to think that we have such a treasure in our natural habitat and we are destroying it...by neglect, laziness, and lack of government regulations that are appropriate or elected officials who have the courage to enforce the rules they've written.

It is disgraceful IMO.

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"If people cannot write well, they cannot think well, and if they cannot think well, others will do their thinking for them."
George Orwell

...the TDC would NEVER let that happen...Hey! Maybe we can blackmail them by threatening to send the portfolio of photos to the St Pete Times (local papers wouldn't post the story) unless they get off their collective arses and do some serious cracking down on the overnight and abandoned beach crap and scrap.

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But hey...Top Ramen tastes a whole lot better when you eat it off of a Granite Countertop. (Mr & Mrs Too Much Homebuyer)

Florida State Flower

That reminded me of my dad, who used to say the same thing about Hwy 98 in wintertime, particularly in front of the store we owned 30-40 years ago.

However, I also had relatives who owned gulffront property, and while they didn't appreciate people traipsing through their sandspur-filled back yard and using their private stairs, people walking across "their" sand from east to west didn't bother them in the least. I honestly don't think it ever occurred to them to consider the beach itself as their private property. Far as they were concerned, owning to the MHWL just meant someone couldn't build between them and the beach. It was a kinder, simpler time, and I miss the heck out of it.

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I agree completely...

sounds good to me.

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"If people cannot write well, they cannot think well, and if they cannot think well, others will do their thinking for them."
George Orwell

Hadn't looked at this thread since yesterday. I applaud all of these posters for their gutsy posts! SHELLY and gw...get on it!

SJ...once again, you have provided the pic that says it all. I snapped a little when I saw it. I am trying to think jsut how I would react if I had driven 12 hours in the car for our once a year vacation and walked down to the beach to see this junkpile....I probably would have cried. I can't imagine I would pay to return to such a mess the next year. Does the TDC really believe this is good PR????

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The mind is like a parachute, it works best when it is open.

Disapproving of this lady's actions doesn't mean you believe leaving junk on the beach is ok. It just means you know there is a more rational, mature and LEGAL way of handling the situation!

Do tell us what that might be.

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"You are your choices"
www.lifeonshore.com
http://bobbyjblog.com

This is a disgrace. Since the Ordinance went into effect, this hasn't happened to this degree at Blue Mountain, but we have lifeguard stands, too. They do a great job watching the waters AND the beaches for violators.

Hope the County gets this revised soon so they can resume their duties.

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Who is Lynnie?? ~~~~~~~Signed, All Y'all

Tourists were removed from the beach????? Sounds like there's a good story there!!!

Thanks for clarifying this for me! I knew about the light hazard, but I had heard from some posters or notices in the past that humans shouldn't be (or sleep) on the beach at night because we are therefore a potential obstruction to a potential sea turtle who may be needing to lay potential eggs. Common sense would tell me to watch out for her and move out of her way, so I am glad we are not legislatively forbidden from traversing the beach at night.

wrobert, I think you would find that you and I probably agree on more political issues than we disagree on. The obvious exceptions appear to be overnight beach belongings and misplaced high rises. However, I always thought you were an anti-tax person, yet now you are wanting people to be taxed for designated t-shirts? Isn't that a bit burdensome and, well, over-taxing?

Couldn't you:

A. Contact authorities
B. Confront owners of beach crap
C. Complain to the Condo mangers (I know, this probably won't work)
D. Move it WITHOUT destroying it.

Btw, I like your quote...

I thought people couldn't sleep on the beaches because you can't camp on the beach, not because of turtles. The sheriff has rousted me off the beach in the wee hours and turtles were never mentioned - just no sleeping.

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The enemy is ignorance.

You need a picture that can convey the gravity of the situation without all the captions. Unless I know that stuff has been there a while, it's difficult to be outraged, I'm just being honest. It certainly doesn't look like a major eyesore. For me at least it doesn't have the impact.

