appalach

My apologies if this has been discussed in another thread recently, but my search didn't show anything. With all of the talk lately about infrastructure spending and allocations going to "shovel-ready" projects, I was curious what was the last official statement about when/if any funding would be sought for the new 331 bridge. What "shovel-ready" projects are in the area, and who decides what projects meet that term?

kurt

It is being pushed hard. http://www.waltoncountychamber.com/pdf/Highway_331.pdf
Looking for $480 Million.

More info - NFTCA

appalach

$480,000,000 .

After reading the bridge portion on the walton county chamber link, it sounded to me like a $5,000,000 request was submitted to support additional study of the bridge design and that no state or local funds are available to support a project of this magnitude. If that is right, this doesn't really sound like a "shovel-ready" project (whatever that means) since it still seems to be in the design phase. Actually, I read in one article that "shovel-ready" meant work could begin within 120 days of receiving funding. However, the definition of "work" is also probably open to interpretation.

I live out of state and haven't read local reports about specific possibilities in Florida for the stimulus cash. Does anyone think the viability or timeline of the proposed bridge will be improved by the stimulus bill? If not, does anyone have any ideas of what impact on regional infrastructure might happen because of the stimulus package?

SWGB

The biggest hurdle to cross in getting bridge funding is getting past non-users of the bridge from terming it the "bridge to nowhere". While everyone who lives, works, or vacations here knows and can see or experience the need of a 4 lane bridge those who don't will see this as waste. Throw in the fact that while not vocally opposed, it's almost a guarantee that the Mid-bay Bridge authority is very opposed to this non-revenue generating project unless it can be bonded and then placed under their management. Their are many entities at work with this bridge and time will reveal those that have good, bad, or purely monetary motives.

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NotDeadYet

This is from the WZEP email news:

"
Economic Stimulus Could Mean New Bridge

Is a sister bridge to the Clyde B. Wells Bridge closer than you think. As the economic stimulus package approval is starting to develop, Walton County could see money for the shovel ready $336 million bridge.

Shovel ready is a term meaning a project is ready to begin the design and build. When District 3 Secretary Kelly last visited with the commissioners, he said the second bay bridge is a project they could let out in a matter of days to a company who would design and build the second two lanes. Kelly said the bridge would be a shore to shore bridge after the FDOT looked at using the existing causeway and decided it would take more to shore it up than it would to build without using it.

The second bridge is needed for current traffic and to help empty out the south end of the county in an emergency situation. U.S. 331 is the only north south road out of south Walton. The FDOT currently has the portion south of the bridge under construction as a four lane project. The four lanes would simply empty into the existing two lanes of the bridge, creating bottlenecks. Walton has been seeking a widened U.S. 331 for around 30 years and only now is seeing some sections getting the updates. Walton County is also working with the state on a public private partnership to add additional lanes to the section north of Owl’s Head to Edgewood Circle in Woodlawn.

According to an article in the Pensacola News Journal, Secretary Kelley said at an FDOT teleconference Friday morning that he expects about $100 million in stimulus funding for District 3 counties. How that would be broken up is still being discussed. FDOT spokesman Tommie Speights says this is all preliminary, and once the numbers are out, then they can say how much each county will get.

While the stimulus package has proponents and opponents, many do agree by putting the money into construction jobs, especially updating the country’s aging infrastructure, the economy will see a greater return than when money was sent directly to the taxpayers.

The state of Florida is also looking at how to help the local economy and has plans to move up some projects. These include projects like resurfacing Highway 90, something in the plans, but potentially advanced by the state."

BeachSiO2

I deleted my earlier post outlining why I thought the stimulus monies would not be going toward the bridge expansion after the e-blast from WZEP, but upon reflection, I can't see how the numbers work. In the link posted by Kurt, it states that the overall cost of the project is estimated at $480 million. In the e-blast it says that $100 million would be allocated to all counties in District 3, not each County and the breakdown has yet to be determined. I see two problems with the story.