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FOX NEWS-WE ALTER REALITY, YOU GET SOLD A PRECONCEIVED NARRATIVE

I'm not familiar with the laws in Walton County, but I know it's been illegal in Gulf Shores for a while. I remember an incident when I was probably aroudn 10 years old and a sketchy guy was arguing with the lifeguards and beach patrol about the fact that he WAS gonna sleep on the beach that night regardless of what "the law" said. Some kids slept on the beach one night this past July in the vacant parcel on Eastern Lake Road where Leeward Condos used to be. They were in a white Envoy or something like that parked up near the road but slept on the beach near the MHWM. They (illegally) used the boardwalk shower at Eastern Shores.

How are the abandoned, upside-down tent skeletons not an eyesore?

It's a complex issue involving militant property rights issues, a volleyball net, a misguided strategem for running for political office, %^($* lawyers, sock puppets, cranial-rectal inversion, and a complete disregrad for common sense, endangered species, the environment, and your fellow human beings.

Most think they are eyesores and pick up afterthemselves, but there are always those rotten apples...............

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The enemy is ignorance.

Thank you OLL! Miss Sallie Williams would be proud! For those of you who just got here, Miss Sallie was a realtor who "developed" Seacrest in the early 1970's. She was passionate about the beach, and protecting the natural beauty that we enjoy. Pick up the trash, fill in the holes, explain things to our visitors, don't look to government or someone else to do it all -- and enjoy the beach once again. Life could be so good.

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Leave early and you won't be stuck in traffic.

I guess we all have different pet peeves. I honestly think the area looks pretty good but obviously I've seen better. I myself think vehicles on the beach are an eyesore but that's just me. The point is we all perceive things differently. [Edit]honestly, I cant' make out half the stuff in that picture. The only thing that stands out is the tent frame which could possibly be a tent in the process of being set up for all I know. I'm just saying that a good picture says 1000 words. In this case you need 1000 words to explain the picture. Lose the captions and take some closeups if you're trying to persuade is all I'm saying.

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FOX NEWS-WE ALTER REALITY, YOU GET SOLD A PRECONCEIVED NARRATIVE

It's a matter of perspective--a backed up, fully-loaded toilet in the eyes of a plumber is Shangri-La.

.

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But hey...Top Ramen tastes a whole lot better when you eat it off of a Granite Countertop. (Mr & Mrs Too Much Homebuyer)

Florida State Flower

Maybe it's just me...but picking up trash, filling in holes and hauling old chairs and broken tents to the trash can everytime I go for a stroll on the beach isn't my idea of "enjoyable."

.

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But hey...Top Ramen tastes a whole lot better when you eat it off of a Granite Countertop. (Mr & Mrs Too Much Homebuyer)

Florida State Flower

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The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein

Nuff Said!

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God is Great, God is Good!

They were full tents prior to slasher turtle lady.

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FOX NEWS-WE ALTER REALITY, YOU GET SOLD A PRECONCEIVED NARRATIVE

does anyone know what this woman was charged with? If it was in the article, I did not see the actual charge stated...

If the "stuff" had been abandoned on the beach, then what law did she break?

Are the beaches in that area claimed as "private"? If not, can there be private property on a public beach?

Did the ordinance apply to the "stuff"? Does anyone know whose "stuff" it was?
Did they have the responsibililty to remove it overnight?

How did there happen to be a video? Did someone plan to photograph the incident, or did it just "happen".....This whole incident sounds a little strange to me, so I am just interested to know what specific charge was filed; and what law was broken according to authorities?


Anybody know?

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"If people cannot write well, they cannot think well, and if they cannot think well, others will do their thinking for them."
George Orwell

Maybe this is part of the problem, but that's just me.

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The mind is like a parachute, it works best when it is open.

Post 197 quotes an article from Kimberly White of the NWF Daily News stating it was two counts of criminal mischief. I wonder if there will be anything in the Walton Sun tomorrow that has more information? They haven't posted anything online yet.

yeah, I was wondering the same thing. I saw the item you mention; just wondering which law was broken resulting in "criminal mischief"...if the property is abandoned iaw the Walton Co. Ordinance...

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"If people cannot write well, they cannot think well, and if they cannot think well, others will do their thinking for them."
George Orwell

Why not mount our own grassroots facebook/twitter/blog.etc campaign and get viral about it?

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Susan Horn
www.artisan-builds.com

So if someone abandons their car on the side of the road I can stop and puncture the tires and bust out the windows?

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I don't know. What I am asking is:

What law governs abandoned stuff?

What law was broken?

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"If people cannot write well, they cannot think well, and if they cannot think well, others will do their thinking for them."
George Orwell

Abandoned or not, I do not believe you can legally destroy something that is not yours. The Florida theft statute is pretty comprehensive, basically taking of possession of anything that you know not to belong to you is theft.

And if destroying abandoned stuff was for the good of the turtles, how did it help to destroy it and leave the stuff in place, the turtle knows no difference between a float with air and a flat float.

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Wrobert, I am simply asking what specific statute, ordinance, or whatever, the woman was charged under--I am asking for specific information if anyone knows...that's all.

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"If people cannot write well, they cannot think well, and if they cannot think well, others will do their thinking for them."
George Orwell

Well the fact is that a crowded beach on a busy day with lots of people and lots of stuff doesn't look all that great, even when all laws are being obeyed. That's just my opinion, but what are you going to do?

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FOX NEWS-WE ALTER REALITY, YOU GET SOLD A PRECONCEIVED NARRATIVE

Like a turtle habitat or public property?

While what she did was probably not done in the best judgment, she was making the point that the beach and its view is not something that tourists or residents have the right to destroy on a nightly basis. I can tell the difference between a flat float and one with air, and they have no business on the beach overnight.

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JD,
All very good points and I think that is why Mary snapped. All of this has been done over and over again. But, again keep in mind we all do not have the full story. I feel that way surfing sometimes in double red flags (in which I have a surfboard attached to my leg). You can tell people on vacation to stay out of the water and they just give you a blank stare. That all changes when they are drowning and you paddle up to them to save them. Now, I have their full attention. They now listen to every word I tell them. Something radical has to happen to wake them up. Mary made a radical move and has peoples attention. Right or wrong.

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"You are your choices"
www.lifeonshore.com
http://bobbyjblog.com