Even if the bridge project alone can be done as a design build, how can it be done at less than $100 million (when they state it will cost $336M or $480M depending on the source).

Second, how is the County going to get the entire District's allocation. Am I missing something as to the cost of the bridge and a realistic allocation of the District's dollars?

It appears that the e-blast is saying that it meets the criteria of an eligible project due to previous reports by the DOT (however the timeframe and context of those reports are not given) but the dollars still do not appear to be there.

Smiling JOe

dollars are not there, beachsi02. you are correct. However, I think this project will become a user-fee project (aka - toll bridge), which may be able to fund the remainder through bonds.

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appalach

BeachSiO2, I agree with you that at first glance the numbers don't seem to work. For those who support the idea of the new bridge, it would be great to somehow have total funding for the project as a result of the stimulus infusion. However, even if only a smaller sum than actual estimates are allocated to the bridge, maybe it could act as a catalyst to secure other sources of funding. I have no idea what those sources might be . Bake sales? Tolls as SJ said. It was disheartening to read in a prior post that Walton County has been seeking the widening of 331 for 30 years! This stimulus package heavy on infrastructure investment seems like it will truly be a rare opportunity, and I'm looking forward to seeing how it is allocated across the region. The tasks of deciding a priority list for projects and how to spend whatever amount is earmarked for the area don't seem to be enviable ones to me. I can only imagine all of the competing interests in play when trying to figure what are the best projects to fund. Someone probably better have a shovel ready because it will likely get deep in some closed door discussions. I'm sure that some of the money will likely be squandered (ie along the thoughts of not letting the perfect be the enemy..); it seems inevitable for something of this size. Whether or not all of us agree with the magnitude of the stimulus, at this point, I'm just hopeful that whatever portions head to Walton County and the surrounding region are used judiciously.

Smiling JOe

the NWFTCA has already prioritized a list regarding roads for NW FL. It's on a chart on their website, along with costs, but note that it isn't necessarily linked to the money which may come to this area from the Not-So Stimulating Act.

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BeachSiO2

Sorry if I appear to be Debby Downer, but a firm I work with is currently working with a number of public clients in regards to the stimulus funding. The problems we are seeing is that a number of projects either don't meet the strictly defined criteria or do and yet funding still doesn't exist so we are having to temper expectations. I for one believe that the bridge definitely needs to be built.

Here is the current status of the relevant portion of the bill. First, there is a total of $29 Billion for the US that will be allocated to the categories of projects in which this bridge would fall. The two categories are:

1. National Surface Transportation System (competitive "grant" program) that will be allocated by the Federal DOT and thus NOT SUBJECT to the state ranking system (1.5 Billion). There are requirements but this money is to be split evenly between urban and rural areas. Applications due in 180 days, project finished in 3 years.
2. Federal Highway Administration- These funds will be routed through state DOT's and subject to their "lists" (27.5 Billion). This is where the money will come from that is discussed in the WZEP blast. Funds are to be apportioned in 120 days, project must be completed in 3 years. If after 120 days, funds are not apportioned, states will lose the money and it will go to another state that have expended their funds, "use it or lose it." Another sweep will occur at a year to ensure projects are progressing.

Although these are substantial amounts, I just don't see that stimulus funding will be the vehicle for this project. Whether or not the types of funding programs that have been discussed could be married to make up the shortfall, I think would be a long shot due to the time frames for expenditure. I hope this helps on why I don't think the bridge is viable for stimulus.

That being said there is also the Surface Transportation Bill that comes along every five years or so and it is up this year. Long story short is that these funds are also in addition to the typical appropriation process and funding is made available for projects that may not be on the top of the state DOT's list.

appalach

Your post definitely helped! You don't seem like a Debbie Downer to me. I appreciate a realist. I had no idea how the cash was being handled, and your and SJ's posts highlighted the potential disconnect with one group's priority list being reconciled with stringent timelines made all the more urgent by the use or lose it ax waiting to fall.