806.13 Criminal mischief; penalties; penalty for minor.--
(1)(a) A person commits the offense of criminal mischief if he or she willfully and maliciously injures or damages by any means any real or personal property belonging to another, including, but not limited to, the placement of graffiti thereon or other acts of vandalism thereto.
(b)1. If the damage to such property is $200 or less, it is a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
2. If the damage to such property is greater than $200 but less than $1,000, it is a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
3. If the damage is $1,000 or greater, or if there is interruption or impairment of a business operation or public communication, transportation, supply of water, gas or power, or other public service which costs $1,000 or more in labor and supplies to restore, it is a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
4. If the person has one or more previous convictions for violating this subsection, the offense under subparagraph 1. or subparagraph 2. for which the person is charged shall be reclassified as a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(2) Any person who willfully and maliciously defaces, injures, or damages by any means any church, synagogue, mosque, or other place of worship, or any religious article contained therein, commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084, if the damage to the property is greater than $200.
(3) Whoever, without the consent of the owner thereof, willfully destroys or substantially damages any public telephone, or telephone cables, wires, fixtures, antennas, amplifiers, or any other apparatus, equipment, or appliances, which destruction or damage renders a public telephone inoperative or which opens the body of a public telephone, commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084; provided, however, that a conspicuous notice of the provisions of this subsection and the penalties provided is posted on or near the destroyed or damaged instrument and visible to the public at the time of the commission of the offense.
(4) Any person who willfully and maliciously defaces, injures, or damages by any means a sexually violent predator detention or commitment facility, as defined in part V of chapter 394, or any property contained therein, commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084, if the damage to property is greater than $200.
(5)(a) The amounts of value of damage to property owned by separate persons, if the property was damaged during one scheme or course of conduct, may be aggregated in determining the grade of the offense under this section.
(b) Any person who violates this section may, in addition to any other criminal penalty, be required to pay for the damages caused by such offense.
(6)(a) Any person who violates this section when the violation is related to the placement of graffiti shall, in addition to any other criminal penalty, be required to pay a fine of:
1. Not less than $250 for a first conviction.
2. Not less than $500 for a second conviction.
3. Not less than $1,000 for a third or subsequent conviction.
(b) Any person convicted under this section when the offense is related to the placement of graffiti shall, in addition to any other criminal penalty, be required to perform at least 40 hours of community service and, if possible, perform at least 100 hours of community service that involves the removal of graffiti.
(c) If a minor commits a delinquent act prohibited under paragraph (a), the parent or legal guardian of the minor is liable along with the minor for payment of the fine. The court may decline to order a person to pay a fine under paragraph (a) if the court finds that the person is indigent and does not have the ability to pay the fine or if the court finds that the person does not have the ability to pay the fine whether or not the person is indigent.
(7) In addition to any other penalty provided by law, if a minor is found to have committed a delinquent act under this section for placing graffiti on any public property or private property, and:
(a) The minor is eligible by reason of age for a driver's license or driving privilege, the court shall direct the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles to revoke or withhold issuance of the minor's driver's license or driving privilege for not more than 1 year.
(b) The minor's driver's license or driving privilege is under suspension or revocation for any reason, the court shall direct the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles to extend the period of suspension or revocation by an additional period of not more than 1 year.
(c) The minor is ineligible by reason of age for a driver's license or driving privilege, the court shall direct the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles to withhold issuance of the minor's driver's license or driving privilege for not more than 1 year after the date on which he or she would otherwise have become eligible.
(8) A minor whose driver's license or driving privilege is revoked, suspended, or withheld under subsection (7) may elect to reduce the period of revocation, suspension, or withholding by performing community service at the rate of 1 day for each hour of community service performed. In addition, if the court determines that due to a family hardship, the minor's driver's license or driving privilege is necessary for employment or medical purposes of the minor or a member of the minor's family, the court shall order the minor to perform community service and reduce the period of revocation, suspension, or withholding at the rate of 1 day for each hour of community service performed. As used in this subsection, the term "community service" means cleaning graffiti from public property.
(9) Because of the difficulty of confronting the blight of graffiti, it is the intent of the Legislature that municipalities and counties not be preempted by state law from establishing ordinances that prohibit the marking of graffiti or other graffiti-related offenses. Furthermore, as related to graffiti, such municipalities and counties are not preempted by state law from establishing higher penalties than those provided by state law and mandatory penalties when state law provides discretionary penalties. Such higher and mandatory penalties include fines that do not exceed the amount specified in ss. 125.69 and 162.21, community service, restitution, and forfeiture. Upon a finding that a juvenile has violated a graffiti-related ordinance, a court acting under chapter 985 may not provide a disposition of the case which is less severe than any mandatory penalty prescribed by municipal or county ordinance for such violation.
History.--s. 27, ch. 74-383; s. 20, ch. 75-298; s. 1, ch. 82-21; s. 1, ch. 86-281; s. 1, ch. 88-273; s. 183, ch. 91-224; s. 1, ch. 95-164; s. 1231, ch. 97-102; s. 1, ch. 98-93; s. 1, ch. 98-415; s. 5, ch. 2001-244; s. 117, ch. 2002-1; s. 1, ch. 2002-163.

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I agree Bobby.

In some cases, it's been called Civil Disobedience.

I do think it is important to remember that we do not have the SPECIFIC INFORMATION about this particular case.

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"If people cannot write well, they cannot think well, and if they cannot think well, others will do their thinking for them."
George Orwell

Are the tourists destroying the habitat? I thought this stuff was just blocking the way for the turtle to get to the habitat. And no you can not destroy public property. And while you can tell the difference, I do not believe a turtle can, I figure an obstruction is just an obstruction to them. That is why I thought that being able to put a tag on something and then leave it on the beach was a pretty dumb law.

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I can think of exceptions to that rule -- garbage. People are constantly taking other's property when they pick up garbage. You may be missing the point that many people leave their crap on the beach, even when they are heading back to where ever they live, thinking that others may be able to use it.

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Okay. Are you saying that you know she was charged under this and that the authorities know that the property she affected "belonged to another" or was it abandoned on the beach for the TDC to pick up?

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"If people cannot write well, they cannot think well, and if they cannot think well, others will do their thinking for them."
George Orwell

The exception may be in that no one would prosecute you. But the law as written use to be pretty explicit. Have not looked at it lately so maybe it has changed.

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Miss Sallie sounds like a person I could respect and a realtor that cared about the area and not just making a sale. Sadly that is not the case with all realtors in the area.

Many wonder why some beach front property owners feel they "own" the beach. Well that is because that is what their realtor sold them. I have personally witnessed someone being told by a realtor that there is no reason to be concerned about others using the beach between their property and the Gulf, and that they don't need to be concerned about leaving their belongings over night on their property. And before anyone says that someone investing that much money should know the local situation, they hired a local "expert" to provide that info.

So maybe part of the problem is not just the tourists.

Littering on the feeder roads to 30A (also Scenic Hwy) carries a fine up to $500 per incident. Why the hell are our beaches not also protected like this? Seems to me that the biggest reason why our roads are designated as "scenic" is because they are the route to some of the prettiest beaches in the world. Leaving your crap on the beach overnight should be considered "littering" and should carry a fine at least as heavy as those issued for littering on the roads getting to the beach, IF NOT GREATER. The only problem with that is enforcement, because no one in their right mind is going to be laying claim to a $99 canopy and three year old plastic chairs with rusty frames, in exchange for a $500 fine. But, at least then, the abandoned property would really be abandoned as no owner is laying claim.

...and for the absent-minded yahoo who happens to leave his Rolex watch in the ice cooler on the beach overnight, he could lay claim to his watch and pay the $500 fine for littering and reclaim his watch.

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I too, have heard one, but only one, Realtor shouting that the owner had full rights to all their property. The only problem with that particular Realtor is that he/she is not an attorney, but sounded as though he/she was giving legal consultation. Property rights are not determined by Realtors.

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Since it was already DISCARDED than it belonged to no one. IMO no law was broken other than maybe if she left it behind and "Littered"

a⋅ban⋅doned

  /əˈbændənd/ Show Spelled [uh-ban-duhnd] Show IPA
–adjective 1.forsaken or deserted: an abandoned building; an abandoned kitten.
2.unrestrained or uncontrolled; uninhibited: She danced with abandoned enthusiasm.
3.utterly lacking in moral restraints; shameless; wicked: an abandoned and dissolute ruler.


Origin:
1350–1400; ME; see abandon1 , -ed 2

—Related forms a⋅ban⋅doned⋅ly, adverb

—Synonyms
1. discarded, rejected. 3. See immoral.

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God is Great, God is Good!

It is all about money.

The only reason that the ordiance to keep the beaches clean is not being enforced is that they are afraid to offend a paying guest that wants to be lazy and leave their crap on the beach overnight.

And years ago it probably was not that big of a problem for two reasons. One fewer people came to the area and people were just generally more responsible and caring about the impact their actions have on the area.

Now you have more visitors and more that simply do not care. Until the county truly begins to care, it is not going to improve. You can educate all you want but those willing to be educated are not the ones causing the problems.

A fine is a great idea on paper but will have no effect without enforcement and therein lies the problem.

Exactly and you realize that and I do too, but the average person buying property is going to trust that local realtor.

Many when looking at a million dollar sale are going to tell the buyer what they want to hear instead of the truth.

Also if you call around and get info from some of the local beachfront associations about renting, they are spreading some untruths also about beach usage and cleanup.

I was specifically told that I could leave my stuff on the beach during my entire stay and it would be fine. Certainly I would not do that, but it was interesting that a local would be promoting this.

And again it comes down to money, the agent was more interested in my renting and less about the beach.

Exactly why this guy has now stopped picking up garbage. I'm going to sit back and watch the beaches go to hell and when the tourists stop coming to the red-neck riveria, then the county will stand up and do what they should have done long ago.
Come to think of it, if the tourists stop coming here, then they won't be bringing tents and chairs and garbage and then the beaches will eventually clean themselves. Hmmmmmm......

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Anthony

This was tried at the local level. Several people gathered photos early in the morning and for several days, they were sent to local officials in an attempt to get their attention to how bad it was getting. Last I heard, the person who was sending in the photos was blocked from being able to send emails to county officials. How's that for a response folks from your elected officials?

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Anthony

Maybe some shutterbugs should flood the TDC with photos documenting the violations with some copies sent to tripadvisor.

http://www.beachesofsouthwalton.com/...Sun_&_Sand.pdf This is false advertising

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Get Outdoors!

I disagree with your premise. Having clean beaches will attract more tourists, and that is the number one thing on the TDC's list -- attracting more tourists. It will take less than one season to educate people, if it is done everyday, without exception, along the entire length of the beach. In my opinion, at first, people will balk, but in the end, they will appreciate the correction.