SWGB

A toll bridge is not the way to go. If you figure $2.50 (I think this is what mid-bay bridge is) in each direction is a real hit in the wallet for someone traveling for work from North of the bay. That's $25.00 per week. A toll bridge also seems unfair for the fact that they would most likely collect it on the existing bridge as well and that seems pretty backwards to me.

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ShallowsNole

SunPass definitely helps on tolls, if the powers that be knock $1.00 off each way as they do for the Mid-Bay Bridge. I say if, because I have noticed that my tolls on the Turnpike and in/around Orlando are not any less.

Still, that is $3.00 per day, pre-paid. Plus I think I had to buy the box.

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SWGB

Very true and consider that if you are traveling down here for $10.00/hr. That's over 3 hours of work just for the privilege.

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ShallowsNole

Whoa on the math, darlin'. $10.00 per hour (if lucky, pre-tax), not $10.00 a day. So it would be only 3.75%.

Only. Wow. I can't believe I typed that.

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SWGB

Sorry about that, coffee is slowly kicking in today. Either way it's a pain in the ass centered around the wallet.

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scooterbug44

I thought there was a rule that they weren't allowed to make both the 331 and the Mid-bay toll. Wasn't that why they suspended tolls on Mid-bay after a hurricane?

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"I hate to break it to you, but this year (and probably the next few) was going to suck even if Jesus himself was president. These problems were not created overnight and they aren't going away overnight." -Jdarg

BeachSiO2

They do typically suspend tolls during mandatory evacuations (health and safety), but I am not aware of any rule stating that they couldn't make 331 a toll road. If my memory is correct, they had a group come in and explain how it could likely be built sooner if it was made a toll road.

SWGB

Sponsored by the Mid bay bridge authority?

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BeachSiO2

I can't remember. It was a while ago and done by a private group that has built toll roads throughout the state and maybe other states. The issue that raised most people's ire was that the tolls would be collected even after the bridge had been paid for since these were considered investments. I know the FDOT was at the meeting and it was open to the public.

scooterbug44

I thought I remember it being suspended after a storm too - I was in town, which means everyone was back from any evacuation as I really err on the side of caution w/ storms.

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"I hate to break it to you, but this year (and probably the next few) was going to suck even if Jesus himself was president. These problems were not created overnight and they aren't going away overnight." -Jdarg

beachmouse

They also suspend tolls on the MBB if US 98 across Okaloosa Island is totally closed and looks to be so for a longer period of time. When Ike put that part of 98 under water last summer, we got two days of suspended tolls from it.

scooterbug44

That's what I was thinking of!

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"I hate to break it to you, but this year (and probably the next few) was going to suck even if Jesus himself was president. These problems were not created overnight and they aren't going away overnight." -Jdarg

AAbsolute

I wonder if they'll have any trouble with the Unexploded Ordinance that is in the bay mud adjacent to the 331 bridge. The military has already located several including 1 that looks to be a 1,500 bomb. That's the MUDS and UXO study.

DuneLaker

Hope someone lets us know when they plan on moving that unexploded ordinance. I may make a timed trial run up already four-laned 79 across already four-laned West Bay Bridge next time I head up to NoWal from SoWal. I'll have to decide whether I want to cut back all the way on 20 to new 331 bypass in Freeport or take 81 and other scenic backroads in to town. Any plans for a toll on that bridge? Until the new Panama City - Bay County airport opens near West Bay, traffic should be easy. Miles may be more, but time may be better with construction delays. I've been wanting to make that trip again anyway.

SWGB

No, Bay County got their bridge paid for by the state. No tolls there. IIRC they got a demycrat to push it through.

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ShallowsNole

I am going to use my new favorite internet acronym on you...

RUFKM???

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beachmouse

If you ever get ahold of the navigational charts for Choctaw Bay, there's a good chunk of area designated as 'here be the dragons and old (and hopefully) inert munitions'

No big deal if you're boating over that area, but when you start talking about digging down for bridge supports, it's a whole other ballgame.

singinchicken

Typically, tolls are instituted as a way of paying back construction bonds without burdening the taxpayers with the cost. After the bonds are repaid, the powers that be wind up with a revenue generator that can be used for bridge repairs and other necessities.

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SWGB

Well good luck to any businesses in Freeport, doubt people will drive up to Freeport if there is suddenly a toll involved.

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AAbsolute

Teach me.... What's it stand for? You can PM me anytime

Here4Good

What does everyone this about the private company which is proposing to widen 331, including the bridge?

Firm offers to help widen U.S. 331 (with LETTER) | authority, corridor, proposal - News - Northwest Florida Daily News

The managing partner who wrote the letter is Denver Stutler, who had a good reputation as Transportation Secretary under Jeb Bush.

It would certainly mean that 331 would end up being a toll bridge (and I am not sure how that would work, since it is a US Highway), but it would probably get done a whole lot faster.

Note that the NWF says that Stutler was " former district secretary for the Florida Department of Transportation"; that is not true, he was the Secretary of FDOT, not just a district secretary.

kurt

This is what I have been expecting.

klauricella

Having to pay a toll everyday to go to work will be pretty lousy.

DuneLaker

Here's a situation where we need to know who is in this LLC. I don't want to go searching and neither does most of the general public. Sure it is online somewhere in the state records, but we need a list of who is involved in this huge proposal. Who is in this deal? Easy, public disclosure is required. There are lots of reasons to question this deal. Is anyone with past ethics charges and fines involved? Any elected officials with home foreclosures looking to cover their losses? A lot of people with good "reputations" were ruined with recent financial fiascos. We can't ask enough tough questions. When the money was rolling in, many looked the other way. That party is over.

AAbsolute

The private sector could do this whole project from conception to fruition far better than the Government could handle it.

12 years ago I tried to take a public concern private. At the end of the day the government decided that to many public sector employees would lose their jobs. That was the point...

Let's look at this bridge proposal from a taxpayer cost and try not to worry about how much money the proposer may earn. People are far to concerned with how much the other side might profit. Their potential gain has nothing to do with the equation.

Here4Good

Well, I hope you weren't expecting the NWF Daily News to ask questions like that.

eagle11rb

All of you sound like the same people 15 years ago saying the Mid Bay Bridge was a bridge to nowhere and a waste of money.....well as they say..."build it and they will come" and they did. Much of the growth of east Destin and South Walton was because of the Mid Bay Bridge. Yes people dont like paying tolls (the tourists dont care) to go to work, but my wife was spending 3 times the amount in gas going from Niceville around FWB to Sandestin to work. The same thing applies to the 331 Bridge. ITS NEEDED! ITS NEEDED NOW! A TOLL BRIDGE WILL BE BUILT FASTER THAN A A BRIDGE BUILT BY THE STATE (which would probaby be another 20 years) and by the way no one goes UP to Freeport to shop. I will pay a toll to go UP to Freeport and beyond instead of driving west to MidBay or east to WestBay (79). A toll of $1.50 (SUNPASS) is cheaper than paying for the gas to either of those 2 bridges. SO BUILD IT NOW, BUILD IT AS A TOLL BRIDGE, AND IF YOU BUILD IT THEY WILL COME !

AAbsolute

SoWal.com is the best source for local news, by far. I don't read the NWF Daily news.

seanote

For those who commute to and from Freeport, there will be no gas savings. The commute length will be the same, it will just cost them more to travel the same route that they've been taking. I agree the bridge needs to be four-laned, I never understood the idea of four-laning 331 and not the bridge, but to state that the circumstances surrounding the building of the mid-bay bridge and the four-laning of the 331 bridge are the same is inaccurate.

SWGB

Unfortunately an LLC on sunbiz.org only list the officers and registered agent of the LLC. There can still be any number of owners behind an LLC.

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AAbsolute

I thought there were ownership/membership doc's on there too. Thanks for the schooling.

kurt

Added to SoWal.com home page.

SWGB

No, you only get to see those if someone faxes it to the wrong number. A local rental company did this once.