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Oh I agree, but I not sure those making the decisions are. Because truly if they believed that, why are they not doing it.

Either it is money they don't want to spend to enforce the codes, or money they fear they will lose by offending someone.

Either way it is always about money. I know you can have clean beaches and make money from tourists, I visit too many other beach areas in the country that do not have these problems and see clean beaches and plenty of tourists.

But the TDC is going to have to be convinced of this.

Sorry that you find the words on the photo more distracting than I find all of the crap on the beach. Those are just words. How about you walk down to the beach and see for yourself if you live near South Walton. (I think that everyone should get off their lazy-schtick and go to the beach in the morning, to see with their own eyes. You will be shocked, I'm sure. Photos really don't capture the magnitude of the crap left on the beaches. I can take plenty of close up photos, but posting all of them would lose impact. Go see for yourself.

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The TDC is not the problem. They were enforcing stuff being left on the beaches. It's the Sheriff department and lawyers that put the halt on picking things up. That needs to be clear. The TDC would do their job if they could.

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Anthony

I'm not certain, but I don't think it is the TDC who is responsible for the non-enforcement issue. I believe it is the Interim County Attorney who has contacted the Attorney General's Office for their opinion on the legalities of the County Ordinance. It sounds to me as there is question to the legality of the Ordinance as written, so they are suspending collection of crap on the beach until further notice.

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From an earlier discussion/thread:

County removing articles from beach?

Does anyone else think it's time we hired an actual county attorney?

here4good, I used to think the same thing, but given the history of some of the other County Attorney's, names withheld, maybe attorney, Mike Burke and team isn't so bad. I don't agree with some of the things they do/say, but they do represent the County as needed. Personally, I think it is good practice to make laws which are Constitutional, so if that is in question in this particular Ordinance, I think the Interim County Attorney is doing the right thing -- protecting the County's interest.

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Yep.

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Speak out freely...Hold to the truth...Question boldly.

SJ, I'm not knocking you for captioning the photo, I'm just saying that it's difficult to produce an impact photo. Indeed I'm sure you have to be there. However, you'll never see me up that early. No way no how. That's just me. You morning people are insane. No I am going start walking the beaches, and your message is not lost.

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FOX NEWS-WE ALTER REALITY, YOU GET SOLD A PRECONCEIVED NARRATIVE

I think if you impose a fine, then people are going to be much more likely to leave their stuff. Really how do you catch people leaving stuff on the beach? Do you have people on beach patrol scoping out tourists? If I leave my chair for a while to go for a walk, does that make me a person of interest? I'm just pointing out real problems that need to be addressed.

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FOX NEWS-WE ALTER REALITY, YOU GET SOLD A PRECONCEIVED NARRATIVE

It made a pretty big impact on me.

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I know I don't get there often enough, but God knows I surely try, It's a magic kind of medicine that no doctor could prescribe!

Here's a photo I took near the Draper Lake Outfall just after 6 this morning. Click on the picture and it will take you to a larger image as well as four other pictures also taken this morning on my turtle walk. I didn't know how to dump all 5 photos in here at once.

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Anthony

Dramatic photos, ASH. I can't imagine how much of this would become airborne if we had a nice thunderstorm overnight, and would end up either in the gulf or a quarter-mile away.

I guess when one of these missiles ends up crashing through someone's gulf front patio door it will become an issue.

Well, this just ruined my lunch.

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Just after 6 this morning!!

What kind of moron takes a pool ??

That's like taking sand to the beach.

At any rate, the county will need a lot of trucks when they finally decide to haul off this junk.

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Get Outdoors!

Good point, Mother Nature will ensure that the beach will remain public. Wonder how those gulf front owners *****ing about property rights are liking their view now.

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Get Outdoors!

That is unbelievable.

(The pictures, not the fact that you can't dump 5 photos in here at once )

and disgusting.

Have these people no regard for anyone other that themselves?

Can't believe that if I owned a Gulf Front property I would be happy about seeing this from my porch when I woke up....

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"If people cannot write well, they cannot think well, and if they cannot think well, others will do their thinking for them."
George Orwell