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DuneLaker

M.C. Davis questioned the 331 Move Forward group at last night's (2-25-09)BCC meeting in Northwest Florida Daily News story on Page 1. Quote, "It's an ambush, in my opinion," Davis said. Story continued on page A7 said, "Odom also reacted somewhat angrily to suggestions ..." "That is total, absolute bull," he said. Walton BCC voted for more time to study.

wildlifelover

This was to be published in DeFuniak Springs Herald today:

A Private Toll Road Won't Help Public

By Linda Young
Director
Clean Water Network of Florida

News that a private company wants to “help” Walton County by widening U.S. 331 and the Choctawhatchee Bay Bridge should give citizens pause.

This private company wants to turn U.S. 331 into a widened private toll road. That means motorists would be at the mercy of largely unregulated price increases to use a road and bay bridge they now drive on for free.

The proposal comes from a company founded by Denver Stutler, who served as Gov. Jeb Bush’s chief of staff and then as Bush’s Department of Transportation secretary. Stutler’s company approached the Northwest Florida Transportation Corridor Authority Feb. 17 with an “unsolicited proposal” to “design, build, operate, and finance transportation facilities which will provide additional capacity for U.S. 331 in Walton County.”

It is curious how this proposal just popped up out of nowhere. Developer Jay Odom, whose 3,000-acre Hammock Bay development in Freeport would benefit from a pricey new road, was quoted in the Northwest Daily News as saying “In my book, this is a stimulus package. It’s a half-billion-dollar stimulus that’s not reliant on federal dollars.”

Really? A quick look at Florida DOT documents shows that Highway 331 is already teed up for federal stimulus dollars. On the DOT’s official “Ready-To-Go” list of state projects eligible for federal stimulus money, there’s more than $336 million worth of improvements to Highway 331 and the Choctawhatchee Bay bridge, right there, listed plain as day. Walton County is listed as an officially designated economically distressed area which gives it higher priority for funding.

Citizens should be asking whether this private company intends to draw down public money for private gain. It is doubtful that these corporate folks are doing this expensive road work to be altruistic to the good folks of WaltonCounty. And what will the citizens end up paying in the long run?

Odom is The Northwest Florida Transportation Corridor Authority’s vice chairman. This appointed group, established by Jeb Bush, has spent four years drawing routes for fat new toll roads through our region. So far, this group – which is independent of the state DOT and has the power to tax, seize private land through eminent domain, and set up toll authorities – has spent $4 million worth of public money and has not had annual audits as required by law.

In fact, the NFTCA is the only transportation authority in the state that has not had its required audits. Right now, the DOT’s Inspector General is working up balance sheets for the authority, but this does not constitute formal auditing – outside audits are specifically required.

Most all of the money spent so far has gone to the private HDR Engineering, which is doing planning for the road and collecting a profit in the meantime. Invoices show that about $3.9 million has gone to pay hefty engineering fees to do master planning for the new roads. Still, when pressed by the public, the NFTCA insists that people shouldn’t get attached to the lines on the map that this $4 million worth of public money paid for. These lines drawn through our communities, they tell us, are still just “concepts.” After four years and $4 million, we’ve still only got concepts?

Now, all of a sudden, a private company waltzes in with this very suspicious-looking proposal to “help” Walton County. Tom McLaughlin of the Northwest Daily News reported on Feb. 20:

“The authority, never having received an unsolicited proposal, had to set a fee to submit such documents. It settled on a tentative charge of $50,000. That money will be used to advertise the proposal and to notify other potential bidders of its existence. Once advertisements are published, other firms that might be interested in competing for the project have 60 days to provide proposals.”

Sixty days for other companies to come up with a competing proposal for a road project this large and complex? None of this sounds right.

It’s worth noting that about $105,800 of the $4 million that the transportation authority spent so far went to HDR Engineering to pay for “public outreach” between May and November of 2007. That’s $17,633 per month.

I wish some of that “public outreach” money would go toward letting the citizens really know what’s going on here.

Clean Water Network of Florida is a network of 300 organizations working together to protect Florida’s streams, rivers, lakes and estuaries.

wildlifelover

Us Hwy 331 is on the FDOT's "Ready to Go" list.

NotDeadYet

And then there is this Sansom's friend pushes for toll road through nature preserve - St. Petersburg Times

Sansom friend pushes toll road

By Craig Pittman, Times staff writer

Published Wednesday, February 25, 2009
A developer closely linked to former House Speaker Ray Sansom is pushing for a new toll road to slice through a nature preserve that taxpayers spent $16.5 million to save from development.
"They couldn't have picked a worse place to put this road," said Matt Aresco, the biologist who manages the preserve.
The eight-member board in charge of building the toll road was created by the Legislature in 2005 through a bill sponsored by Sansom, R-Destin. Sansom's brief tenure as House speaker this year has led to a grand jury investigation.
The toll road board's vice chairman is Jay Odom, the developer whose ties to Sansom are among the subjects now being investigated by the grand jury.
The work of the Northwest Florida Transportation Corridor Authority was close to Sansom's heart. When Gov. Charlie Crist vetoed giving the authority $3 million in 2007, Sansom told the Northwest Florida Daily News that he regarded that as "about the most important $3 million in the state budget."
Odom, who built a subdivision that would benefit from the proposed toll road, did not respond to requests for comment for this article.
Board chairman Randall McElhenny said he can understand why Aresco and others might be worried about seeing an authority map that shows a road being built through the middle of the nature preserve.
But those concerns are premature, he said, because at this point the routes are only conceptual.
"They're lines on a map," he said. "Those lines don't really mean anything except as a concept."
The preserve is older than Odom's road board. In 2002, real estate investor M.C. Davis bought 48,000 acres of farm and timberland east of Eglin Air Force Base called Nokuse (pronounced "Nuh-GO-zee," an Indian word for bear) Plantation. He hired Aresco to guide its restoration — filling in ditches that had drained wetlands, replanting longleaf pines, conducting controlled burns.
Three years later, Davis sold to the state the development rights on 18,000 acres of Nokuse Plantation, granting the state something known as a "conservation easement" that can never be developed. Cost to the taxpayers: $16.5 million.
Now that the taxpayers have paid to preserve it, Odom's board wants to bisect it with a major four-lane highway, Aresco said.
As set up by Sansom, the toll road board has the power to select routes for a whole series of roads and bridges across the Panhandle, condemn any property needed for construction and then borrow money to pay for the work, to be paid off using tolls.
The board is supposed to pick routes that improve travel times through the Panhandle's coastal areas, enhance hurricane evacuation and "promote economic development along the corridor," according to the authority's attorney.
Critics say "economic development" is the real reason for most of the roads being planned. The road that would cut through Nokuse would also funnel traffic to a subdivision called Hammock Bay that Odom has built outside the town of Freeport.
"I don't know how he can vote on this when he has a development in close proximity that would benefit from it," Aresco said.
The toll road system being planned by Odom's board would also benefit the state's biggest developer, the St. Joe Co. It would provide direct access to a new $330 million airport being built 20 miles north of Panama City on land St. Joe has donated.
St. Joe officials hope the new taxpayer-financed airport will spur the development of the company's thousands of acres surrounding the airport, the first to be built since Sept. 11 sent the airline industry into a tailspin from which it has yet to recover.
"We see this whole road system as a real boondoggle," Aresco said. "We've been calling it the road to nowhere that goes to the airport to nowhere."
Most of the existing highways that the new toll roads are supposed to supplement, such as State Road 20, are far from clogged, the biologist said. So the highway through the preserve "doesn't make any sense economically."
Craig Pittman can be reached at craig@sptimes.com.

Lynnie

Looks like I'll be taking Hwy 79 instead of Hwy 81 if we get a toll bridge.......geez!!!!

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Who is Lynnie?? ~~~~~~~Signed, All Y'all

SWGB

Didn't Jay Odom have some campaign issues with a member of the current BCC?

Also something to think about, what if this private entity starts the bridge and then goes belly up prior to completion?

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